Highlights????

[indybones]

Hi peeps...

Now I've got a bit of a techie challenge here.

I have posted two pics below the first is the long shot and the second is a zoomed in part of the same shot, this second shot highlights the challenge I am trying to solve.

I have noticed with HVX-200 (and it's probably a digital thing) but there seems to be no latency (I think thats the right word to use here) in the areas of highlights.
As you can see in the second pic around the highlights it goes from a darkish shade of blue, to a cyan, then to a white, so within a largish sphere of tone and color, this is represented by three. There is no subtle gradation between them, and this causes a blocky edge between them.

Is there a way of being able to smooth this blockyness and lack of gradation out??
I have noticed that this doesn't seem to happen on film, and it could quite possibly be the inherent characteristics of digital?? Also this footage was captured on DV tape on the HVX-200, so these could all be part of the problem, however I was wondering if in post there maybe something I could do to sort this out???

PIC-1

http://i36.tinypic.com/2lkv90m.jpg

PIC-2

http://i34.tinypic.com/2zf0qbm.jpg

Thanks for your help

Indy

[Andy Olson]

It looks like you just have peaking white highlights and there is no information there to tweak especially since you are in the 4:1:1 colorspace of DV. This definitely is a video characteristic that film wouldn't have.

You could try bringing down the whites to see if it will smooth it out. Also, another thing would be maybe to transcode to DVCPRO HD or 8bit 4:2:2 so you have a better codec to color correct with. This also could smooth out some of the blockiness. Also, maybe a blurring effect just on those areas could help smooth out the jaggies.

Shooting with the cinegamma mode in 720p to P2 card on the HVX would help to give you more to work with next time.

Best,
Andy

[j1clark@ucsd.edu]

Is there a way of being able to smooth this blockyness and lack of gradation out??
I have noticed that this doesn't seem to happen on film, and it could quite possibly be the inherent characteristics of digital?? Also this footage was captured on DV tape on the HVX-200, so these could all be part of the problem, however I was wondering if in post there maybe something I could do to sort this out???

PIC-1

http://i36.tinypic.com/2lkv90m.jpg

PIC-2

http://i34.tinypic.com/2zf0qbm.jpg

Thanks for your help

Indy

The digitization/compression process looses resolution... hence, you are probably stuck with essentially a saturated white area. There is one trick you may try. duplicate the layer and set the top layer to 'multiply', if there is 'smooth' area in the blown out white, then you may be able to get a little bit of adjustment... but then the dark area may be too dark. If this is a moving shot, then you'd have to mask off areas so the effect is only in the highlights... and the mask moves as the shot does...

As it is, it looks like you stuck with what you shot. Once the CCD 'analog' has been digitized, there is quantizing errors, that will produce 'banding', or the like. Then there's the compression method that further reduces the data...

If you are familiar with 'film', then think 'slide' or 'revresal' film for any current 'affordable' digitial camera, whether for stills or moving pictures... Things are improving, but still one does not have the latitude of negative film...

That is in 'slide' or 'reversal' film one exposes for the Highlights, and eithr accepts the shadows, or lights the shadows to cut the contrast... in negative film, the nostrum was shoot for the shadows and develop for the highlights... which doesn't work for either reversal film, or digital film...

[NoahK]

Yeah those are totally gone- sorry. This is why you want to use your in-camera zebras to watch out for overexposure or grab a production monitor with a waveform and vectorscope. Of course that's no help to you with these shots. There is a plugin from Lyric you can try that works to recover some lost highlights- might work and it's free:

http://www.lyric.com/fcp-plugins/index.htm#shadow

Noah

[indybones]

Thanks guys for your much appreciated help...:thumbup::dankk2:

Yup I've tried the lyric plugin and doesn't really help that much...

I have also tried diffusion, bloom and blur and the multiply trick that j1clark has mentioned, the diffusion and bloom just made the shot look like an 80s romantic period drama, which definitely doesn't suit the film.

Andy Olson you mention transoding to DVCPRO HD or 8bit 4:2:2.
How would I go about that?
Also you mention bluring just on those areas, are we talking of overlaying onto another track, then 4 point garbage mattes, then blur those mattes?? Or is there another way ?

I think that the thing that niggles me more than the loss of information in the highlights is the subtle gradation or the lack of in this case. I often utilize a high contrast, crushing the blacks and blowing the highlights, which suits a certain kind of aesthetic. But the staggered lack of gradation just looks a bit crap really.

Thanks once again guys

Indy

[indybones]

Hi guys...
well with an immense amount of pissing around with various different things I have managed to get rid of the crappy gradation at least, well at least on the left hand side...

PIC-1
http://i34.tinypic.com/v4w6cw.jpg

PIC-2
http://i35.tinypic.com/34znnes.jpg

It's a bit better, at least it isn't as blocky, was a mixture of diffusion, (with a darken), noise reduction, attending to the brightness and contrast in only the highlights, bringing up the mids a bit, compensating for the lack of bite from the pull down of the highlights etc etc goes on...lol...

Cheers

Indy