DVCPRO 50 variations???

[indybones]

Hi peeps

bit of a noobie question here but I was wondering if some one could enlighten me on the different DVCPRO50 variations on my HVX-200.

Basically i've got
1080i / 50 i ........is that 1080i as in resolution, and 50i = its interlaced footage?
1080i / 25 p ..... is that 1080i as in resolution, and 25p = (progressive)?
720p / 50 p
720p / 25 p
720 p / 25 PN
576 i / 50 i
576 i / 25 p

Basically i=interlaced footage and p= progressive footage, but the 720 and 576 etc I get a bit lost on.

I've also read on here that there isn't a great deal of point in recording on the DVCPRO format than there would be in recoding to a miniDV tape, is that correct?

Many thanks for your time and help

Indy

[manglerBMX]

DVCPRO 50 is an SD codec. DVCPRO 100 is your HD codec. mini dv is about 25 mb/s, where as DVCPRO 50 is 50 mb/s. so its SD but more information.

[indybones]

thanks for the reply mangler....

so basically
all of the 576 i (interlaced) and 576 p (progressive)
and the 720's are Standard Def codecs

could you say that DVCPRO is the equivalent of say Sony DVCAM (and that's the 576)
DVCPRO 50 is the equivalent of Digibeta and thats the (720)?

but both are still SD codecs.

where as DVCPRO HD (the 1080 i and 1080 p) is the HD codec?

I still get a bit lost with the 3 differing
720p / 50 p
720p / 25 p
720 p / 25 PN

Thank you for your help and time

Indy

[Joe Lawry]

Indy,

720 is HD. Not SD. It uses the same codec as 1080 - DVCPROHD aka DV100. It frame size is 1280x720 as opposed to SD 720x576.

If you want a Digibeta equivalent shoot 576 (i or p, whatever floats your boat) using the DVCPRO50 codec which you can select under recording options.

You can only select your recording codec when recording standard definition. 720 and 1080 are always DVCPROHD.

and Yes, DVCPRO is the equivalent of DVCAM - however in the PAL world it uses 4:1:1 chroma sampling as opposed to the normal 4:2:0 we normally use.

DVCPRO50 is very close to digibeta.. slightly more compressed.. 50mbps compared to 70 or 80? of digibeta. However they both use 4:2:2 chroma sampling so the colours are very nice.

Hope this helps.

[indybones]

Great thanks for your reply Joe.

I think I've pretty much got my head around it now.

DVCPRO HD 1080 and 720 are both HD.
Both have frame sizes of 1280x720 as opposed to SD 720x576?
If that's the case what's the major difference between selecting 1080 or 720 if they are both HD and both have the same frame size?


576 is SD which is kind of close to digi beta if I select the DVC PRO 50 codec and it's frame size is 720x576?

and DVC PRO is the equivalent of say Sony's DVCAM which is SD frame size 720x576?

Sorry to ask for your help again, and sorry if I haven't quite got it yet, just making sure I've fully understand it.

Thanks again for your help :thumbup:

Indy

[TimurCivan]

1080i is 1920x1080 interlaced so youre only seeing 1920x540 at any given moment.

1080P is 1920x1080 progressive and you get the full image every frame.


720p is 1280 x 720 regardless of framerate.

720p is an amazing format when shooting for the live look. 720p 60fps , aka the video look, is sharp clear and gorgeous.

1080i @ 60 interlaced frames suffers from image tearing like all interlace video does.

[indybones]

Great thanks for your help and time guys...I think I've got my head around it all now.....:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Just looking at my 8 Gig card and it appears that I can get 8 minutes if I choose DVCPRO HD 1080i and 8 minutes if I choose 720i as both are HD, is the only difference going to be the frame size?

1080i frame size 1920x1080

720i frame size 1280 x 720

thanks and sorry to ask so many questions

Indy

[Barry_Green]

The difference is frame rate; the 1080 mode is recorded using interlaced recording, the 720 mode is always progressive, at twice the frame rate.

So you get 60 half-frames of 1080, or 60 full frames of 720.

And while the uncompressed frame size is 1920x1080 or 1280x720, the actual compressed/recorded size is prefiltered to a smaller size. 1080 gets recorded as 1440x1080 (PAL) or 1280x1080 (NTSC) and 720p gets recorded as 960x720.

[indybones]

Thanks Barry...wow...Bare with me I'm so sorry thanks for your help, just trying to fully understand it all.

Ok when I'm looking at the recording format screen it says

1080 i / 50 i
1080 i 25 p

Both of these will be recorded as an interlaced footage? Even the 25p? P=progressive?
Or does the '25p'= frame rate

then when I look at the 720 it says

720p / 50 p that will be recoded as progressive footage at 50 P (frame rate per second)?
720p / 25 p that will be recoded as progressive footage at 25 P (frame rate per second)?
720 p / 25PN that will be recoded as progessive footage at 25 P but what does the N stand for?

Thank you so much

Indy

[Barry_Green]

Yes, that's all basically true, with the understanding that your 1080/25p is progressive footage. It's stored in an "interlaced basket" for purposes of recording, but the footage is actually progressive.

[timbook2]

1080 i / 50 i
1080 i 25 p

Both of these will be recorded as an interlaced footage? Even the 25p? P=progressive?
Or does the '25p'= frame rate


50 i is interlaced
25 p is progressive

AFAIK 720p/ 25 pN stands for Progressive NATIVE mode in comparison to 25 p. From what I understand this is relevant in later editing: PN= you cant change the frame rate afterwards in a NLE system while in 25p you can.

please correct me if I am wrong!!!

[Joe Lawry]

720 is an interesting beast. As a broadcasting format, a lot of networks, when working with 720 choose to broadcast in 720 50/60p due to the smooth motion. When panasonic designed the HVX they gave us a few different recording modes when it came to 720p.

720p 50 - 50 fps, smooth, clean, identical to what the networks broadcast (frame rate wise anyway)

720 25p - Your film look frame rate - 25 fps inside 50fps - so still within the broadcast spec (i think?)

720 25pn - Progressive NATIVE is what it stands for. What it gives you is 25fps straight. Not inside 50fps like the previous recording mode. Visually they are identical, however pN allows you to have double the record time than the normal 25p because its not recording duplicate frames.

So on a 16gig card you get 34.5 minutes at 720 25pn

(i only say 34.5 mins as with 2 16 gig cards in the camera you get 69 mins at 25pn)

[indybones]

Great thanks again for your help, I cannot thank you guys enough for all your advice.

The kind of stuff I'm doing at the moment is promotional videos on SD at the mo, although will get into doing them on HD next time, it's just the limitations of only having one 8Gig card so I have to plan alot in advance.
I am also doing art video installations, all of which IMPORTANTLY I want to have a very cinematic feel to it.

So I have always shot in 25p in SD, it sounds as though I could shoot 25p SD in 567i (DVCPro 50) which would give me an equivalent to digi beta, and approx 16 mins on my card.

Or

Go 720i (HD DVCPRO) but only get 8 minutes before I have to dump the footage.

But I could choose to shoot on 720 i 25PN which would allow me to get double the time which would be 32 mins....
If this is the case then are there any limitations to shooting in 720i PM over shooting 720 P?

Thank you

Indy

[Joe Lawry]

Ah, i dont know where you got 720i from.. but it doesnt exist.

720 is ALWAYS progressive.

If you shoot 720 25pN you'll get 16mins on an 8 gig card, not 32 unfortunately.

Shooting with 1 card is a tricky one.. might be easier to shoot tape if you only need SD.

[indybones]

Thanks again for your help....:thumbup::thumbup::dankk2:

Yeah my bad with the 720 i as you say it's progressive.

Well at least it looks as though I can start an HD project on 720PN with a record time of 16 mins before having to dump, which is better than 8 mins at least, and then just save some cash for another card and continue to shoot SD on either DV tape or use the 576 and get 16 mins on the DVCPRO50 (equivalent to say Digi beta) or 576 DVC PRO (equivalent to sony's DVCAM).....

Thank you

Indy

[BXL]

or save a little bit more and get yourself a Firestore...

[timbook2]

I would be really curious to know if 720 25pN is still broadcast able !!! would make my next shoot a lot easier ( regarding the amount of data)

[indybones]

or save a little bit more and get yourself a Firestore...

Yeah I had thought about that but I had heard bad things about them ie, that the cord that links it to the camera can easily come out and you then loose your footage, and that the time that it takes to dump the footage is a lot longer than P2 cards...but I don't know just something someone told me???? If any one knows would be good to hear....

Thanks

Indy

[BXL]

several threads on good and evil stuff regarding the firestore... I guess it all depends on what kind of work you're doing.... to me the large storage/recording time you get is what counts... but then again, it depends on your kind of work I guess...

[indybones]

Cheers BXL

so you would deffo recommend the firestore then? Any make model?

What kind of stuff do you do at the moment?

At the moment I'm doing promotional videos and art house/films installations.
I have shot SD but am using the HVX-200 so want to start getting into and using HD.

Cheers
Indy

[timbook2]

FS 100 ....try to get the right angle FW cable so it doesnt stick out as much

[indybones]

Cheers Tim :dankk2::thumbup:

[David Jimerson]

I would be really curious to know if 720 25pN is still broadcast able !!! would make my next shoot a lot easier ( regarding the amount of data)

It is as much as any other format. You may have to deliver it at something else (50p, perhaps), but there's no reason why you can't shoot that way.