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View Full Version : HDMI uncompressed capture - heres the first



timmytimetravel
09-24-2008, 12:47 PM
Here it is.

More later when the stores open and I can get a longer hdmi cable. So judge not by the grain :)

The movie is encoded in h264 to get it small enough up onto dvx. Full uncompressed one can be found at link below for testing.

You can note that the only way to get rid of the focus frame in the middle is to switch it to Portrait or portait nightscene mode. This then limits automatic functions but doesn't limit locking them in before going into LV mode using AE-L and then using manual aperture on the lens. If you hit record on the unit at the same time (which it lets you do), you can then get rid of the square in other modes, but you gain a flashing "Rec" and counter in the top right of the frame... Trade offs but some flexibility depending if you are an auto or manual type bod.

Note also blackmagic hdmi intensity pro will not sync with this in 1080i mode. It will however sync when pushing the menu button as shown by the capture sizes below. That may suggest that it can put out 1080 in that part of the internals, but somewhere else inside it is upscaled, or simply just doesn't let you output 1080 from liveview. Firmwareable? maybe... If anyone has any other tricks you want me to try to try trick it, go ahead and suggest :)

It doesn't look like the aliasing on horizontal/diagonal lines is due to compression as you can see by the tub pic.

It also doesnt look like it outputs audio over HDMI! I tested with another cam that does, and it works fine.

Aside from getting clearer shots in better light open to suggestions for any more testing.

Cheers

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/40285/1222281891.jpg

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/40285/1222282206.jpg

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/40285/1222283169.jpg

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/40285/1222283141.jpg

H.264 compressed

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/40285/1222281616.mov

Uncompressed.

http://rapidshare.com/files/148077641/femsapien_d90_8bit_short.mov.html

http://rapidshare.com/files/148080750/85mmf1.4.pct.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/148080751/85mmf1.4_pic2.pct.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/148080753/menu720.pct.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/148080754/menu1080.pct.html

Karsvall
09-24-2008, 01:11 PM
When you make your tests could you please also record the same shot on the card and put that up so that we can compare the differents captures.

timmytimetravel
09-24-2008, 05:01 PM
Here is round one of tests. Uncompressed pictures then uncompressed vids.

The rocks were on a tamron 28-300 VR (testing macro)

The charts and backyard were on either the 50mm1.4 or the 85mm1.4

Questions? Suggestions? Conclusions? Etc....

http://rapidshare.com/files/148129166/d90_chart_from_cam.PCT.html


http://rapidshare.com/files/148129167/d90_chart_from_hdmi.PCT.html


http://rapidshare.com/files/148129168/d90_outside_from_cam.pct.html


http://rapidshare.com/files/148129169/d90_outside_from_hdmi.PCT.html


http://rapidshare.com/files/148129170/d90_chart_uncompressed.html


http://rapidshare.com/files/148129171/d90_chart_focus_uncompressed.html


http://rapidshare.com/files/148129172/d90_chart_f5_uncompressed.html


http://rapidshare.com/files/148129173/d90_chart_f5.6_manual_uncompressed.html


http://rapidshare.com/files/148129174/d90_rock_uncompressed.html



http://rapidshare.com/files/148134886/d90_chart_from_hdmi.MOV.html

http://rapidshare.com/files/148134887/d90_chart_from_cam.MOV.html

http://rapidshare.com/files/148134888/d90_outside_from_hdmi.mov.html

http://rapidshare.com/files/148134889/d90_outside_from_cam.mov.html

Kholi
09-24-2008, 05:46 PM
Well at first glance it seems to be a little better if I'm looking at these right.

timmytimetravel
09-24-2008, 05:55 PM
And here is the rest

http://rapidshare.com/files/148141119/d90_short_dof_rock_splash_8bit_uncompressed.mov.ht ml
http://rapidshare.com/files/148144051/d90_fem_day_dance_uncomp_short.mov.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/148141123/d90_CU_fem_day_dance_uncomp_shorter.mov.html

And a VR demo at 300mm in h264 off and on.

http://rapidshare.com/files/148144052/vr_d90_rock_h264.mov.html

Kholi
09-24-2008, 06:00 PM
Actually, I take that back. =T Looks the same, just with the stuff all around it.

timmytimetravel
09-24-2008, 11:57 PM
I havent had time to really do more than prepare and upload it vs assess it, but I tend to agree.... Either something is bogus in my testing or...?

Does that really just mean what we are getting to some extent, say noise in blacks, is simply what its pumping out prior to compression?

Is there any chance it is actually putting out compressed on the hdmi?
I kind of thought no since I read the posts suggesting the d300 put out uncompressed. Figured it was a given. Did people actually see a difference in the d300 uncompressed grabs?

I've never really used capture cards before... I presume if it is set to sample at a certain rate (in this case 720 59.94 or 60 frames is the only menu selection in the intensity). Then does that mean it will essentially create that data stream out of what it finds regardless if its compressed or not. I presume so.

Eg, create a uncompressed compressed signal. All nice, high data rate, requires raid 0 to even play the clips etc... But could still be compressed??

Is there a way of knowing for sure aside from looking for less compression artifacts?

For something with a red sized sensor, if someone with red shot one of these clips, and set it to 720 uncompressed, and used similar nikon glass. Would be seeing these artifacts? How about doing a red capture uncompressed at 720 and then running though nikons compression scheme... Would you come up with something like these shots?

I got an em from someone at blackmagic today, I asked them if they would like to have a tech weigh in here.. At the very least if we can nail a list of things we dont like about the hdmi out, overlays, frame in picture, no audio etc - we could probably add it to a laundry list of LV wishes, and feed it back to Nikon for f/w updates, or next version.... after all, looks like the war is on, and these are some of the bits that will make good forum reviews for future buyers :)

Spybreaka
09-25-2008, 05:40 AM
timmytimetravel: Just wondering if you've had any issues with the signal dropping out? I find that occasionally it will simply stop outputting to the cable. I'm using a 5m mini-hdmi to hdmi cable, I guess I'm wondering if the issue is the cable or the camera? Might need to get a shorter cale. :/

timmytimetravel
09-25-2008, 01:33 PM
timmytimetravel: Just wondering if you've had any issues with the signal dropping out? I find that occasionally it will simply stop outputting to the cable. I'm using a 5m mini-hdmi to hdmi cable, I guess I'm wondering if the issue is the cable or the camera? Might need to get a shorter cale. :/

Yes indeed! Thought it was just me. Sent this em to blackmagic.

"I had a bit of trouble where the express software would drop sync to it in 720. I could go to prefs and set it to another mode and back , no difference . I could unplug the hdmi live or when it was off and in again no difference . Intermittantly though it would work . But only in the beginning . It had no problems with another cam plugging in and out .

Quiting program and restarting mac pro made no diff either .

Only way I got it to work in the end was to sync the 1080 camera in 1080 . Unplug hdmi . Plug into d90 and then change to 720 ."

So. Perhaps mystery solved. I am using a mini c type to std hdmi cable adapter, got from these guys. Really handy on the end of a short hdmi<>dvi cable to plug into lcd tft for steadi work.

http://www.dcables.net/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1118

I thought it might have been the adapter, and I've tried plugging different lengths of std hdmi cabling inbetween. Seems a little less likely to sync with a longer cable, but not conclusive. But even with a std length cable I had problems.

If you are using a straight 5m mini<>hdmi, and I am getting similar results with the mini adapter cable (and that makes perfect sense that it is the camera dropping the connection given intensity seems rock solid with another cam) means it is VERY LIKELY there is intermittent problems with the hdmi connection.

And if plugging and unplugging in itself did not fix it, but switching expectant hdmi handshakes does and then plugging unplugging. More likely a firmware handshake type problem than hardware....

I thought it might have been related to capture, but I presume you are talking about playback of pics / video on a hdmi tv or monitor?

Might almost be worth a new thread. Would encourage people to check it out early.
If they have to fix on part of the hdmi, why not fix a bunch of our other suggestions!!! :) (assuming its not hardware of course, which would sux).

Mini hdmi (type c) not used too much yet. Seems like sony camcorders are the biggest users when I went hunting for cables. Maybe we could do some sony forum searching and see if its a general issue with mini hdmi, though I doubt it...

Cheers

Spybreaka
09-25-2008, 06:23 PM
Yea it's on a TV. Two different TVs actually. Both showed the same issues. It simply would stop displaying anything. One of the TV's which detects attached devices and lets you select sources dependent on what is attached stops listing HDMI as a source when this happens. So it really does look like there is some sort of handshake issue. I haven't tried changing the output setting on the camera when this happens, but I'll give it a go and report back.

I searched a bit around yesterday but wasn't able to find people having the same issue specifically with mini-hdmi cables. People talk about dropouts with hdmi and blame the cables, but I think I'll wait to see what others dig up on these cables before arguing for a refund. It'll be very annoying if we can't hook up an external screen for focusing purposes to this thing due to hdmi issues! Nikon better fix it if there is a problem.

zcream
10-02-2008, 09:10 PM
Isn't this terrible. D90 shoots 24P but does not give HDMI uncompressed and uses a crappy codec. 5D Mark II does NOT shoot 24P but gives uncompressed HDMI and uses a quality codec.
Whats going on ??

Park Edwards
10-02-2008, 09:24 PM
nikon is new to the game they have an excuse. canon? they don't. this being nikons first step tells you they're heading in the right direction. i'd say they're up to something.

vitaminc
10-15-2008, 05:40 PM
Am I understanding correctly that the D90 can be used while recording to the SD card, and sending output to an external monitor for framing?

assiriel
10-15-2008, 05:51 PM
That's correct. only the external hdmi monitor will be active.

alexandroff
12-02-2008, 07:29 PM
then, am I correct in saying that there's no sense in trying to spend more on a HDMI field monitor to connect to Nikon D90, since its HDMI output is not true HD?

mattsand
12-02-2008, 10:55 PM
in what way is it not true hd, whatever that means? and why is true hd necessary to use a field monitor? or you mean compared to an sd composite one? you'll still get a cleaner picture over hdmi, even if it's not that much higher in res.

/matt

alexandroff
12-02-2008, 11:09 PM
re: HD output, i got it from the post above "D90 shoots 24P but does not give HDMI uncompressed".

but yes, I meant the composite one. I have a 7" marshall; but looks like there's no way to connect that to HDMI