The Unofficial "Suggestions to make DVXuser fests bigger and better" thread.

[Ben Sliker]

Ok, We all love our DVXuser fests, and I think the mods have done a good job of gradually growing the fests in popularity. Here's a chance to sound off on what you think would be a good idea to make them bigger, better, more prestigious, etc. But let me say right now ... THIS IS NOT A PLACE TO DISCUSS THE VOTING SYSTEM. ALL POSTS ABOUT THE VOTING SYSTEM WILL (HOPEFULLY) BE DELETED BY A MODERATOR.


Here's a few thoughts I've gathered -

1. Outside promotion - I feel the DVXuser fests still live in kind of a "bubble" on the internet, i think outside promotion by the individual filmmakers is needed to make this thing blow up.

2. Annual Physical Screening, a "Best of" show - Take the top 3 films from the past 3-4 fests and have a big screening in LA like we did for timefest. PLAN/SCHEDULE FAR AHEAD - so that people not close to LA have a better chance of making it. Also, vote/choose one of those films to receive 1 big prize that's not related to specific fest - DVXuser's Best Film of 2008. Also make sure to have this fest registered or whatever so participating filmmakers can get on IMDB and the like.

3. Faster/More Efficient way of viewing the films and in higher resolution. I'm talking streaming here probably. Or even use the embed video tool. Have your film embedded in your thread for people to watch and then they can immediately comment. (If quality is an issue here, also offer the connoisseurs a high quality download version) Also easier for an outsider to come in and participate if they don't have to download 50+ films at 50 MB a piece. I think this is a huge bottleneck to the advancement of the fests.


Let me know what you think!

[J.R. Hudson]

I agree with all of these points.

Especially a way of FASTER STREAMING VIEWING. Something like Vimeo for example; full screen, wonderful resolution and instantly viewable. Forget about Downloading. That is archaic and time consuming.

I also think Outside Promotion would help not only the filmmakers, but the site itself. I still don't think previewing the films is a good thing, but maybe being allowed to have a :30 TRAILER and then pointing it too DVXUSER

These could be on the filmmakers MySpace and Facebook pages for example.

VIMEO has the capability of having Channels Password protected by the way.

[gabrielflorit]

I don't think allowing trailers is a good idea - it will only encourage inexperienced filmmakers to waste their time on trailers instead of focusing on the final short. Plus, if thread pimping is a debated issue, imagine what trailers would do!

I do think streaming would improve the fest. Vimeo is definitely a great example. But downloading is still an acceptable method, in my opinion. I do have one complaint: currently we have an option of downloading individual files or downloading a zip with several of them - with a warning that some of the entries may have been updated and the zipped files may not reflect the updates. This is a really bad idea - I've never downloaded the zipped files because I want to make sure I view the latest and greatest! Zipped files is definitely the way to go, but the mods need to make sure they contain the most up to date version of each film.

[Steve Strickland]

I created a DVXUSER Twilightfest channel on Vimeo before the fest even started. I was told not to post my film until after the fest was over. If anyone wants to post their film that didn't make the final seven, go for it. It would be cool to have the films easily accessible through Vimeo. I second the streaming idea for the next fest. When I didn't have a film in the other fests, I was usually too lazy to download and view all the movies. If they were all streamed, I'd have watched them all.

Here's the page:

http://www.vimeo.com/channel22202

[Postmaster]

1. I´m happy with the download situtaion. I watch many film 3-4 times, jump back and forth or look 10 times the same 20 seconds. It´s faster and easyer if the file is on your local drive.
Most straming applications don´t like that stuff. Size is O.K., full HD download as an option.

2. Outside promotion and permission to show trailers would be great.

3. Physical screening of the top 10 also.

4. IMDB!

5. I may get some flak for that, but I would prefer only 1 fest a year.
For some of us it would be much easyer to collect budget, help, time and forces for one project.

my ct2 Frank

[Drew Ott]

I definitely like the idea of outside promotion and also streaming instead of download.

I think trailers would hurt the overall festival though. I think that's been discussed a lot before so I'll just say that I still don't think trailers would be a good thing.

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

No promises.

Think of this as a Red announcement*
*expect it to change you won't be disappointed.

But we are looking into a system that would allow every film to be embedded in it's own thread.
So you could view and comment all in the thread.

But there are technical, time, and logistical issues to overcome. So we may hit a brick wall and it may not be next fest or the next one after that or the next one. But we'd like to do it.

Issues include managing the upload process - having it be open to the filmmakers, but once they've uploaded they shouldn't be able to swap their files out etc. So it has to be a drop box situation.

It will have to be partnered with someone like Vimeo, or Motion Box, because no way Larry or anyone else here is flash encodiing every entry. We did this once. For Zombie fest. No mas.

[Adam J McKay]

I deffinately like the idea of some sort of streaming. I also think it would be great to have an annual best of festival somewhere. Mix it up L.A, N.Y.C maybe even Vancouver? Toronto?

[Drew Ott]

I think if we're asking for all of these improvements, we need to get ready for something like an entry fee. I'm not sure how much it all costs, but I imagine an "annual best of festival" is expensive. I'd be down with a small entry fee in order to have some of these improvements we're discussing.

[Rodney V. Smith]

now that would be totally awesome to have streaming video in the thread. I have to agree with the trailer comment though, that it might not necessarily be the best idea, but romote the festival outside the site would be a great thing.

The quality of films here has definitely improved to the point where the fests need to be recognized. An IMDB credit would cetainly rock. I did notice that withoutabox.com links to several festivals, some of them free, so why not DVXUSer?

[Rodney V. Smith]

Users created a Cinevate Brevis group on vimeo.com. It would be cool to have an official DVXUser page there too. Even if it's only for the festivals. That's another great way to promote the festivals.

[David j. Dodd]

I recently discovered the process behind judging the top films for the semi-finals, and it seems like it is a flawed design that allows experienced users and popular posters to easily get their film viewed and rated, while newcomers have a harder time. I believe the process is based on a point system that combines view count and rating. This means a high rated film can easily be kicked out of a top spot by a movie with hundreds more views.

I can agree that Promotion and Public Relations are a major part of the film-making process, but I feel an online competition such as DVX should give a more equal opportunity to both newcomers and experienced users.

[Mark Harris]

Just curious. I agree with a lot of the suggestions here, and have seen the fests get better and better.

But is there an overall plan in place for the what the fests will become? Meaning, does someone have a vision of what they will be a year from now, 5 years from now?

[Mark Harris]

I recently discovered the process behind judging the top films for the semi-finals, and it seems like it is a flawed design that allows experienced users and popular posters to easily get their film viewed and rated, while newcomers have a harder time. I believe the process is based on a point system that combines view count and rating. This means a high rated film can easily be kicked out of a top spot by a movie with hundreds more views.

I can agree that Promotion and Public Relations are a major part of the film-making process, but I feel an online competition such as DVX should give a more equal opportunity to both newcomers and experienced users.

Many newcomers have gotten very highly rated. Look at LoveFest. In horrorFest 2006, it was my first entry and scored 2nd. In TimeFest, Survival made the second cut, and they were new to the fests.

[Rodney V. Smith]

damn, mark beat me to it.

[Ben Sliker]

I recently discovered the process behind judging the top films for the semi-finals, and it seems like it is a flawed design that allows experienced users and popular posters to easily get their film viewed and rated, while newcomers have a harder time. I believe the process is based on a point system that combines view count and rating. This means a high rated film can easily be kicked out of a top spot by a movie with hundreds more views.

I can agree that Promotion and Public Relations are a major part of the film-making process, but I feel an online competition such as DVX should give a more equal opportunity to both newcomers and experienced users.

The thread "rating" has nothing to do with anything, in fact, it's kind of a joke. In the past, some users have requested low ratings, just for fun.

Film threads are listed in the order of newest post. (you can even re-order them if you want to) Yes, if you post more, your film will be at the top of the list more often. It is up to the filmmaker to offer a consistent string of interesting content for their film to keep people tuned in.

Moderators give both new and experienced filmmakers the exact same chance for promotion, a thread in "coming attractions" section. It's up to the filmmaker to promote from there (including comment in OTHER people's threads). Don't want to seem harsh, but please ASK in the future about something you may see as a discrepancy instead of framing it as something you've discovered that was somehow missed by the hundreds of other users involved in the fests.


Let's keep this discussion on track PLEASE. I second Mark's question, is there like a "5 year plan" for DVXuser fests?

[David j. Dodd]

Many newcomers have gotten very highly rated. Look at LoveFest. In horrorFest 2006, it was my first entry and scored 2nd. In TimeFest, Survival made the second cut, and they were new to the fests.

It may have been your first entry, but you had been apart of the forum since 2004. Since previous fests, DVX has also grown in popularity, meaning more submissions and more viewers. The average viewer will not watch and rate every single submission, instead they will pick the moderators and popular posters. I do agree with the top films, but you can not say that the process does not need to be improved.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Responded in yellow below.





Here's a few thoughts I've gathered -

1. Outside promotion - I feel the DVXuser fests still live in kind of a "bubble" on the internet, i think outside promotion by the individual filmmakers is needed to make this thing blow up.

Absolutely! They could boost the voting requirement to 100 posts if they are worried about people signing up just to load the vote for certain users.

2. Annual Physical Screening, a "Best of" show - Take the top 3 films from the past 3-4 fests and have a big screening in LA like we did for timefest. PLAN/SCHEDULE FAR AHEAD - so that people not close to LA have a better chance of making it. Also, vote/choose one of those films to receive 1 big prize that's not related to specific fest - DVXuser's Best Film of 2008. Also make sure to have this fest registered or whatever so participating filmmakers can get on IMDB and the like.

Cool idea.

3. Faster/More Efficient way of viewing the films and in higher resolution. I'm talking streaming here probably. Or even use the embed video tool. Have your film embedded in your thread for people to watch and then they can immediately comment. (If quality is an issue here, also offer the connoisseurs a high quality download version) Also easier for an outsider to come in and participate if they don't have to download 50+ films at 50 MB a piece. I think this is a huge bottleneck to the advancement of the fests.

Streaming is definitely the way to go! Especially with free HQ sites like Vimeo.


Let me know what you think!

Great ideas all around. DVXuser seems to be improving things every Fest.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a few of these suggestions fall into place down the road.
:thumbup:

Mike

[gabrielflorit]

I like the current system - a fest every 3 / 4 months. Twice a year will kill momentum.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

The thread "rating" has nothing to do with anything, in fact, it's kind of a joke. In the past, some users have requested low ratings, just for fun.

Agreed. Dead Week had the highest views and posts with a great rating of 4.08 stars over 13 votes. They unfortunately didn't even make the finals.

Thread views and ratings mean nothing.

Mike

[Robbie Comeau]

I think everything Larry's got going now is fine as it...Sure maybe a couple more small tweaks, but I like the way it's going.

a) Easy to vote
b) So what if it takes an hour to download ALL the entries, once downloaded, you have them, you can view them. I think streaming would be a little buggy, but I'm sure it would be tested thoroughly before being official
c) It's nice to see that beside each film, there's a thread that you can click on to go and critique, instead of searching for it in the boards.

Just my opinion.

robbie

[Darkline]

Film of he year is a great idea. I think everyone was pumped about timefest actually doing a screening - but clearly this cannot happen every 1/4.

I've been to a few fests and I have to say that the quality of movies is not always high. there is always politics, someone knows someone or had conections to the dog's wife's lovechild. But if you took the top 5 films (or whatever from each fest) and had them screened once a year, I think you'd have a really good line-up of films.

whether you'd want to go throught the pain of getting all the sponsorshipand whether it's financially viable, is another thing- but this idea could certainly propel DVX from the 'bubble' it might be in to something more substantial.

[Mike Insane]

There seems to be a bit of a difference between what people see the value of the fest is to what people want the fest to become.

If the value of the fest is to provide the push for filmmakers to get off the couch and behind the camera, as well as a place where good, constructive critique is available for filmmakers wanting to improve, then making the fest larger could seriously hurt that. More films, more viewers, no guarantee on their commitment to the character of the community... just a desire for their films to win... you see where I am going... ? I personally feel like the more films part scares me the most. Not the competition side either. I wasn't able to watch and comment on every film. I got close but in the end, I wasn't able to give everyone their fair viewing. With more entries, you can guarantee that I won't be able to see them all. So then it becomes a popular thread thing or a "do I think the name is catchy?" thing. That concerns me.

If the goal of the festival is to turn itself into a larger, more noticed event then great! But I think we need to consider a minimum count of viewings per voter as well as minimum number of posts. This is a way to create a "staff of Peers" per say, that is employed to watch and judge the films. This would avoid the feeling from filmmakers of their films not getting watched or commented on. It would also avoid eventually having to create a cap on entries like other festivals.

If the idea is to grow the festival I think an annual screening is the way to go. One big festival per year. There are a lot of ways to go about promoting/ producing an event like that but it needs to be professional. You only get one chance to "show up on the scene" in Hollywood. That takes budget and good minds devoted only to that task. i.e. a job.

I would like to see one of the 4 festivals get large enough to invite my bosses to. I just really value the grass roots, everyone helping everyone else, vibe we have here. I'm torn but I really feel like we need to protect that vibe first or we risk becoming just another film festival.

[Jason Ramsey]

Ben... all of your suggestions are good and all have been thought of already and are in various phases of planning, implementation.

I'm fully committed to the fests being the engine that drives dvxuser as we move forward.

If you have specifics on how to implement any of the ideas you have posted or any others, I'm all ears. Feel free to email me or whatever and bounce some things back and forth.

later,
Jason

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Ben... all of your suggestions are good and all have been thought of already and are in various phases of planning, implementation.

I'm fully committed to the fests being the engine that drives dvxuser as we move forward.

If you have specifics on how to implement any of the ideas you have posted or any others, I'm all ears. Feel free to email me or whatever and bounce some things back and forth.

later,
Jason
That right there is what makes this such a great place. :thumbup:

[Jason Ramsey]

If the value of the fest is to provide the push for filmmakers to get off the couch and behind the camera, as well as a place where good, constructive critique is available for filmmakers wanting to improve

Mike... Rest assured that this will remain priority #1 in my mind as we grow the fests. Growing the fests doesn't have to mean that goes away... It's one thing I was very mindful of when Barry, Larry and I were hashing out a new voting system. I don't want what you are talking about to ever take a back seat as the fests move forward. It's what makes these fests unique and (imo) so valuable...

That said, there is no reason it has to go away just because these fests continue to grow and evolve and eventually become the talk of the indie community :) Knowing what is at the core of the dvxuser fests will help make sure we keep our eyes focused in the right direction.

When you think of the fests growing, don't think so much in terms of participant numbers increasing drastically.... Think more of viewership (audience members) growing drastically. That's one of the goals of growing the fests. The larger audience base we can have, the more beneficial it will be to you guys, b/c you have a broader base of folks that your work is being seen by. And, we will also be able to support more films with a lot more viewers and the current rating system (vs. the former ranking system).

Anyways... to sum up... Just know that your concerns do not go unnoticed and maintaining the core of what makes dvxfest what it is is at the top of the list as we continue to shape and evolve the fests and the site.

Later,
Jason

[Ben Sliker]

Ben... all of your suggestions are good and all have been thought of already and are in various phases of planning, implementation.

I'm fully committed to the fests being the engine that drives dvxuser as we move forward.

If you have specifics on how to implement any of the ideas you have posted or any others, I'm all ears. Feel free to email me or whatever and bounce some things back and forth.

later,
Jason

Cool Jason, I'll jot my thoughts down.

Anybody for standardizing the file submissions? I'm kind of sick of watching one entry at 720p with awful compression jaggies and then the next at 320x240 letterbox.

[alex whitmer]

I do agree with the top films, but you can not say that the process does not need to be improved.

The system isn't perfect, and none are as far as I know. But it's damn close. No way to regulate human behavior no matter how hard you try and how good your intentions. It's as fair a system I have seen. The flaws are on the human side, mine included.

Like many, I have a few peeves, but in the long run, can't argure with the overall success, and the growth of the fest, which makes Mark Harris' point all the more urgent - to at least begin to talk about talking about how to handle these film fests going forward. 67 entries is a lot to view and comment on. Yeah, some of us pick faves since there simply isn't time for many of us to view each and every one (I still have a few to go). I have also learned this fest some filmmakers don't always have the time to respond to all comments, as they are busy viewing 67 films.

One option is to break the fest into two parts, one being 6 min films, and the other 10 min films. I know a few filmmakers here would like a longer running time.

or ...

Eventually I'd like to see DVX have levels, where maybe the ten best films are eligible to participate in the next level, and when ther are enough films, the ten best from that group move to the final level, and that level has an IMDB rating. Got to work your way up to it.

At some point this is going to hit one-hundred entries. In that mix there will be top-notch films and some that need a lot of work. If there is a level system, I think there can be more than one motivation to improve the craft - the first being the golden feedback, the second a shot at some prizes, and maybe the third a public screening. But the creme-de-la-creme can be an IMDB listing.

I know that means squat to some, but it sure looks nice one a resume.

One comment in another thread really struck me as yet another reason to find a way to reduce the number of films one watches. Sounds poopy, but if I felt a pang of obligation to watch 100 films, the quality of comments is bound to go down. That's just a fact of life vs. time.

So, levels. Eventually.

All necomers are automatically in level one. Maybe there will be 40 films there, some treasures. The prize for the top X% is to advance to level 2.

Voting for level one ends first, then level two has maybe a few extra days, and level three a few more. I know everyone is anxious to know who gets the bacon, but there is plenty of time to kick back and let this roll an extra week. The world won't end. It might slow to a crawl, but not end

Hey, also for the top level there can be those really cool laurel wreaths for various 'best of', and a DVX official selection.

Judging from comments in other threads, viewing is still going on. Imagine 30 more films. Need another way to encourage more, but temper the viewing time so it stays as golden as it is and has been.

just shooting from the hip.

[alex whitmer]

When you think of the fests growing, don't think so much in terms of participant numbers increasing drastically.... Think more of viewership (audience members) growing drastically. That's one of the goals of growing the fests. The larger audience base we can have, the more beneficial it will be to you guys

Heck of a point, and this also benefits all those involved, including the performers who can get great exposure, as well as the writers :), and all the amazing talent behind six minutes of moving images.

Actors
Writers
DP
Music
Sound
Lighting
Costume
Editing
Make up
Storyboards


I missed someone I'm sure.

aw

[clarkage]

I agree with a lot of things already said but one thing that I think should happen is, as a beginning film maker and i think i can speak for most other beginners out there too. It is not only very difficult but nerve racking to be competing with such high level members that are on this site. And not that it is a huge problem for me anyways because i just do these to learn, not for prizes. But I think it might even out the playing field a bit if we cut the festivals in half... experienced and amateur. Obviously prizes would differ between the two. But i think it might kick up motivation in less experienced film makers as well, to know that they could get a win under their belt or at least have a chance in competing.

[alex whitmer]

Another reason for skill levels. I agree it can be a little daunting.

It can also be hard, as a viewer, to move from a really polished film to one that is clearly lacking experience, and shift all gears to comment with relative objectivity.

Some of the films lacking an experienced filmmaker and/or crew can still produce some good films, but its shortcomings are all the more glaring when up against some power hitters.

All's fair of course, it is a competion, but I think skill levels will help spread things out a bit.

a

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Another reason for skill levels. I agree it can be a little daunting.

It can also be hard, as a viewer, to move from a really polished film to one that is clearly lacking experience, and shift all gears to comment with relative objectivity.

Some of the films lacking an experienced filmmaker and/or crew can still produce some good films, but its shortcomings are all the more glaring when up against some power hitters.

All's fair of course, it is a competion, but I think skill levels will help spread things out a bit.

aI think this might be very hard to break down though, and where do you draw the line? Should it stop just at skill level?
And how is that gauged? By how many short films they have made?

You mentioned crew. What about Professional crews and RED cameras? Should they be in a separate level?

See what I'm getting at? I think that would be tough to do, and this is coming from a guy that would probably benefit from this.
No crew on set but myself and shooting with an HV20 camcorder.

I think we have to leave it as is for now unless someone can come up with a clear breakdown of what constitutes skill level.

I'll tell you this. It has helped me tremendously knowing that I have to bust my ass because JDS or Harris might be entering any given Fest.
I could give you a longer list but I think you get the picture.

Having their game to compete with any given Fest has forced me to raise mine in a meager attempt to compete with them. :thumbup:

Personally, I think it's been good for me.

Cheers,

Mike

[gabrielflorit]

I think the idea of "levels" will work itself out - Spielberg will never enter DVXFests because he's too busy doing more important things. Likewise, when JDS or Horrigan or Fat Monster start doing the real thing (oh wait, FM is) they won't bother with this - DVXFests don't pay the bills. Do you see what I mean? Once I reach a certain skill level and get noticed by studios or get a job as a DP or whatever - then I'm not doing DVXFests anymore. And that's when I make a rather large contribution to DVXuser for helping me launch my career. :)

[Tim Joy]

I tend to agree with you Gabriel, for me, these fests are about challenging myself to become better at the craft, in hopes that one day I could make a living doing something I love.

Having the bar set high is essential. I would love to compete with Spieberg. BRING IT ON!

[pauly_the_hitman]

Cool thread. I myself would have to agree with most of the posts. Of course I am still thinking that as DVXuser.com there should be a separate competition for DVX cameras only. And then an open category for everyone else. Or maybe a separation of Standard Def and High Def cameras.
Pauly

[Richard J. Johnson]

If it aint broke don't fix it. IMHO. But everything changes so I'm down with whatever as long as we still have them.

[ProjX v2.0]

It will have to be partnered with someone like Vimeo, or Motion Box, because no way Larry or anyone else here is flash encodiing every entry. We did this once. For Zombie fest. No mas.

Actually Jack, you wouldn't need to change much from how the system now operates.

As I understand it, entrants currently submit an .mp4 or .mov H.264 file limited to 50MB. Because Flash now supports H.264 playback, all you need to do is swap out the file extension and switch .mp4 or .mov to .flv and you can embed it as is.

No re-encoding is required. :beer:

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Cool thread. I myself would have to agree with most of the posts. Of course I am still thinking that as DVXuser.com there should be a separate competition for DVX cameras only. And then an open category for everyone else. Or maybe a separation of Standard Def and High Def cameras.
PaulyIf you're going to separate cameras I suggest using a price range.
A $600.00 camera should not have to compete with a $4000.00 camera, or a RED camera for that matter. Although, I don't agree with separating them at all. Just adding to your suggestion.

Once again, I don't think that's the issue and I like the "open to all cameras" concept.
I've said it before, if someone makes a compelling movie that grabs me and doesn't let go from start to finish.... I don't care if it was shot on a cell phone. :)

The ability to tell a good story should be key.

Cheers,

Mike

[Robbie Comeau]

Clarkage has a neat idea, and I think it would be a lot of fun.

Think about it: Two threads, one intermediate, one beginner, and both can go in each thread and comment, and I think it would just be really interesting..

Might bring on more filmmaker, and it would feel like this community would grow larger, AND it may add more suspense.

Robbie

[Zim]

To confusing trying to break this up by groups of anything. It is good now. Like a few other threads said, as people move higher up the ladder they will drop out anyway.

[Zak Forsman]

Actually Jack, you wouldn't need to change much from how the system now operates.

As I understand it, entrants currently submit an .mp4 or .mov H.264 file limited to 50MB. Because Flash now supports H.264 playback, all you need to do is swap out the file extension and switch .mp4 or .mov to .flv and you can embed it as is.

No re-encoding is required. :beer:
i use flash players on my own sites and i don/t even replace the extension. h.264 plays back no problem.

http://www.sabinetwork.com (ignore all the temp text, this site is in early development)

[Darkline]

Once again, I don't think that's the issue and I like the "open to all cameras" concept.
I've said it before, if someone makes a compelling movie that grabs me and doesn't let go from start to finish.... I don't care if it was shot on a cell phone. :)

The ability to tell a good story should be key.

Cheers,

Mike

I agree. Actually I've seen a very good film shot entirely on a cell phone :-)

Most festivals are not format specific now, some films shot on DV have won many awards and not because they were in a different section to the 'proper' movies.

I personally don't think it's fair to separate cameras, not because it benefits the 'big' toys but because it says the DVX films cannot be as good, which I think is the wrong message to give.

I agree that it's an advantage to have a Red because it makes things look good with less work, it is a bit harder on a DVX, but it doesn't stop a DVX from looking very nice or trying for a completely different aesthetic altogether.

A few years ago we won an audience choice award at a festival with a DVX, it was up against a variety of films, other cheap DV cams, but also a few shot on film and one which had over a million dollar budget. If we had only won the 'cheap camera' award, how much satisfaction could we get from that? :-)

[alex whitmer]

Guess I am not seeing how having levels will take away any of the euphoria of being in with some top-notch filmmakers, or the drive to mix it up with them. It's all still there, just added a few stepping stones to smooth out the viewing / commenting / voting phase.

To have an IMDB listing, a fest needs to be vetted. Maybe having to fine-tune the skill enough to really work in the top ranks, and pass to level 3 - or whatever - will count as vetting.

For those of you who want to make this a profession, or get discovered, an IMDB is certainly not required, but I'm guessing it does help. There are a lot of fests out there. I get notices from Without-a-Box almost daily for more and more fest. I'm thinking these fests are the new 'pulp fiction' of yesteryear. Lots of cheap entertainment by anyone with a camera and a thirty-buck entry fee. In the old pulp fiction era, a few masters emerged (Ray Bradbury, Arthur C. Clarke) and went on to have admirable careers.

As mentioned by Jason, there is an effort to get a wider audience base drawn to DVX, which gives it a distinct advantage over so many fests mostly watched by a handful of judges and, if its a fest with some prestige, maybe a few talent scouts and a few Hollywood 'miners' (aka known as thieves).

For the most part we have no idea who is in our audience. There are a lot of members here that never show up on radar. If these fests continue to grow, which there is every indication they will, then there needs to be a way to spread out the viewing. For those of you wanting to be 'discovered', there are not a lot of folks willing to watch 100 films looking for that one pearl. If the top-notch films were narrowed down to say 30, then yeah, there is a good chance they will all be seen by a professional audience that may be searching for a particular look - your films are your resume - and if there is not an organized way to select certain films, it may be more of a deterrent then a help. Any talent scout will tell you going through pages and pages of headshots looking for a certain look is a pain in the ass, and we try and find any shortcut we can. When time allows we will browse.

By skill level I meant having all the Ps and Qs in order, no matter what equipment or crew one has. The final result is what counts – solid story, entertaining, and technically well made – in other words, one demonstrates they have a grasp on what is required to make a film, and that includes management skills. Time management, people management, equipment management.

When all that comes together, a filmmaker advances in their craft, and in the level of recognition from their peers – and an unknown audience.

My proposal to satisfy both a growing number of filmmakers, and a growing audience, is to eventually create three levels of competition. The first is for all first-time entrants, and for those still polishing their skills. Level two is for the top ten or so filmmakers from the first level, and next fest they automatically post films in this level, with a top 3 for prizes, and top 5 or so to advance to level three, where films are vetted and awarded laurel wreaths for expertise in various areas, and – the top three are eligible for IMDB, a public screening (required by IMDB I believe), and from there the filmmaker can improve their craft.

One danger is making the top level, then resting on those laurels, and producing less quality films, but as I mentioned before, no system is human proof.

Anyways, my two Euros worth.

Eventually there needs to be a clear, organized way to enter, view, and grow. Anything that will keep the sense of community alive and thriving, I’m up for. As it is, any one film can have folks from a number of countries and distant locations collaborating on one project – folks who have never met, and likely never will all the best support one could hope for.

aw

[Ben Sliker]

Alex, I think in theory, your ideas are sound, but logistically, what a pain in the ass. Think of these consequences -

Who makes all of these decisions? The Moderators? The Filmmakers? Who would want to classify themselves as a "lower-tier" filmmaker? It feels like your system is based on someone making a qualitative decision about a piece of work before it's even viewed by the rating public. That being said, if we are trying to draw more people in to watch/comment on these movies and they have a choice between watching 40 "i'm just here for the feedback" and 10-15 really awesome pieces of work, there's no way that any feedback is coming to those 40. I assume it would alienate those films more than help them.

I am a fan of what Jason has said, keep participation at about 70, but increase viewer participation. Anything more complicated than WATCH-RATE-COMMENT I think will drive people away.

As for an IMDB status, that's why I suggest a "Best of" show, now, i don't no what requirements are, but having a film festival screening where you had to place in another festival just to get there has to mean something.

[Inexistence]

Ben, I'm onboard with all of your suggestions in the 1st post. I like the idea of outside promotion,
but that entails trailers possibly since people like the moving image as a taste of whats to come.

[Rodney V. Smith]

what about a trailer of the last fest's films? Something to show what's been done and to promote what's coming.... instead announcing for each film, it's a trailer for the festival itself... that would be kind of cool and could build some kind of excitement...

[majikfraug]

How about having the poster/synopsis on the download page?
Make it a little bit more like browsing the DVD racks. Maybe give everyone a little practice in the promoting arena and give newcomers more of an "industry-style" chance. I've judged many DVDs by their covers, at least as far as whether I rented them or not. I don't think I've ever searched for a thread on a new movie, read its entire content and then decided if it was worth viewing.

[Horncastle]

Here's my comments:

1. Outside promotion - seems like a good idea to conjure up more support/viewing for the competition.

2. Trailers - There is the risk that people would put less effort into the films themselves, that the quality of the trailer would influence voting. I think there are enough possibilities for self publicity without them.

3. Annual screening & "Best of Year" - great idea. Good idea also to plan well ahead, both for the participants and for the organizers/sponsorship etc.

4. A long term idea of what DVXuser wants these fests to end up as (i.e. a 2 or 5 year plan) is a good idea. The bigger they get, the more controlled development will help.

5. Some sort of streaming or embedded video is fine but please leave downloading as a possibility for those who want it. I like to be able to switch back and forth, pull up a film just to see one particular thing, show it to others etc. Having them on my hard disk is a great advantage.

6. Dividing the fests by level, in my opinion, would be a pity. One of the great things about these fest is that they are open to allcomers and that there is no entry jury or requirements. Dividing them would open up a can of worms I think. Also, I think that having a two tiered viewing system would discourage many people from watching the films in the lower level. The finalist group is already there as a sort of "member vetted" superior group for those who don't want to wade through the whole lot. Concerning IMDB vetting, that would be for the films shown in the Best of Year annual viewing anyway, so there is no need for further separation.

Whatever you do, handle gently - the fests are developing well :)
Jason

[Simon Höfer]

How about having the poster/synopsis on the download page?
Make it a little bit more like browsing the DVD racks. Maybe give everyone a little practice in the promoting arena and give newcomers more of an "industry-style" chance. I've judged many DVDs by their covers, at least as far as whether I rented them or not. I don't think I've ever searched for a thread on a new movie, read its entire content and then decided if it was worth viewing.

That's actually how it was before. Until All Hollows Fest. In timefest you could look it up with a direct link. have a look:
http://www.dvxfest.com/timefest/direct_dl.php?id=1000128

[Horncastle]

what about a trailer of the last fest's films? Something to show what's been done and to promote what's coming.... instead announcing for each film, it's a trailer for the festival itself... that would be kind of cool and could build some kind of excitement...

Very good idea!! Maybe part of the first prize could be to have to make the next one :D

[majikfraug]

That's actually how it was before. Until All Hollows Fest. In timefest you could look it up with a direct link. have a look:
http://www.dvxfest.com/timefest/direct_dl.php?id=1000128

Yeah, but I think I'd rather have like a thumbnail poster next to the link. Like they have on Netflix. I think it would help if your title isn't ultra impressive, or is in the latter part of the alphabet :)

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

5. Some sort of streaming or embedded video is fine but please leave downloading as a possibility for those who want it. I like to be able to switch back and forth, pull up a film just to see one particular thing, show it to others etc. Having them on my hard disk is a great advantage.

Vimeo can be set to allow you to download the original file if one little box is checked off by the person uploading. So this wouldn't be an issue. :thumbup:

Mike

[Mattykins]

1. Outside promotion - seems like a good idea to conjure up more support/viewing for the competition.


I think this would be a shame really. Unless by outside promotion - we are talking about sections on personal websites. I am worried it would become a whore fest if we opened it up totally online.


2. Trailers - There is the risk that people would put less effort into the films themselves, that the quality of the trailer would influence voting. I think there are enough possibilities for self publicity without them.


I can see why we don't have them. Considering most people are furiously editing the night before the upload as is.


3. Annual screening & "Best of Year" - great idea. Good idea also to plan well ahead, both for the participants and for the organizers/sponsorship etc.

I would skip the best of the year screening. The screening for the fest itself would be nice. Last time I think it got littered with a lot of films that were old (but good). It just made the screening longer than I think it should have been. (this is from watching online)


4. A long term idea of what DVXuser wants these fests to end up as (i.e. a 2 or 5 year plan) is a good idea. The bigger they get, the more controlled development will help.

What is wrong with the fest we have here? I think what we have is lovely. I wouldn't want the DVXuser fest to become an online sundance.


5. Some sort of streaming or embedded video is fine but please leave downloading as a possibility for those who want it. I like to be able to switch back and forth, pull up a film just to see one particular thing, show it to others etc. Having them on my hard disk is a great advantage.

I agree, but streaming them would be nice too. Since I would be more inclined to open a random one and watch it though. Maybe more would actually view and vote is we could stream?


6. Dividing the fests by level, in my opinion, would be a pity. One of the great things about these fest is that they are open to allcomers and that there is no entry jury or requirements. Dividing them would open up a can of worms I think. Also, I think that having a two tiered viewing system would discourage many people from watching the films in the lower level. The finalist group is already there as a sort of "member vetted" superior group for those who don't want to wade through the whole lot. Concerning IMDB vetting, that would be for the films shown in the Best of Year annual viewing anyway, so there is no need for further separation.

I really don't think we need IMDB status. If you want the status - go submit to other awards shows. I mean, all of the entries aren't amazing. In fact - some can be painful to watch. Since the DVXuser fest is more of an educational fest, I think we should keep it that way. For awards you can submit the product to other fests.

As for tiers. I think that would be really sad. If it was based on cameras, then I think that would equally suck. I was here when you needed a DVX to enter. I missed out because I couldn't afford a DVX. Now I am thinking of bringing an F35 out to my next show. So again would I not be able to compete? Content before camera, as I think is said almost every other day here on the forum.

[Horncastle]

Mattykins - I actually agree with much of what you say. My comments were in response to what others were suggesting. In particular:



What is wrong with the fest we have here? I think what we have is lovely. I wouldn't want the DVXuser fest to become an online sundance.

The fest we have here is great. The long term plan could be just to keep it that way.



I really don't think we need IMDB status. If you want the status - go submit to other awards shows.

Agreed - my comment about IMDB status was in response to those who wanted tiers with that status for the top tier. IMDB status requires theatre projection as far as I am aware in any case. If someone wants it for an annual showing fine, but I don't really care one way or the other.


As for tiers. I think that would be really sad. If it was based on cameras, then I think that would equally suck. I was here when you needed a DVX to enter. I missed out because I couldn't afford a DVX. Now I am thinking of bringing an F35 out to my next show. So again would I not be able to compete? Content before camera, as I think is said almost every other day here on the forum.
My point exactly. :)
Jason

[Mattykins]

Jason,

I used your post because I was too lazy to look for a list by someone else. It was easily accessible. Haha. Sorry for using you as an example. I agree with nearly everything you said.

-Matt

[Horncastle]

No problem Matt :)
Jason

[alex whitmer]

Levels appears to be soundly beaten.

a

[Rodney V. Smith]

Levels appears to be soundly beaten.

a

with a big stick

[John LaBonney]

What Mattykins said.

[majikfraug]

How about a Top Ten (consistantly) instead of 8, 7,6 or whatever? I understand the reasoning for the way it is now, but I think having 10 at the top would be cool to shoot for. It probably wouldn't effect the Top 3 at all, from what I understand of the averages, right?
But it would be GREAT exposure for some of the good ones that otherwise might not get as much exposure. It's kind of like having levels, but not really. And I think having 10 six minute films would be a cool way to spend an hour.
Could even throw together a trailer as an "outside advertisement" for the finalists. Eh?

[Rodney V. Smith]

throwing together a finalist trailer right now actually. i just finished the long one with every single film included and for editing purposes, I kinda gotta agree about the top 10. Mainly would have made my life easier becasue I chose equal length clips from each film, but then had lines from the finalists in longer clips at certain parts.. equal spacing with only 7 films is hard...

look out for the final trailers tonight. will be posted in my thread.

the trailers I've done so far have all been done to promote the fest in and out of dvxuser, so hopefully they will really help on that front to at least raise awareness of what's going on with the fests.