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View Full Version : Is rolling shutter really a big deal?



roxics
09-21-2008, 11:14 PM
It's got to be just me but I've watched several videos on here people have shot with the D90 and others have chimed in complaining about the rolling shutter. Most of the time I just don't see it. Maybe I don't know what I'm really supposed to be looking for. But I think that brings up an important question.

Will the general audience even notice?

Some of the test stuff here is just amazing (I'm looking at you Matthew Bennett). The stuff looks like it was shot on 35mm film. Comparing it to all the movies I've watched over my 29 years I can't see why anyone would complain about this level of footage for a camera that is only $1000. This is the kind of camera I've been waiting half my life for. The ability to achieve the look of 35mm for the cost of video.

ESTEBEVERDE
09-22-2008, 01:21 AM
Rolling shutter actually makes me sea sick and all that rot.

Shoot, and I even like 30p! :-)

fahreza
09-22-2008, 01:41 AM
hi. i'm a total newbie and i actually don't know what a rolling shutter before i learned from this forum. i've seen many samples on the vimeo channel and they just look fine to me except the one rolling shutter demo. is it only because of my amateur' eyes or because i've only seen vimeo footages on a small laptop screen?

ando
09-22-2008, 02:10 AM
http://www.dagbladet.no/kultur/2008/09/21/547601.html

as you can see 5d is big jello too

you just have to rethink the way you work if you want to use 5d or d90 (or hv20)

Thebes
09-22-2008, 03:14 AM
I think that the jello from a rolling shutter is much more objectionable than the skew. And the jello only happens with camera shake. I've done hand-held footage without it as have other people.

The skew looks pretty awful in shots designed to emphasize it, like panning back and forth so the skew changes direction. But in some shots I think it just gives a funky sense of motion, and with care it can be minimized by slower panning. It can also be de-emphasized by tilting the camera or by blowing out focus during the pan.

The camera is a tool and if used appropriately can be used to make great things.

Norbert
09-22-2008, 03:38 AM
I remember back in the days when the HV20 was released. When I first bought it I experienced, in my terms, a wobbly image. I returned it thinking there was something seriously wrong with the camera. I pointed it out on several forums, including this one, trying to figure out if others had the same problem. No one seemed to have the problems I had at first, but after a while people started noticing the wobble and skew on their cameras as well, and they reported back.

Conclusion. If you're not looking for it, you are probably not going to notice it. On the other hand, I noticed it the minute I picked up the camera and started shooting. We all have different expectations, and until you know what you are going to shoot with the camera, you can't really know if a certain tool fits your needs. I later discovered that the rolling shutter was not a problem for what I wanted to do with the camera. For other shooting styles than my own, I would pick a different camera.

philip bloom
09-22-2008, 06:47 AM
The rolling shutter, from someone who owns the d90, is pretty awful. As i said in my blog review the camera is severely limiting for video but knowing those limitations you can still get good results.

http://philipbloom.co.uk/2008/09/15/nikon-d90/

Zack Birlew
09-22-2008, 07:11 AM
I played with a D90 the other day and I can honestly say that I don't know what people are doing with their cameras to get all that wobble. I think people are purposely looking for it and, yeah, they can find it rather easily. But with steady hands and an understanding of the rolling shutter problem, you can avoid a lot of it and get great handheld shots.

Of course, in my opinion, the rolling shutter problem is a good thing because it'll start teaching, or should I say re-teaching, people about the importance of camera support!:beer:

roxics
09-22-2008, 07:50 AM
Philip Bloom
The footage on your blog looks great. I didn't see any sort of rolling shutter, just a few exposure jumps here and there which I understand can be minimized by locking the auto exposure correct?

timmytimetravel
09-26-2008, 08:43 PM
So have we got some examples of a post with jello but no skew, and skew with no jello?
I think a lot of people here (including myself) kind of put them in the same basket?

If so, then a gyro or stabilizer might solve jello, even if it cannot address rolling shutter design. Will anything sort rolling shutter? Ability to trick into a certain shutter speed like 1/48 make any difference?

Park Edwards
09-26-2008, 09:04 PM
put it on a tripod and quit trying to film the next Bourne movies.
rolling shutter/jello solved

timmytimetravel
09-26-2008, 09:16 PM
Heh. True.... Wheres the fun if you are not trying to stretch a piece of technology to its limits just to see if it can :)

How much interesting 24p have you seen with cut after cut of locked off shots? Can't pan or zoom it really, don't want to handhold it so much. Setup time with steadicam is sooo much less than dolly, but who want to avoid the white picket fence shots cause of rolling shutter?! (so long as its bourne running past the picket fence :) )

Jello might be solved wth the steadicam/gyro.... rolling shutter... hmmm... dunno, suspect not. Just going to have to test. Answer probably is - Zero pans above microsecond slow. Slower than every other 24p camera i've used, even knowing that you need to avoid fast pans with 24. And if that's the case, zero pans... well. thats the case :)

Park Edwards
09-26-2008, 10:05 PM
remember this is aimed for toward an audience...they aren't going to notice your picket fence slanting.

how many pans and hand held footage was shown in Garden State and Juno? Both movies highly successful

timmytimetravel
09-26-2008, 10:15 PM
Touche :) Now I am going to have to watch juno again looking for pans and speeds and what they added... Was an awesome movie! Not so much of an action flick tho... There I go on the bourne thing again

Hmmm good point though. How many action flicks filmed in 24p be it film or digital, would have many of their action shots in a higher framerate like 60p mixed back in with 24 even when they are not doing the overcranked slomo...

Park Edwards
09-26-2008, 10:21 PM
laugh...make jello cam the new trend. if everyone starts using it, everyone will like it.

ESTEBEVERDE
09-26-2008, 11:53 PM
laugh...make jello cam the new trend. if everyone starts using it, everyone will like it.


Actually for surfing or underwater shots it might actually work.


Also the train skew was pretty cool....


I think it can actually be selectively used for some cool stuff.


Problem is after the first time or two it will get overused.