Gran Torino -- the old Clint Eastwood is back!

[Batutta]

Pissed off and packin' heat!

http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/grantorino/hd/

[Cheesesailor77]

Seriously, it looks really good, but it is kinda funny to watch 80yo eastwood kicking ass :D

I love how on the apple trailers site, all it says is Director: Clint Eastwood, Cast: Clint Eastwood

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

Woo hoo! Looking forward to that.

Seriously, it looks really good, but it is kinda funny to watch 80yo eastwood kicking ass :D

I love how on the apple trailers site, all it says is Director: Clint Eastwood, Cast: Clint Eastwood

I totally disagree. I think it's a believable progression of the type of character Eastwood has been playing all his life.

He's not beating up The Rock in hand to hand combat. He's a grizzly old mean sum'bitch with a pipe wrench that knows more ways to kick your ass and kill you than the 17 year olds who are just learning to be hard know ways to wipe their bums.

At least that's what I took from it. You could see it in the gangbanger's eyes - holy crap - if this old white dude is crazy enoough to step to us like this maybe we SHOULD be scared, maybe he knows something we don't. I mean it seemed like they were evaluating - I should be able to take this guy, but something tells me I better think twice.

Also the kid they showed him beating on was like twelve.

Finally, when the priest says "what are you gonna do?" he says "I don't know but whatever it is they won't stand a chance." To me that means it's not gonna be a fair fight because he's eighty. But smarter, more experienced, and most importantly - meaner by a lot. :)

A lot of his characters are not badass by physical might or being a the best fighter, but rather being cooler headed to the point that it's scary. As his character descibes in Unforgiven I think, the trick to winning a gun fight is not to be the faster draw, but to be the more accurate, steady draw. So while these kids will be crapping their pants when he comes at them, he, perhaps even more so at this stage of his life, will be totally nonplussed at anything they can throw at him "Kill me? Big deal, the good years are over." "Torture? You can't begin to imagine what I went through as a P.O.W.r" He's got nothing to lose and he's been through it all.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Gang Banger's and their gutless drive-by shootings. They don't have the balls to stand in front of a man and throw down.
Their first mistake was that they missed. Big mistake. :)
Now he's pissed and in his right to kill their asses.

I'll definitely go see this.
Clint is the man!

80 or not. If he gave me that look..... I wouldn't mess with him. :eek:

[pathfinder]

Clint is the man. I'll definitely check it out.

[Wrathborne]

78 and still kicking ass, he really is one of the last Hollywood icons we have now. I hope the film does well.

[Kubrick71]

Preview at first kind of reminded me of Crash with that whole over dramatized thing, but I think if Clint punched me as hard as he could he'd hurt himself more than me.

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

That's where the pipe wrench and the gun comes in :)

I hear you though, he does look more frail than we've seen him in the past.

Sean Connery - still waiting for the movie where I don't buy him as being able to throw a punch.

[Michael T]

Heh! when I was sixteen working on a farm the old farmer was around eighty and could tighten up a large set of vice grips and with one hand he could snap off the head by squeezing so hard. Not everybody is so strong but you might be surprised if Clint reached out and smacked you right in the mouth. That old boy has been in a lot of real knock down dragout fights. Go ahead piss off a guy that doesn't believe in PC and you could be picking yourself up off the ground.

Well milking 40 head of cattle every day by hand will make and keep you strong.

[KyleProhaska]

Yep saw this too the other day, looks great. I look forward to this one. :) Clint is awesome, no wonder a lot of women still find him attractive even in his age. He's a REAL MAN, not some wuss...

[J.R. Hudson]

This film lokoks awesome.

And hell .. stand up if you think you can take 'old man' Clint in a scuff.

Thought so.

[Jim Klatt]

I found somebody's online opinion on the trailer, and I kind of agree:

Seeing the preview was really interesting. It just seemed like a chance to show Clint Eastwood beat the crap out of minorities. Kinds like "The Brave One" with the same lame catchphrases "Get off my lawn" / "I want my dog back," same damn thing. It doesn't seem provocative, just lazy. Bet he throws in a couple of racial epitaphs, and then his heart is warmed by the loving Asian family so he must confront his racist ways. Then the whole priest problem, just stems from he same conflict Eastwood has in "Million Dollar Baby" (I guess if it earns you an Oscar, you gotta milk it for all it's worth.)

[Batutta]

I don't agree with any of that. I think it's an opportunity for Clint to address the whole vigilante theme of the Dirty Harry movies in a more honest way, the same way he tackled violence in westerns with Unforgiven. Clint is too smart of a filmmaker to play it for cheap racist thrills.

[J.R. Hudson]

Agreed Batutta !

[J.R. Hudson]

Damn it BAtutta

Clear out your Private Messages !

[mcgeedigital]

Garand FTMFW!

[Cheesesailor77]

I found somebody's online opinion on the trailer, and I kind of agree:

Seeing the preview was really interesting. It just seemed like a chance to show Clint Eastwood beat the crap out of minorities. Kinds like "The Brave One" with the same lame catchphrases "Get off my lawn" / "I want my dog back," same damn thing. It doesn't seem provocative, just lazy. Bet he throws in a couple of racial epitaphs, and then his heart is warmed by the loving Asian family so he must confront his racist ways. Then the whole priest problem, just stems from he same conflict Eastwood has in "Million Dollar Baby" (I guess if it earns you an Oscar, you gotta milk it for all it's worth.)

i actually would agree with this, but it doesn't make me want to see it any less. I don't really understand why it's a bad thing :D

[ChrisHurn]

Haha yeah! I'm gonna love this.

[Evan S]

Between watching Clint Eastwood, Harrison Ford, Slyvester Stallone or The Rock, Vin Diesel, and Paul Walker.

I choose Clint, Harrison, and Stallone every time.

[J.R. Hudson]

There aren't too many good bad asses anymore. The era seems bygone. I welcome this return to manness.

[Brandon Rice]

Wow... this looks great.

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

There aren't too many good bad asses anymore. The era seems bygone. I welcome this return to manness.

As long as you have you're leather bracelets I think manness is safe for future generations. :)

http://a723.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/116/l_f9684c16e4be853ac787fffed01d00b2.jpg


http://geekofalltrades.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/conan.jpg

[J.R. Hudson]

.... lol !

[Rick Meyer]

this movie looks awesome. I am like kathy bates in Misery. I am Clint Eastwoods biggest fan. I idolize the dude. He is Hollywoods number 1 asset. I am definitely checking this flick out on the first weekend. I hope its great. Even if it isn't, I'm gonna think its great and call it a day. He's too good a filmmaker to slut this premise.

[rsbush]

Couldn't they name it after a car that wasn't a dog?

[ZFarms Productions]

I can't wait for this movie. I think it's gonna be up against Changeling for Best Picture.

[Jim Brennan]

Could be a perfect combnation of the thoughtful, flawed Clint of Unforgiven and the Badass Clint of Dirty Harry.

Which means it could be the best movie ever.

Or, it could be totally self-absorbed with just enough punches for the trailer. I'm hoping for the former.

I don't agree with the tone of that online review. I mean, it could be spot-on, but you don't know until you actually see the film. Reviewing a movie by its trailer is like reviewing a woman by her bra size. It's just stupid, and you miss out on some reeeeaaally good stuff.

[sinfear11]

Clint is just an amazing director/actor.

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

Clint is the man!

80 or not. If he gave me that look..... I wouldn't mess with him. :eek:

I know! Just imagine what two clint eastwoods would look like! Oh wait I think I found a photo...

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/Reviews/jason/skeletons.jpghttp://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/Reviews/jason/skeletons.jpg
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/Reviews/jason/skeletons.jpg

lol jk. He is getting up there though. Looks like a pretty good movie. I hope there is more complexity then the trailer reveals. I'm a fan of his directing credits.

[spidey]

just watched it. It was good movie. classic clint all the way. not his strongest but not his weakest either i would say its like along the lines mystic river but with some humorous parts. Good job. one of the better films of 2008.

[jpeck]

Outside of Eastwood, the acting is pretty shoddy. However, even at his current age, Clint is still a total badass.

[spidey]

yeah thats what it was. some acting was ok other than that it was a solid film.

[brianluce]

Outside of Eastwood, the acting is pretty shoddy. However, even at his current age, Clint is still a total badass.

I thought the acting was dreadful too. Clint was Clint, but that brother and sister? omg. Some of their lines weren't too deft either, very on the nose.
I don't think the studios gave him a budget. They shot the whole thing in some dirty little midwest neighborhood with people you've never heard of. And not a lot of extras either. Anyone notice the rain scene? Where he pulls into the driveway and there were hard shadows all over the place and you could almost see blue sky. Over exposed shots. But, the movie itself, like most of what he's done from Fistfull Of Dollars to Million Dollary Baby, hits you like a wrecking ball.

It was hilarious too, I saw it at a packed house in Palo Alto, people were lol all during the movie, and applauded at the end. Is that common? applause?

And how about that haunting song at the end? Was this Eastwood's farewell?

[Batutta]

This movie wasn't bad, but I liked it better when it was called Sling Blade.

[sean90291]

Two thumbs down. Wrong on so many levels.

Clint is still a great actor. But not so great a director anymore, if he's going to take credit for this traffic accident.

Bad acting. Bad directing. Bad color correction (mismatched). Bad editing (totally confusing transitions--what day are we on now?). Bad writing. And downright dangerous messages. What happened to Clint! I know his heart was in the right place. But where was his head?

Whenever a director is also the actor and he alludes to himself being "Jesus," you gotta wonder...

[ESTEBEVERDE]

Great Movie!

Indy style with a bit too big of a budget.

The acting was clearly not done by jaded and albeit professional actors.

Some were fantastic and some were junior highish at best.

Still.... great message that has great meaning to both the affected communities and the community at large.

[Dingos8mybaby]

This movie wasn't bad, but I liked it better when it was called Sling Blade.

I'm failing to see the connection...besides the director playing the lead in both, of course. Oh, that and I liked Sling Blade.

[Tabula Rasa Productions]

SPOILER


I don't understand why they shot up their relatives house instead of clints. And they raped the girl? The movie had a lot of narrative problems. Clint was a badass though. i chuckled whenever a racial epitath came out of his mouth.

[Batutta]

I'm failing to see the connection...besides the director playing the lead in both, of course. Oh, that and I liked Sling Blade.

Outsider befriends family, takes young boy under his wing, and sacrifices himself to save the boy from a future of violence.

[spidey]

well in much of asian culture rape is a huge deal among relatives. my ex was raped by her older cousin.

[ESTEBEVERDE]

well in much of asian culture rape is a huge deal among relatives. my ex was raped by her older cousin.

ouch! :(

[Batutta]

Yeah, something tells me that's not advertised on the tourism brochures.

[Everts]

Saw it two nights ago goodmovie,
The acting was off at times , but still enjoyed it .

[Everts]

Yeah, something tells me that's not advertised on the tourism brochures.


Nor in the inflight movies.

[sean90291]

Great Movie!....great message that has great meaning to both the affected communities and the community at large.

I think I can guess what you saw as the great message in this movie.

But this is the message I got: "White racist man is the only one who can save the hapless bad Asian actors from themselves, revealing that white racist guys are truly just awesome Americans underneath...so we shouldn't really take their racist verbal attacks so seriously. In fact, these racists are more like Jesus in disguise. So let's give them a big hug instead."

[Batutta]

I think I can guess what you saw as the great message in this movie.

But this is the message I got: "White racist man is the only one who can save the hapless bad Asian actors from themselves, revealing that white racist guys are truly just awesome Americans underneath...so we shouldn't really take their racist verbal attacks so seriously. In fact, these racists are more like Jesus in disguise. So let's give them a big hug instead."

I think that's a gross superficial reading of what the film was about. What I saw was a racist guy who based his feelings on nothing but xenophobia, and when he truly got to know the people discovered they were more honorable, hard working and selfless than people of his own race (specifically his children), and more deserving of his respect.

[spidey]

yup. he just used racist remarks as a defense mech for himself..

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

I think I can guess what you saw as the great message in this movie.

But this is the message I got: "White racist man is the only one who can save the hapless bad Asian actors from themselves, revealing that white racist guys are truly just awesome Americans underneath...so we shouldn't really take their racist verbal attacks so seriously. In fact, these racists are more like Jesus in disguise. So let's give them a big hug instead."
I don't think so.


I think that's a gross superficial reading of what the film was about. What I saw was a racist guy who based his feelings on nothing but xenophobia, and when he truly got to know the people discovered they were more honorable, hard working and selfless than people of his own race (specifically his children), and more deserving of his respect.
Exactly! His WHITE kids came off really badly in this film. Even the other white kid who was walking home with her came off as a complete coward.

He didn't sugar coat much of anything in this movie and he let just about everyone have it.

MAH

[sean90291]

I think that's a gross superficial reading of what the film was about. What I saw was a racist guy who based his feelings on nothing but xenophobia, and when he truly got to know the people discovered they were more honorable, hard working and selfless than people of his own race (specifically his children), and more deserving of his respect.

Exactly. I found the film grossly superficial, without a very smart understanding of the mixed messages under the sledge-hammer it tried to use to say "racism is bad." I still think it glorifies that type of guy. Clint nailed the character. I just wish the writing and directing had delivered the story with more nuance and intelligence. I'm not the only one who came out and had this mixed reaction to the weird messages of the film. Many people are finding it problematic. For example, as written in the Huffington Post article (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/disgrasian/on-igran-torinoi-and-chri_b_155753.html)...by an Asian guy:

SPOILERS!!!!!

"The Big White Dude saves the Little Yellow Dude not through violence, but through pacifism and sacrifice. He martyrs himself for the Little Yellow Dude (conveniently, the Big White Dude's also terminally ill, just so the audience, I suspect, doesn't think he's a total death-wishing lunatic). Just in case you missed that point, the Big White Dude is pumped full of bullets in the end, and falls dead to the ground in a crucifixion shape, his body, like Christ's, riddled with holes. And, you know, I gotta problem with that. Is this a movie or is this missionary work? Because I don't need to be converted. I don't need to be saved. I don't need to be shown the Way, the Truth, and the Life by another White Savior, thank you very much, amen. "


In the end, Clint's character reminds me of these interviews on the street the BBC did after Prince Harry said some pretty appalling racist things caught on tape, and some old white British dude says "I think the media is blowing the comments all out of proportion." Clint's movie sorta says the same thing--that saying such things isn't really that important, because underneath this guy is really a good person. Right up to the end he's using the worst racist epithets they can conjure up. I think it all feels like it was written and directed by a high school student assigned to do a project on racism.

[Batutta]

Exactly. I found the film grossly superficial, without a very smart understanding of the mixed messages under the sledge-hammer it tried to use to say "racism is bad." I still think it glorifies that type of guy. Clint nailed the character. I just wish the writing and directing had delivered the story with more nuance and intelligence. I'm not the only one who came out and had this mixed reaction to the weird messages of the film. Many people are finding it problematic. For example, as written in the Huffington Post article (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/disgrasian/on-igran-torinoi-and-chri_b_155753.html)...by an Asian guy:

SPOILERS!!!!!

"The Big White Dude saves the Little Yellow Dude not through violence, but through pacifism and sacrifice. He martyrs himself for the Little Yellow Dude (conveniently, the Big White Dude's also terminally ill, just so the audience, I suspect, doesn't think he's a total death-wishing lunatic). Just in case you missed that point, the Big White Dude is pumped full of bullets in the end, and falls dead to the ground in a crucifixion shape, his body, like Christ's, riddled with holes. And, you know, I gotta problem with that. Is this a movie or is this missionary work? Because I don't need to be converted. I don't need to be saved. I don't need to be shown the Way, the Truth, and the Life by another White Savior, thank you very much, amen. "


In the end, Clint's character reminds me of these interviews on the street the BBC did after Prince Harry said some pretty appalling racist things caught on tape, and some old white British dude says "I think the media is blowing the comments all out of proportion." Clint's movie sorta says the same thing--that saying such things isn't really that important, because underneath this guy is really a good person. Right up to the end he's using the worst racist epithets they can conjure up. I think it all feels like it was written and directed by a high school student assigned to do a project on racism.

I think you're missing the point that Clint's character is changed by the circumstances and gets past his prejudices to embrace these people...Also, I was a minority growing up in a very white suburb, and I learned early on that there is a difference between true racism, and juvenile teasing that is just about putting people down. I had brown skin and an afro, so that was my target. But that is different than actively supressing other people from enjoying the freedoms that every one is entitled to through violence or abuse of power. Clint's racism in this film is just a more caustic form of juvenile teasing. If you notice, he didn't treat his white friend the Barber any better. His is the sort of casual prejudice you'll find everywhere, that when confronted with reality, as Clint is in this film, is easily broken down...I think the film is far from perfect (bad acting, and an ending one can see a mile away), but I think calling the film an endorsement of racist behavior is entirely missing the point. The film is told from Clint's point of view. He undergoes the change toward acceptance. Yes, it's another story about a white man saving someone of another race, but it was made by white people and let's face it, FOR white people, so it's only fair to judge the story on what it was trying to do, not what it SHOULD do.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

SPOILERS!!!!!

"The Big White Dude saves the Little Yellow Dude not through violence, but through pacifism and sacrifice. He martyrs himself for the Little Yellow Dude (conveniently, the Big White Dude's also terminally ill, just so the audience, I suspect, doesn't think he's a total death-wishing lunatic). Just in case you missed that point, the Big White Dude is pumped full of bullets in the end, and falls dead to the ground in a crucifixion shape, his body, like Christ's, riddled with holes. And, you know, I gotta problem with that. Is this a movie or is this missionary work? Because I don't need to be converted. I don't need to be saved. I don't need to be shown the Way, the Truth, and the Life by another White Savior, thank you very much, amen. "



I find that review completely absurd. It's like I watched a completely different movie. :huh:

[Billy Pilgrim]

I thought this movie was kind of silly. But very entertaining.

[sean90291]

I think you're missing the point that Clint's character is changed by the circumstances and gets past his prejudices to embrace these people...Also, I was a minority growing up in a very white suburb, and I learned early on that there is a difference between true racism, and juvenile teasing that is just about putting people down. I had brown skin and an afro, so that was my target. ...If you notice, he didn't treat his white friend the Barber any better. His is the sort of casual prejudice you'll find everywhere, that when confronted with reality, as Clint is in this film, is easily broken down...

I totally do get the point of the movie--or at least the point it so artlessly hammers home. Yes, the intended point is painfully obvious. It's the unintended point I don't like as much.

I'm curious, do you think the racist banter between the barber and Walt is acceptable? I mean, if it wasn't Clint (a hero) and wasn't a movie, and you heard people talking that way, what would be your reaction?

If you say it's a bad thing, well, that isn't what the movie is saying. The movie--that scene especially--says it's actually cute and funny and that's how American men talk. Especially heroes. Even Sue, the Asian girl, just giggles when Walt calls her a gook. It's weird.

If you say that kind of conversation is a good thing, or it doesn't matter, especially as a visible minority, then...I guess as a less visible minority I don't agree. I don't think it's funny in real life or cute.

(This is NOT to say that Walt's character can't be a funny racist, as we laugh at how out of touch he is. That is not what I'm saying. Walt did make me laugh! I'm saying the message behind a lot of the scenes and the movie itself is really out of touch too. Walt was a great character. The movie just missed the ball at almost every swing, and ends up reinforcing a lot of the damaging ideas that it's trying to dispel.)

[Batutta]

I'm curious, do you think that the racist banter between the barber and Walt is acceptable? I mean, if it wasn't Clint (a hero) and wasn't a movie, and you walked in and heard people talking that way, what would be your reaction?

I actually have a friend, a female comedian, who grew up on the streets of Philly in gangs and says racist things constantly. I just shake my head because I know none of it is real racism, it's just juvenille put downs, and she always treats me and other individuals with respect. But if some anonymous Asian person cuts her off in traffic, you'll hear the foulest stream of racial epithets you've ever heard...I personally find it heroic that Clint was able to overcome his superficial prejudices to embrace this family in the end. Again, you are acting like his character in the film is static, and that WE come to understand him, but it is HE who understands them and changes.

[sean90291]

Let me say that I would like to rewrite this scene:

When Walt "rescues" Sue from the evil black gang members about to gang rape her, Walt tells her to get in the truck. She has the good sense to do so, and then as Clint drives her away, and tells her that he thought gooks had more sense than that, well, I'd write it so that Sue went ballistic on him. She should melt down and try to claw his damn eyes out. She's just come out of a situation where her life was basically threatened. A racist situation, and she gets in the truck with this total a-hole and he calls her more racist things, and I think she should lose it. The way it's written, she smiles and giggles at it. Where does he even have the need to change his racism when he still treats her that way and she doesn't mind, and we the audience laugh.

And as a character, he's already "changed" by this point. Like an After School Special, all he needed was to have a bar-b-que with the Asians and he sees they're totally cool gooks after all. So what's the rest of the movie about?

And I don't think your comedienne friend is cool shouting racist slurs in traffic either.

[Batutta]

And I don't think your comedienne friend is cool shouting racist slurs in traffic either.

Did I say she was cool because of it?...All I'm saying is her flaws aren't worth pushing her away for, as I know she's a decent person at heart. She just had an upbringing that's ingrained that language and those attitudes into her. She tries to behave herself but in certain situations it comes out...Anyway, this is the problem I have with political correctness. It assumes that words themselves are inherently bad, when it's the intent and actions behind the people saying them that really matters. Clint's words in this film may be racist, but his actions are not, and isn't that what really counts?...And I actually find the way the scene with the girl as written is more believable than the way you'd write it. He did just SAVE HER FROM BEING RAPED, so I think she'd give him some leeway! If he was a real racist he would have left her to the wolves.

[spidey]

in asian culture you respect elders more than anything. her ability to befriend him as a elder is important and she has interest in him anyway, more than his own family. its like when you gp say something slightly offensive, do you correct them or nod it off?

[ESTEBEVERDE]

I think I can guess what you saw as the great message in this movie.
...

How?

You are so presumptive to know me or to pretend to know the slightest thing on this Earth about my Cultural Perspective or Ethnicity?

I think there is a word that can be used for that... stereotyping.



...

But this is the message I got: "White racist man is the only one who can save the hapless bad Asian actors from themselves, revealing that white racist guys are truly just awesome Americans underneath...so we shouldn't really take their racist verbal attacks so seriously. In fact, these racists are more like Jesus in disguise. So let's give them a big hug instead."

Glad that you gave it a little thought and I do appreciate that's the message you "got".

I would still say again:

"Great Movie!....great message that has great meaning to both the affected communities and the community at large."


To expand for your edification:

The affected community was two fold.

First the "White" Flighters who left because of economic depression and recession and to a much lesser degree as a knee jerk reaction to desegregation.

Second the Hmong immigrants and their first and second generation American children.


The Greater Community was everyone else collectively.



1. I would argue that on the whole it was the Hmong neighbors who saved and brought meaning back to Walt Kowalski. Not the other way around.

The hospitality that the other neighbors and their family and friends showed Walt went a long way to this end as well. Let's call them Yum Yum et al if you will.

2. I don't think Walt Kowalski was racist so much as a crotchety old bigot. Big difference however subtle it might be.

3. If you watched the film attentively you would see that the older generation was portrayed as being loyal to the values of hard work, freedom and responsibility, and that the younger female generation was following along the same route. By contrast the younger male generation in large part was indeed portrayed as being in disarray and statistically likely to be aimless and not engaged in constructive behavior. In fact, they were portrayed as being headed down the path of self destruction and taking those in their communities with them. This was Universal across all the Ethnicities within the larger Community as a whole.

4. Walt was an antihero while Sue Lor was actually a text book classic heroine. Her brother Thao Vang Lor was the conflicted lost soul on a quest who eventually becomes a hero.

5. The "racial" ribbing that Walt gives Barber Martin shows that this is nothing more than playing the dozens and that it is not an absolute sign of hostile racism. This same phenomenon is more than evident in places like the Hamakua Coast on the Big Island of Hawai'i where nary a "Whitey" even be.

It is racial but not so much racist.

6. Walt and his neighbors fall in love.

7. Grandmother is portrayed as every bit as tough as Walt and then some.

8. .....


I'll stop with the enumerating here as there is already so much for you to consider and digest.


I will say in summary by way of a brief recap that this story is a Love story between neighbors and friends and is a tale centered on how a community comes together to appreciate one another and take control of their destinies.


On one level these are two very divergent cultures blending and becoming a mosaic. There will of course be natural frictions and the fact that both cultures/ethnicities have a tradition of being strong and just a weeee bit outspoken will almost definitely ensure this is the case.

But both cultures are also very generous and kind and loyal.


It is in the end where Walt realizes these are the people he loves and he wants to have as "his" neighbors in their (collective) neighborhood.


He knows that if he kills the Hmong gangbangers that the violence will only beget more violence.


He comes to terms with this and concludes that his only true option is that of self sacrifice. He gives his life so that the gangbangers are doomed to years in prison and will no longer be able to harm Toad or his family.

He loves Toad so much he does this and bequeaths to him his most prized possession. The Gran Torino.

It is now as if Toad were his own son.


A bit more complicated than your knee jerk assessment but fairly simple to understand all the same.


I hope I did not come off as condescending (that's talking down to you).


I merely wanted to clarify the matter a bit and this was indeed the perfect opportunity to revisit the issue.

From Your Truest of Friends,

With My Sincerest and Warmest Regards,

Estebe

[ESTEBEVERDE]

I think you're missing the point that Clint's character is changed by the circumstances and gets past his prejudices to embrace these people...Also, I was a minority growing up in a very white suburb, and I learned early on that there is a difference between true racism, and juvenile teasing that is just about putting people down. I had brown skin and an afro, so that was my target. But that is different than actively supressing other people from enjoying the freedoms that every one is entitled to through violence or abuse of power. Clint's racism in this film is just a more caustic form of juvenile teasing. If you notice, he didn't treat his white friend the Barber any better. His is the sort of casual prejudice you'll find everywhere, that when confronted with reality, as Clint is in this film, is easily broken down...I think the film is far from perfect (bad acting, and an ending one can see a mile away), but I think calling the film an endorsement of racist behavior is entirely missing the point. The film is told from Clint's point of view. He undergoes the change toward acceptance. Yes, it's another story about a white man saving someone of another race, but it was made by white people and let's face it, FOR white people, so it's only fair to judge the story on what it was trying to do, not what it SHOULD do.


A+++++ :beer:

Solid analysis... for the most part! :beer:

[sean90291]

Estebe, I don't get your reaction at all. How could I stereotype you when I have no idea who you are, what your background is, whether you're male or female or intersex, straight, gay, Muslim or Atheist? We've never met and we're not Facebook friends.

As you never actually said what meaning you got from Gran Torino, then I could only say "I think I know what meaning you got." That is, it was my best guess that you took the main meaning Eastwood intended: an old racist guy learns that his anger and racism are wrong and he can atone for something he did in his past, etc. Clint would be happy to know that's pretty much the meaning Battuta got too.

The thing is, I got a different meaning. Or at least a mixed meaning, as someone else also expressed in The Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/disgrasian/on-igran-torinoi-and-chri_b_155753.html). Sort of how you seem to have taken a different meaning from one of my posts than I intended. Sort of demonstrating how ideas can have unwanted consequences, and why I have my reaction to some of the unintended themes in the movie. What I hoped to do was make some people think about this movie a little bit in the way I saw it, whether it convinces them or not. And because I love talking about movies, good and bad. Let me clarify this: the meaning I got from it is NOT what Clint thought I would get--for me, Clint screwed up big time and actually did some things so that the movie had the opposite effect he was going for.

There are more people you can add to your angry list in this Slash Film podcast (http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/01/20/filmcast-ep-34-gran-torino-guest-elisabeth-rappe-from-cinematical/) here. I just listened, and they also had a similar reaction to the movie as I did. It's possible--dare I say POSSIBLE--that the film is a bit divisive. That we all won't see it the same way or like it equally.

Oh, and I think those IndieWire film snobs put Gran Torino on their 10 Worst Films of the Year list, so I have no idea what you'll do to them. I'll warn them you're coming.

P.S. What's weird is, despite my disappointment and serious misgivings about the film, I did like parts of Gran Torino a lot. Especially Clint's performance.

[ESTEBEVERDE]

Estebe, I don't get your reaction at all. How could I stereotype you when I have no idea who you are, what your background is, whether you're male or female or intersex, straight, gay, Muslim or Atheist? We've never met and we're not Facebook friends.

....


You assumed something.

You attacked my review.

My values, sense, and sensibilities.

I will say this though in your favor. You do know about the term intersex and that does say something very positive about your exposure to diverse and divergent peoples.




...

As you never actually said what meaning you got from Gran Torino, then I could only say "I think I know what meaning you got." That is, it was my best guess that you took the main meaning Eastwood intended: an old racist guy learns that his anger and racism are wrong and he can atone for something he did in his past, etc. Clint would be happy to know that's pretty much the meaning Battuta got too......


If in the future you are unsure simply ask. If at all possible I would be more than happy to oblige and attempt to explain my position. I am thankful for your interest.

As to what Clint thought I would have to ask him next time he comes up to our neighborhood. If I get the chance.




...

The thing is, I got a different meaning. Or at least a mixed meaning, as someone else also expressed in The Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/disgrasian/on-igran-torinoi-and-chri_b_155753.html). Sort of how you seem to have taken a different meaning from one of my posts than I intended. Sort of demonstrating how ideas can have unwanted consequences, and why I have my reaction to some of the unintended themes in the movie. What I hoped to do was make some people think about this movie a little bit in the way I saw it, whether it convinces them or not. And because I love talking about movies, good and bad. Let me clarify this: the meaning I got from it is NOT what Clint thought I would get--for me, Clint screwed up big time and actually did some things so that the movie had the opposite effect he was going for.

....

I read their review. Those are very sweet and well meaning young ladies. They are are bright and have some spark but I completely disagree.


I am actually more interested in your personal opinion and on a very deeply personally level.

More so than those girls or any other online reviewer outside our circle for friends here in this very thread.




...

There are more people you can add to your angry list in this Slash Film podcast (http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/01/20/filmcast-ep-34-gran-torino-guest-elisabeth-rappe-from-cinematical/) here. I just listened, and they also had a similar reaction to the movie as I did. It's possible--dare I say POSSIBLE--that the film is a bit divisive. That we all won't see it the same way or like it equally.

Oh, and I think those IndieWire film snobs put Gran Torino on their 10 Worst Films of the Year list, so I have no idea what you'll do to them. I'll warn them you're coming.

....


More interested in your opinion and those of my friends here.




Estebe, I don't get your reaction at all. How could I stereotype you when I have no idea who you are, what your background is, whether you're male or female or intersex, straight, gay, Muslim or Atheist? We've never met and we're not Facebook friends.

....


You assumed something.

You attacked my review.

My values, sense, and sensibilities.

I will say this though in your favor. You do know about the term intersex and that does say something very positive about your exposure to diverse and divergent peoples.




...

As you never actually said what meaning you got from Gran Torino, then I could only say "I think I know what meaning you got." That is, it was my best guess that you took the main meaning Eastwood intended: an old racist guy learns that his anger and racism are wrong and he can atone for something he did in his past, etc. Clint would be happy to know that's pretty much the meaning Battuta got too......


If in the future you are unsure simply ask. If at all possible I would be more than happy to oblige and attempt to explain my position. I am thankful for your interest.

As to what Clint thought I would have to ask him next time he comes up to our neighborhood. If I get the chance.




...

The thing is, I got a different meaning. Or at least a mixed meaning, as someone else also expressed in The Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/disgrasian/on-igran-torinoi-and-chri_b_155753.html). Sort of how you seem to have taken a different meaning from one of my posts than I intended. Sort of demonstrating how ideas can have unwanted consequences, and why I have my reaction to some of the unintended themes in the movie. What I hoped to do was make some people think about this movie a little bit in the way I saw it, whether it convinces them or not. And because I love talking about movies, good and bad. Let me clarify this: the meaning I got from it is NOT what Clint thought I would get--for me, Clint screwed up big time and actually did some things so that the movie had the opposite effect he was going for.

....

I read their review. Those are very sweet and well meaning young ladies. They are are bright and have some spark but I completely disagree.


I am actually more interested in your personal opinion and on a very deeply personally level.

More so than those girls or any other online reviewer outside our circle for friends here in this very thread.




...

P.S. What's weird is, despite my disappointment and serious misgivings about the film, I did like parts of Gran Torino a lot. Especially Clint's performance.


I would in all seriousness like to thank you so much for your gracious reply.


Watching a film can mean many different things to many different people. Even as we grown and learn and simply change the same film can evolve in meaning.


Your points are well taken and appreciated even if they are not all shared.

:beer:

[CallaghanFilms]

What is portrayed in this film isn't racism...it's good old fashioned ball-breaking. It's the "Rat Pack" outlook. You break everyone's balls equally... You know, this guy for being Jewish, that guy for being black the other guy for being a Pollock, and that guy over there for being Italian. Meanwhile, they are all hurling "stupid drunken Irish" lines right back at you. Then at they end of the day, everyone shares a beer. (At least that was the school I came from.)

Believe it or not, there was a time before political correctness reared its ugly head.

Eastwood's character subscribes to a very classic American, yet very un-racist philosophy.

[sean90291]

Where did I attack your review Estebe? I didn't mean to.

Callaghan, I'm not attacking your review either. But the fact you don't see Walt Kawalski as a racist man is exactly why I have a problem with the film!

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Where did I attack your review Estebe? I didn't mean to.

Callaghan, I'm not attacking your review either. But the fact you don't see Walt Kawalski as a racist man is exactly why I have a problem with the film!

SPOILERS:


Regardless of how Walt started out, a racist man would not have given up his life for them.
You can't call him racist in one post and compare him to Jesus in another. :)


MAH

[sean90291]

But he started out as a racist man right? Callaghan says the film doesn't portray racism.

And it's Clint who refers to HIMSELF as Jesus in his closing shot. He's redeemed and redeemer. His racism cleansed by his selfless act of saving everyone else sorta thing... That's what the movie's sayin' in essence.

So I am most definitely calling Walt a racist man. And most definitely saying the film tries to annoint him Jesus in the finale.

It seems that Battuta, Callaghan and Horrigan all vote to say Walt was never a "racist" man. Again, that's my problem with the movie. I think that's the mixed message. And its failure. Frankly, it proves my point to me. So I can rest my case in my own mind. My fears are confirmed I suppose.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

It seems that Battuta, Callaghan and Horrigan all vote to say Walt was never a "racist" man. Again, that's my problem with the movie. I think that's the mixed message. And its failure. Frankly, it proves my point to me. So I can rest my case in my own mind. My fears are confirmed I suppose.This is what people are having a problem with. Don't put words in my mouth, I said...


Regardless of how Walt started out, a racist man would not have given up his life for them.
Don't twist my words. I simply stated that it doesn't matter, a racist man would not have done what he did. He wouldn't have done half the shit he had. In fact, he wouldn't have come out with a rifle to protect them in the first place.

Sorry, man. I don't play games like that. Have a nice day.

MAH

[sean90291]

This is what people are having a problem with. Don't put words in my mouth, I said...


Don't twist my words. I simply stated that it doesn't matter, a racist man would not have done what he did. He wouldn't have done half the shi* he had. In fact, he wouldn't have come out with a rifle to protect them in the first place.

Sorry, man. I don't play games like that. Have a nice day.

MAH

Everyone is so grumpy about me twisting words and I really don't think that's what I'm doing. I read what you typed, man. You said "a racist man would not have done what he did"...so then what...so he's racist or he's not? That to me is a sentence in English that says he's not racist. If you can't say anything more clearly than that, then I guess I have no idea what you're saying at all.

[ESTEBEVERDE]

But he started out as a racist man right? Callaghan says the film doesn't portray racism.

And it's Clint who refers to HIMSELF as Jesus in his closing shot. He's redeemed and redeemer. His racism cleansed by his selfless act of saving everyone else sorta thing... That's what the movie's sayin' in essence.

So I am most definitely calling Walt a racist man. And most definitely saying the film tries to annoint him Jesus in the finale.

It seems that Battuta, Callaghan and Horrigan all vote to say Walt was never a "racist" man. Again, that's my problem with the movie. I think that's the mixed message. And its failure. Frankly, it proves my point to me. So I can rest my case in my own mind. My fears are confirmed I suppose.



Me too... Walt was never racist only a crotchety old bigot....

It's all in the eyes of the beholder.

I just asked my entire group of friends who went if Callahan was a racist.

Just like that.

They all said no.

I think that you might have some sour grapes and/or some insecurity/ hypersensitivity going on.


I am not trying to be a dhick to you.

I like you and think you are very well spoken and intelligent.

I just disagree with you on your view of this film.

Oddly enough some of your descriptions about the film could be interpreted as hostile and "racist" towards blacks and whites.


But none the less I still love ya man! :beer:

[CallaghanFilms]

...I just asked my entire group of friends who went if Callahan was a racist...
Wait...Which Callaghan?
http://thecia.com.au/reviews/d/images/dirty-harry-2.jpg -or- http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3124/3155717033_86d72104f4_m.jpg
This One............................................... ........................................This One

?

[sean90291]

Huh? Anyhow, I'm out. It's turning into a school yard. I hoped to have a lively discussion about a movie. I really appreciated Battuta's point of view, even though it was different to mine. I appreciate Estebe extending an olive branch. But I don't even understand most of the responses. I fail to see a distinction between bigot and racist, etc. I clearly saw a different film than those who responded here, even though there are other people in the film world who had a similar reaction. I usually like to hear what dvxuser reactions are to movies, because it helps me decide which movies to go to. But it's pretty futile trying to speak seriously about film on a deeper level than two thumbs up. At least today. More like shock and awe war tactics to shut folks down. Seriously, I have no idea what you guys are even saying about the movie...except that you did like it. It will probably turn a tidy profit.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Everyone is so grumpy about me twisting words and I really don't think that's what I'm doing. I read what you typed, man. You said "a racist man would not have done what he did"
This is what I mean by twisting words. You misquoted me entirely. What I SAID was....

SPOILERS:
Regardless of how Walt started out, a racist man would not have given up his life for them.

MAHSee what you did there by removing my first line "Regardless of how Walt started out". You make it seem like I said something entirely different when in fact I'm open to the fact that he came off as a racist in the beginning.

Then you wrote this....



It seems that Battuta, Callaghan and Horrigan all vote to say Walt was never a "racist" man. .

I never said that. Hence the "Regardless of how Walt started out" part of my sentence that you chose to omit.

Clear now?

MAH

[ESTEBEVERDE]

Wait...Which Callaghan?
http://thecia.com.au/reviews/d/images/dirty-harry-2.jpg -or- http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3124/3155717033_86d72104f4_m.jpg
This One............................................... ........................................This One

?


The one on the right of course! :grin:

[ESTEBEVERDE]

Huh? Anyhow, I'm out. It's turning into a school yard. I hoped to have a lively discussion about a movie. I really appreciated Battuta's point of view, even though it was different to mine. I appreciate Estebe extending an olive branch. But I don't even understand most of the responses. I fail to see a distinction between bigot and racist, etc. I clearly saw a different film than those who responded here, even though there are other people in the film world who had a similar reaction. I usually like to hear what dvxuser reactions are to movies, because it helps me decide which movies to go to. But it's pretty futile trying to speak seriously about film on a deeper level than two thumbs up. At least today. More like shock and awe war tactics to shut folks down. Seriously, I have no idea what you guys are even saying about the movie...except that you did like it. It will probably turn a tidy profit.

All I can say is that you are a very decent person and I would love to chat with you in any thread anytime.

Sorry it's a bit prickly in here.

Just the nature of the subject I think.

While our views are 180 degrees off from one another I do appreciate your candor in sharing.

All the Best!

Sincerely,

Estebe

[Deepfocus88]

I agree with all of you.....Clint's still got it!

[Kangaskhan]

This was a great movie! One thing I like to do before I go out to the movies, is never watch any previews, read any reviews, or anything.

I like to keep the entire plot -- and sometimes even the GENRE -- mysterious so that when I walk into the theatre I have no idea what I'm in for.

I did that this time, and for Slumdog Millionare, both great movies, and it was a real blast. I suggest you try it :)

yes, I said movie, and not film. I just don't want to sound like a tool, sorry xd

[Donatas.Kaulinis]

This is such an incredible movie! Rarely does a film touch me like that. I just can't describe it in words. Sorry if this thread is old already, but I just had to say that. It easily beats lots of movies written by "big time" script writers. Lots of them sometimes look dull and dead to me. And THIS. This movie is..... there is no words for describing how incredible it is (ok, for me, it's a subjective view point, get over it). Maybie it only looks like that to me, because I have watched few really bad movies before this one. But I seriously doubt it. Thumbs up for this wonderful movie.

[btownproductions]

I thought it was a decent movie, I watched it a couple of times. But I didn't think it was all that most people are hyping it up to be... I'm not sure if people act like that just because it's Clint Eastwood, or what. I thought his acting was a little too "over-the-top" for me, it just didn't seem all that believable. He could have toned it down a little bit, and while it wouldn't have been as comicly stereotypical, I think it would have made his role a lot more believable as a "real" person. The story line, although fairly well executed, I felt was mainly a typical cookie-cutter redemption story.

All in all, I thought it was a somewhat entertaining, but in a lot of ways, dull movie. Would I watch it again? Probably. I may even end up getting it on dvd one day, but It's definitely not on my top movies list. (And when I first heard about this movie, I was really hoping it would be)

Just my 2 cents.

[KyleProhaska]

Watching this again as we speak. I think it's almost impossible to NOT crack up when Clint swears...

"how about I blow a hole in your face, and then I go inside and sleep like a baby...you can count on that."

*points gun* "shut your f'n face..."

"that old woman hates my a**"

I would be rolling had I been on set...

I don't understand all the negative comments I found back in this thread. I guess I let the racism part almost pass over me. It was a factor but never did I think of his sacrifice as the "white guy saves yellow guy." That kind of thinking is the exact problem when it comes to racism. What if it was just white people and he was some bitter old man instead? I think the sacrifice he made would have been not exactly the same but honorable all the same.

Where was his head at? He knew that the only way the kids would and that family would have peace in their lives is for him to do something about it...he made his choice and the a holes that deserved to went to jail...

[Gord.T]

I saw it last night.

Heavy on the dialog along the lines of Woody Allen. Not really anything happening in this one action or tension wise.
Well, in fact, nothing happening. Dialog driven.

I read about the hype but after watching it, I don't get it.
It was fine for watching a Dvd for relaxing.
Maybe a bit of a stretch for a feature film.
Well, no, a big stretch. A nothing film basically.

Unless you like Woody Allen type movies.
Didn't work for me but it killed an hour or so.

[Everts]

the only person that annoyed me was the preacher.... his acting...timing was off.

[tmnt]

Even though I like everything Eastwood does, I had no drive to see this movie. I did catch 20mins of it once and it seemed very much by the numbers.

Well I finally just watched it and although I think it wasn't anything groundbreaking, it was great. It's an example of how a story/subject done to death can still be absolutely great in the right hands.

Clint, you are the man.