EX1 has very strange black balance problem

[FergusM]

At least I think it's the black balance..
I white balance the camera, and very often the blacks will go Magenta. So a dark blue or grey suit jacket will become dark red, purple or brown. Once it went green. Mostly Skin tones are not affected but not always; or at least they sometimes come out looking a bit strange. The white balance is fine: white is white. Doing a black balance in FCP gets me back into the right ball-park but it's not ideal.
I've had the camera for a couple of months and have seen this effect in many different lighting setups.

I've read about an Infrared problem with the EX1 and the first and worst example of this effect I had filming next to a Red curtain (maybe Jim Jannard has jinxed it.. LOL), but I just experienced it yesterday under pure Tungsten light.

Have any of you experienced a similar effect?

Here are some pics: In all these cases the jacket was really dark blue or grey... :embarasse

[gabrielflorit]

Yes, this looks like the IR problem. Do a search on the dvinfo forums, there's lots of good advice there.

[William_Robinette]

You bet. I just filmed a concert where the conductor's jacket came out magenta when in reality it was black. You need an IR filter in front of the lens to fix this problem correctly. The EX-1 displays this problem the worst out of the many cameras I use day to day.

[FergusM]

I thought as much.. It's a massive problem for me.
Are Sony planning to do anything about it? I've a mind to send it in for repair.. lol
What's the current strategy for fixing the colour in FCP? Doing a black balance on the offending "Purple" jacket mostly seems to work but the jacket might not actually be black.

[Barry_Green]

I doubt you can really fix it in post successfully because the infrared has polluted the color purity. I mean, maybe if you did a spot color correction on only certain elements...

But yes, this is the infrared problem, and tungsten lighting is the worst for causing it (tungsten lights, being on the redder end of the spectrum, are more prone to spewing out infrared).

There are several companies who are trying to introduce appropriate infrared filters for use in front of the lens. I'm not sure what the current state of affairs is on that though.

[Maheel]

I have ordered this one. The filter is available at B&H, Adorama etc. I ordered mine from Adorama. Since I still not received it I cannot give any other information re. it's effectiveness.

http://www.2filter.com/faq/tiffen/tifhotmirror.html

[Matty_g]

if it's anything like the red it's also bad when stacking a lot of nd too.
hot mirror for indoors and ir nd's for outdoors.

[thxdave]

Hey Barry, I bought a Lowel Rifa light with tungsten heads and it also has the IR problem. Would switching to the FL adapter get rid of this problem (either the single head or the 3-head option)?

[gabrielflorit]

Get the IR filter. Schneider Optics make them. There's tons of info on dvinfo.net/conf about this.

[Barry_Green]

I bought a Lowel Rifa light with tungsten heads and it also has the IR problem.The problem isn't the light, it's the camera's weak IR filtering. Most every tungsten light is going to spew out too much IR for the EX1's liking. If you want to be able to use tungsten lighting, you may have to look into getting an additional IR filter.

[thxdave]

The problem isn't the light, it's the camera's weak IR filtering. Most every tungsten light is going to spew out too much IR for the EX1's liking. If you want to be able to use tungsten lighting, you may have to look into getting an additional IR filter.

That was part of my question. If I use the FL heads instead of the tungsten heads in my Rifa, will the FL's put out any IR?

[Bassman2003]

On a side Note.

I called Sony to inquire about this issue and the tech had not heard of it and there was only one call in that he found after searching that had mentioned brown blacks.

He said the issue was resolved with a pedestal adjustment.

I think some more EX-1 owners need to speak up to Sony if this happens to a lot of folks.

[Lenilenapi]

Call the Sony guy again and tell him it was an IR issue and if they say they haven't heard of it they're either woefully uninformed about their own product or not allowed to talk about it. It should be well known by now.

[Bassman2003]

I did.

I mentioned a lot of people in internet forums were attributing the issue to IR.

[basspig]

I shot a concert last March, with a pair of V1Us and the EX1. The orchestra members were wearing black. Some of the violin section were wearing black velvet. On the V1U, they appear black in the video, but the EX1 shots of those players clearly show a burgundy reddish color to their outfits.
This video has not yet been released, but I will keep my ears open to any comments I may receive about the clothing colors changing in the video. This COULD become a serious issue with them, or it could go unnoticed.

[kubalsky]

has anyone tried targeting a color in the menu and darkening it? Does that not help at all?

[basspig]

While you might be able to tune out the red in black velvet, it might also end up misadjusting other black fabric colors, or a black piano on a stage, for example.

[Bokes]

Can this be fixed by Sony?
Any chance they will recall the camera?

[chagchag]

anyone know if placing a ir-filter between the camera lens and an 35 adapter achromat is a good idea?

[moldcad]

I can confirm that using the 486 between the Letus achromat and the EX1 lens doesn't pose any additional problems than using it as the outermost optical element (at least, I personally don't see anything apart from the same green tint; in fact it tends to happen less often with Letus as you don''t use the widest angle).

[sean90291]

Is a HOT MIRROR the same as an IR FILTER?

[shoffman11]

Exactly the same problem with suites turning brown from tungsten and outdoors lighting, some suites end up with brown collars depending on the reflectiveness of the material
Still Sony isnt aware of the problem !!!!!

My local supplier is willing to supply an IR filter at there own cost

Being an owner of many Sony Cameras this is the first problem we have encountered its frightening the camera is unusable

[Stevet]

LOL...
Yes it's unusable. Junk actually. ;)
I will buy it for $2K to get it off your hands!

[Bobonli]

So is there a hardware fix, or must one use an IR filter?

Didn't Leica have this issue with their digital version of the M6? They had to send everyone a filter.

How did this go un-noticed during the design and QC process?

[smoothmc40]

wait just a minute guys. i just spoke to a Schneider rep last week at HD Expo. he stated that you'll need a IR filter only when using more than 4 stops(1.2) of NDs. i forgot the reasoning. is he wrong? I'm going to the DV Expo tomorrow. I'll talk to Sony and Schneider again about this issue. stay tuned...

[basspig]

In all the instances where I've observed IR contamination, it was not under ND filter conditions, but indoors with halogen stage lighting. I haven't observed the problem outdoors in sunshine with ND filters.

[smoothmc40]

i spoke with a Sony rep today at the DV Expo in L.A. and he was unaware of this issue and stated that such a problem could be fixed with a little tweaking in the PPs. it looks like we need to educate Sony on this issue. EX owners "mount up"!!!

the info below has been copied and pasted from Abel Cine Tech's website. for what its worth. here it is:

Formatt recently introduced a new technology in Infrared filtering. Their IR cut filters are "Hot Mirrors," which reflect only the light in the lower IR range of the spectrum. Unlike other IR filter designs, the Formatt IR cutting layer is sandwiched inside protective layers of glass and can be used facing any direction. Abel Cine Tech has tested the Formatt filters on the RED One camera and found them extremely effective at reducing IR pollution. Abel and Formatt have created a special bundle for a set of filters that is less than half the retail price.

When no or lower levels of Neutral Density filtering is applied (up to ND.9), many clients find that no IR cut is required. For high levels of ND (ND1.2 or greater), the need for an IR cut filter is definite.