Well just DPd my first short on an EX1

[Noel Evans]

This wasnt my production, and they bought limited lighting to the table. For the record I could only do two of the three day shoot due to other commitments. But, one day was 14 hours and the other was 12. No dolly or any way to move the cam, static shots with plenty of angles.

Ill qualify with, Ive used the EX a few times, but not on narrative. SO heres my thoughts on what I thought were the strengths and weaknesses. This is my opinion only and I simply refuse to debate any of points I make as my opinion.

Ill start with the positives. I always thought the EX had a nice filmic look to it. And we set up originally with a "Filmic" preset found on the net and then tweaked it. My earlier feeling was confirmed when I saw the shots coming through. Has a very nice feel to it - of course a lot of that comes through lighting of course, but theres little doubt to the part the EX plays. The EX really loves good lighting.

I was pleasantly surprised with the cameras dynamic range. I havent seen the HVX200a but it certainly performed better than any HVX Ive ever used. Nothing like the HPX, but very good in the prosumer range, maybe best I have seen.

Histogram was fairly useful, but I stuck with the waveform for the most part. Of course the focal distance bar is a pretty good tool as well. Camera op (who also owns the camera we used) was setting focus with the cam alone, and I was watching on monitor and he could get the focal point perfect every time with LCD alone. Pretty impressive.

I did one shot with 3db gain and image was very clean. Almost entirely without any detriment.

We were shooting 1080 / 25p and the two cards in the camera never had to be changed out during the day. And just as an aside the software that organises the clips (mac in this case) was so easy to use. 0 learning curve.

I expected more DOF with the cam, using every trick in the book, I just couldnt achieve exactly what I wanted. This isnt any different to other prosumer cameras, but if you are an EX1 owner, I would recommend a 35mm adapter, especially for experienced users who will want to push more artistically. I guess I just expected more from the 1/2" sensors.

Now to audio, yeah I did the audio as well. You get that. The EX1 is a very honest camera. Whilst you hear what youre getting clearly by monitoring from the EX1, the resulting sound in post isnt as good as it could be. I used an Octava and sanken cs3 via a protech fs305 field mixer then recording into cam. Monitoring from the mixer, the dialogue was excellent, clean and clear. Going into the EX1 though something was lost. Maybe you people who use it often have some more info on that. But IMO the sound was the low point (please keep that comment in context in relation to my above comments). I mentioned the HVX before regarding a dynamic range comparison, and I will again here as the HVX (keeping in mind I was never a big fan of the HVX in any case), just records better, cleaner sound.

Overall I liked the EX a lot on this shoot. You can quickly gather the cameras strengths and use them to advantage.

Anyway I will speak to producer / director and see if I cant get a couple of grabs / quick clips up to support my above comments over the next few days.

[matthew77]

I expected more DOF with the cam, using every trick in the book, I just couldnt achieve exactly what I wanted. This isnt any different to other prosumer cameras, but if you are an EX1 owner, I would recommend a 35mm adapter, especially for experienced users who will want to push more artistically. I guess I just expected more from the 1/2" sensors.


I assume you expecting less depth of field?

Less DOF = shallower focus

More DOF = deeper focus.

Otherwise, no debate from me.

[Noel Evans]

I assume you expecting less depth of field?

Less DOF = shallower focus

More DOF = deeper focus.

Otherwise, no debate from me.

Sorry, I meant DOF control.

[Daryl Auguste]

Very useful post, I plan on purchasing the Ex-1 to shoot just that, narratives.

[FrankC]

Currently in the middle of production on a low budget feature with my EX1. I love the camera. Took some getting used to all the very tiny buttons (accidently hit the Full Auto a couple of times with a knuckle)...but have learned! Great shots in low light, keeping the shadows there. The blacks were beautiful without noise since I will shoot with a Negative 3bd! Definitely will be even more cinematic with a 35mm adapter as Phillip Bloom has shown. The Price-Performance ratio of this camera can't be beat.

[mico]

T



We were shooting 1080 / 25p and the two cards in the camera never had to be changed out during the day. And just as an aside the software that organises the clips (mac in this case) was so easy to use. 0 learning curve.



And this for me is such a huge point for the tapeless workflow. The HVX was death in this regard. Great post.

[basspig]

Noel,

about the audio, it's probable that the levels were set too high and you were hearing the effects of the non-defeatable limiters. I ran into this limitation early in my EX1 testing, and found that the workaround was to consider the 4th segment below redline to be the true "0dBfs" before peak limiting occurs. That's about 3-4dB down from digital 0dBfs, but since the EX1's preamps are so quiet, you can make up the gain in post with no ill effects. The effect of trying to set levels til they peak in the red is MUCH worse, as the crude limiter makes ugly effects on the dynamics, particularly percussive sounds. If you have audience applause, and you hear it pumping, the record level is too high.

BTW, if you think the EX1 audio is not so good, you would probably be absolutely disgusted by the HVR-V1U audio. At least the EX1 is DAT-quality and flat from 20-20KHz. The V1U has a flat region from about 1200-16KHz. :shocked:

For samples of EX1's audio capabilities, go to my Exposure Room homepage and look up Sonny Carroll Orchestra. That's done with a Rode NT4 mic plugged into the EX1.

[Noel Evans]

basspig, audio is never an issue when the recorded sound is constant like a choir, corall etc (assuming your levels are right). Its when youre recording dialogue with silence. I had a boom op sometimes as close as 8 inches to the source (mostly around 10 - 14 inches max), the dialogue was clean and strong monitoring from my field mixer with levels peaking at around -5db, there was absolute 0 noise. But when introduced to the cam I could hear some on monitoring and then in the resultant output. Similar to what I see recording direct to a canon a1.

There was also two small :S I had with the EX1 that I forgot to mention.

1/ Handheld it feels like your holding a cucumber :S The OIS is incredibly good. Makes your footage look like a crappy steadicam shot, not saying wedding shooters do crappy steadicm shots, but this would be useful in that format, but little else.
2/ Why does Sony persist in using proprietary connections? I noticed the component out is. All I can say to Ex1 users is dont lose that cable, or have a spare on hand. Unless you are going out via SDI to monitor instead of course. They arent that expensive, but much harder to source on short notice.

[PerroneFord]

Non-proprietary connectors (like component video) are pretty bulky to be honest. Especially on something as small as the EX1. The EX3 improves things quite a lot, but it's a much larger camera.

Anyone who'd go out in the field intending to do a component video monitor, and who wouldn't take have a spare cable for that critical function needs their hands slapped. :)

I keep a spare EVERYTHING in my production bag, and spare bulbs for every lighting fixture in my light kit. That's just basic at this level. If someone can drop $7k for a camera, they can surely afford a $20 backup cable.

[andynick]

it's probable that the levels were set too high and you were hearing the effects of the non-defeatable limiters.
basspig,
Is there any way we can bye-pass the limiters on the EX1?
(Other than reducing levels, that is).

[basspig]

basspig, audio is never an issue when the recorded sound is constant like a choir, corall etc (assuming your levels are right). Its when youre recording dialogue with silence. I had a boom op sometimes as close as 8 inches to the source (mostly around 10 - 14 inches max), the dialogue was clean and strong monitoring from my field mixer with levels peaking at around -5db, there was absolute 0 noise. But when introduced to the cam I could hear some on monitoring and then in the resultant output. Similar to what I see recording direct to a canon a1.




Ah, but I don't record only choirs. I also record explosions, like fireworks, which has a lot of silence, followed by SPLs of 145dB or higher for extremely short bursts. As such, I have the attenuators set for -11dB on the EX1, and the external large diaphragm condenser mics with their -10dB attentuators turned on. This yielded peak levels of -8dBfs on the explosions. The crowd noise was peaking at -76dB. And I heard no hiss.
If you're hearing hiss, it's possible you have a defective EX1, or a noisy microphone, or are using less than optimal gain staging.
Record volume should be set to "5" and left alone. Any higher and you'll introduce noise without improving headroom. Use the attenuators to set actual record levels, for optimal gain staging.
Are you using dynamic or condenser mics? What is the sensitivity rating of the mic? That could be your problem, as well. A dynamic can be as low as -74dB sensitivity, requiring a LOT of gain on the EX1 preamp. I used condenser mics with -37dB sensitivity ratings, so I don't have to make up the extra 40dB in the EX1's preamps.

[basspig]

basspig,
Is there any way we can bye-pass the limiters on the EX1?
(Other than reducing levels, that is).


Unfortunately, no.
There are two stages of crude limiting in the EX1: the first appears before the Rec volume control and another lies downstream of the Rec volume control.
You'll know right away if you're hitting it if there's audience applause and the levels sound choppy, with no attack on the hand claps.
Of course, there is also a switchable AGC, which bypasses all the attenuators and is basically useless in high SPL environments.
Two months ago, I recorded Eric Burdon in concert here in Connecticut, and he was pretty loud, playing to an outdoor audience of 5,000+ fans. I was right up at the edge of the stage, sometimes inches from the PA speakers and I had the attenuator at -18dB, but upon review, I see that it needed to be -11dB to give enough headroom (some of the louder snare drum hits were compressed and losing attack). The noise floor is low enough that one doesn't really have to be too concerned with maxing out the record levels--this is no PD150. I simply normalize in post and it comes up fine, and without hiss.
The trick is to stay well below the trigger threshold for the limiter.

[DavidChia]

we set up originally with a "Filmic" preset found on the net and then tweaked it...

Hi Noel,

Would you be so kind to share the present that you found on the net?

Cheers...

[Noel Evans]

The trick is to stay well below the trigger threshold for the limiter.

Well we were possibly hitting in to it. So thats good info. I can guarantee my Sanken cs3 was not to blame.

[Noel Evans]

Hi Noel,

Would you be so kind to share the present that you found on the net?

Cheers...

David, the camera op / owner bought them along, so I am not sure where he got them. But, he mentioned he just googled for them and found it in a forum somewhere. Its like a preset spreadsheet.

Noel

[Stevet]

Basspig is correct. I found this out the hard way myself. It would of been nice if Sony provided these details.

[adamr316]

Basspig,

So is your attenuator menu option always set to -11dB to counteract the gain noise over level 5 issue? Also, you say 4 "segments" below redline. I sometimes use -12dB for "Analog 0dB" reference and other times -20dB as shown on the audio level indicator Status page. -20dB is "digital zero" on most professional cameras...what about the EX1?

[basspig]

I use different attenuator settings, depending on the situation and sound levels expected.

For very quiet nature sounds, I'll set it to match the rated sensitivity of the microphone, ie., for the NT4, -38dB. This maximizes s/n ratio for that recording situation.

If I'm recording live acoustic jazz, I'll run it in the -29dB range.
If really loud pyrotechnics, -11 or -8dB and possibly external attenuation as well.

The EX1 can never reach 0dBfs digital because of the peak limiters. At least not with steady state tones. It can reach clipping with sudden attack sounds that the limiter is too slow to respond fully to, but when the limiter finally does respond, the levels will pump radically and the result is nasty.

If you can avoid getting too close the the threshold of limiting, the EX1's audio can be very transparent. I find that threshold to be somewhere around the 4th segment below the red segment on the audio meters on-screen on the EX1 display. Generally, if the average levels at, say, a music performance, are peaking at mid-scale on that meter, I consider that a safe level that will strike a good balance between noise floor and limiting/clipping. Don't be afraid to under-record--the EX1 is very clean and quiet and you can normalize the recorded audio in your NLE with very little noise being apparent in the result.

[adamr316]

basspig,

Using the 4th segment under red is actually right where digital audio peaks should be. If you check the audio status page 4th segment down from red...that's right around -10 dB or -8dB. -12dB is the consumer audio "0 dB" analog reference level. Professional level is -20 dB for 0dB analog reference. The extra 12 decibels (or in the case of professional audio reference, 20dB due to better audio circuitry and lower noise floor like the EX1) and is how all digital cameras with audio operate.

[basspig]

One would be inclined to ask, why couldn't Sony just make 0dBfs digital clipping and have it operate just like any traditional digtial audio interface. Alas, it is a mystery as to why they put the limiters in there... well, maybe not. They were probably trying to anticipate overdriven levels. Only drawback is they used such a crude limiter that folds back a millisecond or so after the peak, which sounds really nasty.

But if you nail the levels just right and stay below that threshold, the EX1 will produce stunning audio, about as good as any digital audio interface clocked at 48KHz. Listen to the transients on my ExposureRoom clips of "The Troll" rock band. The snares seem to want to crack your head open, they hit so hard in this recording. I had 15dB of headroom and normalized it 15dB upwards in post. This is the kind of audio the EX1 is capable of, in competent hands.

[Noel Evans]

Ill get some grabs up tomorrow night local time for me.

[Noel Evans]

Moved them to grabs section

[Stevet]

Nice frames Noel.
I bet this looks really good at full scale.