Im officially broke

[HerzogisGod]

and must halt production on my film. trying to raise funds to continue. having trouble doing so. no one seems to gives damn. sucks because its a fine film but only 1/3 complete. need 15,000. put a business plan together and started sitting with potential investors. no luck yet. very depressing. been thinking about selling the HVX and beautiful audio equipment to pay credit cards and rent

who invests in films? where does one go? $15, 000 not a lot of money

[Jason Adams]

DON'T SELL YOUR GEAR>>>>

Start selling your services. Pick up local TV commercials, weddings anything you can shoot for money. Indi film is rarely a lucrative deal. Most Indie filmmakers are happy just to get a distro deal right above cost.

I am not saying abandon your film, I am saying get creative with your art to earn some money to finish your film. Your gear has the potential to make you money long after your film is finished.

I think selling a profitable asset like gear to get by for a few months would be a mistake.


Don't think I'M A FILMMAKER I CAN'T DO WEDDINGS AND LOCAL TV ADS. It beats waiting tables and certainly beats going bankrupt and having your significant other tell you to get a real job. You might even find a few corporate gigs that pay well. I just signed a deal that would be more than enough to finish your film. I am not saying I want to invest, I am saying invest yourself in your art and try to make it profitable on your terms.

Good Luck

[Richard J. Johnson]

$15,000 is a whole lot of money in this economy. Good luck getting investors, It is not an easy thing to do unless you want to pay 20% interest. Why didn't you try to secure financing before you started? Since you own your gear just use it to make money as mentioned above. You will be fine.

[Mattykins]

The question I get a lot is: Do I need 15k to get the film done?

I help a lot of student film makers with budget and breakdowns. I would offer you our services free but our site isn't up and we aren't public yet.

What I might be able to do is take a look at your business plan, budget, and schedule and show you places where you can cut costs.

Low budget film making is possible. Just takes some work-arounds.

Best of luck on it though. Whatever you do, do not pull money out of savings. It is not the time to do that in this economy. And DO NOT TOUCH your 401k or IRA.

[Derrick_SA]

Jason is right, you'll have to get your hands a little dirty with weddings, commercials, etc... to pay the bills,

you'll be very angry with yourself if you sell your gear.

- Derrick

[filmman]

How much of the film have you shot? How much have you spent so far? What's the subject? How many actors? Why do you consider it a fine film?

[David W. Richardson]

Good questions from filmman. I'd add one more....

"Why should investors 'give a damn'?"

It's up to YOU to sell THEM on the idea. Maybe you need to find a better salesman to rep your project to investors. (That's my weakest area too.)

[Hans Moleman]

Yesterday, I got a man to write me a check for ten grand to finance a short. How?

Investor's don't care about your story. At all. And unless Johnny Depp is in the cast, they don't care about how talented the people working on it are.

I got this man to give me all the money I wanted by telling him one thing; how does he benefit? How is it good for him, and how will that ten grand translate into a lot more money for him.

You have to make it attractive for them. I work with lawyers all day. I hear a thousand times about how easy it is to make 3 above prime by dumping cash into real estate, so why should they give me anything and take the chance.

Be confident. Sell it to them. Polish it up, and BS if you have to (you have to).

[DogDay]

Yesterday, I got a man to write me a check for ten grand to finance a short. How?

= You got on your knees and drank his milkshake ? :beer:

[Hans Moleman]

you cut me deep, dog. real deep just now

[David W. Richardson]

Yesterday, I got a man to write me a check for ten grand to finance a short. How?

Investor's don't care about your story. At all. And unless Johnny Depp is in the cast, they don't care about how talented the people working on it are.

I got this man to give me all the money I wanted by telling him one thing; how does he benefit? How is it good for him, and how will that ten grand translate into a lot more money for him.

You have to make it attractive for them. I work with lawyers all day. I hear a thousand times about how easy it is to make 3 above prime by dumping cash into real estate, so why should they give me anything and take the chance.

Be confident. Sell it to them. Polish it up, and BS if you have to (you have to).

Exactly right! I wish I had your salesmanship. Congratulations!

For those who aren't the best salesmen (like me), HIRE a salesman. Somebody who has the knack and the track record. Pay them a percentage of whatever investment capital they bring in, and set them loose!


.

[DogDay]

Just playing...Couldn`t resist.

All kidding aside you are absolutly right and to take this principle a step further I would even venture to say that knowing your potential partner/victims needs on as many levels as possible gives some extra options when pitching to what seems attractive to them in their current situation...

Sometimes people with lots of cash dont want more cash for their cash very often they want some sort of credibility or status something they can flaunt, never underestimate the vanity of the wealthy nor of any mortal for that matter.

[David W. Richardson]

Just playing...Couldn`t resist.

All kidding aside you are absolutly right and to take this principle a step further I would even venture to say that knowing your potential partner/victims needs on as many levels as possible gives some extra options when pitching to what seems attractive to them in their current situation...

Sometimes people with lots of cash dont want more cash for their cash very often they want some sort of credibility or status something they can flaunt, never underestimate the vanity of the wealthy nor of any mortal for that matter.

Also very true!

And where are you meeting with these potential investors? In some office? Get them into a movie theater. Book a theater before opening, make sure the smell of fresh hot popcorn is hanging in the air, then sit the investor down in a seat and show him your reel up on the Big Screen. Sell the sizzle!

.

[Mattykins]

Also very true!

And where are you meeting with these potential investors? In some office? Get them into a movie theater. Book a theater before opening, make sure the smell of fresh hot popcorn is hanging in the air, then sit the investor down in a seat and show him your reel up on the Big Screen. Sell the sizzle!

.

Well, you might want to trend carefully there. If you turn out a crap product, or can't get distribution and promised them this, they will be mad.

Don't promise something you can never deliver. IE. theatrical distribution

[David W. Richardson]

Well, you might want to trend carefully there. If you turn out a crap product, or can't get distribution and promised them this, they will be mad.

Don't promise something you can never deliver. IE. theatrical distribution

I didn't mean you should imply your project would get theatrical distribution. Only that the sights and sounds and smells of a theater will put them in the 'movie' frame of mind. Get them interested -- then give them full disclosure about everything including distribution potential.

.

[Cryogenic Filmworks]

Exactly right! I wish I had your salesmanship. Congratulations!

For those who aren't the best salesmen (like me), HIRE a salesman. Somebody who has the knack and the track record. Pay them a percentage of whatever investment capital they bring in, and set them loose!


.

I also wish I had ANY salesmanship skills at all. Never thought about HIRING a salesman though. Interesting thought.

[David W. Richardson]

I also wish I had ANY salesmanship skills at all. Never thought about HIRING a salesman though. Interesting thought.

The way I figure it, we always hire people who can do jobs better than we can do them ourselves. Why shouldn't the job of securing investors be handled the same way? :)

.

[Capt Quirk]

= You got on your knees and drank his milkshake ? :beer: LMAO! You know... I was thinking along those same lines :) How much would you charge other film makers to... ahem, "persuade" investors? You might just have found a lucrative niche.

[HerzogisGod]

thanks everyone. just tough times, i guess. i wont sell my gear. yesterday 2k came through for the film at the last minute. 2k will keep my film going for another few weeks at least.

[JonathanLB]

Yeah, your gear is a great potential revenue-earner. I have made a decent amount renting out my gear this month and I was on vacation half of the month, haha, so I wouldn't sell that.

I am also looking for a sales person, not that I am not good at it, I'm pretty decent, but I don't want to do that job and don't have time for it ultimately. I have too much else I want to do, so I'm in the process of trying to find someone who would work on commission, take my company's reel and information, and find corporate / commercial clients that are interested in video work. It's important in that case, I think, that they DO NOT work in the film industry. Otherwise, they will find the clients based on my work, then when they figure out how I run my business, it'd be too easy to emulate and steal away my clients. Best to find someone with limited knowledge who just is great at communicating and business, with no real interest in how anything is made in the film industry.

[DogDay]

Captain Quirk-

I think those people would technically come under the Head-ing of "Fluffers".

Herzogisgod-

Congratulations and Bravo! Keep fighting you will get there.

[HerzogisGod]

Thanks

How do you go about renting your camera? can you trust it will come back in unharmed? who do you rent your gear to? insurance? who's responsible for damage

[JonathanLB]

So far I've only rented my camera to trusted people, either a friend's connection / contact or a DP I've worked with previously who I trust. I haven't asked for insurance certificates, which I figured I would do initially, but I do have them sign a contract agreeing that I'm not responsible for equipment malfunctions and that they need to check the equipment upon delivery, blah blah etc., also that any damages are their responsibility. Now, in practice, some people may not even have the money to pay for broken equipment if they do break something, so I suppose I'm taking a risk in that sense but no risk, no reward.

That being said, if I was renting out the RED nobody would get that camera without proper insurance. I'm fully insured, but not for renting my equipment, only for my own productions, so I'm not sure how I'd go about that. All I know is that if I was renting something super expensive like the RED and more expensive lenses, I wouldn't let anyone touch that equipment without proper insurance. I really wish I had the RED, haha, but that's one reason I'm reluctant to buy it now. Most indie filmmakers can't afford that type of rental, not unless they're doing some medium budget work anyway, and so it'd be tough to make my money back without using it a lot myself. I know I'd get good use out of it for sure, and it would help the professionalism of my work, but for me right now that's not worth the $40,000 investment or whatever to get the setup, get a lens, get a really pro tripod, etc. I want to shoot my first feature with the RED, though, so I'll probably buy before that.

[slimchrisp]

I got this man to give me all the money I wanted by telling him one thing; how does he benefit? How is it good for him, and how will that ten grand translate into a lot more money for him.

so what was it you told him? i'm gearing up for financing myself. i plan to shoot a feature next spring or summer, and i'm trying to figure this all out as well.

IMHO the financing thing is the hardest part, hands down. you can plan for every technical problem, story problem, etc. but at the low budget indie level getting the $$$ is the hard part.

[Hans Moleman]

I'd have to say financing a feature is a cakewalk compared to financing a short.

With features, I can show you distribution channels, DVD grosses of similar films, etc. and you can easily see how your money comes back. With shorts, there isn't any of that.

[slimchrisp]

I'd have to say financing a feature is a cakewalk compared to financing a short.

With features, I can show you distribution channels, DVD grosses of similar films, etc. and you can easily see how your money comes back. With shorts, there isn't any of that.

kind of my point. so with those barriers, what was your selling point? future promise of features?

[Hans Moleman]

The man happens to own a company, that sells a product, that badly needs exposure to educated males, 18-24 in the U.S. and Canada. ie: film festival go-ers

[slimchrisp]

The man happens to own a company, that sells a product, that badly needs exposure to educated males, 18-24 in the U.S. and Canada. ie: film festival go-ers

nice. congrats on that.

[Jason Miller]

Hans, I'm shocked this question hasn't been assked, but how was it in there interest to give you 10 grand, how are you planning on making them a profit with a short? Shorts do not usually make a lot of money if any, the only one i can think of was George lucas in love. anyway I'd like to pick your brain a bit. I wiosh I could say I pedal my wears for money to make my films, but honestly, I shoot other peoples stuff just to pay bills.

Jason

[Hans Moleman]

Originally Posted by Hans Moleman
The man happens to own a company, that sells a product, that badly needs exposure to educated males, 18-24 in the U.S. and Canada. ie: film festival go-ers

He happens to peddle a product that needs very targeted exposure, and a little something else: credibility. He's in a fairly congested market, and associating his product with a film of this calibre, giving it credibility, is something you can't buy.

I mean, the script is brilliant, the cast is phenomenal, and the whole crew is already proven award winners. He gets in on the ground floor of some real art, and will see a huge indirect return because of the exposure his product gets.

[Jason Miller]

is this filme Redlined? who do you have for cast?

[Mattykins]

Might I ask why you are being so secretive about the film, nature of the film...basically every aspect of said film?

I mean, I am just finding this interesting that you talk about how you are raking in money for the production and you have a perfect script, perfect film - but won't mention anything about it. If you are doing so well - why hide it?

[Hans Moleman]

the film is, in fact, Redlined, and though I cant name names, the cast includes one name actor, as well as this year's ACTF national winner. Also, the reason I don't openly and shamelessly self promote outside of details pertinent to the thread is because it's my project and i dont feel its really in my interest to divulge every detail. did that on rooster, and no one paid attention any way. I'm also trying not to thread jack. The guy's having trouble finding money for his movies, and I'm going through how I got mine. The reason I talk up my film is because you HAVE to. No one is gonna take a chance on you if your pitch is "Well, it's a pretty good script, plus my friends are in it, and they're really funny too. So, yeah... Can I have a check?"

[moonlitnite]

Hi Herzog,

Although it indeed it's a bit of a paradox that you're open to discuss budget shortfalls but little else, we appreciate you sharing financial issues - a bane to (most) all of us.

I imagine prospective investors will ask questions like:

1. What was your original budget?

2. Where were the overruns?

3. What line items were underforcasted or missed?

4. What's your new production timeline?

5. What about resource dependencies and contingencies?

6. What obligations/indebtedness (contracts, bills, etc) do you have in place?

7. What costs are variable or fixed, and what controls do you have in place to manage the costs?

8. Do your new costs include critical elements such as insurances, workman's compensation, etc. ?

You state you've spent your entire budget and completed maybe a third of the film.

9. What's your new budget and how confident are you this time?

One might assume your prior budget stopped at the end of shooting.

10. What is your post-production budget, including:
a. Video editing?
b. Sound edit?
c. ADR?
d. Foley?
e. Music/score?
f. Mix/rerecord?
g. M&E?
h. Film convesion?
i. Film lab?
j. Marketing? (including PR, advertising, press kits, promos)
k. Distribution?
l. G & A? (including legal)

11. What distribution agreements are in place? (contracts)

12. What distribution agreements are planned and what are the contingencies?

13. Will you need to secure additional funding for these phases?

14. What are your business arrangements with:
a. Investors in place?
b. Investors needed for this round?
c. Investors need for the additional phases?

14. What are your revenue sharing arrangements with your investors?


Hans, I'm sure this list missed many items but hopefully it will be helpful when you talk with prospective investors...

Regards, Michael

[Hans Moleman]

Alright. I've gotten a few PM's now that seem confused about funding, but certain that I don't know what I'm talking about. So, this is my last entry before I'm unsubscribing to this thread.

First, some background; When I was 16, I qualified for Mensa in Minnesota. When I was 18, I was accepted to Harvard university. I've worked for three years at a 9-5 job at one of the largest commercial real estate firms in the state, getting ample experience in the world of cutting-throats-for-money. If you think you know better than I do because of my age; reconsider.

Firstly, if we're talking about shorts here, stop using the word "invest." People giving you money for shorts aren't investing. They're donating. Plain and simple. Investing implies a return on the money invested. Misusing that word makes you sound like a kid playing in daddy's clothes.

Now; the first point I see is that people think that I've somehow engineered my short to make money. It won't. It's a short. It will lose AT LEAST 10 grand.

Why would a company give me money when we both know that exact sum will not come back to them? Because it's media exposure for a product. Otherwise known as a commercial. It's product placement that I'm using for my film, and I thought I made that clear. Is it selling out? Yes. Do I get to make the exact movie I want, with the budget I want, and the people I want, without putting in my own money? Yes. Sounds like I've got all the integrity I need right there.

Next, I'm asked about where to find investors. There again, misuse of the word. Investors are easy to find. If I tell someone I can get them a 4 above prime return on an investment with a 16 month turn around, they'd be nuts to say no. Shorts can't do that. So, what do I have to my advantage? Exposure. What needs exposure? People, products, brands, and anything you see plastered up or nailed to the side of a building.

Why would they go with me instead of just doing a commercial? Ever look into what it would cost to actually make a commercial, and buy the airtime to hit your target market? 10 grand starts to look like petty cash.

In the end, I have no secret besides sitting down and thinking about what I need, and how to get it. Then I thought about who to get it from, and what they need, and how I could get that to them. You have to make phone calls, get numbers, screw emails, and do the legwork. Use your head, man. I wish that I could just submit a form and get all the money I want to make whatever I want, but I can't. Lenin's dead. In our system, you need to find how to capitalize on opportunities. Maybe instead of reading "Devil without a crew" again, maybe pick up some Buffet or iacocca.

And that's it. That's all I have for you. If you find that you're no better, and at square one, with no one helping you; good. That's where I was 4 months ago. That's where Steve was in the 60's. You have to do it yourself. So get going.

[slimchrisp]

Yesterday, I got a man to write me a check for ten grand to finance a short. How?

Investor's don't care about your story. At all. And unless Johnny Depp is in the cast, they don't care about how talented the people working on it are.

I got this man to give me all the money I wanted by telling him one thing; how does he benefit? How is it good for him, and how will that ten grand translate into a lot more money for him.

You have to make it attractive for them. I work with lawyers all day. I hear a thousand times about how easy it is to make 3 above prime by dumping cash into real estate, so why should they give me anything and take the chance.

Be confident. Sell it to them. Polish it up, and BS if you have to (you have to).


Firstly, if we're talking about shorts here, stop using the word "invest." People giving you money for shorts aren't investing. They're donating. Plain and simple. Investing implies a return on the money invested. Misusing that word makes you sound like a kid playing in daddy's clothes.


um, so how should it have been taken when you originally referred to investors then?

i'm just sayin.

[dantewaters]

Yesterday, I got a man to write me a check for ten grand to finance a short. How?

Investor's don't care about your story. At all. And unless Johnny Depp is in the cast, they don't care about how talented the people working on it are.

I got this man to give me all the money I wanted by telling him one thing; how does he benefit? How is it good for him, and how will that ten grand translate into a lot more money for him.

You have to make it attractive for them. I work with lawyers all day. I hear a thousand times about how easy it is to make 3 above prime by dumping cash into real estate, so why should they give me anything and take the chance.

Be confident. Sell it to them. Polish it up, and BS if you have to (you have to).


Well said it's not the economy it is our thinking... I use to say things are expensive now I say I can't afford them. With that right there I develop the thinking of how can I get more... so I can afford them.

Look at this video you may think it's corny or weak or whatever but it has made a difference in my life and you can raise $15,000... Heck people blow that away in a car why not a movie please it is all about how valuable things are to people bottom line.

Anyway here's the video -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfA-qNWLBHo&feature=related

If you are interested look at this one next -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWOJt1kCYP0&feature=related

Don't WORRY HE ISN'T SELLING ANYTHING JUST knowledge Sharing!!

[moonlitnite]

Rehi all,

Wow, Hans tells us he's unsubscribed to this thread. I hope we didn't offend him, although the tone of his first and last post seem to have taken a dramatic turn from financial frustrations to assertions for the rest of us. That's unfortunate, we all need a chance to vent - although this is hardly the best forum.

OTOH, I'm sure many of us are miffed after trying to offer helpful suggestions based on the original post (asking investment/investor questions). It definitely reinforces why we should make clear posts, especially in the Business forum.

At any rate, thanks to y'all for sharing your feedback - even if Hans couldn't make use of your comments, I think we all profit from your collective wisdom.

Happy Trails, Michael

[mikemarye]

Take one minute and check out our funding website. www.prospexx-i-c.com (http://www.prospexx-i-c.com)

Mike