heli shots from hpx170 last monday.

[jetaddiction@mac.com]

here are some hpx170 shots in a 4 min piece that i just had put up on my web site .it was shoot at 80mph hanging out the side of a astar. was 2 gb and took a week to get my editer to compress and post it. shot at 60 fps/30p720 timeline , has not been smoothcamed yet. cool music is from a dvxuser ,justin ewart. it is vancouver island. canada. go to www.jetaddiction.com go to movie page,click on the seaplane. will be up in 10 min.

[Joseph Stunzi]

What Gyros are you using?

[thekreative]

Hey great stuff. Nice to see footage that looks like home.

[DM_rider]

beautiful images, that footage looked great.

[jetaddiction@mac.com]

i have a ken lab ks-8 gyro mounted on ashoulder mount.

[Joseph Stunzi]

What does that feel like? How exactly do these Ken Labs KS-8 Gyro's work? Does it balance out with the camera? I'm just learning about gyros myself.

[flnstudios]

That was great footage.

Hanging out the side at 80 mph sounds like fun, who needs a stinkin' roller coaster!

[puredrifting]

Kick-ass footage Jet. Thanks for sharing.

Dan

[ian lucero]

wow man nice images. so smooth and clear. and clean.

[jetaddiction@mac.com]

bump

[Joseph Stunzi]

you seriously just bumped this? I think it's a hot topic as it is.

Can you explain how these Gyro's work? How did you setup your rig? Any pictures?

[jetaddiction@mac.com]

the pics of the rig ( not very good ones ) on the front of the web page. shot from the back. the yellow box is the power inverter and it is waterproof. runs on any 12v battery, takes about 5 min to spin up. i had it on the horisontal axis for this shoot, . looking to get another to mount under the box at the back . but this hpx170 is so light one ks8 worked great. i ran off 12v plug of the heli for this set up.

[Joseph Stunzi]

So you just screw one of these KS8 gyros onto the HPX170 and go?

[jetaddiction@mac.com]

you can ,but i mount both the gyro and the camera to the shoulder mount. i have 3x4 inch 12v battery that can be mounted under the yellow box , the work as acounter balance as well.

[USLatin]

Again, great footy Jet!!

It looks like one ks-8 gyro is perfect for the 170, though I would love to see it on a 60fps timeline just to get a feel for just how smooth it is for real time playback. I would really appreciate it when you got a chance and if you feel like going though the trouble.

Again, it is spectacular stuff... I will be shooting similar landscape stuff, though it will be MUCH lower hills, and it will all be covered in a heavy blanket of snow. Also we are going to shoot with an adapter so I am wondering what to do.

I called up the guys at Tyler who now have a new toy called the "Mini Gyro". It rents for $480 a day with two batteries that give you about 1 1/2 hs of operation each, though they want you to run the gyros for "20 minutes before operation" to get them up to speed. I didn't expect that. It is tough looking enclosure with two big gyros that they rate for cameras up to 40lbs. It comes with a shock absorber which clicks in at the bottom or can be removed if you prefer. This shock (much like a shock from the suspension of a car) allows you to just go and place it wherever you want, or go hand-held if you think your guns are big enough to carry that thing. It rents for about 1/2 of what their side mount rents for, and you need no set-up time.

So... I was wondering if maybe the price of those KS-8s is low enough and we could try to purchase one. We coudl also use it on the steadycam, but only for specialty shots since we wouldn't be getting a ton of batteries. And for the helicopter stuff we could rent a second KS-8... that would make it a combined rating of 16-24lbs... Not the 40lbs that Tyler rates their Mini Gyro for, but it is something to consider! I wonder how much the KS-12 is..? The 12 is rated to be "4 times stronger than the KS-8" which comes out to 32-44lbs! Which makes their rating of the 12 the same as Tyler's rating of their Mini Gyro... But I am guessing that if you are going to buy Gyros you might want to go with KS-8's like Jet did which gives you a ton more options and flexibility than having such a heavy beast that you are stuck with. For a steady cam I'd go with a KS-8 regardless of weight... yes, more is great, but do you want to get murdered by the op when his knees explode? lol...

[jetaddiction@mac.com]

find out what power it runs on . hook into the heli power if you can . the lighter the better for the small gas heli. to go to the hassle of the steady cam arm ,the problem is how to mount it and get the arm up high enough to ,so when loaded it is still shoulder high. hanging a bungy cord works way easyer. if you have some something directly above. we had a little dome light that we took out ,was about a 1 in hole with 4 small screw holes . we popped it out and made a great mounting spot. do a test . see what you can do witha shoulder mount/bungy/ without the gyro. just atake off and land. gyros are heavy. being able to sit comfortably make a big difference .

[jetaddiction@mac.com]

ken lab gyros rock!!!

[USLatin]

About the steady cam I meant for normal steady cam use, for other scenes and shots.

I already asked the pilot and he told me the bungies will have tons of places to hook into so that is high up on my list.

HOLY CRAP!!! I just found the darn prices! What the hell...
http://www.ken-lab.com/html/pricing.html

Forget what I said about buying these... geeeez... lol

Did you rent yours Jet or did you made the investment?
I'd love to find out where you rented it thats what you did.

EDIT: Here is their own rental rates page
http://www.ken-lab.com/html/rentals.html

[USLatin]

So... Tyler's "Mini" Gyro is $480 for a weekend, or we could rent one KS-8 for a month for $270 more... and use that for all out steady cam shots! Then I could ask for a second one for a week or make some sort of deal where I can get one for a month and two for 2 weeks at a slightly discounted rate...

...also hear me out on this crazy idea for the heli:

If I had two KS-8's, I could hook the bungees on the rails of the rig (safely of course) and hang it upside down! We won't be using a flip on the adapter so all I have to do is un-select the flip option on the camera and Carrion monitor.... lol... what would I use to mount the second gyro though? I would need some sort of mount from Zacuto I guess.

Has anyone mounted two gyros on their 15mm rail setups?

[jetaddiction@mac.com]

steadicam shots with gyro don,t ussually work for reg steadicam shots ,walking , turning ,stopping starting .all these moves the steadicam will fight against it. . but put that set up in the back of a pickup truck ,using the steadicam as shock absorber and a gyro to keep pointed at one point in space. have tryed it all and figured it out the differences. gyro fight pans and tilts , but once it is panning it will fight to stay panning.a balanced steady cams don,t have the forces great for bobbing and weaving ,stopping and starting, can be pointed easilly .

[jetaddiction@mac.com]

ok . one gyro would be mounted horizontally and the other would be in line with the lens, shoulder mount with enough space for you prime lens adapter. upside down monitor might be a better way to go. wind is a factor. i rent my ks8 as well . camera hvx200?

[USLatin]

So gyros help to smooth out the moves on steady cam shots. I am not saying it is fun to carry them around, but they do add to the feel of the steady footage. I guess we should say "modify" instead of "add". It is more work to get it going and to stop, same deal but different slower smoother feel.

There certainly is an application for it, I mean why would people use gyros on steadys in big budget projects?

You really got me thinking about this one now, I left a message with a friend of mine to get his take on this to add to the conversation. Though I don't want to veer this thread too much off topic, unless you are game for it.

[USLatin]

ok . one gyro would be mounted horizontally and the other would be in line with the lens, shoulder mount with enough space for you prime lens adapter. upside down monitor might be a better way to go. wind is a factor. i rent my ks8 as well . camera hvx200?

Yea, but I mean where would you screw them onto?

The camera will be a 170 or a 200a, SGblade, and big bulky heavy primes. The monitor a Carrion but I was thinking about mounting it off the rig on the dash of the heli somewhere if that worked out.

[jetaddiction@mac.com]

most big budgets don,t use both at the same time. only certain times using both work well. mostly not. the lighter the better , a hpx 170 has a flip so that is the best . 2 x ks8 should be plenty for that set up. you just need a shoulder mount to bolt everything to. like mine ( that is for rent) like my hpx170(thats for rent) and my upgraded flip hard mounted redrock m2 (also for rent) all my nikor primes ,28mm,35mm,55mm, 85mm,135mm . as well as my ks8 gyro for rent. i won,t be under sold!!!!64 gb of p2 as well. i am also for rent!!

[Arrik]

and his uber self-marketing skillz.....THATS FOR RENT!!!

[jetaddiction@mac.com]

your shot close in on a man falling through ice then reveal his aloneness. i would shoot with a 1.6 or 2x tel and max tele .frameas steady and as close as you can . when he is through the ice and fighting have the heli pull straight up and at 50ft or so zoom back med speed. (use the top zoom controler). set up the shot again and take off the same again with out the tele. start to zoom back at 100 ft. (use top controller) .witha little edit split and reframing in edit. you might get a way faster smother reveal of how srcewed this guy is. the heilcopter along will take to long ,and just speeding it up will look fake , just a idea. the combo of shallow depth of field because of the tele and shooting at or max irus (nd 4x4 filter down) to get everything with out the adapter. to get even cooler start on a ladder with adapter shooting down / matched to same frame to heli,s first frame . blend it all togeather and whalla!!!

[USLatin]

Yea, that is a great is a, but I hate zooming cause of how much bad movies have used zooming and how much people will tend to associate it with yours being like those, subliminally. Especially at the start of a movie. You made a great point though... speed... might want to shoot it at 22fps and ask him to struggle a tad slower. We will have a 20-something ft. crane available, so I imagine the 18mm at closest focal distance craned up and away will do just fine. No need to speed that up though... in fact might want to go for the opposite to give it a smoother feeling, larger than life feeling. After all this is honestly less of a horror and more of a psychological thriller meets reunion spring-break meets horror... I have had a hard time figuring out what to tag it... but for all distribution purposes I will sell it as a horror and see where that takes me. At least for now till I meet with my producer that knows more about that aspect.
Don't get me wrong... I would love to have a zoom if I was making a straight up horror flick... cause imo if that's what you are doing then you will end up getting associated with classic old horrors that used zooming and that is not a bad thing... maybe not with the younger people cause they never saw those, but still... as you point out, a slow servo zoom set to slow or possibly medium will be great, imo the fast speed would be too cliche, though it would be cool to make it desaturate at the same time ending upin B&W as a tribute... :)

lol... you are getting me to think about things I wasn't going to think about... that always helps you find the voice for the project. :thumbsup:


About the steady+Gyro, yea, most never gyro their steadys... but most have killer steady ops :) I am not saying that I am sold on it, but I am exited to hear more about it, and more than anything test it out myself cause I will likely be doing a lot of theady myself if I don't find a kid with experiece out there. We are hiring only a few experienced pros, 1st AD, DP, Gaffer, Key Grip, Boom Op, and then we are working with a film school and paying their students much less, they will also get credit. My Gaffer will operate camera, DP will pull focus... I might have to operate steady but we'll see about that. I know that for a few scenes it will help move fast so long as I get a great 1st AD to keep me and the set organized. Chances are I'll find a steady Op... let's hope I do.
So because of this my incstint is to want to cheat... for the steady, yea, I totally agree that one KS-8 will be plenty (which, btw, I'd love to rent from you if you can give me a better rate!!!).
I love that you think that for cars it will work well... so how do you think that the gyro on the steady will behave that makes you say no? Please be specific, I couldn't understand what you were saying.

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

Wow. Very impressive footage!

[jetaddiction@mac.com]

the combo of the heli and the top handle mechanical rate of zoom out slow .should just give the effect of the heli lifting off way faster. thats why you would wait till 100 ft be for the zoom back. wind from the heli might blow your actor about . another reason to use tele . further away less down wash.

[jetaddiction@mac.com]

will be shooting whistler and other snow capped peaks as soon as the weather agrees.

[Joseph Stunzi]

Dude. this is so cool!

[USLatin]

the combo of the heli and the top handle mechanical rate of zoom out slow .should just give the effect of the heli lifting off way faster. thats why you would wait till 100 ft be for the zoom back. wind from the heli might blow your actor about . another reason to use tele . further away less down wash.

I was thinking about the same thing but keep forgetting... we'll need to be far away for wind... we can't see it. I wonder if the 85 would be enough or if we'll need to get a longer lens like the Nikon 80-200mm which seems to be such an awesome lens anyway. 200mm should be plenty and color correcting to match will be a breeze... then again going bare might work fine if the SGblade's new GG which is supposed to be grainless... it shouldn't be as big of a difference as it would if we were using their original GG.

You basically sold the zoom out, the slowest one probably... but now I am worried about the initial jerk when you begin the zoom which will liekly be the same as on the 200... it is quite imperceptible, but that shot really depends on being smooth. At least that's how I see it in my non-DoP head.



will be shooting whistler and other snow capped peaks as soon as the weather agrees.

Yea baby!! Can't wait! Show me some snow!
:Drogar-Love(DBG):

[jetaddiction@mac.com]

one thing to add might be a slow rotate as you pull back ,easier blend ,easier to frame ,if shooting almost straight down. just another way to make the reveal cool. what do you think? might fill the timing better.

[USLatin]

I think I see what you are saying... if it were stationary you would notice the imperfections while with a gentle rotation they wouldn't be as evident. Is that what you mean?

Also it would feel as if we, the audience, are also walking away, stepping away from him...

I wouldn't mind it at all man. Good idea! :thumbsup:

[jetaddiction@mac.com]

ya a really,really, slow rotation to a still end wide shot. your editor will love it. easier to transitions betteen different frames with your guy in a ice hole always in the center.

[USLatin]

I know he will love it... (it is me!) lol

BTW, I wrote it into the shooting script. :)