Wga Register Your Scripts [Archive] - DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

Farnsworth

07-14-2008, 01:40 PM

I mention this in the spirit of open discussion rather than just to be contrary...

I suspect that WGA registration is largely a waste of money. I did some snooping around and found some stuff to back this up. Here's a bit of an article on Copyright law from an intellectual property law firm:

"...Other than establishing a date of creation, the WGA registration gives them almost no benefits at all. In fact, relying solely on the WGA registration can prove extremely costly for the following reasons.

First, although copyright protection exists at the moment of creation, registration with the Copyright Office is required before a lawsuit can be brought. Because it can take up to six months from the time the application is mailed to the Copyright Office until the application is processed and returned, if the writer needs to immediately file a lawsuit (i.e., in order to enjoin the movie's distribution), he must apply for an expedited registration, for which the Copyright Office charges an additional $580.

Second, if the writer registers the script with the Copyright Office only after the infringement has taken place, he will be barred from recovering attorneys fees or statutory damages in the lawsuit.

Third, if the script is registered prior to or within five years of its publication, the registration acts as prima facie proof of ownership of the script, in the event of a trial. There is no such benefit form the WGA registration.

The only real advantage of the WGA registration is that, in the event of a lawsuit or a credit arbitration, the WGA will have an employee appear and testify concerning the date of the registration. But I have found that this is rarely an issue during litigation."

So the bottom line is, I guess, if you want any real protection at all, you need to register with BOTH the WGA and the Copyright Office. Online copyright registration costs $35 minimum, and WGA registration is $20. So now you're talking about $55 total.

Isaac_Brody

07-14-2008, 01:51 PM

Yeah, for short scripts I go with WGA. For features I copyright my work.

Farnsworth

07-14-2008, 02:43 PM

Yeah, for a feature I'd DEFINITELY do both. That's too much hard work to risk.

But is the money you spend registering your short with the WGA really going to get you anything? What happens if, say, a year from now you see a short film exactly like the script you wrote for Scriptfest, produced by somebody you never heard of and with no credit given to you whatsoever. What's your course of action?

Would you pursue legal action? Will the WGA registration help you win your case at all? And who's going to pay the massive legal fees? What of value do you get for your $20? So far the only answer I can find is that it might be a deterrent to somebody considering stealing your work. Emphasis on "might". Otherwise, it doesn't seem to provide much actual protection at all.

(I've always just registered my stuff with the WGA, assuming that was the thing to do. It's only recently I've started to question exactly what it gets me. I'm really curious to hear views on this!)

ConspiracyPenguin

07-14-2008, 02:55 PM

thartley

07-14-2008, 07:39 PM

Well, I'm going to ask the stupid question.

If you have a project that is not 100% complete, but the treatment for the partial project is being looked at and shopped around, do you copyright the draft you have thus far or wait until it is a final draft?

Do you have to re-apply for copyright on subsequent drafts or re-writes?

Isaac_Brody

07-14-2008, 08:13 PM

You register your treatment, this protects your idea so that when you show it to people they can't rip you off. Then register your draft when it's done. You would only re-register your draft if the project had changed significantly. A couple changes wouldn't warrant re-registering.

Farnsworth

07-15-2008, 07:16 AM

I think if that happened and it was your script word for word I would sue and put in a stipulation that I want all litigation fees paid for by the other party in the event that the court takes my side, which they would, because someone from the WGA would testify to the fact that I indeed wrote the script, not whoever was credited for it.

But according to the law firm I quoted above, you cannot bring a law suit against this other party until your script has been registered with the copyright office. And if you register with the copyright office AFTER the infringement has taken place, you are not entitled to recover attorney fees or statutory damages.

Cryogenic Filmworks

07-15-2008, 09:00 AM

But according to the law firm I quoted above, you cannot bring a law suit against this other party until your script has been registered with the copyright office. And if you register with the copyright office AFTER the infringement has taken place, you are not entitled to recover attorney fees or statutory damages.

You can sue for anything (and in this day and age lots of people sue for all kinds of crap). If you are registered with the WGA, they will (from the information I have read off their site) will assist you with the lawsuit. You cannot collect money damages however (for the most part). If you are registered with the copyright office, you are eligible for money damages. WGA protects you and you can sue, but copyright office allows you to collect money on that lawsuit. (that's the way I understand it at least).

Farnsworth

07-15-2008, 02:20 PM

Interesting. So if not cash, what can you sue for? To block the film's release? Most shorts never see any kind of official release. I guess you could prevent it being shown at festivals and so forth, but is the legal and financial hassle worth it?

Or maybe screen credit? Again, is the hassle of the law suit worth it?

I'm still not seeing how WGA registering a short script benefits me. :) Copyright, yes. WGA, not yet.

strangways

07-18-2008, 11:24 AM

As I understand it, for union films, the WGA often helps determine who gets credited (and how) for writing the film.

For example, if writers collaborate, or one works to revise the work of another, they get their names listed with either "&" or "and" to denote this difference. I just can't remember which is which.

Also, to be credited for a revision, the WGA will look at it, compare it to the previous version, and determine how much was altered. We're not talking typos here, but actual story changes.

So, in those situations, WGA registration is useful. For an independent film? Maybe not so much.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of the above.

Farnsworth

07-19-2008, 08:29 AM

As I understand it, for union films, the WGA often helps determine who gets credited (and how) for writing the film.

I believe those rules apply only to films being written under a WGA contract, which is a completely separate thing from films *registered* with the WGA.

Tim Joy

07-19-2008, 08:24 PM

I've been thinking about this whole copyright/ registration thing and I don't see much of a point, at least at the level I'm working at, which may be the same level a lot of people are at here.

If someone steals MY script and makes a little short film out of it, to me, that's GREAT. It means they thought it was good enough to shoot with, and I would want to see how they made it. I'm sure they'd do it all wrong, but wouldn't it be interesting to see?

If I still want to shoot it after that, then I will. Who cares? I'll have a different movie, and probably better than the "theives' " because I'll get to see the weak parts of the script and can fix it.

Now if the evil stealers copyrighted "MY" script and barred me from using it, now that.... that would be... like.. very uncool, and I might have to pay them a visit with my tire iron and my friend named Bubba. :kali:

Mike Manning

08-21-2008, 05:44 PM

WGA registration is worthless without having copyrighted your script. The first thing a judge will ask in court is "Who owns the US Code - Title 17 Copyrights to said document." If you do not own the copyright, you LOSE! If you feel the need to register it with WGA, it can't hurt... especially if they'll send someone to testify. But you can't solely rely on it.

alex whitmer

08-22-2008, 04:42 PM

The 'politically correct' term used by idea thieves is 'mining'. When they see a script they like, or one with nuggets of marketable concepts, they mine it, and leave the slag for the orginal writer/s.

This way they get the best parts of the concept with out actually copying it or 'stealing' it, and the original script is rendered useless. To sue is difficult at best, and for the little guys, a joke. And theives know it.

Festivals are rife with these same 'miners', sent out to harvest ideas and get them back to the office asap and lock them up.

People do this to each other? Absolutely, and remorse has no place in film.

Registering is no guarantee.

a

tykrusch

11-03-2008, 10:41 PM

WGA register your scripts. It doesn't cost much and it's a good habit to get into. Especially when sending your scripts into the "ether" of the internet. I eat ether for breakfast.

Writers Guild of America West
http://www.wgawregistry.org/webrss/
Cost: $20

Writers Guild of America East
https://www.wgaeast.org/script_reg/
Cost: $22

Is this process any different for Canadians?

LadyNatasha87

02-12-2009, 01:39 AM

I am from the UK where should I register my scripts?

StormFactory

02-27-2009, 09:30 AM

For example, if writers collaborate, or one works to revise the work of another, they get their names listed with either "&" or "and" to denote this difference. I just can't remember which is which.

& = you writer as a team

and = you are not a team and one of you rewrote the other

DVXUser Post
written by
Strangways & StormFactory

Means that we wrote the script together.

DVXUser Post
written by
Strangways and StormFactory

Means that I rewrote you.

Kmaia

03-23-2009, 11:08 PM

That's very interesting...I would not have thought to register the treatment! I will now though.

Leah

08-13-2009, 08:52 AM

Hi
I co-organize a screenwriters group in Austin and we tell our writers all of the time.
1. Copyright your work
2. Register with WGA after you copyright your work
3. If the worst happens, realize that you are a creative person and if you dreamed up one creative idea thats fantastic you will go on to dream up 30 more. However the low down son of a dog who stole your idea is a one-trick pony.
So in summation protect your stuff and be realistic.
I will say in our open critiques we have our writers sign non-disclosure agreements, really just to be able to kick them out of the organization if their fingers or ears become sticky but it is a minor thing legally. Of course this was started by someone coming in to edit scripts, picking up a copy and trying to leave while the writer was asking for the return of the copy. Guy did NOT want to give it up. My partner got it back for the writer and we booted the jackass out.
What can I say it is a tough sandbox at times. Protect your stuff legally just do not do not mail it to yourself. That is a myth.
Be Well
Leah

Mike Manning

08-13-2009, 12:32 PM

This thread really should be "COPYRIGHT YOUR SCRIPTS"

You only NEED to register with the WGA if you're a member of the WGA. Otherwise there's really no point unless it helps you sleep better at night.

PannyManiac

08-14-2009, 08:04 PM

Most people know better than to blatantly steal ideas/concepts and try to repackage them. Unfortunately, the business is full of dishonest and greedy individuals looking to exploit anyone for a quick buck.

Having a work copyrighted with the WGA is better than just putting a © symbol on a hard copy or in the credits of your film, and also serves as the extra piece of proof you might need to build a case against someone who has stolen your work. If a major studio winds up swiping your work, though, you're pretty much screwed.

The most important thing to AVOID is discussing your script/ideas to anyone not involved in the production until the contract has been signed, copies have been made and notarized, and the check is in the mail.

Anthony Todaro

11-02-2009, 07:21 PM

Greetings all,

This is my first post. I have been doing some research on this subject and would like to share some findings.

Farnsworth's citing of that other post is dead-on. I used to blindly register with the WGA as all my screenwriting books and WGA member friends have advised me to do so over the years.

Hands down, it's pointless if one is not in the guild.

Copyright
- $35 one-time fee, good forever
- Time-stamped
- Allows the recovery of fees and damages (THIS IS HUGE! -- GOOGLE: sophia stewart)
- It is literally the ipso facto standard for written work in the legal system

WGA
- $20 every 5 years
- After 5 years, if not re-registered, the work becomes available for WGA members to peruse
- Time-stamped
- No legal advantages, court isn't likely to call a "WGA-rep" for a "time-stamp"
- Often promoted by, WGA friendly, "how to" resources as a standard, but it is simply a revenue builder

Important stuff to note:

• A copyright or WGA registration, does NOT protect one's idea, only the written work itself.

• The title of one's screenplay is not protected by a copyright or WGA registration.

• The title of a one's screenplay or film will only be issued a "trademark" if it is a series of works not a single work. (One might consider not registering with a really awesome title, as it is not protected.)

I now only use ©'s on all my work, shorts, features and treatments. If I ever make it into the guild, I will use WGA registration in combination, as to support the union.

Until then, I'll keep my $20 and my titles to myself. :)

Chris_Keaton

11-02-2009, 09:26 PM

Can you get your stuff out of the WGA's files if you don't want to keep paying them?

Anthony Todaro

11-03-2009, 02:04 AM

Can you get your stuff out of the WGA's files if you don't want to keep paying them?

Good question.

I got this from WGA.com:

Q: Can material be withdrawn or removed from the Registry?

A: Deposited material cannot be returned to the writer without defeating the purpose of registration. It is therefore important to always retain a separate copy of the material being registered. However, one or more of the listed authors, identified by photo ID, may purchase copies.

This is regarding "re-registration" -- It clearly states that they purge the work after 5 years. Also it says no one but the author has access to the work, but I have heard otherwise from internal sources.

Q: What happens if I don't renew my registration?

A: Registration is valid for a five-year period. Once you submit material for registration, you authorize the Guild to destroy the manuscript without notice to you upon expiration of five years from the effective date. Material that is not renewed is destroyed and purged from our possession. Once material is destroyed, the Registry will not be able to submit your work as evidence to any Guild-related or legal proceedings.

StormFactory

11-03-2009, 03:10 AM

Anthony Todaro

11-03-2009, 01:03 PM

I registered my material with the WGA before I was a member and I still do after becoming a member. There are benefits, union or non, I'm just to tired to type them.

There are new registries cropping up but I would stick with the WGA and/or www.copyright.gov.

Hey StormFactory if you get some time or have a link, I would love to find out what benefits registering a work with WGA offers non-members, other then a time-stamp and a WGA rep to stand in court regarding that stamp.

From all the literature on their site I only got: time-stamp and a court rep.

I don't like the idea of having to re-register all of my works with WGA every 5 years, just for a time-stamp.

My US copyright covers them forever for a one-time $35 fee and a copyright will allow me, legally, to seek damages and recoup legal fees if I need to sue. Also, one cannot sue without a copyright so it just seems logical.

Why pay for 2 time-stamps?

As a WGA member, is there any truth to you guys having access to old submissions, or is that my other WGA buddies F'ing with me? Lol. Probably the latter.

I love a good conspiracy!

lasiksurgeon

11-13-2009, 06:38 AM

If you have a project that is not 100% complete, but the treatment for the partial project is being looked at and shopped around, do you copyright the draft you have thus far or wait until it is a final draft?
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Anthony Todaro

11-13-2009, 02:42 PM

I am by no means an expert and have never negotiated a deal... but, I would recommend that anyone showing their work should copyright that material. If it isn't, how will you prove it's yours?

You can copyright your treatment and your rough draft. If the story changes drastically from the first draft then get another copyright for the "new" story. I usually just write my script, work through my drafts, then copyright when I'm done.

Because you are working and negotiating, I would get copyrights for everything, ASAP.

Also, if you have a great title and you don't trust the party you are negotiating with, don't reveal it until you sign a deal.

Good luck!

Chris_Keaton

11-14-2009, 08:27 AM

I think you just responded to a spam message. Who puts foreign ads in their fake signature and only posts once? Spammers that's who. They are getting more creative though.

Sumfun

11-14-2009, 01:23 PM

Actually, I have the same question. Should you copyright your treatment? After all, the treatment is just ideas, and those are not copyright-able.

StormFactory

11-14-2009, 01:40 PM

If you have a project that is not 100% complete, but the treatment for the partial project is being looked at and shopped around, do you copyright the draft you have thus far or wait until it is a final draft?This questions needs clarifying. What do you mean by project? Do you mean script? Are you not 100% done with the script? If you are not done writing the script, but you are sending out the treatment, then stop sending out the treatment. You show people the treatment before you write the script. Since you are already writing the script, just wait until you are complete and send that out. Register and copyright it first, then send it out. Also you should have registered your treatment before sending it out. You can register treatments the same way you register scripts.

StormFactory

11-14-2009, 01:47 PM

Actually, I have the same question. Should you copyright your treatment? After all, the treatment is just ideas, and those are not copyright-able.True, you can not copyright an idea, but once you put the execution of that idea into a tangible form like a treatment, screenplay, book, etc., then it can copyrighted.

This is a section from the FAQ at the www.copyright.gov (http://www.copyright.gov) web site.

How do I protect my idea?
Copyright does not protect ideas, concepts, systems, or methods of doing something. You may express your ideas in writing or drawings and claim copyright in your description, but be aware that copyright will not protect the idea itself as revealed in your written or artistic work.

Sumfun

11-15-2009, 04:25 AM

True, you can not copyright an idea, but once you put the execution of that idea into a tangible form like a treatment, screenplay, book, etc., then it can copyrighted.

This is a section from the FAQ at the www.copyright.gov (http://www.copyright.gov) web site.

How do I protect my idea?
Copyright does not protect ideas, concepts, systems, or methods of doing something. You may express your ideas in writing or drawings and claim copyright in your description, but be aware that copyright will not protect the idea itself as revealed in your written or artistic work.

This is exactly why I was wondering if it's useful to copyright a treatment.

For example, say you write a treatment for the movie "The Matrix", which has some fairly unique concepts. Your treatment consists of a summary of each scene in the movie. Now if someone reads the treatment, writes out the full screenplay of the Matrix movie, and sells it, would they be violating your copyright? I don't think so, because although you're both expressing the same idea, the form of expression is very different. So therefore, the copyright didn't really protect your treatment.

Or am I wrong here?

Chris_Keaton

11-15-2009, 08:19 AM

You're right SumFun. You can't protect titles or ideas or themes. You can only protect strings of words in the order presented. But you can always sue for anything and a jury may still decide there was some impropriety going on, so most people will probably contact you to get some kind of permission or buy you off when this is discovered. If you refuse they'll probably just take the chance that you would lose a lawsuit. Because as I mentioned earlier you can't protect an idea.

Sumfun

11-19-2009, 09:07 AM

Well, I guess copyrighting your treatment is better than not copyrighting it. At least you'll have some leverage if someone tries to steal your idea. And it's only $35.

Now here's another question. If you have multiple documents, say a screenplay and 3 treatments, can you copyright them together as a collection? That way you save money, especially if you make changes to your documents, and you're afforded the same protection.