Work flow for web distribution and public access TV

[Jerryki]

I have the Panasonic 150 and would like to ask a question regarding format.

Our objective is primarily to shoot video for the web and public access TV. Many of our programs are shot at government meetings which can last a number of hours.

We purchased the 150 because it would enable us to shoot on digital media rather than dv tape. We also knew about the transcoding time issues in fcp but were willing to wait until native avchd editing was supported.

However, given our objective, what is the best workflow. What format should we shoot in? Is 1080/601 the way to go or 720/30 or 60? Should we play around with any of the other formats such as to ha, hg he?

We will export to web, you tube and public access tv.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much.

Jerry

[averan]

i'd go with no greater than 720/30p and one of the lower quality settings, maybe 17mbps or lower. that'll give you more recording time.

i'd shoot at a quality that's a little more than what you plan to distribute to, but not so much that you're wasting hdd space, processing time and etc in post. that still gives you a little headroom to edit.

[Bassman2003]

I would buy the 32gb cards and shoot in the highest quality mode.

Is three hours enough time for the meeting? Do you have a spot where you can change cards?

The AVCHD format is massively compressed. Not shooting in the highest mode just adds to the compression.

And I agree, a 720p mode is the best.

[shrigg]

Unless you are wanting to shoot 24p or some such, I'd just use the HE 6mpbs mode for meetings. I shot a 3 day conference a few weeks ago and HE mode was perfect for this. It is 1440x1080 60i, same resolution as HDV but better looking to my eye. The HMC's low light ability was key for the event I shot. Fitting 6 hours on one 16Gb card was nice too :thumbup:

For web, youtube aand public access TV I don't think the higher quality modes are needed, especially for simple meetings with primarily talking heads. My HE footage looks great!

[Bassman2003]

Good points!

[mcsmooth]

i'd go with no greater than 720/30p and one of the lower quality settings, maybe 17mbps or lower. that'll give you more recording time.
Most people will agree that 720 is the best res to record at if you want progressive, but keep in mind there is no option to record at lower bitrates in 720. You have to go 1080i to use those.

If you need continuous shooting without switching media your options are 3 hours with 32GB (1.5 with 16 and so on), or shooting 1080i with a lower bitrate and get up to 12 hours. Broadcast is always 1080i60 or 720p60, but any of the recording modes can easily convert to those, so choose what you like best.

I also agree the 6Mbps mode is pretty good when the camera is on a tripod and there isn't much motion. I wish 720 was an option there, but it is still a great feature.

[JonathanS]

The other potential problem with 720p is compatibility with your edit system. Without wanting to rehash discussion in other threads: check the workflow before using it in anger! (720p25 still glitches on import to Final Cut Pro, specifically. I'm not sure about 720p30, and there are work-arounds, but for this reason alone I'm shooting 1080p25 right now.)

[Kit_L]

The other potential problem with 720p is compatibility with your edit system. Without wanting to rehash discussion in other threads: check the workflow before using it in anger! (720p25 still glitches on import to Final Cut Pro, specifically. I'm not sure about 720p30, and there are work-arounds, but for this reason alone I'm shooting 1080p25 right now.)

Jonathon,

I am considering a similar workflow and these cameras here are 720p/25fps (PAL-land).

I plan on using FCP Studio 2---can you point me to the workarounds or to the discussions? TIA, KL

[PerroneFord]

While I don't have a 150, I wanted to jump in here. I started shooting govt meetings on my original DVX the year it came out. At first, I was swapping tapes like a madman, then got a firestore. Now it's either the firestore (soon to be retired) or SDHC cards. The 150 was a serious contender for me but the single card slot really took the luster off the deal.

When I shoot these meeting (mostly for web or DVD distribution) I nearly always shoot at HDV type levels. I prefer to shoot progressive, but HDV doesn't support that, so I shoot 60i and de-interlace after ingesting the footage. If you've got the room, cut two masters. An SD 60i one for going out to TV, and a 720p one for going to the web or out to newer TVs. You can always downsize that 720p file for computer use (360x200 or 720x406).

Shooting 24p has some advantages as well. Generally smaller files, and it'sa lot easier to stream than 30p. It also offers a bit more light gathering since the corrosponding shutter is open longer. If you are anything like me, the BIGGEST challenge will be getting reasonable audio, and the video is rather mundane.

Here is my typical long form workflow:

1. Dump all footage to timeline.
2. Create 60i SD master
3. Create 720p master
4. Edit, correct, grade, etc. on SD file.
5. Render finished SD file
6. Do a media replace to apply EDL and color to 720p file
7. Render final 720p version
8. Copy finished work to offline media. (I use BluRay now but formerly DVD+DL)

Deliver products.

[JonathanS]

Jonathon,

I am considering a similar workflow and these cameras here are 720p/25fps (PAL-land).

I plan on using FCP Studio 2---can you point me to the workarounds or to the discussions? TIA, KL

The simplest workaround is, most likely, to wait for the next FCP release - this is, one hopes, a pretty basic bug that will be fixed in due course.

For now, I'm shooting 1080p25. For all the talk about 720p being the camera's 'sweet spot,' the 1080 picture is still lovely. My only issue is that the resulting ProRes media is rather larger than the 720p equivalent, and render times are commensurately longer on my poor little MacBook Pro. But it's quite workable.

If you really must shoot 720p, 720p50 worked without issue in my basic testing. Or, shoot 720p25 and convert the footage to ProRes with Toast, which I believe solves the glitching problems (though I can't confirm that personally).

The only real complaints I have so far are:


High-capacity battery availability in the UK. I have backorders in, and the last date I was given by Panasonic UK has been and gone. Disastrous, frankly.
The flip-out LCD feels a little flimsy, and its vertical viewing angle is poor; the waveform monitor is your friend for judging exposure.
Judging focus in run-and-gun situations is quite hard. The red-outline peaking feature of Sony's Z1 is sorely missed; the focus histogram is good, but hard to use on the fly.
Transcode of 1080p25 to ProRes, on my MacBook Pro, is a slightly-longer-than-real-time operation. So there's no real benefit over using tape unless you log properly and ingest only the useful bits. Which is generally good practice anyway, but on occasion I want a whole hour-long run, and it's frustrating to have a workflow that's slower than HDV in that circumstance. Come the day of a Mac Pro on my desk and native AVCHD editing, however, all will be well again.

The only thing on this list that really bugs me is the battery situation. Which should probably have been a deal-breaker for me, but I'm in denial.

[Kit_L]

For now, I'm shooting 1080p25. For all the talk about 720p being the camera's 'sweet spot,' the 1080 picture is still lovely.

I want 720p50 for my particular work; I have downloaded the Panny "decoder" (transcodes to DVCPRD-HD, as I understand it) so that FCP can see it natively. I will report back once I have the camera as to how long this takes. Merry Xmas eveyone

kl