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View Full Version : 5D II - Youtube footage - Not MUCH Skew... Hmmm



Matthew Bennett
09-17-2008, 01:07 PM
This appears to be actual non-rigged, normal dude, shakey hand-held footage from the 5DII, and although there is SOME skew it looks like Canon has it almost licked...
What does everyone else think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8ILR7uf4GM

Kholi
09-17-2008, 01:10 PM
How wide is the lens?

Matthew Bennett
09-17-2008, 01:27 PM
I don't know, I'm imagining that this is just a guy with a blog who went to a camera show in Lisbon, shot to his own card, and then put the footage on youtube.... I'll try translating his website, (linked in youtube)

But as a d90 user you must agree, Kholi, that this exact operator would have killed the d90 as far as skew goes.. so it appears there has been some progress

Madmanden
09-17-2008, 02:16 PM
I didn't notice any wobble and the skew wasn't too bad. Seems promising.

wjm
09-17-2008, 02:19 PM
I wonder if he shot 1920x1020 or if he used the lower resolution setting (640x480) which might have some impact on the skew. If this is Full HD then the skew is nearly non-existent! Put this baby on a steadi-cam or tripod and you're OFF!

Crap - there goes $2700 from me... :-(

Andrew Brinkhaus
09-17-2008, 02:19 PM
He also was on a wide lens and without much fast panning. I want to see somebody swish panning back and forth to see how the two compare.

ando
09-17-2008, 02:23 PM
there is no difference between wobble and skew. it's the same effect called rolling shutter

it rolls but less than d90. that's pretty clear. what we need to know is what sort of controls are available in video. so far we now that you can't set the shutter but no indication on locking exposure or other things like EV

Matthew Bennett
09-17-2008, 02:28 PM
My mirror post on REDUSER got slaughtered in the "is there skew to you?" question.

Compared to the d90 though, this is looking pretty good.

Kholi
09-17-2008, 02:29 PM
He also was on a wide lens and without much fast panning. I want to see somebody swish panning back and forth to see how the two compare.

Exactly. I won't trust it til it's in my hands, which don't like anything that's too light.

Matthew Bennett
09-17-2008, 02:33 PM
I also just noticed a moment where the guy panned out the window, and there was a very smooth transition to a lower exposure... that was nice to see as well.

I would buy this over a Scarlet if all the manual controls are there, and the sound is there a bit more...
The thing that gets me is the apparent FIXED BITRATE! Even on the sample clip at DPreview, a bird with a very blank sky in the BG, the compression stayed at the target level! Oh Nikon, if only you were so diligent...

Anhar Miah
09-17-2008, 02:42 PM
How can we be 100% certain that youtube video is actually from a Canon?

In case it is, then it does represent almost zero skew (although, the pans were not that fast, but at that same amount of handheld operation the D90 did show effects of skew)

ando
09-17-2008, 02:43 PM
http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news-16717-EOS+Canon+5D+Mark+II+HANDS+ON+with+Video+&+Pictures+Sample!!!.html

Madmanden
09-17-2008, 02:44 PM
there is no difference between wobble and skew. it's the same effect called rolling shutter
I know it's caused by the rolling shutter. But when you look at D90 footage the RS results in two things: Vertical lines become not-so-vertical when panning, but if you shake the camera (even ever so slightly) up and down, the image 'wobbles'. Hence why I talk about both like they're two separate issues.

Madmanden
09-17-2008, 02:46 PM
http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news-16717-EOS+Canon+5D+Mark+II+HANDS+ON+with+Video+&+Pictures+Sample!!!.html
That video looks very odd. I sure hope it's because all the reporters who touched it caused the settings to be off.

Car3o
09-17-2008, 02:48 PM
can't d/l it

ando
09-17-2008, 02:48 PM
I know it's caused by the rolling shutter. But when you look at D90 footage the RS results in two things: Vertical lines become not-so-vertical when panning, but if you shake the camera (even ever so slightly) up and down, the image 'wobbles'. Hence why I talk about both like they're two separate issues.


the wobble is when you move quickly left-right
the skew is when you move only to a side

the same thing

get the movie in the link above
it has rolling as wobble. it's not much but it is. also it isn't very sharp. like d90 it seems they read only some lines from the cmos. it's really not 1080p as you know 1080p

the colors are freaky and the camera is on auto

photos are ok below iso 3200 i think. above... well it's 21mp...

Elton
09-17-2008, 02:49 PM
I think it's likely that the 5D MKII will have roughly the same amount of rolling shutter issues as their consumer HD cams. (HV30, HF11, etc)

While not ideal, that would be a decent start.

ando
09-17-2008, 02:56 PM
here is 100% crop from the movie

i couldn't find too many sharp frames. the guy moves a lot
http://img201.imagevenue.com/loc47/th_84836_2008-09-17_235152_123_47lo.jpg (http://img201.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=84836_2008-09-17_235152_123_47lo.jpg) http://img219.imagevenue.com/loc69/th_84823_2008-09-17_235202_123_69lo.jpg (http://img219.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=84823_2008-09-17_235202_123_69lo.jpg) http://img163.imagevenue.com/loc929/th_84835_2008-09-17_235209_123_929lo.jpg (http://img163.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=84835_2008-09-17_235209_123_929lo.jpg) http://img232.imagevenue.com/loc371/th_84855_2008-09-17_235222_123_371lo.jpg (http://img232.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=84855_2008-09-17_235222_123_371lo.jpg) http://img43.imagevenue.com/loc993/th_84854_2008-09-17_235236_123_993lo.jpg (http://img43.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=84854_2008-09-17_235236_123_993lo.jpg) http://img160.imagevenue.com/loc1010/th_84870_2008-09-17_235242_123_1010lo.jpg (http://img160.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=84870_2008-09-17_235242_123_1010lo.jpg)

the DR is one of the most strage i've seen.
don't know what a user could do to get that since the camera adjusts itself, it's on auto mode
also there some color banding going on

ando
09-17-2008, 03:15 PM
100% crop from dpreview samples

http://img161.imagevenue.com/loc866/th_85992_2008-09-18_001158_123_866lo.jpg (http://img161.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85992_2008-09-18_001158_123_866lo.jpg) http://img139.imagevenue.com/loc1030/th_85999_2008-09-18_001215_123_1030lo.jpg (http://img139.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85999_2008-09-18_001215_123_1030lo.jpg) http://img126.imagevenue.com/loc1088/th_85977_2008-09-18_001226_123_1088lo.jpg (http://img126.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85977_2008-09-18_001226_123_1088lo.jpg) http://img137.imagevenue.com/loc1001/th_85958_2008-09-18_001239_123_1001lo.jpg (http://img137.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=85958_2008-09-18_001239_123_1001lo.jpg)

do you see the sharpness halo?

Thebes
09-17-2008, 03:21 PM
My impression is that skew is about the same as D90, but there is less jello-vision. I'd probably attribute that to better optical image stabilization, but who knows. I haven't been using my 1 VR lens because the focus ring feels like poo.

I do like that they got the jagged lines fixed, strong lines look nice, without the bizarre aliasing I see in my D90.

ando
09-17-2008, 03:22 PM
they're also 2x more lines :D
what aliasing were you expecting on 5dmk2

ESTEBEVERDE
09-17-2008, 03:33 PM
I didn't notice any wobble and the skew wasn't too bad. Seems promising.


There is some wobble and skew but not like JelloCam90. :)

ando
09-17-2008, 03:53 PM
There is some wobble and skew but not like JelloCam90. :)

what's with those colors anyway

is this some compression result? it looks scary

ESTEBEVERDE
09-17-2008, 04:09 PM
what's with those colors anyway

is this some compression result? it looks scary


I have no idea.

That particular test looked just like harsh high contrast video.


I don't have the slightest idea what's going on there? :huh:

Steve Castle
09-17-2008, 04:36 PM
Perhaps my expectation have been skewed by the D90 (no pun intended), but the Akihabara News video doesn't look nearly as bad as I would have expected.

Neither the 5DII nor D90 are pro cameras, and these are first-generation dSLRs with video. I have an optimistic perspective on these new dSLRs, and mostly where these sensors may end up. Hopefully, as Nikon, Canon, and the others see that there are people very interested in video (and willing to put down money for it) they will address the concerns of users here (24p, maybe compression other then H.264, manual controls, etc.). Can't wait to see what coming year holds.




i couldn't find too many sharp frames. the guy moves a lot

the DR is one of the most strage i've seen.
don't know what a user could do to get that since the camera adjusts itself, it's on auto mode
also there some color banding going on

I think the guy is being instructed by a Canon representitive next to him (the person talking) on how to operate the camera. He seems to be pressing some buttons and taking pictures while the video is running it seems. Its not that great of a video, but luckily there are vertical lines for reference in front of him and he has shakey hands so its a decent video to look for skew. . . I wish he would whip it back and forth for us.

booggerg2
09-17-2008, 08:26 PM
Like I said earlier from simply looking at Canon's examples, the 5DMk2 doesn't have as bad a rolling shutter problem as D90.. much much bettter..

Madmanden
09-17-2008, 11:20 PM
Like I said earlier from simply looking at Canon's examples, the 5DMk2 doesn't have as bad a rolling shutter problem as D90.. much much bettter..
Well, to be honest, the Canon examples were pretty crap to judge from since they were all locked down. The D90 footage also looks great on a tripod.

joe 1008
09-19-2008, 05:36 AM
I'm quite optimistic that the rolling shutter is much better with the 5D. If there is a workaround for the 30p issue (I'm in Europe, 25p is IMPORTANT here and not an esthetical question) this camera could become very useful.

Matthew Bennett
09-19-2008, 08:48 AM
I'm quite optimistic that the rolling shutter is much better with the 5D. If there is a workaround for the 30p issue (I'm in Europe, 25p is IMPORTANT here and not an esthetical question) this camera could become very useful.


Is there a reverse telecine type option for this??

ando
09-19-2008, 09:20 AM
you can only retime it to 24p. just like i've poste those samples of d90 footage in slowmotion (48fps) you can retime 30p to 24p

but that result has less quality than retiming from 25p (like HV20 european versions had 25p which was better than ntsc version of hv20 with 30p). but i really think canon didn't put 24p (or at least 25p) to limit it's high-end usage.

Matthew Bennett
09-19-2008, 04:00 PM
you can only retime it to 24p. just like i've poste those samples of d90 footage in slowmotion (48fps) you can retime 30p to 24p

but that result has less quality than retiming from 25p (like HV20 european versions had 25p which was better than ntsc version of hv20 with 30p). but i really think canon didn't put 24p (or at least 25p) to limit it's high-end usage.


Why do these companies shoot themselves in the foot?

joe 1008
09-20-2008, 09:45 AM
Probably because Canon is working on a RED killer for about 10K. At least that is what I would do if I were Canon.

Bebel
09-20-2008, 06:27 PM
Probably because Canon is working on a RED killer for about 10K. At least that is what I would do if I were Canon.

Agreed. I assume that Canon is working on a full frame XH-camcorder solution. Eventually, Canon wants to capitalize on its EF-lens family, which requires much larger chips.. But for now, that's pure speculation.

StMad
09-20-2008, 08:13 PM
Why do these companies shoot themselves in the foot?


I don't think they are. These new cams will sell like hotcakes, and so will each following iteration, which will get closer and closer to what we want. None of these companies (Red included, to an extent) want to create perfection now. Though if you trust the grabs on Vincent Laforet's blog, maybe perfection will come very soon.

As long as 2k (ish) is all that's needed for the big and small screen, why release a cam that would give us no further reason to upgrade?

John Caballero
09-21-2008, 06:46 AM
Oh, but these guys know what they are doing. They don't get to control the camera world market by shooting themselves in the foot. They make billions of dollars selling imaging equipment my friends. It isn't like they have a small niche in the market, they own the market. They make the cameras that the whole world buys. And they are getting smarter. They just put an extra capability in their higher end still cameras the same way they have been doing with their lower end ones. Nothing much to add to the cost of manufacturing and an extra selling point. They know that will keep their faithful photography base and add video costumers. Is a win win situation for them while they develop the technology. Eventually the convergence of still and video will be perfect and these big companies will make more and more money from it.

smartwombat
11-26-2008, 02:37 PM
Having looked at the two and handled them, I've one key point you may have overlooked. The Canon has an external Mic connector. The Nikon does not. Sure the Nikon has a GPS connector instead, big deal :)

Matthew Bennett
11-26-2008, 07:52 PM
Wow you resurrected an ancient thread!