Client From Hell

[thetvirus513]

So this is pretty much just to vent but I'm doing some videos for a fitness studio and the problems with this client are endless. I'm stuck setting up interviews with the trainers who train people there and I have probably schedule just shy of 15 interviews. 2 people have called before (barely) and cancelled, and 6 times a trainer has just chosen not to show up. No warning, no apology, nothing. Originally I was scheduled to get 5 trainers interviewes when talking with the client. Then when it came time to nail down the contract she pushed it to 8, and I still accepted. Now after having already started she is trying to push it to 10+ with no pay negotiation, and I at this point am refusing. I have already filmed the 8 and don't want to setup lighting and stuff again because taht whole part is done as far as im concerned. Next, I was originally supposed to just put the three finished videos on their website. Now she is asking me to link roughly 20 different questions to different areas of different movies. Not only do I not know how to do this (although I know people who could help) I simply don't want to, and never comitted to doing so. On top of that she is taking these three 5 minute videos and slowly trying to increase them. For example for one of them (supposed to be 5 minutes) she is now trying to split it into two parts when one part (which ive already filmed) is looking to be around 7 or 8 minutes already! And to top it all off, as I am refusing to do most of these things, she is getting upset with me. If I wasn't holding up the contract then she has every right to be annoyed with me but I am upholding it and have already gone beyond it but at a certain point I need to say no more! It is driving me crazy!!!!!

[Nic Aragon]

Sucks, id say once you feel you are at a point where you can say that you have completed everything agreed upon, without having videos incomplete (even if they are longer than you wanted) you can say you did and went above and beyond the contract and hand it all over to the client and be comfortable about saying no to anything else without having the feeling of any pressure on yourself to finish anything else.

[thetvirus513]

Yah that is pretty much where I stand. The videos being longer is an inconvenience but it is not requiring me to shoot more, just to throw in some extra clips in that I would have taken out. What I am not okay with is doing things that are going to take up a lot of extra time when I have not been contracted to do so. For example adding more interviews on. Also she is pressuring me on the deadline of the project saying that I should have been done interviewing the trainers already, or that I should have been done sooner. I really don't appreciate this because I agree with her, but it was the trainers affiliated with her who chose to consistently not show up which just adds time for me and does not add any more money for me. It is frankly just rude to pressure me on a deadline when it is at the fault of her associates that we are cutting it close!

[Jockomo]

Let's see, you have 8 shoots and 8 cancelations. Looks like you're finished. Submit the bill and a blank DVD. But seriously...

Why can't you just charge them more money? You should charge them every time you set up, regardless of whether or not the trainer shows up. Put the responsibility in their court. If their trainer doesn't show up and the client has to pay you anyway, you can bet the trainer will hear about it.

This is a good example of why all of your billing should be based on an hourly rate... then when the client asks for more you can happily say, "sure no problem anything you want." You should also consider tacking on an extra 20% anytime they say there is a deadline.

Bidding with flat rates always leads to this kind of crap, especially with cheap clients.

[img]

yep hourly is the way to go.

[Jim Brennan]

What I do is give a flat estimate based on an hourly rate. Then the contract states that the estimate includes whatever we discuss, that I won't go over the estimate without informing the client, and that I am not obligated to do more than the contract outlines.

I just don't like hourly rates for all the nickel and diming, but this kind of contract protects me from having to do more if I don't want to. But it also allows me to throw in some extra services if I choose. My time (and yours) is worth something.

[twocik23]

I deal with this all the time here in Naples, Fl. People here don't know much about the business and well like to push their limits. Here's what I say

Mr./Ms. John/Jan Doe
We/I have no problem meeting your requests, but we do charge extra for ______ . Be nice, but stern.


Now sometimes that's a little easier said then done, but it's your time and money is what I always tell myself.



Anyway that's my 2 cents and good luck to you !

[jpbankesmercer]

I found that dealing with clients who don't know what they want in the first place always ends up a nightmare. When you deal with people, 'on the money', they tend to trust your judgement and not take liberties.

Jp.

[Jim Montgomery]

Mr./Ms. John/Jan Doe
We/I have no problem meeting your requests, but we do charge extra for ______

This also works " We will be happy to send you a quote for the additional work."

Jim

[bewillia]

I wouldn't sweat it at all. That's pretty standard. Just inform them of your rate once you're working outside the contract. You owe it to yourself and to them to be as honest as possible from start to finish. Don't assume they are trying to take advantage of you.

[Isaac_Brody]

Make another contract for the extra work, otherwise they'll bleed you dry.

[Richard Allen Crook]

Does anyone have a link to some sample rates they think encompass the widest scope of possibilities? I mean something that lists the rates, cost of this or that, reschedule fee, and any other contigencies that could come up? I know that would help me on these contracts, I think others may benefit as well.

[grinner]

your regular hourly rate will take care of you as clients multiply the time it takes to make a video.
Back in the day, I had a shop where I worked on cars. I had a sign posted that read "hour rates: 50/hr, 75/hr if you watch, 100/hr of you help.
This really is the same thing. You can make a 5 minute video for a day rate. But whith a client fumbling their way through it, this can easily take 3 day rates.
charging for time is the only way to make it through the confused.

[JasonFox]

I charge three ways (I'm a freelance ad writer/creative director, so it's moderately similar):

1. Straight hourly
2. You give me particulars, I give you an estimate -- which includes overages
3. You give me a budget and particulars and I'll tell you if I can do it for that amount and how many revisions (if any) that includes

1 and 2 are always the best. Obviously, having a client who pays an hourly rate and pays whatever it takes to get the job done is best. But number 2 works well if you're good as estimating hours, because you just take your hours times your hourly and pad it a bit for jackassery and there's your estimate. I've gotten a bit hosed before on number three, but never too hideously.

[thetvirus513]

yah i definitely overestimated the time it would take when i gave the estimate but I think in the end i underestimated it having already driven there and set up equipment 8 times where the subject didnt show. so for future reference would i just put a clause in the contract (assuming i want going hourly again) that basically says flat fee for no shows or cancellations or something like that. How would you guys handle it if you were doing a project like this and foresaw some issues but were still bidding the project rather than going hourly?

[grinner]

round up or pass

[thetvirus513]

What would be a good and appropriate rate once I am working outside of the contract. If she pushes to do these extra interviews what should I be charging. I know if depends on a lot of stuff but I just need to tell her something.

[thetvirus513]

can anyone throw out some numbers for me, even if it is a wide range?

[jpbankesmercer]

What do you think its worth? Or what do you think your worth?
Get a stopwatch and a timesheet for every project that you work on in the future, mark down every time you sit down to edit or do FX, (even if its 10 minutes), do a seperate budget sheet with all the wet costs, by doing this you can work out what your worth and you can gestimate the next job better each time.
Lawyers do it :)

[timbook2]

Lawyers do it :)

A client who felt his legal bill was too high asked his lawyer to itemize costs. The statement included this item:

"Was walking down the street and saw you on the other side. Walked to the corner to cross at the light, crossed the street and walked quickly to catch up with you. Got close and saw it wasn't you. -$50.00."

jokes aside: I charge a flat 600 US$ for 8 hour working day with full equipment plus expenses/travel/hotel etc...
In your case 50$/hour sound possible?

[chris f]

Learn as much as you can from this experience and incorporate it into your next gig. The best way to learn is by doing and sometimes you've got to go through experiences like this to come out better on the other side.

My advice is be respectful, professional, carry your end of the contract, and start alluding to other projects and clients that require your time as well so they will start respecting your time.

[jpbankesmercer]

Got close and saw it wasn't you. -$50.00."



Bwwahhaa:)