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Ruzo
10-03-2008, 03:09 PM
Hello everyone,
I'm mainly a music producer with a little photography & videography experience. I have a D90 and plan to use it for music videos. I needed some advice as to which LCD monitor I could use for better control of focus and DOF. I tried the Varizoom VZ-TFT-7 monitor which would be perfect but, since it's not HD, it's of no use to me. Since there are no HDMI to Component adapters because they are delared "illegal", I guess I'll need to find one with HDMI input? The best case scenario would be to find an HD capable & mountable 7" monitor with HDMI input at a sensible price :)

Ruzo
10-03-2008, 04:51 PM
Found this one:

http://www.ikancorp.com/pages/monitors/V8000hdmi/index.htm

It might be a little too heavy to mount on the D90 but seems to be compatible with it:

http://www.ikancorp.com/images/monitors/V8000HDMI/hdmi_appl2.jpg

mhood
10-03-2008, 05:09 PM
If HDCP isn't a problem on the D90 output, you could convert the HDMI to HD component and that might be sharp enough to focus with. For str8 up monitoring, you could get a cheaper HDMI to composit/Svideo converter and use any of the many small LCD devices (portable DVD players included).

http://www.converters.tv/news/dual_hdmi_to_component_hd_converter_50.html

http://www.svideo.com/hdmi2svideo.html

This would be much easier if the D90 would pass the Live LCD through to the A/V output cable. Pass through has been a feature of video cameras for years.

timmytimetravel
10-04-2008, 10:23 AM
I personally have used this one with the D90. Its a Tote-vision 703HD

It works well, and is a good price for what it is.

I Use it with a short DVI>HDMI adapter, and a short mini-hdmi><hdmi adapter. The lcd on the back of the d90 does switch off in lv mode when plugged in, so be aware you wont be able to watch both at same time. You can by running composite, but cannot have both plugged in at the same time.
You should also be aware myself and a couple of others who have either been testing hdmi camera, or have it plugged into hdmi on a plasma or lcd tv experience random dropouts of hdmi.

In my experience once it's on, it stays on. But a drop out of lv mode (which is all the time), or a turn off/on of the camera will fail to re-handshake with any regularity. I have not tested it further.

So before you rely on it, it might be worth either doing some extensive hdmi testing, or starting a thread asking if people are having hdmi dropout issues. You could always try rely on it, and have a composite cable running as well ready to plug in if you have issues, but thats not really hd now is it :)

I also found the Zoom on the back of d90 (as in electronic zoom into a still photo type function) works well for getting focus before a shot. If its a moving shot, well thats another thing again...

I haven't tried a hdmi wireless transmitter yet to a focus puller (I am talking cheap consumer ones, not sdi microwave ones) to see if there is any lag. If not, that might be a great way to put a lens control on the side and have someone pull off a nice big hdmi lcd tv/plasma! :)


Cheers,

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/507053-REG/Tote_Vision_LCD_703HD_KIT_LCD_703HD_KIT_7_LCD_Fiel d.html

timmytimetravel
10-04-2008, 10:25 AM
This would be much easier if the D90 would pass the Live LCD through to the A/V output cable. Pass through has been a feature of video cameras for years.

If you mean the same as hdmi, It does as far as I am aware.... It worked to a composite in on my tote-vision.

mhood
10-04-2008, 11:13 AM
If you mean the same as hdmi, It does as far as I am aware.... It worked to a composite in on my tote-vision.
I had read that if you had the LCD on, the composite feed was disabled...that you had to switch out of Live LCD to activate the composite feed. If I misunderstood, then the composite output to a cheap portable DVD player would be gr8 for client monitoring during shooting from a tripod, wouldn't it?

I just checked it out and the A/V composite output doesn't feed a signal until the LCD is activated (either live LCD or for playback) and the LCD on the back of the camera DOES NOT switch off as has been reported for the HDMI feed. While composite probably isn't sharp enough for focus, it will make a nice video and audio feed to a client.

Ruzo
10-05-2008, 11:08 AM
Thanks for the replies!

mhood:
The Varizoom I tried did work through the composite output simultaneously with the Live LCD but the degradation of the image is so much so that it becomes almost impossible to judge the focus and DOF on it. Its cost, size and perfect fit with battery would have made it the best choice for me. I really regret not being able to use it. The HDMI to component idea could work but lack of mountability might be a problem for me. Having everything on the camera would be the best setup for me.

timmytimetravel:
The Tote-vision looks like a good option. One guy gave it a really bad review though! Did you actually experience dropouts with this particular one and the D90? Could it have been because of the adapter?
The zoom function of the D90 might work is some situations but the mounted LCD would have been much more help especially with my lack of experience.
Since I'll be filming overseas, it would be difficult to hire a focus puller and I don't think I could even afford one in the US ;)


Portability is the one advantage over a real production company that I wouldn't like to give up on. I should be leaving the US on Tuesday and I'm still searching for the right solution. I hoped to try the Ikan but it's not in stock in NY. I guess I'll be zooming my way through this project :(

buildyo
10-06-2008, 12:47 AM
It's not available yet, but looks quite interesting:

http://www.smallhd.com

Kwan
10-06-2008, 01:27 AM
http://www.smallhd.com

spec. sheets on this products has some power controllers

Ruzo
10-06-2008, 07:48 AM
Now that's what I'm talking about! Thanks for the link!
Even though I'm still not going to get it for this shoot but that gives me great hope for the future. Under a grand?...nice!

Pretty funny video too...

timmytimetravel
10-06-2008, 11:51 AM
Thanks for the replies!

timmytimetravel:
The Tote-vision looks like a good option. One guy gave it a really bad review though! Did you actually experience dropouts with this particular one and the D90? Could it have been because of the adapter?
The zoom function of the D90 might work is some situations but the mounted LCD would have been much more help especially with my lack of experience.
Since I'll be filming overseas, it would be difficult to hire a focus puller and I don't think I could even afford one in the US ;)



Here is the posts re dropouts (8,9,10) on this page, link top right for full thread. It really needs its own thread for more confirmations, not enough people really use it, and be nice if Nikon could fix it and it doesn't miss the first firmware.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=1413811&postcount=10

I haven't had any problems with the unit. It still comes down to (especially with the d90) what's portable. It screws in nicely with a noga arm to a tripod. It 720p, its color balanced, good in dayight, soft and hard hood accessories and soft bag avail, works off lion's or idx. (I mean lcd's chew juice, it needs a good multi battery situ).
It's really nice to drop an idx (vmount) in the back, and know I am getting MAX battery per weight for travel.

I wouldn't want to use it handheld. Figrig maybe.

Before I decided to try it I went looking for something like an archos, some kind of PSP with hdmi input. They are lighter for sure. But then shooting half the day, you have battery issues, and they are not color correct (may be less of issue). So I came back to something like the tote for price, quality, multi-battery and multi-battery type, system. Link me the bad review if you like, and I'll check out the complaints on mine...

alexandroff
12-02-2008, 06:41 PM
is it correct to say that
http://www.lcdracks.com/monitors/vr70phda.html
cannot be connected to the D90 without bulky extra converters?

or will this thing and adapter resolve it
http://cgi.ebay.com/27-5-HDMI-to-Y-Pb-Pr-or-RGB-to-HDMI-Male-Cable-0-77m_W0QQitemZ260318867049QQcmdZViewItem

Ruzo
12-03-2008, 08:44 AM
I don't know about the adapter but you can connect through the composite input but no HD.

These are the ones I found through my research:

http://www.manhattanlcd.com/category_s/23.htm (Used it / Works nicely / A bit fragile / Hi res / Need your own sun hood)

http://www.ikancorp.com/pages/monitors/V8000hdmi/index.htm (Did not use it / Should work / Looks better constructed. Lower res)

ilia
12-06-2008, 05:34 AM
Have anyone tried the HDfury HDMI->VGA converter with the D90? http://www.hdfury.com/
It's about 250$. It would be great if it worked since it's easy to get hold of small VGA displays.

alexandroff
12-17-2008, 09:05 PM
getting http://www.manhattanlcd.com/product_p/7003.htm
and
http://www.tekkeon.com/products-mypowerall.html to power it
for my d90

Park Edwards
12-17-2008, 09:18 PM
what are you guys looking for in a monitor? just resolution?
and can the d90 output a 720p image through composite?

alexandroff
12-17-2008, 09:21 PM
me (d90 setup):
- resolution
- better focus (hdmi vs SD stuff)
- ease for operator or AC under different conditions

Park Edwards
12-17-2008, 09:27 PM
no, i know why people want a monitor, but what makes a monitor a good monitor?

alexandroff
12-17-2008, 10:14 PM
oh ok: some things i thought of
- img quality
- that it displays as close to as camera records (no delays, drags, etc. unwanted flaws)
- lightweight, easily mountable
- true HD & now hdmi input (going forward more and more brands will add that, others may want additional inputs), choosing for d90 - ikan seemed like the only massed produced affordable option today.
- easy powering options

i only had ~$500 field monitor budget so went for manhattan LCD

Park Edwards
12-18-2008, 01:46 PM
i'm looking at monitor that has vga input and rca. it has resolution from 640x480 to 1024x768. 500:1 contrast ratio 30ms and 400 brightness. It's about $190 bux. Anything else I should look for? Will the d90's RCA output be good enough?

Park Edwards
12-18-2008, 03:12 PM
alright, tell me if this wont' work.

the d90 has mini hdmi..so i'm thinking this.

hdmi to mini hdmi connector
hdmi to dvi
dvi to vga

you think it will work?

alexandroff
12-18-2008, 03:30 PM
i tried connecting d90 (through its regular video out) to one of the older steadicam flyer SD monitors, it looked ok at best. HDMI is truly the best option

i'm not sure how the other rca ones will work with d90. $190 seems reasonable. but the new manhattan lcds with HDMI are at $425 and I read good reviews on their previous models. may be worth the stretch.

alexandroff
12-18-2008, 03:36 PM
alright, tell me if this wont' work.

the d90 has mini hdmi..so i'm thinking this.

hdmi to mini hdmi connector
hdmi to dvi
dvi to vga

you think it will work?

uhh... sounds complex... and risky:
http://www.hdfury.com/ is the one that does hdmi-vga
then u can get a cheap minihdmi-hdmi adapter on ebay

but hdfury i think costs $250 or so + $190 monitor?? (SD)?

vs. manhattan lcd HDMI monitor (HD) $425 + miniHDMI-hdmi cable ($20?) + battery of choice (Tekkeon is really amazing and can work for other things as well)

alexandroff
12-18-2008, 03:44 PM
my D90 monitor-related setup (being shipped...)
- $425 mahnattan lcd monitor: http://www.manhattanlcd.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=7003&Show=TechSpecs
- $10 minHDMI-HDMI short cable: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=330292480242
- Tekkeon battery (with double power): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=350134177765

...

also getting:
- miniHDMI-HDMI adapter $6 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=370122258940
- longer HDMI-HDMI cable for the jib

Park Edwards
12-18-2008, 04:40 PM
http://www.consoleshop.com/product.php?productid=20586

This is what you're probably talking about and it's a whole lot cheaper than $250. The monitor is def high res. Native it's 800x600 with a maximum to 1024x768. It's definitely 720p worthy.

I'm not worried about power at this point cause unless I'm shooting in the woods, I'll always have a power source...even my car can power a monitor. I'll check with these companies and see if there's a return before I go and buy all that gear.

Park Edwards
12-18-2008, 04:51 PM
this look like it'll work too.

http://cgi.ebay.com/HDMI-HDTV-to-VGA-HD15-Y-Pb-Pr-3-RCA-Adapter-Cable-1080p_W0QQitemZ250341780980QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item250341780980&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50


I know hdmi cables are balonie when it comes to prices. best buy will sell them for over $100.00 and you can actually buy them for 3bux online. cnet wrote an article stating it doesn't matter if you buy a generic hdmi cable vs a name brand, they're all the same. 30 money back return policy too.

alexandroff
12-18-2008, 04:53 PM
yep, thats the one (i never tried any of these and not sure of the model differences, but generally - that's the adapter).

not sure how high res the output on that screen will stay (as that adapter seems pretty high tech, yet small, seems to be not yet tried by anyone here?, and usually they used to have like a whole box unit to convert hdmi to _vga output, but i think it is worth trying (especially if they offer returns... someone online certainly will).
if high res stays, than its good if u like the img quality of the screen, if not i'm sure there are so many _vga screens to choose from that are cheaper and great. it will ultimately come down to how that adapter performs

Park Edwards
12-18-2008, 04:55 PM
it says 10.2gbs 300something mhz. All vga monitors are HD but lack the HDMI. so if the data can be transfered from the d90 to the monitor fast enough, then it'll work.

Edit: Not 1080p, but at least 720p or 1080i

Thebes
12-18-2008, 05:47 PM
I believe timmytimetravel used a hdmi to dvi converter with his Tote-vision and it worked out, except the dropouts which it seems happen randomly when entering LV...

I tried my sony 840x480 dvd player through the composite, but didn't find it very useful... no easier to focus with than the D90's lcd, and lots of unused screen space due to the pillar boxing for 4:3 signal. Useful maybe for remote monitoring though.

I'm looking at the Manhattan LCD display too. Anyone know if they have a history of getting stuff out when its expected, the 8.9 says it should be available 1/1/09... I might be tempted to get the kit just so I know its not delayed, would that be likely?

alexandroff
12-18-2008, 05:55 PM
i pre-ordered manhattan yesterday (looks like there's 22 left)
i emailed them concerning 1/1/09 shipping eta, here's what I got back:

"Yes, we still plan on shipping on the 1st or maybe before. So far everything is smooth."

Park Edwards
12-18-2008, 06:00 PM
sweet. this is what i'm gonna do. use an lcd monitor i have already set the resolution to 1024x786, get that cord and hook it to the d90 and test it instead of buying all the parts and maybe having to return all of them.

i'll report back once i do.

Park Edwards
12-18-2008, 06:06 PM
and i'm confused...how can a monitor that's resolution is 1024x600 be true HD? and support 1080p?

Park Edwards
12-20-2008, 03:16 PM
how whack would a 4:3 monitor be for the d90? i'm looking at one and it' relatively cheap. 8" 4:3 High Res monitor.

alexandroff
12-20-2008, 03:22 PM
and i'm confused...how can a monitor that's resolution is 1024x600 be true HD? and support 1080p?

i'm not sure on the resolution.
ikan is also confusing: 800x480

PhantomVideo
12-21-2008, 01:54 PM
smaller monitors don't have the realestate to have 1920x1080 pixels on them so alot of the time they are 800x400 but have 1:1 buttons so you can zoom to check focus and at 1;1 you could say they are FULL HD, but accoring the panel size they are not

The Panasonic BT-80 is one that does this, but no HDMI,

Gerhard Helmut
01-06-2009, 05:11 PM
getting http://www.manhattanlcd.com/product_p/7003.htm
and
http://www.tekkeon.com/products-mypowerall.html to power it
for my d90

did this work ok for you?
would you mind commenting about it!


Thanx

GH

alexandroff
01-06-2009, 05:32 PM
did this work ok for you?
would you mind commenting about it!


Thanx

GH

receiving the monitor this friday

Gerhard Helmut
01-16-2009, 11:16 AM
receiving the monitor this friday




whats the verdict?

GH

SebastianLc
01-16-2009, 12:43 PM
Sorry guys i'm a little confused, i want to buy this lcd screen and use with my nikon d90.
http://www.manhattanlcd.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=7003&Show=TechSpecs

can i buy a hdmi cable like this and right after be ready to use it
http://www.amazon.com/25ft-HDMI-Cable-Premium-Certified/dp/B000EPRG6W

and can i see trough my camera and on the screen at the same time.


Thanks you

brunsona
01-16-2009, 05:54 PM
I purchased a Manhattan HD089A LCD monitor, turns out they are located in Orlando, FL not far from my location. I had a good discussion with them before purchasing and I figured it would be easy to drive over and visit with them in person if I had a problem with the monitor.

They are hardware guys, not video guys. They've been selling LCD kits for a while so they understand lots about monitors and cables and inputs and buttons but they know nothing about how to use this for shooting.

For instance, there is no blue-screen only option and adjusting any of the settings takes a good bit of messing around. There's no manual included but there is a remote control that works to access some of the features some of the time.

Bottomline - it handles the D90 and any other video I've thrown at it just fine. Playback from the D90 looks great. When you shoot you see the same screen as the back of the D90. The picture is reduced in size with all the icons and cam info in black around the edges.

The 8.9" monitor is much easier to check focus but trusting the monitor for color, lighting details, etc. is not the same as with a full pro monitor. Of course, the D90 has no color bar output so there's nothing to calibrate with.

All LCD monitors need a hood to be visible in full sunlight, this one is no exception.

I have checked it against my 20" Apple monitor driven by a Matrox MXO and it looks pretty good. I just ordered a Sony HVR-Z5U so I'll have a better way of field testing when that arrives.

Bottomline with any monitor is to play lots of footage that you know on it and learn where it works and where it doesn't. Play it safe when you shoot and learn to use post production tools with a calibrated monitor in a darkened room for finessing the final edit.

I like the HD089A because it's less than half the money of an Ikan and works great for what it is. The case and the buttons are metal so it seems fairly durable. There are mounting holes on all four sides so with a little creativity you can mount it where ever you want. It weighs less than 2 lbs. so you could mount it on the D90 hot shoe.

I added a Tekkeon MP3450 battery and get a good 4 hours on a charge. I plan to do a more thorough review and tutorial when I get the time.

SebastianLc asked about the HDMI cable - the one you linked to will not work. You need a mini-HDMI to HDMI. You can either by a mini-HDMI to HDMI adapter or a cable with mini-HDMI on one end and regular HDMI on the other. Also, you probably will not want 25' of cable hanging off your D90 or your monitor unless you're running on a jib. A 6' cable is much more than enough.

-a-

alexandroff
01-16-2009, 11:37 PM
whats the verdict?

GH

there's a whole topic on it here:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=158201

i love the monitor
looks like i'm not the only one
they are sold out and next batch of 50 will be at the price increase