HPX170 User Manual and Specs Sheet

[LuckyStudio 13]

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=280234&catGroupId=34401&surfModel=AG-HPX170

Get them here, Nothing beats studying the User Manual of a camera.

p/s: Isnt it time we have a new hpx170 section or lump it up with all the hpx series camera ?

[Barry_Green]

It has much more in common with the HVX200 than it has with any of the other HPX cameras though.

[TwistedLincoln]

p/s: Isnt it time we have a new hpx170 section or lump it up with all the hpx series camera ?

I vote for giving it a seperate section. It's bound to be at least as popular as the HVX...

[Everts]

Sweet.
Now some Footy:)

[Everts]

As mentioned on the link above

Overvieuw

-20 variable frame rate steps include: 12, 15, 18, 20, 21, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 30, 32, 34, 36, 40, 44, 48, 54, 60

Is the 25 correct Barry or are they talking about the European version or the upgrade ?


Keeping my fingers crossed:)

[TwistedLincoln]

I just downloaded and read the manual, and there's a listing in the "Warnings" section (page 91) that I found odd:

"Run Down Card -- The maximum number of overwrites on the P2 card has been exceeded. Operation continues. However, recording or playback may not operate correctly. It is recommended that you replace the P2 card with another one."

So can we assume that the P2 card keeps some kind of internal counter as to how many times it has been used / formatted? This is the first I've heard of this. How many overwrites is the card rated for before such a message will appear? Is there a way to check your cards to see how many "writes" (or whatever the unit of measurement here is called) they have?

[Barry_Green]

As mentioned on the link above

Overvieuw

-20 variable frame rate steps include: 12, 15, 18, 20, 21, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 30, 32, 34, 36, 40, 44, 48, 54, 60

Is the 25 correct Barry or are they talking about the European version or the upgrade ?


Keeping my fingers crossed:)
Yes there's 25, but it's not PAL-compatible 25.000. It's something like 24.975 or something. And if you choose 24pN @ 25fps, you don't get audio.

I think it's unfortunate that they put it in there because it's bound to cause a lot of confusion. If you want *real* 25fps, you have to spring for the upgrade to switchability.

[Barry_Green]

How many overwrites is the card rated for before such a message will appear? Is there a way to check your cards to see how many "writes" (or whatever the unit of measurement here is called) they have?
Earliest cards have been out for, what, four years or so. In heavy news use, it might be time for some of them to hit the 100,000 read/write guarantee. I've never seen it or heard of it happening, but I guess it's mathematically possible to exceed 100,000 read/write cycles within about 4 years.

[Everts]

Thanks for clearing that up. "sigh"

[LuckyStudio 13]

Barry,

I think in your hpx170 tutorial you should have a section on how to use waveform and vector scope effectively and practically. This important subject wasnt even covered in the manual at all.

[Barry_Green]

Yes, in the new HVX+HPX Book, I devote about 8 pages to waveform/vectorscope usage, including pictures. Even so, I would describe what I did as an "introduction" to using those tools. I hope that I provided enough information that people will understand how to use them and will be able to employ them to get much better results from their video. I didn't go into all the things that waveforms and vectorscopes can do, largely because the HPX's waveform doesn't do RGB Parade and features such as that, it's primarily a monochrome luminance readout. But hopefully people will find it a good base to go from that will help them understand how to get good solid footage better than they otherwise ever would have! :)

[LuckyStudio 13]

:thumbup: That is why we all love you Barry ! :dankk2:


Yes, in the new HVX+HPX Book, I devote about 8 pages to waveform/vectorscope usage, including pictures. Even so, I would describe what I did as an "introduction" to using those tools. I hope that I provided enough information that people will understand how to use them and will be able to employ them to get much better results from their video. I didn't go into all the things that waveforms and vectorscopes can do, largely because the HPX's waveform doesn't do RGB Parade and features such as that, it's primarily a monochrome luminance readout. But hopefully people will find it a good base to go from that will help them understand how to get good solid footage better than they otherwise ever would have! :)

[Ted Spencer]

Earliest cards have been out for, what, four years or so. In heavy news use, it might be time for some of them to hit the 100,000 read/write guarantee. I've never seen it or heard of it happening, but I guess it's mathematically possible to exceed 100,000 read/write cycles within about 4 years.

You'd be a pretty darn busy cameraman if you did, and consequently probably flush enough to afford it.

The math works out to just over 68 r/w cycles every single day for the entire four years...

[TwistedLincoln]

The math works out to just over 68 r/w cycles every single day for the entire four years...

I wonder what qualifies as a "read write cycle"? Is is filling up the card completely, and then formatting it, or does shooting one 10 second clip and then deleting it count as a cycle? If it does, even 100,000 cycles could add up fast, depending on how you shoot.

Academic debates aside, I seriously doubt this will be an issue any time soon. I suppose it's on the same lines as wearing out compact flash cards in a digital camera-- sure, it can happen, but by the time it does you've almost certainly already bought a larger card...

[Jan_Crittenden]

I wonder what qualifies as a "read write cycle"? Is is filling up the card completely, and then formatting it, or does shooting one 10 second clip and then deleting it count as a cycle? If it does, even 100,000 cycles could add up fast, depending on how you shoot.



A read write cycle is one that fills the card completely and then you off-load that card. If you only use 4 minutes say of a 16GB card, and offload it is only 1/4 of a full read-write.

Hope that makes sense.

Best,

Jan

[wgzn]

i have ZERO information to validate this, and i DO NOT want to start any negative buzz - but i have this uneasy fear that the 170 is being rushed to market.

i remember back in the apple quadra / power pc days. the 840av came out and rocked. one of the best machines apple ever made - everyone loved it (kinda like the hvx200). then less than a year later the Power PC 8100 (or whatever model that was) came out and everyone feverishly lapped it up only to find out that although it was faster-newer-better, it was fatally flawed and would NEVER work properly with the NLEs of the day... and the buyer was more or less screwed.

we're all so feverishly waiting for the 170. i hope we dont see a repeat of that kind of situation.

i mean the HVX, from pre-release pic one - i couldnt stop looking at it! though small in stature, appeared to be solid-built like a brick shi##er. and in my experience, it WAS! but every pic ive seem of the 170, it just looks poorly designed and slapped together from an industrial design standpoint. and the short time between the release of the 200a and the 170 kinda scares me. because really from an overall quality of end result standpoint, a 170 (from everything ive read here and elsewhere) is just a 200a without a tape drive. i know, i know, the 170 has a lot of really cool features. features that i plan to enjoy a great deal - but how many of them are deal breakers when it comes down to final end product? not enough to change your life.

i guess some of this comes down to two things:
1. my background as a designer. i just cant believe the same minds who built the elegant hvx200 also designed the 170.
2. being burned before by "bleeding-edge" technology - once bitten, as they say...

[Barry_Green]

Hold the 170, then go back to the 200, and you'll be shocked how much better the 170 is, in design and ergonomics.

The 170, rather than being "rushed to market", is the 200 replacement that's probably been in design from the day the 200 shipped. The 200A is merely a chip upgrade, the 170 is the true successor.

[puredrifting]

If Barry says it is solid and well designed, good enough for me. One thing about Barry, he does not sugar coat it when he doesn't like something.

My HPX is on order.

Dan

[wgzn]

oh yes. that reply DOES go a LONG WAY to relieving my fears... i hope nobody took my post as reactionary...

just again, once bitten...

[kyle_doris]

the HPX will be my next camera. i'm certain of that... after using the EX1 extensively for the past few weeks and owning a 200 "Classic", my choice will be the 170. everything about the camera seems like it's what I orginally wanted from the HVX!

anyone want to buy a 200? ;-)

[Jan_Crittenden]

i have ZERO information to validate this, and i DO NOT want to start any negative buzz - but i have this uneasy fear that the 170 is being rushed to market.

i guess some of this comes down to two things:
1. my background as a designer. i just cant believe the same minds who built the elegant hvx200 also designed the 170.
2. being burned before by "bleeding-edge" technology - once bitten, as they say...

First, I explained what a read write cycle is. Then you say that it means it is being rushed to market? This camera has been under development since end of 2006. Do you think for a second that maybe we put that information in there becaseu it because we have had people ask us about what happens when the card nears its end of life? Is that a bad thing? I don't think so. Perhaps they should have included the definition of a read write cycle, but that is a different question, and I answered that.

Frankly the people that designed the 200 designed the 170, and it as sweet a little camera as you can find. Since you have never used one, and pehaps never seen a finished one, perhaps you might be a little hasty in your trashing of the design engineers that too many of the DVXUser ideas and put them into play with this camera.

This camera is not bleeding edge, it is a P2 camera. Some operational concept are new to a camera of this size and price range, but not bleeding edge.

Hope that helps,

Jan

[MikeGunter]

the HPX will be my next camera. i'm certain of that... after using the EX1 extensively for the past few weeks and owning a 200 "Classic", my choice will be the 170. everything about the camera seems like it's what I orginally wanted from the HVX!

anyone want to buy a 200? ;-)

Same here.

I had the opportunity to look at a 170 at Orlando last week and plan to get one as soon as I can.

Terrific camera. I might hold on to the HVX200, but frankly, for me tape is dead.

[Justyn]

where was it in Orlando? I was out of the country for the past few weeks. I'd like to check it out. cheers

[Jan_Crittenden]

where was it in Orlando? I was out of the country for the past few weeks. I'd like to check it out. cheers


It was at the WEVA conference. No longer there.

Best,

Jan

[Justyn]

darn.. I was in Scotland and would have loved that... well I'll have to check it out another time. Thanks Jan.

[crs127]

the camera comes with a 16gig card! yay!

[n8ture]

Smaller, lighter better picture, better focusing aids than the original HVX200. All I know is I can't wait and I hope they ship in September cause I have a great gig I could use it on around the first weekend in October!

[Jockomo]

...but every pic ive seem of the 170, it just looks poorly designed and slapped together from an industrial design standpoint. ...


There are pictures out there that were taken early on of a version that was just a mock up or something. There is a little scratch on the camera in those pictures near the eyepiece I think.
Those do look pretty bad, but they are not of the real thing.

You may be seeing those pictures and thinking it's the final production model.

[Justyn]

the HPX will be my next camera. i'm certain of that... after using the EX1 extensively for the past few weeks and owning a 200 "Classic", my choice will be the 170. everything about the camera seems like it's what I orginally wanted from the HVX!

anyone want to buy a 200? ;-)


why didn't you dig the EX1? I'm trying to comtemplate which is my next cam and course I'm partial to the 170 since I have an HVX, but I like to review all options and getting someone's oppion who has used and or owns both is what I want.. and not just someone who has one. I did get to mess around with the EX1 for like 5 minutes and the LCD impressed the hell out of me, but I'm not sure of the ergonomics.. seems unbalenced and heavy.. any info would be appreciated..

[puredrifting]

Justyn:

I have been shooting quite a bit with the EX-1 lately. Here are some random observations...

1. EX-1 is sharp as hell. Almost too sharp IMHO
2. Ergonomics are horrendously bad. Shooting handheld in heat all day at a baseball game was torture, my wrist was killing me.
3. The colors on all of the Pannys seem more appealing to me. The Sony colors are just "okay", even with a lot of tweaking of the image parameters
4. JelloVision rears it's ugly head quite a bit. In most situations, it would not be noticed but once you fixate on it like I have, you can see it in many shots to a certain degree. Not the best camera for whip pans or tracking fast moving objects.
5. The LCD, lens, lens controls are way better than the Pannys although I have not yet experienced the new tweaks on the LCD on the HPX-170. The lens on the Sony is better than the Pannys.

Like everything else, every tool is some sort of compromise. I really dig the EX-1 for interviews. Green screen is pretty good with it but overall, I prefer my HVX and I am sure tht I will like the HPX even better. I could have sold my HVX to get an EX-1 but didn't. That tells me I still like the Pannys better. YMMV.

Dan

[kyle_doris]

why didn't you dig the EX1? I'm trying to comtemplate which is my next cam and course I'm partial to the 170 since I have an HVX, but I like to review all options and getting someone's oppion who has used and or owns both is what I want.. and not just someone who has one. I did get to mess around with the EX1 for like 5 minutes and the LCD impressed the hell out of me, but I'm not sure of the ergonomics.. seems unbalenced and heavy.. any info would be appreciated..

I did dig the EX1, i just wouldn't buy one. it has resolution for days and the LCD is unmatched. there are some things that bother me about the camera; it's very uncomfortable to hold... not just very. another issue is that it seems like everything is made from much cheaper material. the SxS cards are as flimsy as my eSATA card... as opposed to P2, which are tanks. XDCAM EX takes a very long time to transcode if you don't want to edit native.

if the EX1 and the HPX170 were the same price than i might consider it. i just really like the HVX and the HPX is a lighter, feature rich version. if i need resolution i'll rent something or wait and see what happens with scarlet.

[wgzn]

hey jan, i clearly struck a nerve with you - and i TOTALLY did NOT intend to. see below...


First, I explained what a read write cycle is. Then you say that it means it is being rushed to market? - my comment just came after yours, it wasnt in intended as a response to your explanation...


Frankly the people that designed the 200 designed the 170, and it as sweet a little camera as you can find. Since you have never used one, and pehaps never seen a finished one, perhaps you might be a little hasty in your trashing of the design - certainly so! and as i said, i have no info to back up my comment - i just thought (from the pics ive seen) that it didnt look as physically well designed as the 200/200a


Hope that helps, - yes, indeed - both yours and barrys (people who have actually TOUCHED ONE) comments have helped put my fears at ease.

again, never intended to cause any stir or ruffle any feathers - im in line to buy one the day they come out.

[mrbrycel]

This might be a little off topic, but I didn't want to waste a whole new thread with a question that could be answered by one response.

Is the HPX170 going to be one of those things that sells out and won't be available til months later. Will I not be able to get one after the release unless I get on a waiting list now?

[MikeGunter]

- im in line to buy one the day they come out.

Hi,

The line forms here. :beer:

Like most tools, the doodads that have the most appeal to you, are the ones that you use the most; the odds and ends on the 170 are such refinements to a terrific camera.

Panasonic listens and that matters.

[Barry_Green]

Is the HPX170 going to be one of those things that sells out and won't be available til months later. Will I not be able to get one after the release unless I get on a waiting list now?
That all depends on demand, I don't think anyone outside of Panasonic knows the answer. In the early days of the DVX and HVX there were waiting lists, it may be the same this time or, perhaps, Panasonic has anticipated this and is building a larger initial order? We'll find out next month. :)

[shorelinedigital]

I will say that as an HVX owner who has touched a 170 that if there is a wait it is worth it.

Very impressed with the ergonomics and am sure many will be.

[Justyn]

Justyn:

I have been shooting quite a bit with the EX-1 lately. Here are some random observations...

1. EX-1 is sharp as hell. Almost too sharp IMHO
2. Ergonomics are horrendously bad. Shooting handheld in heat all day at a baseball game was torture, my wrist was killing me.
3. The colors on all of the Pannys seem more appealing to me. The Sony colors are just "okay", even with a lot of tweaking of the image parameters
4. JelloVision rears it's ugly head quite a bit. In most situations, it would not be noticed but once you fixate on it like I have, you can see it in many shots to a certain degree. Not the best camera for whip pans or tracking fast moving objects.
5. The LCD, lens, lens controls are way better than the Pannys although I have not yet experienced the new tweaks on the LCD on the HPX-170. The lens on the Sony is better than the Pannys.

Like everything else, every tool is some sort of compromise. I really dig the EX-1 for interviews. Green screen is pretty good with it but overall, I prefer my HVX and I am sure tht I will like the HPX even better. I could have sold my HVX to get an EX-1 but didn't. That tells me I still like the Pannys better. YMMV.

Dan


Cheers for that. I do think ya have to pick 'em both up and hopefully get to shoot with them both, and maybe deal with the footage in post. I know what the HVX delivers and if the EX was crap to handheld, and post was a nightmare, then I wouldn't care if the image was so sharp I got my eyeballs cut everytime I watched it. Soon I'll be able to see 'em both