Screen Acting As A 'Horrible Profession'? [Archive] - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

seunosewa

07-30-2008, 01:11 AM

Some select quotes from the crafty screenwriting blog (http://www.craftyscreenwriting.com/FAQ.html#star):

I cannot stress seriously enough: acting is a horrible, awful profession. It is a miserable way of life. Acting itself can be creatively enriching, but unlike writing, you can't act all by yourself, so practically speaking actors spend 99% of their time trying to find somewhere they can act. A tiny few extremely lucky people, some of them talented, some of them crafted, actually make a living at it. A surprising number of them have an "in" to the business. Is it any wonder Gwyneth Paltrow is successful? Her mom's Blythe Danner. Isabella Rosselini is Ingrid Bergman's daughter by director Roberto Rosselini. Melanie Griffith is Tippi Hedren's daughter. Nastassja Kinski is Klaus Kinski's daughter. Liza Minelli is the daughter of Judy Garland. Mira Sorvino is Paul Sorvino's daughter. Emilio Estevez is Martin Sheen's son, as is Charlie Sheen. Angelina Jolie is Jon Voigt's daughter. Kate Hudson is Goldie Hawn's daughter. Warren Beatty is Shirley MacLaine's kid brother. Kiefer Sutherland is Donald Sutherland's son. Nicholas Cage is Francis Coppola's nephew. Carrie Fisher is Debbie Reynold's daughter. Drew Barrymore comes from an acting dynasty that stretches back to the 19th Century. And those are just the children of famous actors. Maggie Gyllenhaal, for example, is the daughter of director Stephen Gyllenhaal. Sure, they can all act real good, but they also went to all the right parties growing up. You didn't.

I had a dear friend who was extremely talented and beautiful. She worked hard and became an extraordinarily crafted actress. If you had one tenth as much craft and talent as she did, you'd be lucky. After fifteen years of trying to make it, she had been in one tv commercial, an "Unsolved Mysteries" segment, and a lot of free theater. She finally gave up.

What happens is that people take acting classes, and the teachers are very encouraging, and you get a sense of family from being with your classmates, and they encourage you. Teachers have no incentive to be honest with you about your chances. Why would they want you to stop acting? So they string you along. Your classmates don't want to confront their own odds, either. It is all but impossible to get honest feedback about your chances of making it.

You no doubt think I'm being too harsh. But as a Holocaust survivor told a producer I know about Schindler's List, "it's pretty accurate, but it only showed the nice parts." The movies like to show how glamorous the lives of successful actors are; they celebrate all the sacrifices these people made in order to get where they are today. No one makes movies about unsuccessful actors. Their lives are dreary, dreary hell. For every Hilary Swank who lived with her mother in a car for a year, there are a thousand actors you will never see who also lived with their mothers in their cars, for years, and came away with nothing.

Don't do it. Don't go there. Find some other way to evade the mundane in your life.

He goes on to suggest that anyone who really loves acting but was not born to a Hollywood heavyweight is better off starting a local theatre group than trying to become a screen actor - that at least that way you actually get to act.

What's your take on this? Passionate and/or insightful responses are strongly encouraged!

tasialabastro

07-30-2008, 01:37 AM

All I can say is, if you have a dream and a passion. Then the next step is to set realistic goals to help achieve them.

Like any craft, if you're getting into it to "Make it big" then time becomes the enemy. If, however, you're enjoying it and spending time to develop yourself then there's always a reward for someone who works hard. Because hard work makes luck. I suppose it doesn't hurt at all to know someone who knows someone either...

I'm not saying that his female friend didn't work hard, but success is relative. It's a tough business I understand that much, and maybe all she needed was to relocate...who knows.

GageFX

07-30-2008, 02:57 AM

He named a little more than a handful of famous people spawned by famous people. Great. How about the thousands more that weren't?

It is an "against the odds" endeavor, but so are most things worth pursuing. I looked up his IMDB profile. Not that impressive. Strikes me as someone who is a bit too bitter about their life and needs to shatter other's dreams.

Now, I'm all for being realistic and being clear with people about what they can expect, but it's a severly broken person that seeks to take someone's dreams away.

Richard J. Johnson

07-30-2008, 03:54 AM

Wil Smith
Sam Jackson
Denzell Washington
George Clooney
Brad Pitt
Tom Cruise
Don Cheadle

Are they spawned from celebs?

jls4

07-30-2008, 07:47 AM

This is how I see it for Actors and everybody else in the "Outside-Hollywood" World. Surround yourself with the best people you can and work towards being better yourself.

We all have it hard, not just actors. In fact, Actors have it easier, but maybe they went about it in the wrong way. Example: One of my actors has been in 3 feature hollywood films (small parts), over 20 shorts, 3 plays, the lead in my feature and the lead in another indie. (both indie's are pretty good). What helped him? He didn't run to Hollywood before he built himself up. He stayed in Atlanta - learned the ropes, got better, built a resume, made connections, then went to LA. It's better for an Actor to go to a large city and start, than to run to LA. (Miami, Atlanta, Chicago, Houston, DC, New York, etc) all these areas have a "real" film community - although small. The actors can cultivate their skills and try to connect with upcoming directors.

Here in Atlanta, several actors hooked up with Tyler Perry. When certain actors turned their back on Tyler, the cuter ones that HAD to get paid, the more regular ones stayed by his side. As he grew into what we know today, he didn't forget them. And now they are acting and getting paid.

Actors are in a conundrum because no one wants to tell them what they really need to do or they are un sure of what really works, because actors get their "big break" in so many ways.

What I encouage actors to do is just find the people who are doing things. Where the production quality/scripts are getting better with each project. Those who are talking 2, 3, 4 projects not just the one they are currently working on. Be a part, Actors need to invest in good ideas (their money) - become producers - PAs. Make themsevles invaluable and constantly work towards being a better actor with a "great look"

This way when the directors/producers/writers finally get their big break - they'll ride those coattails into their big break. If the people never get one, then they'll have a great resume and can try at hollywood.

There's 2 people in my first distributed movie that left for Hollywood. Within a month, both of them had landed a gig. One guy was in a string of commercials about Deodorant.

And remember actors have to be GOOD, especially women. Unfortunately it's harder for women.

Mark Harris

07-30-2008, 08:13 AM

Wil Smith
Sam Jackson
Denzell Washington
George Clooney
Brad Pitt
Tom Cruise
Don Cheadle

Are they spawned from celebs?

Clooney is.

And if not Will Smith, his kid certainly is...:)

Noiz2

07-30-2008, 10:42 AM

As someone who spent many years in theatre, though mostly not as an actor, I think his assessment is correct as far as it goes. But he leaves out some crucial stuff. Like theatre and film is a big extended family. A lot of actors have closer ties with other actors than any of their family. The arts are not so much a job as a lifestyle and so it's hard to judge by "typical" standards. Compared to a "real" job acting SUCKS, no stability exposing yourself to just awful crushing and often unfounded criticism total lack of understanding of what you do by pretty much everyone who isn't in the biz (and even by a lot of them). And the general impression by those on the "outside" that it's all fun and games and your not serious because you don't do any "work".
But you also have a community that is very supportive, folks who have laid it on the line in public to help you out when you needed it. Massive adrenaline rushes. Life may be hard but it's not boring. Sure connections help but anyone who is working should be developing those. If your born with them it gets you started, if daddy keeps hiring you well that helps a lot. But in the end if your working your meeting people, and those people are connections. If your a good salesman and pursue those contacts it generally pays off. The reasons people "give up" and leave generally either because they are not good salesmen and aren't making those connections pay off, they can't take the stress anymore, the arts are EXTREMELY stressful even for those who are successful. I have worked in the arts pretty much all my working life. I'm not a particularly good salesman, though I have done OK at times. I had no connections going in, and know a lot of people now. If I were better at selling myself I would probably have a bigger house etc. But ... Making the phone call and showing up is 90% of getting the job, very hard work is 90% of keeping it. I've had a few "real jobs" in my life and find them very relaxing. Everyone else at the "real jobs" seems to get pretty stressed out working, but compared to the arts it's a cakewalk. But in the end I don't think I could do it for the rest of my life with out going whacko or having some very consuming hobby.
In the end complaining about the hard life of an actor is a little like complaining about the hard life of a monk. Your not likely to be a big star (Pope) but that's not primarily why your there.

-JunK-

08-02-2008, 04:41 PM

Rubbish. Screen actor is such a general term, what this guy posts is becoming the next Harrison Ford... which... mind you... he was not "spawned" from any connection and he struggled for a long time VERY long, and gave up almost, was a carpenter and we know the story with Star Wars and American Graffiti. This doesn't happen often but...

"IF you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two imposter's just the same..."

"IF you can force your heart and nerve and sinew,
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so Hold On, when there is nothing in you
Except the will which says to them, Hold On!"

Not everyone will get to the success of him or any big name actor... that's not what actings all about. There are many many levels and it's tough, hard, you need a little luck, no you need a lot -

It MAY take a lifetime, it takes a thick skin to "make it". What IS making it anyways? To everyone it;s different not everyone has the ambition to be Brad Pitt. Sometimes people fight against what they are. Making this a career is hard work, heartache, heartburn... and maybe takes hard cold reality, you may not be the next Christian Bale, but that doesn't mean you can't make something out of it... truth is you may fail in the end, but you'll definitely fail if you don't try.

tasialabastro

08-02-2008, 05:29 PM

Tom Marshall

08-03-2008, 01:52 PM

It's definitely not your standard "work your way through college and up the corporate ladder" type of job. You have to love it to do it. You really have to be an artist and understand all of the artistic stuff (most people simply don't) in order to do this. You can't do this to be rich or famous, and if you are, you're probably pursuing the wrong profession. If you want to be rich, be a banker. If you want to be famous, be a politician.

As long as I can scrape by and be a working actor, I'll be satisfied. I'll keep striving for the really good roles and hopefully, one day, I'll get to the point where I do get the good roles and get to work with other great people. If I could get to that point and still have people (the general movie-going public, not the people that hire actors) not know who I am, I'll be happy...

tasialabastro

08-03-2008, 04:01 PM

As long as I can scrape by and be a working actor, I'll be satisfied.

I feel the same way. I'm more interested in flexing my imagination than my wallet. Not to say that more spending money wouldn't be great, but being able to create and play with ideas is where I find myself most pleased. My parents, however, are still scratching their heads over this one.

GageFX

08-03-2008, 05:14 PM

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31T4YJT0GEL._SL500_AA240_.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI0dCVwdedE)

Nathyn

08-03-2008, 05:36 PM

Actors come back from Hollywood with nothing but spite. I had one of my actors tell me flat out, "Don't got there [Hollywood/LA], the people are fake and the place stinks." (Or pretty much something to that extent). I've had friends who went there and things started happening for them ASAP, as if it was destiny, but they would not stay. They were older and scared to leave it all behind, not knowing what may happen. I believe this person will make it if they move out there. If not I believe they would at least like it more.

I know others who've left it all behind, one girl I know won "Fight for Fame" and has been in all kinds of things. Is she making a living? No she works temp gigs, but also gets acting gigs and has and agent. Why her? She's really smart and can type 90 wpm so if push comes to shove there's always work for her.

Another girl I know knew (she wasn't an actress) had never used Final Cut Pro. My producer needed a vacuum cleaner and trader his old version of FCP for her vacuum. Within about four weeks she had learned FCP and was working as an editor making real money.

I don't know. A lot of people go and a lot of people fail. Most of the people I know who went, succeeded in some way or at least are happy. If I could make a living in LA I'd love to be there just to make films (even though the Corrando thread makes it seem like Hell on earth to do so out there) and be able to get actors so easily. Chicago is not New York and certainly not LA. The acting community is small. Every summer certain directors come here and shoot the latest Batman, Spiderman or Will Ferrel-esque movie here but actor do come here to make it. LA is where I would love to work (but not live). My advice is have a skill you can make money at then move to LA. Do temp work if you can get it do what you can but don't give up.

-Nate

Tom Marshall

08-04-2008, 02:02 PM

Well, it really depends on how much the person wants to make it as an actor. If it's not really in their heart, sure, they're going to give up after a year or 2 and move back to BFE and cry about how "the people are fake and the place stinks." While that may be true, tt's not about that. It's about *needing* to do this. If you really need to do this, then Hollywood won't dissuade you.

Yes, a lot of people fail. Those same people don't bust their asses for 10+ years in a genuine effort to "make it". That's really what it takes. If you have an interesting look, any amount of talent, and are willing to put in whatever amount of time that's required to make it happen, then the odds are very good that you'll be able to be a working actor. All it really takes is time... and a genuine effort. If you're not willing to go to every audition or really search for an agent, then no, your chances aren't that great.

GageFX

08-04-2008, 02:08 PM

I've had friends who went there and things started happening for them ASAP, as if it was destiny, but they would not stay.

http://www.buddy-icons.info/content/smileys/yahoo_silly.gif

08-04-2008, 06:28 PM

I once heard someone say, and I'm paraphrasing a bit, "If you can imagine yourself doing anything other than acting, then do that instead."

This is really isn't the kind of career that people seeking fame should pursue. If you are a talented and passionate actor, by all means, go for it. You'll never know unless you try. It will more than likely be a struggle for survival. Perhaps for many years. And you'll be lucky to make a living, much less become a "star."

I don't mean to sound discouraging, but prepare for one hell of an uphill battle!

A lot of people like to trash-talk LA. I like it, actually. It has its good and its bad. For me, I focus on the good. And for the most part, LA has been good to me. Don't let the city drag you down. Utilize it and enjoy it for what it is (just like any other place).

GageFX

08-04-2008, 06:39 PM

Don't let the city drag you down.

It's just a city. It is what you make of it. There are many, MANY millions of people here that work and live outside of "entertainment", yet they get along fine. And if you want to work in film and TV, then this is the place. Sure you CAN elsewhere, but that is limiting your opportunities.

08-06-2008, 08:18 AM

jls4

08-06-2008, 08:50 AM

It's just a city. It is what you make of it. There are many, MANY millions of people here that work and live outside of "entertainment", yet they get along fine. And if you want to work in film and TV, then this is the place. Sure you CAN elsewhere, but that is limiting your opportunities.

I disagree! 100% Your opportunities are limited by You and You alone. If you are a one talent type of person then yes you'd better head to LA. If you're an actor and you don't want to put your own money up, help produce, or such, yes head to LA. But if you're about product and willing to work to get it, you don't need LA.

I'm not knocking California. I'm not knocking LA, but to say you're limited because you like where you live and want to grwo there, is crazy. More people are moving to my area (Atlanta) all the time. And as soon as we can get 5 good prod companies that produce movies regularly, I'm sure we won't loose many people to LA anymore.

jls4

08-06-2008, 09:01 AM

and maybe takes hard cold reality, you may not be the next Christian Bale, but that doesn't mean you can't make something out of it... truth is you may fail in the end, but you'll definitely fail if you don't try.

I think it's interesting to point out Christian Bale who for a while was going downhill. Unfortunately for many actors, (which to me is the hardest part) they tend to be associated with the reception of a movie. If the movie is bad, then the actor is bad. Let an actor with only an okay PR team get into a stream of bad movies, say a la Jude Law or Guy Pierce. Both of these guys are awesome. Guy Pierce is scary good. Yet you're not seeing them pop up in the larger movies anymore because of a string of bad ones. doesn't make them bad actors, really makes them suffer because the cards they were given weren't that good.

Sadly, most actors tend to forget their roots when they are on hard times. They forget to jump into an independent film that has a little punch. Or if they do go back to indie's they quickly abandon them as soon as money starts coming back in.

Christina Ricci (who I think is awesome) came back with Black Snake Moan it got her the Speed Racer job. She was looking at Wackowski Brothers/Matrix/Money then what happened Speed Racer flops and now if she doesn't find a good movie soon, she'll be back to where she started.

GageFX

08-06-2008, 05:20 PM

And as soon as we can get 5 good prod companies that produce movies regularly, I'm sure we won't loose many people to LA anymore.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or you can come to LA where there is immensely more opportunity to work. I dont care if you come to LA or not. Not true. I wish people would stay out. But to say you can have the same opportunity anywhere? It's just not so.

What you are making is excuses to not come to LA. When you have an entire industry here with 1000s of agencies and 1000s of casting sessions a day for 95+% of the movies being made in the country as well as TV and a very healthy stage community.... and you are waiting for FIVE production companies to make it to Atlanta? What?

The fewer transplants we have, the better, though. Tommy is enough to deal with.

tasialabastro

08-06-2008, 07:45 PM

I'll be there soon!

GageFX

08-06-2008, 07:49 PM

http://www.buddy-icons.info/content/smileys/yahoo_cry.gif

tasialabastro

08-06-2008, 08:08 PM

I can't stop laughing at that, Gage.

:-Laugh(DBG):

Tom Marshall

08-06-2008, 08:18 PM

I'll be there soon!

Cool. When will you be heading this way?

GageFX

08-06-2008, 08:32 PM

Oh.....so sorry..... LA's closed. http://www.buddy-icons.info/content/smileys/yahoo_bye.gif Try ATL.

Tom Marshall

08-06-2008, 08:33 PM

ATL isn't open yet. They only have four production companies.

jls4

08-07-2008, 05:55 AM

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or you can come to LA where there is immensely more opportunity to work. I dont care if you come to LA or not. Not true. I wish people would stay out. But to say you can have the same opportunity anywhere? It's just not so.

What you are making is excuses to not come to LA. When you have an entire industry here with 1000s of agencies and 1000s of casting sessions a day for 95+% of the movies being made in the country as well as TV and a very healthy stage community.... and you are waiting for FIVE production companies to make it to Atlanta? What?

The fewer transplants we have, the better, though. Tommy is enough to deal with.

Do your own thing. But I feel like you have to have a plan. RRodriguez, George Lucas, Spike Lee and many others have found their way outside of LA. To say you have to stay in LA is crazy. Good work is good work, it doesn't matter where it's coming from. More movies are starting to be made overseas and in Canada as we speak. I'm not saying LA is dead, I'm just saying there are lots of opportunities - you just have to get off your butt and go find them.

Talking like that is like a company who makes 35mm Film Cameras. Everyone's talking Digital, but they keep hiding behind 35mm. As the gap closes, they don't pay attention until one day no one's buying 35mm anymore and now they have to quickly try to play catch up.

It doesn't bother me that you'll feel that way. I think LA is great in a lot of ways. But I don't think it's the only way.

jls4

08-07-2008, 05:58 AM

ATL isn't open yet. They only have four production companies.

Actually Atlanta has a few great production companies here. Unfortunately they are not producing enough films on the regular. Right now Atlanta pretty much controls the market for African-American cinema. And soon, I'm sure many other films will follow. North Carolina is putting out lots of films, along with Louisianna (the other LA). So the Southeast is growing, we took over music while the North East and the West Cost were battling over stupid things, don't under estimate us on movies. Many of us have our eyes on hollywood, and once enough capital and ideas are in place, we may be able to give LA a little run for their money.

Richard J. Johnson

08-07-2008, 06:37 AM

Actually Atlanta has a few great production companies here. Unfortunately they are not producing enough films on the regular. Right now Atlanta pretty much controls the market for African-American cinema. And soon, I'm sure many other films will follow. North Carolina is putting out lots of films, along with Louisianna (the other LA). So the Southeast is growing, we took over music while the North East and the West Cost were battling over stupid things, don't under estimate us on movies. Many of us have our eyes on hollywood, and once enough capital and ideas are in place, we may be able to give LA a little run for their money.

You did take over rap music for sure. Damn soulja boy. :Drogar-Smoke(DBG): I go to LA once a year just to hang out. There is no way I could live there though. It is waaaay too expensive. You can make movies anywhere and If you're good enough Hollywood will come to you.

jls4

08-07-2008, 08:25 AM

You did take over rap music for sure. Damn soulja boy. :Drogar-Smoke(DBG): I go to LA once a year just to hang out. There is no way I could live there though. It is waaaay too expensive. You can make movies anywhere and If you're good enough Hollywood will come to you.

Don't get me started on Soulja boy. But music really took off with LA and Babyface (LaFace Records). They got so many contracts OutKast, TLC, then Jermaine Dupree appeared with So So Def. And what happens when you get a few that are starting something, more investors pay attention to that area, so more opportunities pop up for people in that region. That's why it's importaint for Atlanta to have several companies that are producing many films. When ATL gets about 4 to 6 movies hitting the Box Office each year, (right now were averaging about 2) then you can bet people will start paying attention. Tyler Perry is making movies with grosses of over 60 and 70 million, then you have Rainforest who tries - and have succeeded in a few movies like "Stomp the Yard", and smaller groups like Pop Films who are up and coming (The Signal). So people can laugh all they want, but the Atlanta community is getting stronger everyday.

GageFX

08-07-2008, 08:29 AM

jls4

08-07-2008, 09:06 AM

JLS, I'm not knocking ATL and it's easy to get defensive, but seriously, if you want to act, does it make sense to live in a place that is producing 1000s and 1000s of movies a year, or a place that is making two? TWO!!!

It's like a mechanic that lives in a town that has only two cars. AND has 10 other mechanics. You might love your town and want to stay, and that's fine, but if you want to be a mechanic, go to where the cars are. Dont say "hey, next year we might get another car" to justify it being a good idea to stay.

I encouage all my actors to make the LA move when it's time for them. They quickly outgrow Atlanta. So I'm agreeing with you that right now it's best. But first and foremost I'm not an actor. So I have no need to leave. I can always pull actors to any city I choose when I'm ready to shoot.

My first point, which I guess got confused, since I write all over this board, is that Actors must take charge of their own careers. And that's what I don't see them doing. If you are say... Jude Law and you were on the top of the world for 7 years, but then your opportunities started drying up. then why don't you get out and try to push yourself - produce your own movies and take control of your life - H$ll you're Jude Law! Well most actors don't think that way. They are kinda looking for someone to ALWAYS open a door for them.

If an actor can't come to LA or even if they are there. Either way, I encourage them to push themselves. I tell all my actors, if no one else is putting you in a movie - put your own D$mn self in a movie - and stop whinning. :)

But maybe I'm being more of a butt-hole because as a producer I don't see limitations. Maybe actors don't feel that way and since I'm in an acting place on the board, I should think differently.

Tom Marshall

08-07-2008, 09:56 AM

jls4

08-07-2008, 10:36 AM

For a lot of actors, that's like saying "OK, you get bad gas mileage. Go drill for oil and refine your own gasoline. Why are you so lazy?" Or "You don't like the way Photoshop works? Develop your own graphics program. Why are you so lazy?"

And as for Atlanta being good for you, sure. A lot of stuff is filmed outside of Los Angeles (mainly to save money), but things *happen* here as far as casting / auditioning, etc... Probably 99% of the major film roles are cast in Los Angeles. If someone just wants to be in a movie as an extra, then fine, stay wherever you are. Anyone can be an extra...

D$ng - some serious animosity. But maybe I deserve it because like I said in the earlier post I'm not an actor so maybe I don't understand. But it's funny what about drilling or programming. The reason is because that IS my personality. If I don't like something, I complain for a while then I try to do it. I don't whine about it forever. If you're going to sit there and whine - why not try to fix the problem. You use just as much energy. When I see a problem, that's exactly how I act. "How can we make this better?" "How can we make people happier - do bigger things?"

One of the reasons why I want to be a director/producer is because I don't like many movies that come out of Hollywood. Maybe that's a "producer's personality" see a wall - figure out how to break it down.

Tom Marshall

08-07-2008, 10:44 AM

jls4

08-07-2008, 11:09 AM

My intentions weren't cruel. I'm just pointing out that it's not possible for a lot of actors to produce their own stuff. I was saying it has nothing to do with a lack of wanting to do something, but rather the lack of ability.

Also, you have to put a LOT into a role to really nail it and if you're producing, you're seriously taking away from the role and the character and it will show. A lot of actors just want to focus 100% on acting and not deal with anything else.

It's completely a producer's personality. An actor is much more interested in characters and really bringing himself into the role. When I watch a film, I can't really pay attention to the plot, honestly. I'm too interested in the characters and choices that the actors are making, the interactions between them. I'm also working out in my head how I would play the role and what I would do to bring myself into the character.

I'm really glad to be talking to you though. Many of my actors clam-up when it comes to talking about the "why" they do different things. i've tried to get actors in other forums to talk about this and that - but they never want to. If I'm to understand actors - I need to know what's in their heads. So it's helpful to me - to see the world through actors eyes.

One of the actors in my movie knows I'm constantly pushing him to produce something. I even said "hey go find the money and I'll shot it for you." Then he gives me a look like "and you think that's easy?" And while I DON'T think finding money is easy - as an indie you do so much work and hustle every minute - so basically I don't think actors and producers really understand each other.

Maybe if we ever meet in person, I can buy you coffee and we can talk about it. But I'm going to shy away from an Internet recording that could be taken against me when I'm a millionaire. :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG):Drogar-SunGlass(DBG

Tom Marshall

08-09-2008, 01:10 PM

I've been on both sides of the camera so I think I can appreciate both processes rather than be one sided. I'm glad I directed a short. It went absolutely nowhere (and is actually still on tapes). I'm not really that interested in the final product because, frankly, it's going to suck. :) That and I have zero interest in directing anything again. It's just not my thing.

But what you're talking about is why I really wanted to get an actor forum started here. There's a huge miscommunication between the different sides of the camera and, hopefully, one learning from the other and vice-versa will really help both.

I think the whole reason different careers exist is to cater to different thinking processes. You have engineering fields, which producing is almost akin to. Then you have history degrees, economics, language, etc. People, in general, aren't really that good at many different fields. That's a good thing though. For someone to excel at one while someone else excels at another is part of how a great team works. That's how it is with filmmaking. You (ideally) have people who are great in all departments and aren't just a "jack-of-all-traits" sort of person.

iain.bason

08-12-2008, 08:37 PM

You have engineering fields, which producing is almost akin to.

:huh:

I'm an engineer of sorts (software). I have also produced stage plays. I don't think producing is anything like engineering. It is somewhat like managing, though, which is why I don't produce any more.

Then you have history degrees, economics, language, etc. People, in general, aren't really that good at many different fields. That's a good thing though. For someone to excel at one while someone else excels at another is part of how a great team works. That's how it is with filmmaking. You (ideally) have people who are great in all departments and aren't just a "jack-of-all-traits" sort of person.

I couldn't agree more.

Prodigi Pictures

08-12-2008, 10:33 PM

Tom Marshall

08-12-2008, 11:47 PM

:huh:

I'm an engineer of sorts (software). I have also produced stage plays. I don't think producing is anything like engineering. It is somewhat like managing, though, which is why I don't produce any more.

I'm a software engineer also (to pay the bills till I can support myself as an actor). What I was referring to was the ability to piece things together to get a coherent production. Software engineering is very task based and production oriented just like film (or theatre) production is. That's what I was trying to get at. :)

iain.bason

08-13-2008, 08:04 AM

I'm a software engineer also (to pay the bills till I can support myself as an actor).

That reminds me of a guy I know who funded his startup company by acting. (Commercials, I think, but that was long before I met him. He's retired now. The startup was very successful, and once the men with suits and money showed up they made him stop acting.)

What I was referring to was the ability to piece things together to get a coherent production. Software engineering is very task based and production oriented just like film (or theatre) production is. That's what I was trying to get at. :)

That's an interesting point. There are, of course, different kinds of software engineering. What I do tends more towards finding creative solutions to problems, but I can still see your point.

cool_splash1

11-04-2008, 09:38 PM

I disagree! 100% Your opportunities are limited by You and You alone. If you are a one talent type of person then yes you'd better head to LA. If you're an actor and you don't want to put your own money up, help produce, or such, yes head to LA. But if you're about product and willing to work to get it, you don't need LA.

I'm not knocking California. I'm not knocking LA, but to say you're limited because you like where you live and want to grwo there, is crazy. More people are moving to my area (Atlanta) all the time. And as soon as we can get 5 good prod companies that produce movies regularly, I'm sure we won't loose many people to LA anymore.

Actually in Digital Filmmaking 101 the authors mentioned one of the women they cast in one of their movies can't remember where said she had friends who were shocked she got a feature gig staying home. They were in LA and still hadn't gotten gigs. So really I guess it could go either way.

And as for Atlanta I watched this video on acting I got from the Library and one actor did say that his mistake was not listening to his teacher who told him to go to Alanta first before going to New York.

cool_splash1

11-04-2008, 09:43 PM

Mattykins

11-04-2008, 09:59 PM

Film making is the most saturated industry in the world. Same with theatre. But you get the musical theatre and stage actors in New York. Screen is mostly in LA.

But location helps. Not just for acting - but for crewing. If I stayed in upstate NY my entire life. I would work maybe a few weeks a year. Unless I get contracted out to an out-of-state production. Location helps a lot. But there is work to be had in other markets.

Michele Seidman

11-05-2008, 04:52 PM

I'm an Albuquerque filmmaker. I do all my casting in Los Angeles. I've held casting sessions here and they're a waste of time...I can see 50 actors here in Albuquerque and never see a single person worth casting.

I've held casting sessions in Spokane, Portland, Seattle, San Fransisco, Albuquerque, Santa Fe, Beijing, Guadalajara and New York City as well as Los Angeles. Only the Los Angeles auditions were worth my time.

Noticed no North Carolina in there. Just for the record, we have 20,000 actors on the South East Coast working on shows like One Tree Hill, Army Wives and in films like Nights in Rodanthee (spelling?) and more....so check us out one day! We also tape and send stuff so you can see us without leaving home!

Actually in Digital Filmmaking 101 the authors mentioned one of the women they cast in one of their movies can't remember where said she had friends who were shocked she got a feature gig staying home. They were in LA and still hadn't gotten gigs. So really I guess it could go either way.

Katie Holmes was living at home in Ohio and missed her call back for Dawsons Creek to honor her fellow students because the call back was the same day her school play opened. She did not want to let the cast down. Katie did fine sending video from Ohio.

General note...I was trying to avoid this thread because I saw lots said I could have debated but did not see the point.

I did want to make note the author quoted by the person who started the thread did mention one thing I find to be true and it is a pet peeve because I teach.

If I think someone can't act I tell them. It is the bane of my existence dealing with actors who were with some teacher for years who told them how good they were just to keep making money off of them.

I work very differently and try to kick them out to do work on their own. I try to prepare them to look after their own careers. I try to get them in and out fast and only have them back when they really need me.

But here is a problem with actors that bugs me to no end...and since I am one...I am allowed to speak on this. Actors (most of them) are too needy. They expect to be made in to stars....and they think someone else will do it for them. Half of that IS because some stupid acting teacher kept selling them a bill of goods so they could keep their little acting studio open.

That is why I teach from home and don't depend on teaching as my soul income. I don't ever want to sell them bull crap and if they are needy...nothing I do will change that. I just won't put up with the needy ones...the normally stand the least chance anyway. Producers, directors and casting people do not have time to hand hold them.

libneon

01-05-2009, 08:15 PM

Most things in life worth doing are difficult. Often, the more difficult they are the more they are worth doing.

Most of my friends went to college and became accountants or manage the local office supply store. They hate their lives.

When you are 20 it's easy for your friends and family to make fun of you but 10 years later when they are miserable, they are quite envious of the life of an actor or filmmaker even if that's not your day job.

Some people are just so threatened by the thought of confronting their own failed aspirations that the only solace they can find is to drag others down.

Furthermore, the game is changing. Actors are producing their own features from start to finish with the help of affordable DV equipment. This can only be a good thing for the industry as more talent and more dreams are realized.

The joy is in the journey...not the destination.

Frankly, most actors are simply not good enough for many of the jobs they want and many of the good actors are too fickle, lazy or disorganized to do what is needed to succeed.

When I hear stories of people who spent 15 years acting and only did one commercial and a handful of plays I can only view that as laziness in the extreme. If nothing is happening...make it happen. Team up with other actors and make your own short films, write a play, create a DV feature or even do street theater. If you truly LOVE what you're doing then you'll find a way to do it even if only for personal fulfillment.

Most people really don't want to be actors. They want to be famous. There's a difference.

Tom Marshall

01-05-2009, 11:28 PM

Most things in life worth doing are difficult. Often, the more difficult they are the more they are worth doing.

And sometimes, that's all you really want to do with your life, so the level of difficulty is moot, really. If you have to do it, you have to do it. I was telling my mom how much I needed to quit my job so that I can pursue this full time. She said, "No, you WANT to do this" and I told her, "No, I NEED to do this. Like a person needs food or water to survive."

Most of my friends went to college and became accountants or manage the local office supply store. They hate their lives.

When you are 20 it's easy for your friends and family to make fun of you but 10 years later when they are miserable, they are quite envious of the life of an actor or filmmaker even if that's not your day job.If someone makes fun of you for wanting to be an actor, it's usually jealousy. Either that or they're trying to tell you, in a not-so-nice way, that you don't have what it takes to make it. But even then if you bust your butt, you'll most likely get somewhere. Look at Stallone. People made fun of him for years and he's a good actor... with some of his stuff. He really did a good job with the Rocky character.

Some people are just so threatened by the thought of confronting their own failed aspirations that the only solace they can find is to drag others down.Also very true...

Furthermore, the game is changing. Actors are producing their own features from start to finish with the help of affordable DV equipment. This can only be a good thing for the industry as more talent and more dreams are realized.

The joy is in the journey...not the destination.Which is great for a lot of actors. A lot of your true actors want to get out there and make stuff and work on their craft - get better by doing. And, by making small independent projects, you get to meet people that love making movies as opposed to big budget features that could care less about the people involved.

Frankly, most actors are simply not good enough for many of the jobs they want and many of the good actors are too fickle, lazy or disorganized to do what is needed to succeed.Unfortunately, that's true also. Watching some actors kind of makes you cringe.

When I hear stories of people who spent 15 years acting and only did one commercial and a handful of plays I can only view that as laziness in the extreme. If nothing is happening...make it happen. Team up with other actors and make your own short films, write a play, create a DV feature or even do street theater. If you truly LOVE what you're doing then you'll find a way to do it even if only for personal fulfillment.Well said. :)

Most people really don't want to be actors. They want to be famous. There's a difference.There's a HUGE difference. Being a good actor who works often and lands good roles is something that many good actors, like myself, strive for. Being famous is overrated by far.

And, oddly enough, it's very anti-climatic from what I hear. There are so many actors, musicians, and other artists who pursue fame their whole life and, once they reach it, turn to drugs because they're expecting so much more and it's just not there... It doesn't bring them the glory that they were hoping for. There's nothing good about being famous... Paparazzi bugging you all the time... you can't even live a normal life. Who wants that?

jls4

01-06-2009, 10:30 AM

And as for Atlanta I watched this video on acting I got from the Library and one actor did say that his mistake was not listening to his teacher who told him to go to Alanta first before going to New York.

I think it's good to build your resume first before tackling LA. But since I'm not an actor, I don't know what's truly best for them. IMO, I "believe" the best thing is to work with great producers/directors and try to build a name for yourself with those producers/directors with the hope they will "spring" you into fame. Several of my actors work in this manner. They befriend producers/directors and work their craft with them. They won't work with newcommers and people without an understanding of filmmaking. Their hope is that when I or anyone else blows up, we won't forget them; and we will open new doors for them.

filmman

01-07-2009, 11:55 AM

I don't know about all that; being an indie filmmaker is just as hard. But I agree with many here who love acting ... that it's not like any other job.

Original post:
No one makes movies about unsuccessful actors. Their lives are dreary, dreary hell. For every Hilary Swank who lived with her mother in a car for a year

I'll make that movie! But only if Hilary agrees to star in it. LOL

Just kidding, I'll make it no matter who stars in it. You want to act? Here's a link to visit and commit yourself ... yeah, commit yourself! No one else will do it for you :-)

It's your life and you can do whatever you want with it.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=158197

sean90291

01-07-2009, 01:13 PM

Screenwriting is far worse.

Sure you can do it by yourself...but where's the joy in that. Someone still has to read it, like it and make it.

Tom Marshall

01-07-2009, 02:00 PM

You also have to define what "make it" means. If, as an actor, you want to be the next whomever, that's one thing. But if your goal is to work with other talented people and be able to pay the bills, that's something completely different.

Gbaez

01-28-2009, 02:02 AM

depends on your definition of success

to me it all depends on your goals and how much your willing to sacrifice.

there are plenty of working actors, making a living doing so.... not all actors are rich but not allactors are poor

you gotta love it

Morox

01-28-2009, 11:45 AM

I saw this post and thought I would chime in. It seems like a lot of people believe success is attributed to just large cities with loads of agencies. More people equals more talent which equals a harder time for a person to stand out in a crowd. I am currently filming my own films and I live in a small province in the middle of Canada. Production companies exist here, but not much of a film scene. I think this is a blessing. It gives me the opportunity to shine without the restraint of competition. What I'm saying is that make with what you have and become noticed in the lesser known areas. This could be advantageous to yourself.

Michele Seidman

01-30-2009, 07:42 PM

I saw this post and thought I would chime in. It seems like a lot of people believe success is attributed to just large cities with loads of agencies. More people equals more talent which equals a harder time for a person to stand out in a crowd..........What I'm saying is that make with what you have and become noticed in the lesser known areas. This could be advantageous to yourself.

Bravo Morox

People often think they should run straight off to California and the vast majority get lost in the crowd or return with their tail between their legs because they were not prepared and did not do their homework.

Funny part...here in North Carolina we get actors who move here from NYC and California to get their foot in the door a little faster. They come here...get agents in a matter of days, weeks or months...and on average I see men get their SAG cards in 6 months to a year and a half and women in 1-3 years. Most actors I have trained that went to California before they got their card spent 5 years or more just trying to get a good union gig. Many report back it takes a year or longer to land a great agent.

I say start in a smaller area...stand out...build a resume...get in the union and THEN head off to the 'big city' if that is what you desire!