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ESTEBEVERDE
09-22-2008, 10:28 PM
"The person I spoke with at Canon's help line did not give me the greatest sense of confidence in their ability to impart my 24p request, so I took reader prosckes's advice and emailed Canon at customerfeedback@cits.canon.com: (http://prolost.blogspot.com/2008/09/my-letter-to-canon.html)

Dearest Canon,

I am an author, filmmaker, and photographer. I use my 5D almost every day and own several video cameras as well (including one from Canon). The filmmaking community is very excited about the 5D MkII's HD video mode. It is a very important development that many, including myself, see as signifying an eventual loss of distinction between video and still cameras. It is wonderful that Canon is a part of this revolution.

I realize that despite the excitement surrounding this new capability, video is a "bonus" feature on the 5D MkII. Nevertheless, it's a bonus feature that will sell some cameras. In my own case, the HD video feature would be enough for me to immediately upgrade from my current 5D to the MkII. Except for one crucial problem: the frame rate.

It was a natural choice to offer 30 fps video, as it roughly matches the broadcast frame rate in both the US and Japan. But we filmmakers would love to have the option of 24 fps. This is the frame rate of motion picture film. Until HD video cameras adopted this frame rate (which came to be known as 24p, the "p" standing for Progressive Scan), they were not taken seriously by the film industry.

Canon's pro video division understands this, perhaps painfully. Canon was once the darling of the independent video community, but being late to the table with a real 24p video solution meant a lot of lost business to Panasonic and Sony. Now even very low-end Canon video cameras have 24p support, although Canon is still not perceived as a leader in this area.

And while the 5D MkII is in a different class than the Nikon D90 DSLR, the D90's video mode, while only 720p and marred by motion artifacts, is 24 fps. This is important enough that many people are buying the D90 based on this feature alone. At the same time, Panasonic's compact LX3 also features 24p video at 720p HD resolution. Other manufacturers know what Canon's pro video division knows: 24p is a must-have option in an HD camera.

Meanwhile, Jim Jannard of RED is scrapping his plans for a much-anticipated $3,000 video camera, based, no doubt, on the sudden explosion of large-sensor motion options cropping up at or below that price point. He has thousands of potential customers waiting to buy whatever he makes instead.

You need to be as much of a leader in this exciting new movement in camera technology as you are in the DSLR world. Please add 24p support to the 5D MkII via a firmware update. If you do, I will upgrade immediately. If you don't support 24p, someone else will, and my business and allegiance will go with them. This is a critical time for Canon to establish leadership and show an understanding of its users' needs.

And now for some specifics: While 30 fps is useful, it would be better if the camera ran at 29.97 fps, the actual speed of NTSC video. Similarly, when I say 24p, I am really talking about 23.976 fps. In Europe, users will want a 25 fps mode for compatibility with PAL video. Again, none of this is news to your pro video division.

For more information on this subject and to read some comments from supporters and potential customers, please see my blog:

So Close Canon

OK guys, if you're serious about this...

Thanks for your time and attention,

-Stu

--
Stu Maschwitz
www.theorphanage.com
www.prolost.com"

Kholi
09-22-2008, 10:34 PM
Here freakin' here. I hope they know how to freakin' listen and drop a firmware upgrade!!!

Emanuel
09-22-2008, 10:53 PM
Same vote here.

ESTEBEVERDE
09-22-2008, 10:53 PM
I wrote them.

booggerg2
09-23-2008, 12:06 AM
Don't you people realize? The XHA1 replacement will have a large sensor like the 5D and it will be able to use Canon EF lenses with little or no cropping.

So Once that comes out, the video mode on the 5D2 will become a "silly feature"

The Sarlacc
09-23-2008, 12:50 AM
Interesting letter...backhanded compliments and a slight condescending tone regrading their divisions knowledge of video.

Hope they dont take it the wrong way.

PS: how do we know its not recording at 29.97? Has someone gone in and found this out for sure? Because at this day in age 24p is used a lot...but 98% of the time refers to 23.98...same goes with 30 and 60...

Oedipax
09-23-2008, 02:30 AM
PS: how do we know its not recording at 29.97? Has someone gone in and found this out for sure? Because at this day in age 24p is used a lot...but 98% of the time refers to 23.98...same goes with 30 and 60...

The 'Reverie' clip shows up as 29.97 when I load up the info in Quicktime, but stepping through on moving shots a frame at a time, I don't see any combing from interlace artifacts. Inconclusive but it does seem like progressive video to me.

Bebel
09-23-2008, 06:08 AM
brilliant letter - you strike the right tone here :thumbsup:

we should actually use it for something bigger!!!

brian leahy
09-23-2008, 08:38 AM
Excellent letter

ESTEBEVERDE
09-23-2008, 10:02 AM
To make this absolutely clear this is Stu Maschwitz's letter and the material is linked to his blog for reference.

But yes indeed, this is a good start of letting them know what we want.

ryan brown
09-23-2008, 10:24 AM
Psshhh... this isn't telling them (canon) anything they don't already know. And a letter from a single person is supposed to suddenly make the heads of a huge, worldwide, company change their minds?

I think not. They crippled the feature on purpose, and that's all there is to it. They knew what Nikon and the other manufacturer's were up to. You don't think their research department went over the frame rate's of the other cameras? just a coincidence that Nikon and Canon release their "movie-mode" cameras within a couple weeks of eachother? it may make people feel more important and like they're "making a difference" by sending an email, but give me a break... that's the most naive thing I've heard in awhile.

In my experience, that's just how canon works.

Bebel
09-27-2008, 01:17 AM
"The person I spoke with at Canon's help line did not give me the greatest sense of confidence in their ability to impart my 24p request, so I took reader prosckes's advice and emailed Canon at customerfeedback@cits.canon.com: (http://prolost.blogspot.com/2008/09/my-letter-to-canon.html)

Dearest Canon,

I am an author, filmmaker, and photographer. I use my 5D almost every day and own several video cameras as well (including one from Canon). The filmmaking community is very excited about the 5D MkII's HD video mode. It is a very important development that many, including myself, see as signifying an eventual loss of distinction between video and still cameras. It is wonderful that Canon is a part of this revolution.

I realize that despite the excitement surrounding this new capability, video is a "bonus" feature on the 5D MkII. Nevertheless, it's a bonus feature that will sell some cameras. In my own case, the HD video feature would be enough for me to immediately upgrade from my current 5D to the MkII. Except for one crucial problem: the frame rate.

It was a natural choice to offer 30 fps video, as it roughly matches the broadcast frame rate in both the US and Japan. But we filmmakers would love to have the option of 24 fps. This is the frame rate of motion picture film. Until HD video cameras adopted this frame rate (which came to be known as 24p, the "p" standing for Progressive Scan), they were not taken seriously by the film industry.

Canon's pro video division understands this, perhaps painfully. Canon was once the darling of the independent video community, but being late to the table with a real 24p video solution meant a lot of lost business to Panasonic and Sony. Now even very low-end Canon video cameras have 24p support, although Canon is still not perceived as a leader in this area.

And while the 5D MkII is in a different class than the Nikon D90 DSLR, the D90's video mode, while only 720p and marred by motion artifacts, is 24 fps. This is important enough that many people are buying the D90 based on this feature alone. At the same time, Panasonic's compact LX3 also features 24p video at 720p HD resolution. Other manufacturers know what Canon's pro video division knows: 24p is a must-have option in an HD camera.

Meanwhile, Jim Jannard of RED is scrapping his plans for a much-anticipated $3,000 video camera, based, no doubt, on the sudden explosion of large-sensor motion options cropping up at or below that price point. He has thousands of potential customers waiting to buy whatever he makes instead.

You need to be as much of a leader in this exciting new movement in camera technology as you are in the DSLR world. Please add 24p support to the 5D MkII via a firmware update. If you do, I will upgrade immediately. If you don't support 24p, someone else will, and my business and allegiance will go with them. This is a critical time for Canon to establish leadership and show an understanding of its users' needs.

And now for some specifics: While 30 fps is useful, it would be better if the camera ran at 29.97 fps, the actual speed of NTSC video. Similarly, when I say 24p, I am really talking about 23.976 fps. In Europe, users will want a 25 fps mode for compatibility with PAL video. Again, none of this is news to your pro video division.

For more information on this subject and to read some comments from supporters and potential customers, please see my blog:

So Close Canon

OK guys, if you're serious about this...

Thanks for your time and attention,

-Stu

--
Stu Maschwitz
www.theorphanage.com (http://www.theorphanage.com)
www.prolost.com"



hi ESTEBEVERDE

why not posting this letter to the From Vincent Laforet: If you want 24p on the 5D MKII... -thread??? if allowed.

i mean we all agree it's excellent stuff..

ESTEBEVERDE
09-27-2008, 01:25 AM
Stu sent his letter directly to Canon.

For now we need to post to Canon directly and through Vincent as well.


Specifically, we need to ask for:

29.97 fps
25.00 fps
23.976 fps

Manual Shutter
Manual ISO
Manual Aperture.

ProLost
09-27-2008, 01:26 AM
Hi guys, thanks for giving the letter a read. If you care about a 24p option on the 5D MkII, may I request that you visit Vincent's blog (http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2008/09/26/original-raw-clips-from-reverie-now-available-for-download/#comment-2661) and make a comment expressing your desires. He is trying to draw Canon's attention to the need for 24p, and he has their ear. Let's show Canon that there is overwhelming demand for 24p.

-Stu

Bebel
09-27-2008, 01:28 AM
:thumbsup:

let's hope & pray!

ESTEBEVERDE
09-27-2008, 01:48 AM
Hi guys, thanks for giving the letter a read. If you care about a 24p option on the 5D MkII, may I request that you visit Vincent's blog (http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2008/09/26/original-raw-clips-from-reverie-now-available-for-download/#comment-2661) and make a comment expressing your desires. He is trying to draw Canon's attention to the need for 24p, and he has their ear. Let's show Canon that there is overwhelming demand for 24p.

-Stu


Will Do!


And, Stu.


Have you had the chance to catch some of Steven Dempsey's work here on the forum?