Real world comparison's HVX200-170? [Archive] - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

Shane Ross

10-15-2008, 12:32 PM

ONly difference between 200a and 170 is how far the lens can go when it goes WIDE. The 170 goes a hair wider than the 200a. Other than they, they are identical, quality wise. Same sensors, same encoders, same lens. The 170 has different features and connector types. Ability to show the image on the LCD upside down (for people who use Letus and Redrock), last clip delete option, full size firewire connection, HD SDI out, 3 HD filter settings instead of 2, no tape drive so 1 pound lighter...list goes on and on.

Now, the image quality differences between the 170 and 200 (not the 200a) are great.

justgottogetone

10-15-2008, 12:38 PM

if anybody has a hvx for sale with all the goodies i am willing to pay 4000 . i live in canada but i am working on getting an address in the us so you can ship it there .

David Saraceno

10-15-2008, 02:08 PM

Try the marketplace.

Several for sale there.

wgzn

10-15-2008, 02:56 PM

i havent had the opportunity to do a side by side test yet. but from what ive been shooting, the 170 sure seems head and shoulders better in low light than the 200 (not the 200a)

ChipG

10-15-2008, 03:07 PM

What are these 170 problems or issues?

cameralover

10-15-2008, 03:15 PM

Actually, judging by the number of people complaining about the "issue" a lot of cameras have been sold ;-)

honestly I don't think so. B&H who accepted purchases three weeks or so before it began shipping was never sold out. I think the interest in this camera was far less than expected largely because it did not live up to all of the pre hype and has fallen very short in its construction.

I think since the lens issue has surfaced, their have been many returns and a lot of potential buyers frozen in their tracks. This also coincides with the world market completely collapsing as well.

I'm glad I bought from B*H and was able to return the camera as mine was defective.

alexdias

10-15-2008, 04:16 PM

honestly I don't think so. B&H who accepted purchases three weeks or so before it began shipping was never sold out. I think the interest in this camera was far less than expected largely because it did not live up to all of the pre hype and has fallen very short in its construction.

I think since the lens issue has surfaced, their have been many returns and a lot of potential buyers frozen in their tracks. This also coincides with the world market completely collapsing as well.

I'm glad I bought from B*H and was able to return the camera as mine was defective.

Yeah, I have to agree.
A few months ago most people will wait weeks to get this camera, right now the resellers and Panasonic must be trying to figure out what to do with all these returns...

JPJ Studios

10-15-2008, 04:25 PM

Yeah, I have to agree.
A few months ago most people will wait weeks to get this camera, right now the resellers and Panasonic must be trying to figure out what to do with all these returns...

Ok, I haven't done enough research on this camera yet, but what defect are you guys referring to please?

ChipG

10-15-2008, 04:31 PM

Dunno, I'm trying to find out. Something with the lens? I have done several searches and can't find a thread.

Can someone post a link to the issue please?

Sneakle

10-15-2008, 05:12 PM

The thread is called HPX170 Show Stopper. It's the one with 590 posts

alexdias

10-15-2008, 05:12 PM

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=148822

It's long, but for a good understanding you should read most of it.

ChipG

10-15-2008, 05:17 PM

Thanks guys!

cameralover

10-16-2008, 07:11 AM

I have to say that I find it interesting that B&H is apparently not posting user reviews of the 170.

Pierre Petit

10-16-2008, 07:28 AM

How is the performance of the hpx for wide shots...like landscapes? Is it an improvement from the original hvx? Trying to figure out if its worth upgrading....

David Saraceno

10-16-2008, 10:16 AM

I have to say that I find it interesting that B&H is apparently not posting user reviews of the 170.

What inference do you draw from that?

There are reviews out there including a pretty darn good one by Adam Wilt.

aalleexx

10-16-2008, 10:27 AM

I must say personally that the lens issue stoped me and several people that I know from buying the 170, thank God that did not pull the trigger on pre ordering I had a funny feeling since I did that once with a car that turned out to be a lemon because it was completely redesigned, and I must say I am going to wait maybe till nab to see what other goodies are available, my clients are happy with hvx footie, plus I never ever shoot at night, just my .002:)

cameralover

10-16-2008, 11:15 AM

What inference do you draw from that? There are reviews out there including a pretty darn good one by Adam Wilt.

Based on the fact that I have tried to post a review twice to B&H's site in the last week and it hasn't shown up as of yet. There are no other reviews posted on there by other end users on BH's site. I do realize that it is a holiday right now as well so hopefully there will be some posted as potential buyers really do need some honest feedback about the camera BEFORE they make their purchase.

Also, I don't confuse thinly veiled PRs as reviews.

The comments posted by the end users only in the "showstopper" thread on this website is really the only REAL critical feedback that is out there right now on the internet, IMHO.

David Saraceno

10-16-2008, 11:25 AM

I've confused by your reference to "thinly veiled PRs as reviews."

Are you saying that Wilt's review of the 170 is a "thinly veiled PRs as reviews?"

Or is that incorrect?

scorsesefan

10-16-2008, 01:07 PM

I personally think that Adam Wilt is a pretty fair guy. I emailed him right after the whole "wigglegate" thing and he responded that he had not witnessed the defect on his test camera. He also emphasized that he had only tested "one camera"! He's a pretty sharp guy, but he's not clairvoyant.

atlfilmguy

10-16-2008, 04:00 PM

What are these 170 problems or issues?

As others have said , you can read all about it in the Show Stopper thread. Over 30000 views it is a big deal.

People are calling it Wigglegate.

Dino

10-16-2008, 04:08 PM

I started the "Show Stopper" thread and Adam came over to my place to see the wiggle on my HPX170. He is a straight up guy, does not favor any manufacturers over the other and has been nothing but generous with his time and knowledge to me. I would trust any review he wrote without hesitation.

alekan-H

10-16-2008, 04:33 PM

Don't buy the 170 until Panasonic fixes the camera. When that will be no one knows. You don't want to be stuck with a camera you can't shoot with.

wgzn

10-16-2008, 04:35 PM

i also have the "wobble" issue. buut not nearly as bad as some folks. in fact mine moves less than the specccomm repair moves. so im pretty pleased. i tested mine with my brevis+follow focus rig as well as just a standard rack focus and there was ZERO perceivable wobble in the image.

aside from nit-picky things here and there, my 170 performs SUPERBLY!

David Saraceno

10-16-2008, 04:54 PM

Don't buy the 170 until Panasonic fixes the camera. When that will be no one knows. You don't want to be stuck with a camera you can't shoot with.

We have the wiggle.

We have shot some great footage.

It doesn't affect every situation at all.

It is isolated to some specific situations.

But saying that you are stuck with camera you can't shoot with is hyperbole

ChipG

10-16-2008, 05:52 PM

As others have said , you can read all about it in the Show Stopper thread. Over 30000 views it is a big deal.

People are calling it Wigglegate.

Ha Ha Ha!

I read early in the thread somewhere about a potential cover up attempt.

Thats pretty funny. Wigglegate, Ha!

I have a feeling no one will ever doubt Dino again :)

puredrifting

10-16-2008, 10:07 PM

Unless I've missed it or it's buried so deep as to make me cross-eyed - do we have a general users' comparison thread? (people who've gone from 200 to 170s)

I've seen the odd comment, I just thought we would be inundated with topics.

I will take the slap if it's just me!

If you can wait until Sunday, October 26th, I will have a 32 page article that I am finishing up on this exact user experience you are requesting that will go live on www.kenstone.net Lest I be accused of being a fanboy, I do a full page and a half on the lens wobble issue.

Personally, my copy does not have the lens wobble issue and I feel that this issue has been blown out of proportion by a lot of overly dramatic reaction to it. I seem to recall that the EX1 had five separate initial shipping issues and while there was complaining, it seemed more in proportion than this single issue. If I were a buyer, the lens vignetting, focus issues, paint flaking, silk screening peeling off and IR miscalibration on the EX1 would have been a bigger issue that just the lens wobble on the 170, but that's just me.

Did Panasonic mess up? Yes, apparently. Will they address it on future shipments? Yes. Will they take care of everyone who bought one who is experiencing this issue? Yes. Can you order an HPX170 today and receive one that already has a Panasonic approved solution in place? Yes, call Andrew Hoffman at Spec Comm and order one and have him do the fix before he ships it. No reason to write off what looks to be a great camera because of widespread Internet panic. This business reminds me of the stock market lately, billions of dollars are being lost because of collective Lemming-like panic and misinformation.

It is an issue but not all of the cameras have it and it does not affect every shooting situation.

Dan

Stevet

10-16-2008, 10:37 PM

I seem to recall that the EX1 had five separate initial shipping issues and while there was complaining, it seemed more in proportion than this single issue. If I were a buyer, the lens vignetting, focus issues, paint flaking, silk screening peeling off and IR miscalibration on the EX1 would have been a bigger issue that just the lens wobble on the 170, but that's just me.

That's for sure!
The EX1 is a decent camera, but man, it took Sony close to ten months to get these issues sorted out!

atlfilmguy

10-16-2008, 11:23 PM

Dan,
I respect your posts.
I have been reading them for a while and have found some good info in them.

I do not really think there is as much hyperbole as you may think and certainly not any panic. There is a great deal of talk going on, maybe it appears to be panic just from the volume of posts. But most people are not claiming the sky is falling. Noone is abandoning Panasonic.

I and others have been posting about our desire to have panasonic pay for the return shipping for the repair that will surely come soon. Besides a small sampling of the huge show stopper thread, most of the posts are in line with the issue I think.

I tend to manually focus a lot so I am concerned, rightly, that my shots move laterally when I change focus. I am worried that this image shift will not be acceptable to my clients. I am scared that this otherwise great camera will cost me clients. I want to have confidence in my gear and have the HPX handle at least the same situations that the HVX can.

I understand that no camera can be good for every situation....

puredrifting

10-16-2008, 11:32 PM

Noone is abandoning Panasonic.

Hiya:

But that's the thing, I have seen several posts here and on several other sites that begin with, "I was going to order an HPX but since Wobblegate and the fact Panasonic has built a defective model, I am going with camera XYZ instead..."

That to me is mindless thinking inspired by hyperbole and panic. I do agree that this issue is a wildfire and the longer that Panasonic lets it go without dousing it with a solution that makes everyone happy, the more scorched earth (in the form of a bad reputation for the cam and Panasonic) it will leave. Our world of prosumer and professional camcorders is actually quite small and rumors and misinformation travel very quickly. Although if the EX1 story is any indicator, once the issue is addressed, it will blow over very quickly. While the Sony had all of those issues, you have hardly heard a peep about them for the past few months.

But whatever. I have the HPX170, have been shooting with it and writing about it and it is a great camera. I guess I will just have to leave the controversy to Panasonic.

Best,

Dan

David Saraceno

10-17-2008, 09:20 AM

Dan:

You can't account for every knee jerk reaction. We also have wobble/wiggle, but we are still using the cam, because our current shoots don't require the situation where it is accentuated.

But I think the reaction here at least has been reserved, calm and within reason, generally patient.

Looking forward to your article at ken's site.

puredrifting

10-17-2008, 10:40 AM

I'll post the link when it goes live. Shooting photography and doing screen grabs this weekend.

Thanks,

Dan

ROne

10-17-2008, 11:44 AM

If you can wait until Sunday, October 26th, I will have a 32 page article that I am finishing up on this exact user experience you are requesting that will go live on www.kenstone.net (http://www.kenstone.net) Lest I be accused of being a fanboy, I do a full page and a half on the lens wiggle issue.

Dan

Thanks, that will be useful.

Barry_Green

10-17-2008, 12:28 PM

I just finished a three-day shoot with my 170, its maiden voyage. We used the Letus Ultimate on it. Timur Civan was the director of photography, and I'll let him speak for his own views on the 170, but my 200 is being sold today. The 170 is a massively wonderful upgrade to an already great camera. We had a 200 there at the same time that we were considering using for b footage, and I think we did actually use it for one dolly/zoom shot. But frankly there's no comparison, the 170 excels in every imaginable way over the original 200. The 200A is a better match to it, but the 170 spanks the original HVX200.

Does the lens wiggle? On mine, yes. Will it be fixed? I'm certain it will be. Is it a "showstopper"? Don't make me laugh. To me it is a minor inconvenience, and Panasonic's already said that they will "make it right." Your mileage may vary, but I find it pretty minor, and with a properly-mounted lens adapter it is absolutely unquestionably and without a doubt a complete non-issue. Without the lens adapter, yeah, it needs to be fixed, but with the adapter it's completely irrelevant.

So - for the original poster who asked for 200 vs. 170, I've used the 200 since December 2005. I actually got mine in December, I think it's serial number 32. And I have absolutely no regrets in sending it out the door today to make room for the 170. The 170 has so many nice little workflow improvements, is ergonomically so superior, and the image is a lot nicer. It's creamier, it's cleaner, it's more sensitive, it's better. No regrets, not a hint of a tinge of regret in upgrading to the 170 from the 200.

10-17-2008, 12:36 PM

Barry, I feel EXACTLY the same way! :thumbsup:

I've been having a hard time selling my HVX200 at the price I want for it but I think that has a lot to do with the current economic climate of the world. However, I just recently found a buyer and "the check is in the mail." Well, at least a very hefty deposit to hold it until she can come up with the balance next month. :)

reem12

10-17-2008, 04:58 PM

Thanks barry for this informed review. I'm sold now and trust your judgement.

How much better do you like te ultimate over the extreme.

And if I order my hpx this week do you think i'll get a properly working one?

puredrifting

10-17-2008, 06:32 PM

And if I order my hpx this week do you think i'll get a properly working one?

If you order from Spec Comm and ask them to do the fix before they ship it, you will definitely get a proper working one. If you order from anyone else, perhaps? My camera and a few others don't seem to have the wobble but a lot of them do if the threads here are any judge of that.

The next batch from Panasonic wasn't due till the end of this month so I doubt you would get a new one with a factory fix unless you wait at least a few weeks or possibly months.

Dan

10-17-2008, 06:53 PM

Also, because of the "wobble" issue, I wouldn't be surprised if the next batch of HPX170 cameras don't ship until next month or even later. Pure speculation on my part.

puredrifting

10-17-2008, 09:21 PM

DC:

I think a good guess. I can't see how they could have already implemented a fix on the assembly line when they haven't even discovered how far the problem extends to and what their fix will be yet.

Dan

Dino

10-17-2008, 11:46 PM

According to Jan, the HPX170 and variants have halted production and shipping worldwide. I guess to some that is considered a "non-issue", certainly not a "show stopper", merely an "inconvenience".

ROne

10-18-2008, 03:36 AM

So - for the original poster who asked for 200 vs. 170, I've used the 200 since December 2005. I actually got mine in December, I think it's serial number 32. And I have absolutely no regrets in sending it out the door today to make room for the 170. The 170 has so many nice little workflow improvements, is ergonomically so superior, and the image is a lot nicer. It's creamier, it's cleaner, it's more sensitive, it's better. No regrets, not a hint of a tinge of regret in upgrading to the 170 from the 200.

Great, thanks - just what I wanted to hear.

It's very cheap over here in the UK.

For anyone who owns one - are they still making them in Japan?