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View Full Version : d90 Skipping/losing/dropping frames



Matthew Bennett
09-17-2008, 06:36 PM
My d90 is skipping/losing/dropping frames. Only every once in while. But it seems to be keeping sync with an external sound device over long clips, though.

What's going on, I don't know.

Andrew Brinkhaus
09-17-2008, 06:40 PM
Clip?

kevm14
09-17-2008, 07:10 PM
Slow card or playback issue is my guess.

Matthew Bennett
09-17-2008, 07:30 PM
Clip?

I'll try to create a clip later. I'm pretty lazy though. It basically looks like this.. about 45 seconds into a capture, the action just jumps ahead what appears to be a few frames. But the sound doesn't jump, AND it still maintains sync with another source.

I have a sandisk extr.III 30mb/s card. SHould be fast enough for the paltry data rate...

Park Edwards
09-17-2008, 08:15 PM
i think you just have a faulty camera.
you've had problems since you bought it.

Thebes
09-18-2008, 11:52 AM
I've not had any trouble with dropped frames.

Is this happening in your NLE? Every 41.66 seconds you would need to drop a single frame to maintain sound sync with an external source in post if you edit at 23.976fps instead of 24fps.

Matthew Bennett
09-18-2008, 11:56 AM
I've not had any trouble with dropped frames.

Is this happening in your NLE? Every 41.66 seconds you would need to drop a single frame to maintain sound sync with an external source in post if you edit at 23.976fps instead of 24fps.

Oh, it's probably that, I'm always immediately taking the AVI's into AE, outputting them as CC'd, letterboxed SD 23.976 fps files..... There's simply a drop frame issue in the rendering.

Thanks!

neka
10-15-2008, 07:44 PM
so ae doesn't retime properly ie generate new frames
just drops one every 41 seconds?
have you tried retiming in compressor?
anyone done a shake retime?

so many questions! :)

beckspace
10-15-2008, 08:51 PM
do you format the card each time you load it into the cam?

all professional photo cams and cards need it every time or will corrupt files once in a while

to take the shortest way in D90 is to press trash+metering at once, the display will flash 'For' and press those buttons again. A green light will flash and instantly the card will be formatted and ready to use

buildyo
10-16-2008, 12:58 AM
... the shortest way in D90 is to press trash+metering at once, the display will flash 'For' and press those buttons again. A green light will flash and instantly the card will be formatted and ready to use

I really LOVE this feature of Nikon cameras. Also deleting a clip or photo is very quick.
Not the menu diving and "Are you sure?", "Are you really shure? with the default to "No" of other brands.

Andy Olson
03-11-2009, 08:44 PM
I shot small commercial this weekend with my D90 and in editing now I'm noticing dropped/skipped frames. It's usually just one frame that skipped and it happens on playback on the camera as well. I've actually seen it happen as I've been recording before so it's not a render thing in the NLE.

I was using a Sandisk 8gb SDHC Class 6 card that was reformatted right before I used it. I'm hoping it's just the card, but if it's my D90 then I wanted to get it fixed before the warranty runs out.

I can post some clips if anyone wants to see it happen, but it's looks like a single skipped frame.

Thanks,
Andy

Coco Bermudez
03-11-2009, 09:07 PM
I've had this problem..still have it and probably will have it for a long time. I don't think I have a bad camera though as I see numerous clips on vimeo with the same issue. I've talked about it in a post long time ago but it seemed to me that I was the only fool seeing this issue.

Ifyou go frame by frame, you will catch it.

read my experiece here:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=157058

Andy Olson
03-11-2009, 09:16 PM
Yeah, I see it Super8. I notice motion problems pretty quickly because at work I'm always looking for motion problems. You clip is just like mine where it's just a single frame missing and you can only see it on a pan or an object/person moving in the frame.

Since your cards are fast, maybe it's a defect in the D90.

Thanks,
Andy

mattsand
03-12-2009, 01:37 AM
I've shot around 40 hours and never saw it. I see it on the lcd all the time, but never in the recorded footage. I'm really sensitive to that kind of stuff too so i've been looking quite hard.

Coco Bermudez
03-12-2009, 03:47 AM
I guess if you are lucky...you wont get this. As it stands right now, I have two other colleagues with Nikon D90's different cards...yet all of them fast. We've done some tests by all shooting video at the same time ( 1...2...3...record) and we have the same problems...not at the same exact time but they do occur fairly close. Sometimes it doesn't happen at all...but it does happen. We've looked at the video frame by frame and there is definite somthing quite funny.

It is hard to see this happening when you have your subject moving in fromt of the camera in close proximity...but if the subjects are farther then you will see it. Like I said, many videos on Vimeo display the same characteristic. Once you see it...you will always see it.

Still...I can live with it

Coco Bermudez
03-12-2009, 03:49 AM
I wonder if it has to do with when these cameras were rolled out...maybe by serial numbers we can get and idea of how close certain cameras with this problem are close in proximity in the assembly line......

Andy Olson
03-12-2009, 09:34 AM
Mattsand, do you happen to remember a certain clip you have that you saw it skip on the lcd? Could you post it?

Also, what type of SD cards do you use?

Thanks.

BradM
03-12-2009, 11:07 AM
I noticed this as well within the first days of having the camera and returned it and got another with the same results. It is really noticeable on a merlin or any smooth tripod pans which are just about unuseable. I know two others who have the same issue and like me are using the Extreme 3's. I have tried other cards with the same results.

Coco Bermudez
03-12-2009, 11:29 AM
I noticed this as well within the first days of having the camera and returned it and got another with the same results. It is really noticeable on a merlin or any smooth tripod pans which are just about unuseable. I know two others who have the same issue and like me are using the Extreme 3's. I have tried other cards with the same results.

Every Nikon has this "issue" I am not calling anyone a liar for saying otherwise...I just have corresponded with many who have the same issue across the board...It is almost undetectable if you are not paying attention...but once you see it.....you will start noticing all the drops, skips or what have you

mattsand
03-12-2009, 12:06 PM
So it's a skip or a double frame or both? Are you sure it's not a drop frame / 23.98 issue or maybe the image stabilizer?

Coco Bermudez
03-12-2009, 12:19 PM
So it's a skip or a double frame or both? Are you sure it's not a drop frame / 23.98 issue or maybe the image stabilizer?

It is a skip by about 1 to 4 frames.
There is a double frame too...but that is not noticeable. I shoot everything with a manual lens so there is no image stabilizer other than my rock steady hands

squig
03-12-2009, 02:30 PM
Oh joy another D90 flaw, that GH1 is started to look pretty tempting

Andy Olson
03-13-2009, 07:17 AM
I've only seen a skip of 1 or 2 frames in the raw avi's. The 23.98 or drop frame shouldn't factor in since it's the raw avi's and not just in the NLE.

BradM
03-14-2009, 01:49 PM
So... I did some more testing and with very smooth pans I get the jump/skip every 18 seconds at 24 fps in AE (or in quicktime as well). If I change the AE comp to 23.976 I get the dropped frame at 41.66 seconds (expected) but also I still have the every 18 second jump/skips. Thinking it could be a data issue to the card I tried lower res movie 640x424 and the same result here. It jump/skips at 18 seconds.

Am I missing something simple here ??

Andy Olson
03-15-2009, 10:01 PM
So I was messing around with some of the first pictures I took with my D90 and there was also the first video I took...

...And there was a skipped frame right at 18 seconds just like you BradM?!? I'll have to look through my other clips to see what they do but that is a weird coincidence if it is one.

squig
03-15-2009, 10:45 PM
sounds like a buffer is filling every 18 seconds or something? Anyone else noticed it?

Andy Olson
03-16-2009, 09:39 AM
I've checked a couple other clips and it seems to be the same thing that at the last couple frames of second 17 to second 18 is where a skipped frame occurs.

I wonder if it would only happen at second 18 or in increments after that.

BradM
03-16-2009, 09:47 AM
I wonder if it would only happen at second 18 or in increments after that.


ya it happens every 18 seconds:huh:

The key is to shoot only in 17 second bits hehe ....

mattsand
03-16-2009, 09:51 AM
i still haven't looked for it, but what i do know is that sound holds sync for entire 5 minute takes. could it be that the framerate is slightly off, meaning it has to skip once in a while to maintain sync? otherwise if it skipped frames every 18 seconds that would mean a very noticeable sync drift after 5 minutes.

/matt

Andy Olson
03-17-2009, 10:31 AM
So I've now seen the skipped frames farther in the footage than the first 18 seconds...I wonder if this has been brought to Nikon's attention. This is something they would definitely have to fix.

PaPa
03-17-2009, 11:13 AM
Wow, haven't been following this thread, but hot damn, what's going on here? Big problem?

mattsand
03-17-2009, 11:18 AM
Like i said it's not unlikely that fixing it is exactly what they did. Maybe they can't clock the electronic shutter at exactly 24 fps so they have to drop frames to maintain sync. I've seen the drops too now but i decided i can live with it. There are no duplicates and only one frame dropped, i never saw it before i tried to. Still a problem though.

BradM
03-17-2009, 11:27 AM
Considering they released the camera with vertical resolution cut out every 8 or 9 lines... I would say this probably is pretty low on their radar if at all. They have the little line in the manual which mentions video artifacts and such that they can for sure hide behind.
It sure would be nice if just one of the D90 issues was fixed but since this one is barely noticed by anybody it would be very unlikely I think.

Andy Olson
03-17-2009, 11:46 AM
I'm surprised the D90 has been out this long and people haven't noticed this as more of a problem. I know Nikon was stepping outside their normal realm to put video into their DSLR and I commend them for that, but this a pretty big issue in my opinion.

I do realize they probably won't release any fix for any of the D90's problems as it's mainly a DSLR and video is just a bonus, but Nikon has always made such high quality products and for them to ignore the problems just hurts their reputation. I'd expect this from a company that makes cheap products like Aiptek or a nameless brand, but Nikon should make it right.

I guess I'm just as much to blame for buying a still camera to take moving pictures. I still think it take great pictures and movies and I'll work around it's quirks as everyone is doing.

dantewaters
03-17-2009, 12:01 PM
Is there a hack yet to get more than 5mins at one time on the D90?

Coco Bermudez
03-17-2009, 01:12 PM
I'm surprised the D90 has been out this long and people haven't noticed this as more of a problem.

I noticed it from day one when I bought my cam back in November and made several postings about it...there were a few that noticed this too in several websites...but most people were ok with it or did not notice it for it to be a problem....

Andy Olson
03-17-2009, 01:37 PM
Super8: Yeah, I've seen a post here and there about it and your posts, but I thought more people would care.

dantewaters: I think the 5min clip limit is a hardware issue so if a hack comes about you might overheat and fry your chip. I've heard that if you continuously use the Live mode for full 5min that eventually it won't even let you do the 5min.

dantewaters
03-17-2009, 02:06 PM
I see Andy seems the upgrade will do longer times... Either way it's fine for movie making .