Okay, now I am Having Fun.

[Doc Bernard]

Last week I got a call to be on "Cold Case" as a '60s Jetsetter. I didn't recognize myself after wardrobe and the hair people got done with me. Tweed suit, hat, horn rimmed glasses, Jeez, it was freaky!

Well today I get a rush call to be on the "Heroes" set tomorrow as a "technician". Nice!

It's only extra work, but it feels weird (but cool) being on the other side of the camera. I have gone over to the dark side (acting) LOL

[Ted Spencer]

I have gone over to the dark side (acting) LOL

No, that would be the "lit" side... : )

[Tom Marshall]

Cool. Now all you need to do is to get someone to give you a line or two of dialog. :)

[craigbowman]

Cool. Now all you need to do is to get someone to give you a line or two of dialog. :)

Such as, "These pretzels are making me thirsty!"

[Tom Marshall]

That's good dialog! :)

[Michele Seidman]

Doc...really happy for you

[Tim Joy]

I did some extra work back in the day and you can learn A LOT about filmmaking just by paying attention to what goes on around the set. Gives you an inside look at lighting, sound, directing style, camera gear, and most helpful to me was the movie set lingo.

I'd love to do extra work if they shot any movies in my area, but that's a once-a-decade thing here.

[Michele Seidman]

I did some extra work back in the day and you can learn A LOT about filmmaking just by paying attention to what goes on around the set. Gives you an inside look at lighting, sound, directing style, camera gear, and most helpful to me was the movie set lingo.

Yeehaanow

Yes, you can learn those things

[Tom Marshall]

Extra work is good to get used to being on a set and that's about it... well, that and make a few bucks...

BUT... If you're an actor and you do too much extra work (at least here in LA), you get somewhat known as an extra and will actually hurt your chances of climbing the acting ladder.

[Michele Seidman]

BUT... If you're an actor and you do too much extra work (at least here in LA), you get somewhat known as an extra and will actually hurt your chances of climbing the acting ladder.

So true and the same here. I have heard casting people point blank ask..."don't they do extra work for us" when presenting a new actor.

Come tell some of my old students that so they know I did not make it up!

[Doc Bernard]

So no one gets "miffed" or their knickers in a twist thinking I am trying to lower what an actor is, I am also an actor in very specialized action roles (yes, I do get lines, so that is more than being an extra). The extra stuff, I am using that for exposure, and a little extra money (pun very much intended).

My goals are to be behind the camera, in stunt coordinator roles, etc.

[Michele Seidman]

So no one gets "miffed" or their knickers in a twist thinking I am trying to lower what an actor is, I am also an actor in very specialized action roles (yes, I do get lines, so that is more than being an extra). The extra stuff, I am using that for exposure, and a little extra money (pun very much intended).

My goals are to be behind the camera, in stunt coordinator roles, etc.


Doc...

I don't think anyone got miffed or will. If they do, just tell me and I will put the wrath of 100 Jewish Mothers on their head! tee hee...I have a gift for it. I think a few of us just wanted to make sure to show the differences. You get all the exposure you can, make that money and ask questions too...trust me on that!

I have even worked with stunt folks a bit. Done a few myself in my 'pre middle aged bones' days. I also helped teaching acting at action actor camps and you want to get to meet as many stunt guys as possible. Meet the Keys too. If you have any background in particular sports that lend themselves to the work, make sure those guys know it.

Do you have a MA background? Or one of the other sports that lends itself to the job? Just curious because I might actually be able to give you some decent guidance on this one if you don't have someone filling in those blanks yet.

[Doc Bernard]

Let's see if this work's, LOL, stupid censoring algorithm: shi-to-ryu. I wasn't swearing in my PM, I swear! Oh rats, I just swore.:eek:

[Doc Bernard]

To some this may seem like nothing, but I got another callback to the set of "Heroes" (I am the low voltage technician fixing things in the office) and this time they are giving me a SAG voucher for this Monday!

Two more, and I'm eligible for SAG membership. But my luck, there will be a strike or something.

"I'd like to thank the Academy......" Sorry, just practicing for my Oscar. LOL! :cheesy:

[Michele Seidman]

To some this may seem like nothing, but I got another callback to the set of "Heroes" (I am the low voltage technician fixing things in the office) and this time they are giving me a SAG voucher for this Monday!

Two more, and I'm eligible for SAG membership. But my luck, there will be a strike or something.

"I'd like to thank the Academy......" Sorry, just practicing for my Oscar. LOL! :cheesy:


Big kudos sweetie. Keep blowing them away at auditions!

Do double check though...I thought the vouchers had to be for 3 consecutive days to be eligible. I could be wrong so do check that out.

[Doc Bernard]

I was told three vouchers, doesn't need to be consecutive. But will definitely check it out.

[Doc Bernard]

Big kudos sweetie. Keep blowing them away at auditions!

Do double check though...I thought the vouchers had to be for 3 consecutive days to be eligible. I could be wrong so do check that out.

Just called them and per SAG (Hollywood) you just need 3 days, non-consecutive on SAG productions and paid according to SAG rules (SAG-voucher). Of course if you are Taft-Hartley'ed, that just flies out the door.

Hope this helps.

[alveraz]

This whole, "BG are not actors" stuff is nonsense and I wanted to clear a couple things up here.

When I first moved to Hollywood I started in acting and trained with several well-known coaches and performed in local theater. I later landed a great commercial agent and a theatrical agent. During this time I did a ton of BG work through several Extra agencies and became friends with some of the top BG agents in town. I then landed a couple small parts in TV and several films. I became SAG and AFTRA because I worked for it. I'm not blowing smoke but I wanted to share that I know what I'm talking about before sharing my thoughts on some of these posters in here.

Most extras are in fact REAL actors that use BG work to supplement their income while schlepping around town for auditions. There are a small percentage of BG that are only in it for the dough and do not seek out acting as a means of pursuit, but they are few. To suggest BG are not actors and don't have to "hit a mark" is ridiculous. They may not have lines but they work hard to insure their roles in the film meet the expectations of the Director.

I was a stand-in for Benjamin Bratt on the show E-Ring for a brief time and remember how hard some of those BG actors worked to nail what the Director and AD were trying to accomplish. Without them the scenes would have sucked half the time, which goes for several shows/films. Also, BG work is a perfectly acceptable means to enter SAG and has paved the way for several successful actors in the world today. Brad Pitt is one of thousands that have worked their way into the limelight starting in BG work.

Not to mention, getting to know quite a few of the boutique BG agencies landed me several commercial gigs that spring-boarded into other high-paying gigs. Also, I now have several connections for other projects I work on now and have touched-base with a few of those agents when needed. Do not disqualify BG work as just some guys in the back-ground who are not actors. That's crap.

[Michele Seidman]

getting to know quite a few of the boutique BG agencies landed me several commercial gigs that spring-boarded into other high-paying gigs. Also, I now have several connections for other projects I work on now and have touched-base with a few of those agents when needed. Do not disqualify BG work as just some guys in the back-ground who are not actors. That's crap.


Cool, well please link your imdb listing for us. I am afraid I don't have the time to go read your blog but I can check out a resume fairly quickly.

[alveraz]

This isn't about me, I don't need to prove anything. Those gigs were commercials. And the connections helped me with several writing and production gigs, I should have elaborated. I only did acting for a year or so, but those connections were valuable. Helped me connect with several producers which led to additional writing assignments. But if you need to see my IMDB for some reason you can go look it up, I'm there. We can also piss for distance if you'd like.

[Michele Seidman]

Those gigs were commercials. And the connections helped me with several writing and production gigs, I should have elaborated. I only did acting for a year or so, but those connections were valuable. Helped me connect with several producers which led to additional writing assignments.


Alveraz

Oh, you're a writer and not an actor. I envy your ability to write scripts, especially dialogue. I love reading and acting it out but it takes a special skill to write it well. I don't write scripts as you may have guessed. Other than telling a potential screen writing student that "i have heard to pick up screen writers bible", I don't profess which steps and connections work best for that type of work.

[alveraz]

No worries, but I stand by my original statements regarding BG work. I'm right on all counts :) Take care and good luck to you.

[Michele Seidman]

I'm right on all counts :)

Your connections did not lead to more acting work

[Doc Bernard]

Crap, look what I started. Urination for distance contest? Film in the making? "Where the Yellow Stream Flows"? "Going the Distance"? "The Whizz"?

Now look what you made me say.

[Michele Seidman]

Crap, look what I started. Urination for distance contest? Film in the making? "Where the Yellow Stream Flows"? "Going the Distance"? "The Whizz"?

Now look what you made me say.


ha ha ha but what you said made me laugh!

[Mattykins]

Hey Doc,

Congrats man. I was roped into being a background extra for an episode of Psychic Investigators. We were short a few people so myself (a PA) and our producer and some other non-essential crew members ended up being background talent.

Needless to say, I again remembered why I work behind the camera and not in front of it. But really - cool stuff.

[rkat55]

No, no you're not...and I quote from the mouths of casting directors while thumbing through agency books of actors head shots...casting for a project...and seeing an 'extra' in the book...

..."don't they do extra work for us"...followed by a list of actors names who did stage, and indie film instead of those who did background work.


Your connections did not lead to more acting work and still you think your advice is the best thing for an actor to do? talk about going for distance...and stepping on toes on purpose.

You are not correct on it being a great way for an actor to advance.


Sorry, but I just had to respond to this thread.

I did BG for well over a year and it was a freaking BLAST. Whether BG actors are "real" actors or not, all I can say is they work damn harder than "real actors" most of the time. And try making a movie or tv show without them.

Try doing an all-nighter on a freezing cold dead of winter shoot wearing a short sleeve shirt because you're filming a summer night scene. The "real" actors could go to their trailer and warm up between scenes. We had to gather around a heater about ten to a heater. Did that on more than one occassion in fact. If anyone told me during that I wasn't an actor I would probably have decked 'em.

Some people may be getting older and having not achieved the level of success they had hoped may make themselves feel a little better putting down hard working BG ACTORS. I can tell you this, I seriously doubt anyone that would have the nerve to tell a BG ACTOR they aren't a real actor will probably ever make it big. Successful actors appreciate everyone on the set who is helping to make a good film or show.

And lastly, sorry, but 'hitting a mark' and being chased around 'all day long' by hair and wardrobe just really isn't that tough. You should thank God in heaven if you've had the opportunity to do that.

I guess you must have touched a nerve. Sorry.

[Michele Seidman]

Sorry, but I just had to respond to this thread.

I did BG for well over a year and it was a freaking BLAST. Whether BG actors are "real" actors or not, all I can say is they work damn harder than "real actors" most of the time. And try making a movie or tv show without them.

Try doing an all-nighter on a freezing cold dead of winter shoot wearing a short sleeve shirt because you're filming a summer night scene. The "real" actors could go to their trailer and warm up between scenes. We had to gather around a heater about ten to a heater. Did that on more than one occassion in fact. If anyone told me during that I wasn't an actor I would probably have decked 'em.

Some people may be getting older and having not achieved the level of success they had hoped may make themselves feel a little better putting down hard working BG ACTORS. I can tell you this, I seriously doubt anyone that would have the nerve to tell a BG ACTOR they aren't a real actor will probably ever make it big. Successful actors appreciate everyone on the set who is helping to make a good film or show.

And lastly, sorry, but 'hitting a mark' and being chased around 'all day long' by hair and wardrobe just really isn't that tough. You should thank God in heaven if you've had the opportunity to do that.

I guess you must have touched a nerve. Sorry.


rkat55

You are wrong on a few points but I will try to say it nicely. Most I trained are now in California and NYC making livings as working actors.

1) Standing around in the cold for a summer shot bites the big one for BG BUT you don't have to eat ice the whole time to keep steam from coming out of your mouth when you deliver lines.

2) BG are getting replaced with CGI ten times faster than actors because large crowd scenes cost too much money and Fan magazines don't sell with pictures of BG's but pictures of Actors!

3) Don't work as hard? While BG sit in a tent or holding area the actor is being sent to one department after another. Between takes when BG's stand around and talk the actors work on lines or get chased by departments who need to fix something on the actor or for the actor. While BG's go out and party after shooting the actor goes back to the hotel and tries to prep for the next days lines and close ups. While BG's read books or play football between takes the actor focuses on the character and scene.

Don't get me wrong....BG ARE needed...and BG do make a scene look much better...and I PREFER real BG to CGI,

[Nathyn]

Hm. I'm not sure, but I think I love you Michele. The cold hard truth is what hits you in the face when you learn you have a chance in Hell of becoming an actor if you consistently take extra roles. It's that same feeling for a director when you learn you can't go back and get a shot that you know would make the scene look a lot better.

Most of the time my BG aren't even actors they're people that had nothing better to do and decided to come on and check out the production but in no way are they "actors". They may be a film student or a theater major (learning) but for the most part they aren't actors UNLESS they're theater actors and even they don't bother a lot. Young actors may do it but even they don't do it often. I don't know how it works in other places but that's the reality here in Chi-town. I'm not saying an actor can't move up but many times it just doesn't work that way. You have to come to a point you say NO MORE background role. I've had talent say "I won't do background I have to have a line." Some say they'll work for free but they have to have some lines, period.

-Nate

[rkat55]

rkat55

You are wrong on a few points but I will try to say it nicely because I DO say this to BG's all the time because I AM the one who teaches them how to get out of BG to be ON camera talent. Most I trained listened and many are now in California and NYC making livings as working actors and not BG!

1) Standing around in the cold for a summer shot bites the big one for BG BUT you don't have to eat ice the whole time to keep steam from coming out of your mouth when you deliver lines. Try keeping ice in your mouth while you freeze and get back to me.

2) BG are getting replaced with CGI ten times faster than actors because large crowd scenes cost too much money and Fan magazines don't sell with pictures of BG's but pictures of Actors!

3) Don't work as hard? Excuse me! While BG sit in a tent or holding area the actor is being sent to one department after another. Between takes when BG's stand around and talk the actors work on lines or get chased by departments who need to fix something on the actor or for the actor. While BG's go out and party after shooting the actor goes back to the hotel and tries to prep for the next days lines and close ups. While BG's read books or play football between takes the actor focuses on the character and scene.

Don't get me wrong....BG ARE needed...and BG do make a scene look much better...and I PREFER real BG to CGI, but the cold hard facts are what they are and I did not write them or make them up. I am simply the person sharing that information.

Want to shoot the messenger...go ahead...but my students take the info and learn how to use it to meet their goals instead of make me in to the bad guy for telling them what the 'above the line' do think of BG. I see them on set telling BG they are background actors and when there are no BG around...actor is not the term most often used. The truth hurts but now you are free of an illusion.

I also did NOT make up the term moving scenery or background cattle...the producers and crews did. Producers, casting, directors, agents...they ALL say BG are NOT actors...again...I did not make it up. I simply told what most refuse to say because it is very competitive and they prefer you don't know. Then you don't have a fighting chance of moving out of the BG pay scale. I also know BG who like it and do it all the time because they like it. They have no intention of ever being actors and they don't call themselves actors either. They are proud extras who are adored on set because they are not trying to back door themselves to speaking roles. They show up on time and work hard and get along well. I have friends who do it all the time.

and PS...don't try to slam me on age and levels. I had fame and walked away from it by choice more than 25 years ago...partly to teach others how to avoid the crap. I give the real information most will never tell you and you try slamming me. Really nice....really nice...

I don't tell these things to get my rocks off or make anyone feel small...I tell them because I wish someone had bothered to tell me when I started out.

You may not like what I wrote but I am telling the information that can actually help someone get ahead IF that IS their goal. in fact...it has for many. Don't like me...fine. But don't try to back door me like that again while I try to help. I am GIVING valuable information.

oh yeah...and for the record...every film i do a lead in, i provide craft service on one of the last days of shooting myself. i get the snacks and drinks for cast, crew and BG's alike and the BG's get way better than the standard banana's and popcorn! you don't know me...now you have a little more to go on. act accordingly.

Sign me

Angry...
...enough to put my foot down and say "Don't you treat me rudely while I put my heart and soul in to helping by telling the truth while others sell a line of crap to take talents money hand over fist."


Sorry Michele, but I'm not buying it. And maybe out in the boondocks
where you live all the "big shots" are putting down BG, but here in
Hollywood where I live they are respected by everyone except
people who haven't made it and are just looking for anything to
feed their egos.

The list is long of successful actors who did BG at one time. It has
absolutely nothing to do with it. No one is going to tell you can't
get a part if you're right for it because you did BG.

Name ONE "student" you talked out of doing BG and now they
are successful because they stopped doing BG.

[rkat55]

Hm. I'm not sure, but I think I love you Michele. The cold hard truth is what hits you in the face when you learn you have a chance in Hell of becoming an actor if you consistently take extra roles. It's that same feeling for a director when you learn you can't go back and get a shot that you know would make the scene look a lot better.

Most of the time my BG aren't even actors they're people that had nothing better to do and decided to come on and check out the production but in no way are they "actors". They may be a film student or a theater major (learning) but for the most part they aren't actors UNLESS they're theater actors and even they don't bother a lot. Young actors may do it but even they don't do it often. I don't know how it works in other places but that's the reality here in Chi-town. I'm not saying an actor can't move up but many times it just doesn't work that way. You have to come to a point you say NO MORE background role. I've had talent say "I won't do background I have to have a line." Some say they'll work for free but they have to have some lines, period.

-Nate

Of course most of your BG aren't even actors. Are you making major films?
Are you using Central Casting? I guarantee you if were you'd have professional actors working for you doing BG. You could give them lines and they'd
probably blow away your "real" actors.

[Michele Seidman]

Sorry Michele, but I'm not buying it. And maybe out in the boondocks where you live all the "big shots" are putting down BG, but here in Hollywood where I live they are respected by everyone except people who haven't made it and are just looking for anything to feed their egos.

The list is long of successful actors who did BG at one time. It has absolutely nothing to do with it. No one is going to tell you can't get a part if you're right for it because you did BG. Name ONE "student" you talked out of doing BG and now they are successful because they stopped doing BG.


BG who are BG and NOT trying to be actors are some of the most respected folks on set. I have friends who have done it for 20 years and make decent money and enjoy being BG BUT...THEY don't call themselves actors.

[Michele Seidman]

Hm. I'm not sure, but I think I love you Michele. -Nate


Nate....

sighhh if only I was 20 or more years younger...lol.

Michele

[Michele Seidman]

Central Casting History




"...the creation of Central Casting allowed them to continue operating without government interference while providing a consistent stream of background talent for their films. For background actors, Central Casting provided a road map to working as an extra in Hollywood. Background actors could register with Central and all they had to do was call a job hotline to find work rather than having to drive from studio to studio looking for their own jobs. In the 80 years since Central Casting was formed, a lot has changed. Background actors formed their own union, the Screen Extras Guild, in 1946; created their own newspaper dedicated to the Hollywood extra, The Hollywood Megaphone; and even had their own awards for stand-ins called ‘The Elmers.’ Today, the Screen Extras Guild, The Hollywood Megaphone and The Elmers no longer exist, but Central Casting is still going strong. In fact, since 1976, when Central was sold to private interests, the company has grown and flourished like never before, becoming the leading supplier of background talent
___________________________

PS...CA does a great job at what they do...incredible even...but even they don't claim to supply actors like you said in another post.

[Michele Seidman]

During this time I did a ton of BG work through several Extra agencies and became friends with some of the top BG agents in town. I then landed a couple small parts in TV and several films.

Brad Pitt is one of thousands that have worked their way into the limelight starting in BG work.

on the Brad Pitt...He did 2 extra roles in his teens AFTER he had been a child actor on a soap and then he stopped doing BG and a year later was acting again.

[rkat]

Central Casting History




"...the creation of Central Casting allowed them to continue operating without government interference while providing a consistent stream of background talent for their films. For background actors, Central Casting provided a road map to working as an extra in Hollywood. Background actors could register with Central and all they had to do was call a job hotline to find work rather than having to drive from studio to studio looking for their own jobs. In the 80 years since Central Casting was formed, a lot has changed. Background actors formed their own union, the Screen Extras Guild, in 1946; created their own newspaper dedicated to the Hollywood extra, The Hollywood Megaphone; and even had their own awards for stand-ins called ‘The Elmers.’ Today, the Screen Extras Guild, The Hollywood Megaphone and The Elmers no longer exist, but Central Casting is still going strong. In fact, since 1976, when Central was sold to private interests, the company has grown and flourished like never before, becoming the leading supplier of background talent
___________________________

rkat...i did a little of YOUR research for you....

read above and maybe you will see what CA says about themselves and why I call agents for actors instead of CA. Now go do some homework on the rest and talk to me when you can debate with good info and when you have gotten off your high horse long enough to notice...YOU are not going to keep slamming me and getting away with it.

I am not a frightened little girl that you can keep pushing and being nasty with. I fight back and I fight with facts and I fight hard and to the bitter end....do you really want to debate a person who has years of knowledge on you or do you want to bother to learn one or two things?

PS...CA does a great job at what they do...incredible even...but even they don't claim to supply actors like you said in another post. Why? Because actors list with agents...extras list with CA.


Michele, I am not being nasty with you, why would you even say that? I
took issue with you putting down background actors. I think anyone reading this debate would say YOU were the one on a high horse, not me.

As far as your credits go, I'm really not too impressed, sorry. But, like I said before, I would thank God for any speaking roles you've ever had. I've only had a couple in very small indie things. As far as the rest of what you bring up, I'll stand by what I've said you haven't convinced me otherwise and I doubt you've convinced anyone else who actually knows the truth.

If anyone reading this thread is seriously scared of doing bg work because you think it will keep you from the golden prize, you can believe Michele who "walked away from fame and stardom" or you can just do it and have a great time, make some money and learn a hell of a lot about making films and tv shows. I highly recommend it.

[Doc Bernard]

Okay, everyone, your both right. Yes, you can be pigeon-holed by doing extra work, and you can springboard your career by doing extra work. When it comes down to it, Lady Luck has a big factor here, as well as talent.

Man, look what I started.

[rkat]

Okay, everyone, your both right. Yes, you can be pigeon-holed by doing extra work, and you can springboard your career by doing extra work. When it comes down to it, Lady Luck has a big factor here, as well as talent.

Man, look what I started.

Thank you Doc.

Michele, after seeing you are a blues singer I forgive you for
calling BG not actors ;-) I'm a big blues fan. (But stand by
BG are actors. period.)

[Michele Seidman]

Thank you Doc.

Michele, after seeing you are a blues singer I forgive you for
calling BG not actors ;-) I'm a big blues fan. (But stand by
BG are actors. period.)


rkat...

i guess i should say thanks but your posting two up from here claims i put down BG's. did you miss every time i sang praises of BG for helping make scenes look real? did you skim past my mention that i thought real BG were better than CGI? did you miss me saying i have friends who have done it for a living for 20 years?

[Michele Seidman]

ps...as an agent i DID get some BG's up the ranks AFTER i got them to stop doing extra work and got them to do stage and indie film and show casting they were paying their dues as actors!

it took much longer to break in any new actor who had done extra work than to break in one who never did it. those are just facts...not some random opinion.

[rkat]

On the sets I worked on, we were called Backround Actors.

That pretty much settles it for me.

And I sincerely apologize for any rude comments I made, but, this is a tough
business and we're all working our asses off to make it.

[Nathyn]

Nate....

sighhh if only I was 20 or more years younger...lol.


LOL. I'm not as young as people think. But the youthful look does come in handy.


my point was, is and will always remain that BG are not actors but background extras and that by continuing to do extra work you decrease NOT increase your odds of moving up the chain. it is that rare lucky chance Doc mentions...but it is rare. i am trying to help increase the odds for extras to be actors, at least for those who want to make that move. some don't. and i also mentioned those folks are wonderful to work with. did you miss that too?

The fact is a lot of people who are doing serious acting will flat out say "I won't do extra." They may take a featured extra role if they have a few lines and a name but they won't do background. This is not to say extras aren't "worthy" or no good actors came from being extras, I've done background once for a print ad, heck it wasn't even for a film. But most of my other roles are leads. Then again I make my own films. LOL.

-Nate

[Yeddi]

I think it really depends where you come from. The whole BG (which I'm assuming are extras - different continents, different lingo) I think depends on where you are from. I'm from Australia, so the extra or stand-in route isn't a bad way to go because they often get bumped up to speaking roles. Addmitedly, there's a slightly different way of running things here. As I understand even one-liners have to be auditioned in America. Auditioning costs money, so with our tiny little budgets little roles like that are often picked by resume, and extra work would indicate that at least they are working and looks better then no work at all. However, acting is really a demand/supply industry, in a country with such a large and highly trained acting population I could see how extra work might be seen as an issue. But I also think that writing off all extras at not actors is a bit presumptuous and a little snobby. Acting, by definition means "to do" - while extras might not be saying anything, they are "doing" their role, so by basic Oxford dictionary definition they are acting.

[Michele Seidman]

On the sets I worked on, we were called Backround Actors. That pretty much settles it for me.

Do you call a camera loader a DP? Do you call a PA an AD? Do you call a set electrician the Key? No? Why not? Because they are not doing the same job but the loader often wants to work up to DP and the PA is often paying their dues to get in the DGA and work their way up to AD and then Director.


LOL. I'm not as young as people think. But the youthful look does come in handy.

dang dude...now i want to know....age? lol


As I understand even one-liners have to be auditioned in America.

Yep...you are right. MOST one liners are auditioned here.


I could see how extra work might be seen as an issue. But I also think that writing off all extras at not actors is a bit presumptuous and a little snobby. Acting, by definition means "to do" - while extras might not be saying anything, they are "doing" their role, so by basic Oxford dictionary definition they are acting.

I did not write them all off at all. BY definition an actor acts and most extras don't. An actor pays their dues by training and doing theatre and indie film work.

I am not trying to be a snob Yeddi....I teach this stuff and here in the states it is and can be a hazard to be seen as an extra. I was an agent..I have seen it over and over and over.

[Michele Seidman]

On the sets I worked on, we were called Backround Actors.

That pretty much settles it for me.

And I sincerely apologize for any rude comments I made, but, this is a tough
business and we're all working our asses off to make it.

rkat...I thank you for the apology on the comments. and i know how hard it is...you may find it hard to believe at this moment but I am really trying to help you. i am trying to make it a little easier. i am trying to help you find a way over, around and through it.

i am sincerely NOT trying to demean extras.

[Yeddi]

I am not trying to be a snob Yeddi....I teach this stuff and here in the states it is and can be a hazard to be seen as an extra. I am not making this up. I am quoting what has been said to me over and over by major casting directors and agents all over the country. THEY don't view extras and actors the same. certainly some who train to be actors do some extra work but here...the more they do extra work...the harder they make the job for their agent.

...

Call me a snob if you want on this but since the two jobs do not require the same background or training...I will not call extras, actors. Not because I find little value in extras...but because they rarely have to interpret as the definition of the word actor quotes. I tend to be very literal and that seems to make everyone very upset on this topic. I did not say that NO extra has NEVER trained to act.

On set they don't do the same work. An actor interprets a character and an extra does not. Simple and not being snobbish...just being honest and using the language that way it was defined by the ancient Greeks and as the word has been used for centuries before I was born.


Umm, okay. I was actually taking you literally. :huh:


Doc...really happy for you but a lot of actors get upset when people claim to be actors while doing extra work.

So this really wasn't a general comment but a specific one? You weren't talking about other actors but yourself if you have instantly attributed my remark as being directed towards you. Maybe I shouldn't be taking you literally but reading in between the lines.

I think you are being very hyper-sensitive here. Why are you taking this personally? Why so defensive? Why are we getting your resume in a "respect my autho-ra-tay" manner? And why the need to force your point. I'm pretty sure people got what you were getting at the first time, they just don't necessarily agree and you can't make them. and Why give me another dictionary reference, and from wikipedia no less (not exactly the most reliable source)? I think you might be a little insecure, but it comes across as a little condescending, even if the posts are with the best intentions. I think the rebuttals have been more about the perceived attitude behind the writing, rather than the actual content. Just a thought.

BTW Doc - congrats! :beer:

[Michele Seidman]

So this really wasn't a general comment but a specific one? You weren't talking about other actors but yourself if you have instantly attributed my remark as being directed towards you.

Since I AM the one who several have called a snob on this, how did you expect me to take it when you used the same term? I DO teach this so maybe it is wrong of me to try and teach anyone here. I have taken several things personal here because several comments were directed AT me about MY resume and about MY age and so on.

[Michele Seidman]

PS to ALL


This site is about sharing info and helping others by lending what you know to them.

[Michele Seidman]

Crap, look what I started. Urination for distance contest? Film in the making? "Where the Yellow Stream Flows"? "Going the Distance"? "The Whizz"?

Now look what you made me say.

ok..not for nothing Doc but I am going to brag on you


Have any of you seen this short film Doc was a T.A. on? Check this out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTx0gfSIb5E

Doc Bernard made those gun scenes look incredible. And when you consider the budget....oh my Doc....I would hire you in a minute!

[Yeddi]

Since I AM the one who several have called a snob on this, how did you expect me to take it when you used the same term?
Seeing I was talking about the topic, I didn't think how YOU would take it at all.



I DO teach this so maybe it is wrong of me to try and teach anyone here even if my info has helped plenty. I have taken several things personal here because several comments were directed AT me about MY resume and about MY age and so on.

If you hadn't given your resume, then people wouldn't have said anything about it. I was not one of the ones who questioned the particulars of your resume, just the reason why you were giving it, yet you have been aggressive in your responses by assuming offense. As a female near the age of 30 myself, I would not question your age or gender, so you can rule those perceived offenses out if you have somehow attributed them to me.


As for the definition source....please find any dictionary that says extras are actor and defines being told to "walk from point A to point B as 'interpreting a character" If you can find a dictionary anywhere that claims that as interpreting...then I will stand corrected. But source or not that IS the original definition from the root word used by the Greeks for centuries.

Now come on! You can't be serious? You have asked a question, deliberately placing in ridiculous caveats in order to ensure they can't be refuted. I would not be able to find such a definition as the term extra is a modern term, that has been allocated simply because of the size of productions have now enormously increased. But I will point out three interesting points.

1. As there was no term as "extra" in the times of ancient greece from which the definitions you have supplied have based their interpretation, all those who performed would have been known as actors.

2. As a female, you would not be able to call yourself an actor. Performers could only ever be men.

3. The etymology of the word "actor" does not come from the Greek, but from the Hebrew, pre-dating the Greek by about 600 years (at least) and has stemmed from the word "hypocrite" which means "to pretend".


Sorry if I hurt peoples feelings but that IS what producers, directors, agents, managers and casting people say. I DID NOT MAKE UP UP. IT IS NOT MY OPINION. IT IS WHAT HAS BEEN SAID TO ME...I was the messenger and keep getting shot at.

You see, heres the problem. You've assumed *WE* (as in us plebs here on the site) don't know or have access to this type of information ourselves. Seeing you are so into resumes perhaps I should give you mine.

I have a degree in Literature and a Masters in Media Communications. I am a published and produced writer, director and producer.

The point of that is, that as a producer/director I use the terms extra and actor interchangeably. I do not look down on those who have lots of extra work, in fact it shows me that they have a good work ethic and have at least been on a set recently and I would be more likely to give them a job then some trained actors that have sat on their arse for the last six months. And as someone said before, quite a lot of extras are actor trained. I also do not necessarily give more credence to a degree trained actor over a back of broadway trained actor. I believe that there are just some things you can't learn in a school and nothing can substitute for life experience.

Now as for this statement, you were not just passing on the message, you were trying to ram it down people's throat with an air of authority, particularly when people like myself didn't agree with it. Now that I have been forced to a certain extent to reveal my own resume, you should see I don't need you to do that. Now I did admit that some places and people may feel the way you have expressed but that doesn't make it a given, nor does it mean you can have a go at those who don't agree with you.


Now you make off comments that I can consider as you being nasty to me too. So nice of everyone to take what was done to help as something meant to rip their world apart.
It's not what you say, it's the attitude in which it is delivered. And no one is ripping your world apart. I know actors are meant to be dramatic but that is over-kill.


Anyway, I've had enough of this conversation, I've said my bit and I'll leave it at that.
Have one on me :beer:

[Yeddi]

In regard to the Gig. That's a nice little short for your showreel Doc. I was impressed that my attention stayed mostly on you despite the Dealer's eyebrows. Those were hypnotic, like fuzzy caterpillars dancing. :P

[Doc Bernard]

Thanks, Michelle! And, you too Yeddi. We gave him a hard time about his eyebrows. And the kid at the end was a bit over the top, but that was the look the director wanted. Working with kids though, jeez, that took 8 takes just to get to that point.

A little more background on GiG: This was a 72 hr Project for Campus Movie Fest at UCLA. I was brought in to wrangle weapons, teach tactics/weapons handling, and help out a bit with SFX (Blood and Glass). I ended up also being the SWAT team leader. But my credited titles ended up as "Stunt coordinator/Armorist" and "SWAT Team #1" though I could of taken a lot more credits. (SFX Coordinator, Traffic control, 2nd Unit Director, TA (Sound) since I taught their PA how run a boom pole) The 2nd Unit Director was because the Director turned both the entry scene and the shootout scene over to me to script and direct the action sequences. That was fun!

Okay, back to the discussion at hand.

[Michele Seidman]

Yeddi

This started when I tried to explain how being an extra could hold someone back. Then it became a chance for many to get mad at me for saying it. You yourself mention you heard we do things different here. Yes, we do.

Just so everyone is aware...my goal when I started was to be a performer but to also help others do it. I have met my goals. I love doing what I do and I love helping others reach their goals. I get as happy for the actors I trained as if it happened to me. Yet, people decided I was bitter for not reaching the goals THEY set.

Your last post suggested I was putting down extras. I praised extras in almost every single post. Pardon me (and i use pardon NOT as sarcasm) for missing the Hebrew root of the word but at 3am it was difficult to spend much time seeking dictionaries. I went first to the quickest source at hand. You still don't call a camera loader a DP or a PA an AD!

I happen to agree with you about using those who are near at hand BUT here in the states there are too many of the BG who have never taken a class and don't know how to deliver a line. In this area alone there are over 20,000 extras listed in one county of our state that has over 100 counties and this country has 50 states as you know. The vast majority (not all) don't know how to act but hope to be discovered.

(I DID modify all my posts on the subject in hopes that no one attacks me anymore)

Once more and without sarcasm...pardon me for trying to help them see what is going on behind their backs here in the states. I was trying to give them a fighting chance of working around over and through being pigeon holed as extras.

[rkat]

rkat...I thank you for the apology on the comments. and i know how hard it is...you may find it hard to believe at this moment but I am really trying to help you. i am trying to make it a little easier. i am trying to help you find a way over, around and through it.

i am sincerely NOT trying to demean extras.

I understand, Michele and thank you for accepting my apologies. I have
no interest in creating enemies. It's the New Jersey in me I guess.

[Michele Seidman]

It's not what you say, it's the attitude in which it is delivered. And no one is ripping your world apart. I know actors are meant to be dramatic but that is over-kill.

This is the last I will say directly to you on this subject. See your words attributing the 'rip the world apart' comment? YOU attribute it to me claiming they were ripping my world apart.

I said THEY were acting like I was ripping their world apart. That is a HUGE difference.

I sincerely don't mean this to be rude or snide but how is it you took my comment about their reaction and make it my reaction? Was it late for you too? Or had we both gone back and forth so much you did start to skim read?

[Michele Seidman]

I understand, Michele and thank you for accepting my apologies. I have no interest in creating enemies. It's the New Jersey in me I guess.

lol rkat...

no worries. i lived in NYC for a long time got a thick hide from it. lol...just glad you know i really did mean it to help and never meant it to come off like i was talking down. i am so sorry if it did. i think i have been teaching too long maybe and go auto pilot like i need to fix things for everyone!

[Doc Bernard]

For anyone who is interested, here is another film (same Production Co.) I TA'd as well as being one of the Cam Op's for. Slick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBK3z3CdW6k)

This is just the trailer, it premiere's 2-18-09 at UCLA.