Image Stabilization for Helicopter

[lawrenceingram]

Hello,

I've been reading through some other threads, but just thought I'd see if anyone had any specific experience shooting from a helicopter and could suggest some type of image stabilization. I'd really like to make sure the footage came out smooth, but see that most people are recommending against using the OIS on the HVX200 for moving shots. Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Thanks,

Lawrence

[thekreative]

gyros! that's it I think. It's what everyone I know uses. We work with the cameraman from the Collective mountain bike videos and they use them so much they bought them.

http://www.ken-lab.com/

[jetaddiction@mac.com]

yes .i have a ken lab ks8 and use it everytime i am in the heli,or shooting off a boat or a ski. don,t bother without one. also if you can put on a wide lens and shoot at overcrank of 60fps. if you can . also hang from bungys if you can . once you lift off you will forget half of what you wanted to try.

[manglerBMX]

which models are the collective dudes using? and are they doing dual gyros or just single?

[lawrenceingram]

Wow,

Thanks guys, that's really helpful. I suppose the KS8 is what I need. Not sure how I would go about rigging it with bungies, but I suppose the first thing I need to do is find out which aircraft they're going to be using. I was actually thinking of doing handheld footage, but If I can somehow rig it outside the aircraft, it would be great.

Lawrence

[lawrenceingram]

And they have rentals! That's perfect for me since I'm on a tight budget. . . my CEO/Wife has frozen all spending until I actually make some money!

But this project should pay off if I can do a good job.


if you can put on a wide lens and shoot at overcrank of 60fps. if you can

They are wanting a shot of their facility to show its size in order to highlight the legitimacy of the organization. Do you think a wide lens would be appropriate, or would the standard lens be best?

Thanks again guys, great suggestions!

Lawrence

[thekreative]

cant remenber the models but they use 2 for the 2 axis

[Justyn]

A gyro is nice but it's not necessary. I've used the bungy method and that worked too but kind of cumbersome. I shot from a photo helicopter last year and it was very smooth. I do agree that shooting 60fps is good.. and shooting with OIS isn't a bad thing. You don't need a gyro unless you are shooting telephoto shots. If you are shooting wides and establishing you'll be fine without one.


Here, this was all shot handheld with no bungies with the stock HVX lens:

http://www.electriccowtheater.com/CCVIDEO/CC/demo.mov


cheers and you'll be in for a fun ride. We did some darn stunt flying with the wakeboarders. Our tail was actually in the water for a few shots... crazy but so fun..

[lawrenceingram]

Here, this was all shot handheld with no bungies with the stock HVX lens:

Wow, that was GREAT! What beautiful footage. I've flown a lot of helicopters to rigs (I work offshore as well), but never with a camera, so I'm really excited. And it's always nice to get tips from guys who've been there with the HVX and will even share footage. I won't be shooting the shot until mid-August, but I'll post back to let you guys know how it went.

Thanks again,

[OUinLA]

tyson mount with gyros

[lawrenceingram]

Forgive the probably newbieness of this question, but I can't seem to find a tyson mount. Is that something I need when using a gyro, or can it just fit to the bottom of the HVX?

[Glen Gustafson]

They might have meant a Tyler Mount
http://www.tylermount.com/frameshome.html

A Tyson mount is probably something that clamps onto your ear...

[lawrenceingram]

A Tyson mount is probably something that clamps onto your ear...

That's HILARIOUS! Sorry, had to have a chuckle for that.

Thanks, that is it. I was going to try renting one of the ken-lab gyros and just hand-holding the camera (I don't have any fancy mounts or handles). Can anyone tell me why I would be better with a Tyler mount?

Lawrence

[seunosewa]

Here, this was all shot handheld with no bungies with the stock HVX lens:

http://www.electriccowtheater.com/CCVIDEO/CC/demo.mov
I'm guessing you didn't switch off the OIS, because I think that would be a big mistake. I would suggest shooting with a fast shutter speed and OIS on and then using Virtualdub and the "DeShaker" plugin to stabilize it further. The fast shutter is to prevent motion blur, which would be out of place in the stabilized footage.

[John Godden]

A gyro is nice but it's not necessary. I've used the bungy method and that worked too but kind of cumbersome. I shot from a photo helicopter last year and it was very smooth. I do agree that shooting 60fps is good.. and shooting with OIS isn't a bad thing. You don't need a gyro unless you are shooting telephoto shots. If you are shooting wides and establishing you'll be fine without one.


Here, this was all shot handheld with no bungies with the stock HVX lens:

http://www.electriccowtheater.com/CCVIDEO/CC/demo.mov


cheers and you'll be in for a fun ride. We did some darn stunt flying with the wakeboarders. Our tail was actually in the water for a few shots... crazy but so fun..

Very nice promo Justyn. IQ was outstanding.

JohnG

[New_Zealand]

A gyro is nice but it's not necessary. I've used the bungy method and that worked too but kind of cumbersome. I shot from a photo helicopter last year and it was very smooth. I do agree that shooting 60fps is good.. and shooting with OIS isn't a bad thing. You don't need a gyro unless you are shooting telephoto shots. If you are shooting wides and establishing you'll be fine without one.


Here, this was all shot handheld with no bungies with the stock HVX lens:

http://www.electriccowtheater.com/CCVIDEO/CC/demo.mov


cheers and you'll be in for a fun ride. We did some darn stunt flying with the wakeboarders. Our tail was actually in the water for a few shots... crazy but so fun..

Great footage. Were you shooting 1080 or 720?

[Justyn]

I'm pretty sure that it was shot Fast shutter. I shot all the nautiques stuff at 1/500th or 1/1000th and it was all 720p 60fps.


Thanks.

[Steve Laramie]

I just got done with a helicopter shoot. I forget the name of the gyro but it was in the skyfox for fox29 news and it costs just a hair under how much the chopper costs

[lawrenceingram]

Thanks for all the info guys! I'll have to wait until I get onshore tomorrow to download the clips (not even up to dial-up speeds out here). But something like a 1/500th shutter speed and 720p60 sounds like it'll be the best option. My client is willing to pay for the gyro rental. Should I go ahead with that, or just go without? If it will make it any better, I'm sure they'll appreciate it.

What do you guys think? Gyros or no gyros?

Lawrence

[Justyn]

I'd say get it if they are paying for it, but if you could pocket the money.. then I'd say to go without it. Either way though you should become familiar with the extra weight and how it feels. I've shot a couple of times with one and it was a bit weird. Make sure too, that you allow the gyro to get up to speed before shooting. I think like 5 minutes is needed... There's a few websites that give you feedback on the best way to deal with the gyro and battery stuff.


cheers and good luck. It's a ton of fun up in a chopper. Bring some gaffers tape as well.. to tape your seatbelt closed. In our situation I was hanging outside the chopper, standing on the skids with just the seatbelt holding me in.. hmmm, that was pretty friggin awesome. The other thing that i noticed is that things don't seem as scary and or crazy when you have earphones on or earplugs in. When you hear the raw sound of the chopper, that's when the immediacy of the blades and everything else kind of hits ya...


The other thing to consider is your P2 offloading and such. I did have a friend who had problems using his firestore on a chopper.. and I really wasn't able to use my P2store so I had to carefully pick what I wanted to shoot. If y ou can borrow P2 cards then that might be advisabel.


cheers

[lawrenceingram]

Justyn, that is fantastic advice. A lot of stuff there I hadn't considered. This company will be very big on safety, and I'm sure they'll be able to get me a full body harness and lanyard to tie me off properly. I was planning on shooting to P2 with my firestore as backup, then going purely to the firestore when the P2 cards ran out (I've only got 2 16GB cards). But I may have to consider this as a time to buy a 32GB card. I'll have to feed back my experience when I'm done.

Thanks very much!

Lawrence

[Justyn]

Lawrence, You are more than welcome. I had the greatest 2 hours flying in the helicopter and so will you. Safety is a big concern and so will be your offloading. Personally I wouldn't count on the firestore as it failed for a friend of mine due to the vibrations or something like that. 2x 16 gig cards at 720 slow-mo should give you a pretty decent amount of shoot time. How much do you plan on shooting? A 32 gig card might be nice as well.

[erdiaz]

I used "bungee" cords anchored to 4 or more points (see diagram), and a LCD monitor.

Point camera downside before adjust the cords.

Use short focal length (wide angle) or normal lens.

A comfortable seat and a jacket (in cold day) are very usefull.

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/6762/1217259885.jpg

This setting is very usefull in short travels, try not to force camera towards any point unless it is absolute necesary and for very short amount of time.

Try to let the camera "float", adding little or no force at all.

I hope this is usefull to you.

Sorry about mistakes, english is not my native languaje

[lawrenceingram]

Guys, I really appreciate the responses! They have two facilities for which they want aerial shots. I've only got the two 16gb cards, and the stock HVX lens. The more I think about it, the more worried I get. This is my first major client, and (obviously) their business means a lot.

The diagram of the bungies is extremely useful. That gives me some ideas. I don't have an external monitor though (I know, I'm a low-budget guy who's landed a high-budget client, so I might be in trouble). However, they do know that they're getting me EXTREMELY cheap against the market price they are accustomed to paying.

I was thinking that if we are far enough above the facility, focus should not be a major issue and I could use the HVX's built-in LCD.

[Justyn]

Lawrence. You can chill bro. Don't hold onto this project or your clients too tightly. Have some fun with it. For aerial stuff you will want to follow the action and be wide. you don't need to complicate things. I shot all my stuff with the stock lens and 3x4gig cards. You will have a good amount of record time and just don't roll and roll when it's not optimal. You'll be good and cool and you have to ACT like this isn't a big deal.

ACT like this isn't your first big break. Clients like confidence and the feeling that you've done this a million times before. Take DEEP breaths and relax bro. Just do what you have to do and let them be wowed by the footie... and DONT complicate things for yourself. You don't need to do that to get what you need, and if it doesn't work out you can hire me to come and shoot aerial RC.. we can nail that now... in the beginning it was rough, but now we've shot in the most hardcore of locations and under the craziest of conditions.

peep this, and this was our maden flight. Chopper had just been built and we had a client paying us to do something crazy:


http://www.electriccowtheater.com/SCC/lakeSCC.mov

[manglerBMX]

justyn, that was simply amazing.

[erdiaz]

You can hook up you camera to a cheap laptop trough firewire and OnLocation
to monitor and record to a external HD and don't worry about P2 cards.

see:

http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/onlocation/

You can download a full function trial here:

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/tdrc/index.cfm?product=onlocation

[ProfessorU]

Aerial shots always look best when you are super-low, because you can get a better sense of the space and use a wider lens. Gyros are amazing for heli work. There are some camera operators that can attach a camera to a remote controlled mini-heli. You can get in the "sweet spot" of 50-250 feet more easily that way. The "standard" helicopter shot (think O.J.) uses a gyro and a really long lens, this makes things look super-flat.

If you're good with Trig, you can figure out what altitude you'd like based on what lens you'd like to use.

I would advise against HDD recording of any kind while in a helicopter. Vibrations are unkind to spinning platters.

If you shoot through turbulence, you will get sick, I promise. It's disorienting enough to experience with your eyes, but if you're looking through a viewfinder, it's horrible!

[seunosewa]

You should probably avoid using zoom, right?

[Justyn]

For the most part yes, unless you have gyros and some major stabilization, but it depends grately on what you are shooting and your pilot.

[TedRR]

You haven't shot Helicopter till you shoot standing on the Skids. :beer:
After the first time doing this I got a harness that I attach around the seat. :thumbup:
If you can't afford a tyler mount or a gyrozoom the hand held method is doable. This also gives you somewhat better control and adjustment if your pilot isn't the best.
It's much easier if you have the pilot take the door off that you will be shooting from.
Get on your pilots good side because he is your "tripod" so to speak. I can usually convince the pilot to get down into a decent range, safely of course. :)
Shoot ss wide angle as you can get away with. You can re-frame in post and this allows for better image stableization in post as well.
FWIW, you don't always have a choice, but when you do use the biggest chopper your client can afford. Those R-22's and other 2 seaters really bounce around and vibrate.

We have a chopper shoot in 2 weeks and I WILL be using image stabilization.
Best of luck.

[Justyn]

Ted.. I agree with you about standing on the skids. I was about 500' up doing that and man alive it was simply awesome and when we banked and came swooshing over the water it was simply the coolest thing ever...

[pmark23]

http://shoot.kz/uploads/images/gallery/Vehicles/Helicopter%20Shoot.jpg

Sat on the floor with legs out the door, tied in with a cargo-strap. This was for a Discovery show.

[David Saraceno]

That thing looks like it went through a fire fight somewhere.