Film Stock?

[moviefn1]

Hey guys, Im new to film. I am shooting a short for my film 2 class and have to figure out what filmstock to use on my own. I am shooting mostly indoors but there will be an outdoor shot as well. Then indoor shots will be lit with tungsten lights but also the natural daylight through the windows. So its down to Kodak and Fuji, which do you think would work best and what speed would be the best. Thank you.

[Mattykins]

Well what look are you thinking of?

Are you shooting 16mm or 35mm?

The new Vision 3 stock by Kodak is really nice. But the 7229, Expression 500T is nice too. You need to gel the windows so you don't get the really mixed light. Or toss a tungsten light out of the window to overpower the incoming daylight.

Speed wise - it depends on the feel. I can't find my Fuji stock catalogue at the moment. But I think you need to figure out the general look you want. Each stock has inherent characteristics that play well in some situations and not so well in others.

Any more info would be great.

[moviefn1]

Its 16mm, forgot to mention that. I want to get a less vivid look, maybe desaturated like a David Fincher film. Something to that magnitude. My main concern was the tungsten and daylight mix and the film speed. I havent had much formal training on lighting so I dont know if I need tungsten or daylight balanced film. Also I am not sure what speed since it will be inside but I want to be able to not overexpose when heading outside.

[Mattykins]

Well, without going through my catalogues -

consider like a 200T stock. You will need an 85B filter to use when shooting Tungsten film outside. Like I said, CTO gel the windows to correct for the daylight coming in - or toss a tungsten light outside, maybe a 1K at the least. 7212 might be a decent stock to look at by Kodak. Look into the 7229 as well. Softer colours.

The desaturation can be done in post.

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

I love Kodak film, and in all fairness has never given fuji a chance. Go with the Kodak Vision II platform, and if you are a student (which it sounds like you are) get the student discount... VERY worth it. (I do not believe Kodak offers student pricing on Vision III quite yet.)

Second, when discussing film stocks, the format is not relevant. With Kodak, the film stocks are simply cut larger for 35mm or smaller for 16mm. When browsing the catalogue of film stocks the stocks which start with a "52" are 35mm and the stocks that start with "72" are 16mm. So the popular film stock "5217" is actually the exact same film stock as "7217" but simply cut for 35mm cameras.

There are a few stocks which probably are only offered in one format size, but most likely you will not be using it.

Also, when choosing a film stock, you must understand the film stock will not necessarily give you your 'look'. Each film stock has subtle differences which may allow you to choose one which starts you off to getting that look, but the look will be mainly "found" in your lighting, developing, and printing techniques. As I mentioned in a previous thread here at DVXuser, Harold and Kumar Escape from Guantanamo, and The Dark Knight both used the same two film stocks (with the exception of Dark knight Imax sequences) kodak 5205 and 5218. As you see, the 'look' isn't quite dictated by the stock.

With that being said, the main qualities to look for in a film stock are speed, sensitivity, and then those subtle qualities which may help you base your over all look upon.

Speed & Sensitivity:
Film is comprised of bajillions of little dots called grain. When light hits these grains, they photochemically change. All together, these exposed grains make up the picture on the film. Grains can be made in different sizes. Small grains are harder to see when watching a film. They give the appearance of a 'cleaner' picture. The downside to these much smaller and packed grains, are that they require more light to expose. Therefore slower film stocks (iso/asa 60, 100, etc) are less sensitive to light. Film stocks which are made with much larger grains, can have a clean appearance if exposed properly, but at the mercy of slight under exposure, can really start to show the grain. These grains give a 'dirty' and edgy feeling to the film, but are much more sensitive to light requiring less to expose.

Choose depending on grain structure desired and depending on your lighting circumstances/ availability.

Daylight and Tungsten:

Some DP's shoot different stocks for day scenes and night scenes, some simply add a filter either in front or behind the lens to change color temperature. The choice in yours. Be aware that adding an 85 or 85a filter will knock down sensitivity.

Visit Kodak's website and take a look at the technical data on each film. Try to understand the subtle differences between them, and take note on the film speed and color temperature. I'm sure you'll find one which will work.

[moviefn1]

I cannot gel the windows so I guess I will have to shoot a 2k through. What would the outcome be if I just left it as is?

[Kendo556]

I'm not sure why everyone is worried if he was to use natural light and tungsten lighting. i will explain my reasoning and correct me if I'm wrong. in my own observations and experience if you look around your house a majority of your lamps are probably tungsten balanced bulbs and if those lights are on in a house during the day and even if your blinds are closed you will still get daylight balance light from the sun spilling in threw the cracks. giving you a color blanence mix of tungsten and daylight.
If you do it right the mix of color temperatures could be something you want. now more then likely depending on the time of day you shoot the sun will probably over power your tungsten lights depending on the lights you are using. if thats the case your image will be very blue if you shoot tungsten balanced film. but you could ND gel the windows to control the intensity of the light to maybe make the mix of color temperatures enjoyable and have a natural look. i say this because in one of my previous jobs the director wanted a little bit of blue to the scene a majority of the room was lite with tungsten and we were in a sound stage and used HMI's (HMI's are daylight balanced) shooting threw the windows and got an awesome mix that looked normal.

i will stress this!! if this isn't what you want then don't do it. if you don't want it just use tungsten lighting threw the windows also if you have problems still with the sun over powering your lights outside the window. set up a Solid outside of it to block off the light coming in the window ( if you have access to this if not a solid is just a thick black sheet pretty much in many different sizes. and is used to block or cut light)

i hope this information helps with the color temperature issue. on the film side of it all the stocks have there pros an cons. really sit down with your director see what he or she wants and then really sit down with yourself and picture how you want the film to looks. do you want high or low contrast? do you want saturated or desaturated colors? do you want high amounts of grain or do you want low grain? and like said before by in this thread by Ryan O'Hara the film is just one tool that will help you get the look you want other factors are, lighting, telecine/DI and developing.

good luck and would love to see the final product or camera tests along the way, there are so many awesome things you can do with film so have a blast with it!! let me know if you have any questions don't hesitate to ask

Ken Keeler

[ladycarbuncles]

i shot my entire film on fuji 125T or 250T (did not gel windows) with a mixture of tungsten lighting and daylight. i was quite pleased with fuji generally. from what i've heard fuji has generally cooler hues than kodak. but this totally depends on what kind of lighting you're doing as well. it also depends on your location and subject matter: wall paints, props colors etc...if you can't gel the windows you can always gel the lights in whatever direction you prefer. if shooting the tungsten film with no gel correction whatsoever, your result with tend to be cooler/bluer. for the indoor shoot, the quality of the daylight, ie direct sunlight pouring in in window vs. the light quality of an overcast day, time of day, is the window in the shot, these are all factors to consider. best to do some light readings at the location in advance if at all possible.