3d learning, help me decide

[Newman]

ok, i know there's tons of questions and discussion about this,...i did a little bit of research and using Mac, it came down to maya and C4D.

i do a little bit of after effect vfx and motion graphic, but i want to step my game and learn a 3d package.

So the question is: i want to learn a 3d package and give it my soul, what package should i invest in?

keep in mind: - money is no object
- i'm not going to be doing ILM vfx at home, just a few motion graphic, particle, minor but believable vfx for music video and short films, etc


ok, your turn.....

[Mattykins]

I run MAYA on my system. Can't model to save my life. But I use it for it's fluids and particles features. Which are pretty much unparalleled. Though nothing tops RealFlow for water simulation.

I use Maya, Maya is used a lot. I guess it's personal choice. Never used C4D before.

[Derrick_SA]

Well, both of those programs are good, and have extensive training available,

That said, Cinema 4D has has a module called MoGraph, which is a tool set to help you create motion graphics, and is highly regarded in the industry. (http://www.maxon.net/pages/products/modules/mograph/mograph_e.html)

Personally I like lightwave, cause it's a good allrounder. it has a motion graphics content product calles 3D arsenal, but is really more templates, where the C4D mograph is a toolset.

lightwave is also very good with particles, but so are the other 3d Packages

- Derrick

[Everts]

Learn Cinema4d you will not regret it.

[triplej96]

Learn Cinema4d you will not regret it.

I second that the new release R11 is even better. Especially if you use AE.

[benandaim]

I use a combination of C4D and Houdini. C4D is really easy to pick up if your new to 3D. It has a nice context sensitive help system & is awesome for quick and professional results. Houdini on the other hand requires quite a bit more to master but the rewards are definitely worth it. Eg. Unbelieveable dynamics, fluids & particles. Also everything is prodcedural so you can go back and tweak your project after the fact.

[twocik23]

Maya is going to take much longer to learn, but C4D is still a great program just not as complex. Once you've learned it you won't want to switch to any other. Maya offers alot of different methods of modeling, lighting, etc.. and has lots of great features. It's really your choice.



Mattykins Got any of your work online, I'd like to see it ??



:)

[Mattykins]

Twocik23,

I don't right now. I'll have a website up by November and then by January I'll have the Visual Effects department up and running (including my demo real).

And to OP, whatever you chose - the ideas carry over from system to system - just with different ways of getting stuff done.

-Matt

[TowerFan]

From first-hand experience, I'd suggest Lightwave. It's a great package that will do everything you describe. Affordable, tons of tutes and community help on the web, "relatively" easy compared to Maya. You mentioned you don't want to be the next ILM so you don't need Maya. Too complicated for meduim-duty use.

From second-hand experience, go for Cinema 4D. Lots of folks here use it and post their work and it looks like a solid package.

Most packages have free trials. I'd suggest starting there...

[Sad Max]

I'm a great fan of Lightwave, but at this point you might want to look at a package called Modo, which is basically the Lightwave that the programmers and developers wanted to make, but were thwarted by management...

...money no object, I'd lean toward Maya. I have found that for my own purposes Lightwave does most everything I need done, but Maya is a more powerful tool (in terms of detail control), has more and better rendering options, and more professional cachet, which can be useful regardless of the actual job at hand.

You can teach yourself Lightwave. Teaching yourself Maya is much more difficult.

[Newman]

thank you all very much for the feedback,.... if i understand lightwave has better particle system than c4d? but how easy it is to learn? i think i just narrowed the choice to c4d vs lightwave....
xsi also looked fun but that's another story,....

anyway, kepp it coming guys....!

[Sad Max]

Lightwave's particle system - derived from Particle Storm - is the very essence of ease and fine control.

I'm not slamming anyone else's particle systems, but it's one of my more favorite things, in Lightwave.

[oneinfiniteloop]

Download the demo's and play with each.

On a personal note, I've never liked Lightwave's layout, and C4D is artist friendly and easy to use. I started on Maya so I know the other side too.

[Sad Max]

People seem to either really dig Lightwave's structure (like me) or really prefer the sort of 3DSMax/Maya-type interface setup.

Individual taste, plus what one learns on, I guess.

[triplej96]

I will add that I started using lightwave very briefly before I made the switch to cinema and I would have to agree with oneinfiniteloop I hated the whole layout of lightwave.

[Newman]

Thank you all very much, now with that being said,... Once I get a good grip on cinema4d (yeah I decided to go with c4d), how easy or hard will it be switch to the big boys? (maya, Houdini, xsi, max)?


Your turn...

[Everts]

Max and C4d have a lot in common.
It was easier for me to learn C4D because I already had a basic understanding of max.
Actually c4d is one of the big boys; how big will depend on how big of a boy you are .

[Derrick_SA]

Cinema 4D is a big boy (3d Max is the daddy, but also has a crazy price tag)

- Derrick

[Anhar Miah]

I'm silently waiting for Max and Maya to become one, hehe : imagine MayaMax or MaxMaya.


I say try C4D its come in leaps and bound, also I hear good things about Modo to, Maya yea steep learning curve but powerful.

[Everts]

Or YAMAMAX 3D :)
Not gonna happen , because the longer we dream about this the more money autodesk makes.

[Anhar Miah]

very true,

but also autodesk has a habit of "assimulating" into the borg collective..

[Isaac_Brody]

C4D is fairly intuitive, but I find it hard to find decent tutorials for it. I feel like you really have to scrounge for project based tutorials.

I'm learning XSI, and I'm finding modeling in it really intuitive.

[Everts]

C4D is fairly intuitive, but I find it hard to find decent tutorials for it. I feel like you really have to scrounge for project based tutorials.

I'm learning XSI, and I'm finding modeling in it really intuitive.


Does this mean you've never used Google before.:huh:

Try www.c4dcafe.com (http://www.c4dcafe.com)
and www.c4dportal.com (http://www.c4dportal.com/).

[Isaac_Brody]

I've been there, and I know that site well. Yeah there's free training there but it's hard to find specific tutorials geared towards stuff like spaceships, cars...

C4dcafe is good, but it's nowhere near as comprehensive as 3d-Palace.net which focuses overwhelmingly on 3dsmax.

[triplej96]

Hey Isaac a pretty good place for Cinema 4D is
http://www.cineversity.com/

They have some projectbase training there and are going to be focusing more on project base training. Some of their stuff is members only but well worth the admission price.

[Everts]

True, modeling in c4d is a pain compared to max at least for me.

[Isaac_Brody]

Working with materials is way easier in C4d though. Using nodes in xsi takes an adjustment.

[Gord.T]

True, modeling in c4d is a pain compared to max at least for me.

Not sure why. Guess its what's your used to.But I'm sure it's just because the tools are different. I've modelled in max and its not the same in C4D so I can see that being a pain converting over.

Yep, just a matter of getting used to what all of the tools do.

[gabbs]

If your really serious about 3D take a look at www.escapestudios.com they have just launched an online course for learning maya.

[Gord.T]

Some modeling things C4D cant do. I just ran into one but found a work around that took 2 steps instead of 1.

But what a lot of people forget, as with other programs, is you can write scripts to make things do what you want. I find myself exporting .obj files (txt) and manipulting the data in my own c++ programs, then exporting back.

Point is, 3D apps are just another tool to reach the end result.
Maya is the big dog, and I'm trying to learn it. C4D though is a piece of cake and is at least a good launching pad. And the techniques apply to all platforms, so, I'd say C4D if you're an artist.

[twocik23]

Why not just try Blender for free and see if you even like this 3D stuff. :) I'll tell you it's not something you can just jump into, it takes alot of time, reading, and well just playing with any of the programs to get good. I've been using Maya for about 3 years now (maybe 4), and I'm still learning stuff.... Lots of stuff !!


So try the free one out first, before you spend money on something that you might not even enjoy.


:)

[oneinfiniteloop]

IMO, Blenders workflow is somewhat counterintuitive to how pro, paid software works. If Blender was the first 3D software I picked up I probably wouldn't have made it that far, and this is coming from someone who started on Maya which is complex in it's own right.

Workflow is something that most open source software can definitely improve upon.s

[Ironman]

ok, i know there's tons of questions and discussion about this,...i did a little bit of research and using Mac, it came down to maya and C4D.

i do a little bit of after effect vfx and motion graphic, but i want to step my game and learn a 3d package.

So the question is: i want to learn a 3d package and give it my soul, what package should i invest in?

keep in mind: - money is no object
- i'm not going to be doing ILM vfx at home, just a few motion graphic, particle, minor but believable vfx for music video and short films, etc


ok, your turn.....

Maya FTW mate.

[handsome pete]

Funny, everyone is saying C4d is much less complex than Maya. I'm sure it is, but just found it amusing because I'm pretty good with Maya but just started teaching myself C4d today because that's what the new company I'm at uses. I'm probably just so used to the Maya interface, but my initial reaction to C4d was frustration.

[oneinfiniteloop]

Funny, everyone is saying C4d is much less complex than Maya. I'm sure it is, but just found it amusing because I'm pretty good with Maya but just started teaching myself C4d today because that's what the new company I'm at uses. I'm probably just so used to the Maya interface, but my initial reaction to C4d was frustration.

As was mine when I switched from Maya, and I switched voluntarily so I could've went back at any time. Once I got into it and found out how it worked I was much happier with the results. The only thing I felt like I was missing was mental ray since I had gotten pretty good at decent renders. AR is good enough, and now with it's new improvements and/or VRay (neither of which I've tried), that argument may be a moot point.