Is the EX1 for me?

[arrestthisman]

Hello all. I'll make this simple. I need some sage advice from some of the great minds (or more importantly, experienced minds) from the forum:

I'm about to sell my HVX200. I do ALOT of low light photography, and the noise just made it unusable for me.

I love the look. I love the fact it is a higher bandwidth I-frame codec. I love that it has the 4:2:2 color space. (I do a lot of FX work.) But it's all academic if the noise is a showstopper for me.

So along comes the HPX170. Perfect, right? They tweak it for low light, better DR. Less noise. Drop the tape deck (which I never used). etc. I was all set to get one until the Wobble issue came up.

Now it's looking like the HPX has a noise issue as well. The noise no longer plagues the blacks, but the midtones instead.

Basically, if I'm going to jump ship, this is the time to do it. I don't like (in theory), the 4:2:0 long GOP codec, and the rolling shutter, but I think I hate the noise from the Panny cams worse.

I would miss that lush saturated "filmic" look. But again, it's academic if the footage is unusable.

Any advice from anyone would be greatly appreciated. This is a lot of money, needless to say, and I want to make the right choice. They don't make the choice easy do they?

I decided to post this here, because as a former Panny fan boy I know what wrath awaits those who would dare abandon the sacred pact with DVCPRO HD.

Thanks again.

[Stevet]

Jan has already reported they are working on the HPX170. If you're not in a hurry, wait for the fix. I know the noise levels are low on the HPX170. Although, I'm not sure if they are lower than the EX.

[hantanbl]

I have the EX1 with the latest 1.1 firmware. Basically there's lots of improvement done on the rolling shutter effect. I also use profile a lot and can achieve filmic look. The night footage is very clean even at -6db. You will not regret over EX1 decision especially there's alternative to use SDHC card. You can save a lot of money if you start new unlike the early adopter like me who forked out substantial $$ over SXS cards. Last but not least, if you want 4:2:2 output, EX1 can achieve that thru SDI output. Who knows, the future firmware might support that too.

[arrestthisman]

Both very good points.

I do love the SDHC memory option with the EX1. I didn't know that the rolling shutter has/can be improved with firmware updates. Is this true? (I thought only the RED could make drastic visual changes via firmware.)

Is there any real reason to believe that 4:2:2 (and possibly 50mbps) is possible on the EX1 via firmware? Or is that pure speculation? (Not to press, I'm just curious. If it's possible, I'd be very inclined to lean on the EX1.)

[Stevet]

I'm not convinced there is a improvement with rolling shutter artifacts with the EX1.
Maybe Jim Arthurs, who still may have some earlier skew tests can compare 1.1 now.

Also, the RED was only able to improve by 10%. If it was a software tweak, this would of been done from the start. CMOS Rolling shutter issues are a result of pixel refresh rate and how it reads in columns. This is a device problem and the reason we have these artifacts.

RED will be releasing a new sensor which is supposed to have minimal artifacts.
This technology will only improve over the next couple years.

[reem12]

If noise is an issue go with the hvx 200a. I've used this one myself and know for a fact the noise is no issue on this one.

I was recently in the same boat as you wavering between the 170 and the ex1, but wanted the ex1 to produce the same color and gama as the renowned panasonic, but to no avail, after all my searches on line day in and day out, and have heard countless people saying time again that you can match the color of the hvx. I have yet to find one clip from the ex1 that will match the color and gama of panasonic. Now for me, and can someone else elaborate on this alittle more, does the whites on the ex1 seem to be a little harsher then that of panasonics.

At this point the deciding factors for me to remaine in the panny camp were the motion of its 24p, its film like color and gama, and the organic images it produces over the ex1.

[arrestthisman]

Reem12: I totally agree with your assessment. The motion specifically. I love the panny color/motion. Maybe it's worth the noise. Maybe that's the price. Thanks all. Looks like I'll just wait out till the hpx170 issues are under control.

[Sumfun]

Is there any real reason to believe that 4:2:2 (and possibly 50mbps) is possible on the EX1 via firmware? Or is that pure speculation? (Not to press, I'm just curious. If it's possible, I'd be very inclined to lean on the EX1.)

Sony currently only offers the 4:2:2 50mbps codec on the PDW 700, and that camera doesn't do 24p. So I doubt they will/can offer it as a firmware upgrade on the EX1. Maybe on the next generation...

However, you can get the 4:2:2 50mbps now using an external recorder such as the Flash XDR or upcoming NanoFlash. These devices even offer i-frame only codec (no GOP) at 100 and 160mbps.

[arrestthisman]

that's cool. I'll have a look at the XDR. I hope it isn't a fortune tho.

[PerroneFord]

that's cool. I'll have a look at the XDR. I hope it isn't a fortune tho.

The Nanoflash will run about $3500. Just a bit more than 2 32GB P2 cards. But it offers recording onto cheaper solid state cards, intraframe recording ang 100 or 160 Mb recording at 1920x1080. The cheapest current solution to do this is the Wafian at $15k-$20k. So the Nanoflash looks like a bargain.

[arrestthisman]

Cineform is coming out with one that's going to be under 2Grand.

In a stunning turn of events, I've decided to go with the EX1. I've seen too many issues with the HPX170. And it's looking like the midtone noise is a real problem. It hasn't been improved enough, for me. I can always degrade the look in post. Sharpness is not a liability for me. It'll be nice to have a little extra DOF to work with.

Quite simply it comes to low light footage. I don't think I can trust panny anymore, for good low light. The EX1 seems to really excel there, and that's what I need.

Also, I'm looking at footage, and all of the rolling shutter/cmos/long GOP issues are, to me more theoretical than practicle. I don't do shakycam stuff. Almost all of my shooting is under controlled circumstancs. I hear the EX1 chroma keys fine in progressive. Also, CC'ing the footage, I can get the color exactly where I want, away from that bluish tint out of the box. (Although I've read that the endless tweakability of the cam allows this to be done incam.)