EX1 versus EX3, why or why not?

[falves1]

I am about to buy either or, and I do only interviews. Is it worth to get the EX3 at 8K+ or stay with the EX1 at 6.5K? Beyonds removable lenses, is there any other innovation on the EX3 that makes it clearly superior to the EX1?

[cpaek72]

Yeah, there is the lcd that you can now use outdoors, which was pretty useless before, the curved back that you can now use on your shoulder, dial for choosing frames and the optional mount on the back for the hard drive. I would say it's worth it just for the removable lenses, but ergonomically it's much improved - for the most part.

[gabrielflorit]

The EX1 works fine outdoors with the $19.95 Hoodman 400. But I'm sure the EX3's LCD is an improvement nonetheless.

[MattDavis]

I do only interviews. Is it worth to get the EX3 at 8K+ or stay with the EX1 at 6.5K?

I shoot the same kind of stuff with my EX1. Corporate interviews.

As much as I hate to say this, the EX-3 may be a better choice if you can afford it, because whilst the image may be identical, the EX-3 will have 'presence'. Pimp it up with matte box, unnecessary stick mic with dead cat, heavy-set tripod. In corporates, it's what they want.

I am flabbergasted that in this day and age, we still have to pimp cameras for corporate shoots. The EX-1 will deliver jaw-dropping expensive images, and the EX-3 will do the same - no better, no worse. But the EX-3 will get the better response from 'The Suits'. They will deliver better responses, take you more seriously, do more one-takers, and generally be happier. An EX-1 will do just as well, but the fresh meat will do more for an EX-3.

I hate this fact (as an EX-1 owner). But that's how it goes.

The EX-1 is a fantastic candid camera, it's invisible, you get moments that a shoulder-mounted camera could never get, and I love it to bits. But I buy a big French Flagged Matte Box not to protect my lens, but to put lipstick and eye-liner on my EX-1.

I now know that the EX-3 looks like a modern cut-down DSR-570. Yes, the 570 is probably the better camera for SD thanks to bigger chips and better glass, but if you're shooting talking heads, it's a third of the cost of a tricked out 570 and the images look pretty good.

You're up against big bruiser macho cameras that deliver lesser images than the EX line. The EX-1 is an Ugly Betty, the EX-3 is an Agent Starling. Even the analogy gets me red mist.

My clients seem to be settled on "EX1 shoots professionally whilst not looking too expensive" whilst I bet if I did an EX3 shoot the 'expensive' poke would disappear, and for my clients, I'd lose out to DSR-570 teams. Hmmm. I'll stick with EX-1, others can/should go EX3.

Discuss? :)



PS: Invest in SxS cards. I mean it. You need 4 x 16 GB. I LOVE this workflow, but you really need to shoot with gay abandon all day, then on-line to hard disk each evening. You DO NOT want to be finding your laptop during the day. I would spend more on SxS cards with the EX-1 rather than get an EX-3 if my budget was tight.

PPS: I own an 8 and a 16. I rent 1-2 16s on event jobs, and will buy 2x 16s when the price moves. No kidding. Get more SxS than you think you'll need.

PPPS: At any point, should you think it's not worth it, look at good EX1 footage. It's all worth it. All my clients have noticed it. My day rate has increased for it. But right now, I'm working out if my Second Camera should be an EX-1 or EX-3. However good my footage looks, it's how the talent performs. Sometimes they need to be in front of a big pimped camera. So right now (at my price bracket) I'd go for an EX-3 over a DSR-570 whilst agonising over an F-355. I'd shove a Matte Box in front of an EX-3 quite frankly.

[falves1]

What Matte Bpx do you recommend? I will get one. And what lenses for siomple interviews from 15 feet away. Stock lenses?

[MattDavis]

What Matte Bpx do you recommend?

For corporate interviews, a cheap one! :)

I mostly film corporate events, so a nude EX1 is ideal because it's almost invisible. It's only when I film interviews with power-suits that I feel I want to hide my EX1 behind a matte box.

And what lenses for siomple interviews from 15 feet away. Stock lenses?

Yes.

I have an EX-1 so I'm working with its fixed lens. And I have no complaints. The speed at which I have to work, even a 35mm adaptor like the Letus (which is very desirable) would get in the way in my line of work.

To be clear about this: I have 2x Z1s, a PDX10 and a HV20 in addition to my EX1.

I am seriously considering cashing in my 2 Z1s and putting the money towards an EX-3 when a good Wide Angle lens comes out as I'm totally sold on the EX workflow for Standard Definition (film in 720p25 for progressive or 720p50 for interlace).

But I'd still say budget for twice the amount of SxS cards that you think you need up front, and I'd have more SxS and an EX-1rather than a couple of cards and an EX-3. You can rent cards (I do at the moment), but after a while it really bugs you not having them available at the drop of a hat.

[ddh]

I have found that a matte box on the front of any small camera (my dvx 100 for example) pumps it up to being taken as a serious camera! Corporate suits do have a thing for big (had to pull out the Beta SP on more than one occasion) but they also have a thing for what passes as a movie camera!
A good matte box does the trick every time!

[jls4]

Hey Matt,

PM me when you get ready to sell one of your Z1us. I'm thinking of getting a Ex1, but I want a 1080i CCD Camera as a backup in case I need "fast moving shots". I primarily do movies, so 2 cameras - one for static slow moving shots and another for fast moving, flickering shots would be ideal.

Let me know what your sell price is and how many hours you have on the heads. Thanks

[booth]

Yep, I would rather spend the money on a Red Rock matte box, and a Letus extreme than the EX3 at the moment. Much cheaper and more functionality too, and makes the camera look pimped out.

[Lor]

As far as I know (and it could be wrong) there is really no major improvement to the EX3 over the EX1. The resolution is the still the same. The LCD resolution is also the same. EX3 still uses CMOS and rolling shutter. And as many mentioned above, the only major change is the look and feel of the camera (aesthetics) plus the capability of having a hard drive hookup to the camera. However, here's what I'm wondering. If I'm using some kind of a support kit, I don't see how can't add the hard drive to the system.

For me, it's hard to justify paying over $2,000 just for the look and feel of a camera unless my business has to do with having a nice/cool looking camera.

[DavidChia]

As far as I know (and it could be wrong) there is really no major improvement to the EX3 over the EX1. The resolution is the still the same. The LCD resolution is also the same. EX3 still uses CMOS and rolling shutter. And as many mentioned above, the only major change is the look and feel of the camera (aesthetics) plus the capability of having a hard drive hookup to the camera. However, here's what I'm wondering. If I'm using some kind of a support kit, I don't see how can't add the hard drive to the system.

For me, it's hard to justify paying over $2,000 just for the look and feel of a camera unless my business has to do with having a nice/cool looking camera.

Yep, I would rather spend the money on a Red Rock matte box, and a Letus extreme than the EX3 at the moment. Much cheaper and more functionality too, and makes the camera look pimped out.


Or even with a mattebox, a shoulder support and a follow focus unit from Redrock, it works out cheaper then the EX3 and it looks more pimp up ... So even if your business has to do with a nice looking camera, the EX3 is still not an option.

Only if you want the option to change HD lens that will cost a few thousand more, then maybe this is the better deal for you...

[Barry_Green]

For me, it's hard to justify paying over $2,000 just for the look and feel of a camera unless my business has to do with having a nice/cool looking camera.

The look and feel isn't that much different though; it's the same basic form factor. It's not like a traditional shoulder mount camera, it's really the same thing as the EX1 but with a pad on the back so you can but it up against your shoulder, and a tube on the LCD. The $2,000 price difference for the EX3 is mostly in the ability to remove and interchange the lens...

[Lor]

Barry, I agreed. However, the cost of an interchangeable lens to use with the EX3 is pretty expensive for many of us. It's nice to have the option...but then it's useless if I don't have the money to buy the interchangeable lens to use with.

[LuckyStudio 13]

I am more into the TC IN/OUT and GEN LOCK

[Noel Evans]

Back in the day a lot of people opted for the XL1, because it had interchangeable lenses. How many people actually put a different lens on there is another story altogether. I cant remember seeing any.

FWIW.

[PerroneFord]

Well, the EX3 also makes it a LOT easier to shoot multicam or lock to external timecode.

DXMetal beat me to it.

[RCFisher]

The reason I would prefer the EX-3 over the EX-1 is the real image out, not just a monitor connection, TC in/out, interchangable lenses. I have a job where I need really long lenses so pulling the normal lens off and making an adapter to mount a Nikon 400-600 tele lens to shoot mountain goats and other wild life is important. Also the ergonomics look so much better than the EX-1 so it will be much easier for those long days shooting verite documentaries. I personally don't like the EX-1 viewfinder way to few pixels, the EX-3 is soooooooo much nicer and sharper.

Just a few of my thoughts.

[HVXSHROPSHIRE]

the interchangeable lenses for the ex3 is so expensive. Sure its cool to be able to put a 10k piece of glass infront of your ex3 but wow, in less you have the budget to do so how economical is it to do so?

[Mark Bolding]

I think a real advantage is going to be the remote connection for paintbox, depending on what it becomes available. On a jib or a multicam shoot that will really set this camera apart.

[nsoltz]

I have been reviewing and writing about EX-1 and should have an EX-3 next week.

One of my personal concerns about the EX-1 (as I've probably written in other threads) is its ergonomics. It handles poorly for someone with small arms and wrists like me. I have seen larger-boned shooters handle it much more deftly, but without some sort of support, hand-held is impossible for me. I do not like the position of the controls and the on-off switch is tacky. The EX-3 makes a slight improvement to the on-off switch with its slightly deeper indentation, but it still is not worthy of a pro camera. EX-3 handles much better and the controls which illogically had been on the back of the EX-1 are now more accessible on the side. The shoulder mount and position of the hand grip on the lens now makes hand-held plausible (although I will still always use some form of support-- whether my efficient but dorky-looking TurtileRig or the DV Rig Junior).

To me, the handling and ergonomics of the camera are worth $2K. Only you can determine if it is worth it to you.

There will indeed be people with the budget to put a $10K piece of glass in front of the EX-3. I can easily see shooters with XDCAM HD adding an EX-3 as a B cam and perhaps using one of their lenses on the EX-3.

[Lor]

As many have pointed out and I have mentioned in various threads, one of the biggest complaints I have about the EX1 is the hand grips. Whoever designed the EX1 hand grips must not get an approval from the ergonomics deparment.

As for the LCD screen resolution, I don't know if there is actually more pixels in the EX3. I have not seen any specification saying that it is.

[EC Junior]

I was going to post this up sooner but still gathering more information =).

PMW-EX3 main differences
Interchangeable Lens for creative shooting
Time Code / GenLock (multicamera system)
Remote Control Unit Support, RMB-150 / RMB-750
Semi-Shoulder, ergonomics.Other features
Viewfinder / LCD combo: Sports the same High resolution LCD as the EX1 but with a built-in hood. Viewfinder attaches and detaches on the Hood compartment. The viewfinder / LCD combo is adjustable by its arm. Peaking, brightness and contrast located on the front of the viewfinder.
Slow & Quick motion is accessible by a button and knob where you can adjust the frame rate.
Extra Shoe located at the handle near the back. You can mount the new PHU-60K XDCAM EX Hard Drive(coming soon) or wireless applications, Lights.
The SxS media slot cover on the camera has a notch for the cable to the PHU-60K hard-drive so you can close the cover.Purchase the EX1($6,449.00)
The PMW-EX1 and PMW-EX3 uses the same technology. The included Lens are the same Fuji 14x Lens except the Lens on the EX3 is interchangable. Both features three 1/2-inch CMOS sensors, amazing 1920 x 1080 and 1280 x 720 HD recording capability plus flash memory recording. Basically, I would lean towards the EX1 over the EX3 if you don't need the new features that are on the EX3. You save $1,871.00 from purchasing the EX1. Cost Effective.

Purchase the EX3($8,320.00)
If you Prefer 3 point contact, semi-shoulder design.
Have a spare lens, interchangeable.
For the viewfinder / LCD combo with built-in LCD hood.
For Studio and multi-camera setups (Our engineering department is already drawing up plans for few Studios & TV Stations).

Below are some pictures I've taken today. They are mostly photos of the LCD. I promise more photos to come. We're setting up a studio demo at our store and I'll take more photos with information on studio setups.

1: EX1 / EX3 & also the EX30(DECK) uses the same LCD.
The EX3 has a nice lens hood.
http://www.ecprofessionalvideo.com/designs/xdcamex/EX3_Photo/LCD.jpg

2. Attachable Viewfinder, which magnifies the LCD.
http://www.ecprofessionalvideo.com/designs/xdcamex/EX3_Photo/LCD-VF.jpg

3. LCD/VF is adjustable and can be extended.
http://www.ecprofessionalvideo.com/designs/xdcamex/EX3_Photo/adj-lcd.jpg

4. LCD also has a Mirror Function:
http://www.ecprofessionalvideo.com/designs/xdcamex/EX3_Photo/mirror.jpg

5. Extra Shoe at the back for Lights, Hard Drive, Wireless audio etc.
http://www.ecprofessionalvideo.com/designs/xdcamex/EX3_Photo/shoe.jpg


I also have a thread I started on XDCAM EX availability and pre-order information. Hopefully I will have time to update that today or tomorrow with our special deals on XDCAM EX accessories w/ the camera.

[DavidChia]

True, but with a redrock mattebox and a redrock shoulder mount and a external HD LCD screen with the EX1. It would be the same price of a EX3. the only thing I see is the Gen lock and the ability to change the lens which how much is a HD lens again? But wait I have a matte box that you still need to buy if you go the EX3 way.

I wonder why not get a full real shoulder cam then.

[Lor]

Thanks for the information. It looks to me that the built-in LCD hood is a clip-on, correct?

[EC Junior]

Thanks for the information. It looks to me that the built-in LCD hood is a clip-on, correct?
Sure no problem!
The LCD Hood is built-in, not clip-on. The Viewfinder is a clip-on.

[Lor]

So then there is no way to tuck the LCD underneath the mic as was in EX1, correct?

[EC Junior]

Unfortunately you can't tuck the LCD in. I think the LCD compartment needed to be bigger to incorporate the easy access buttons from the back and the hood is made specifically for the EX3. You can adjust the viewfinder from the arm, which you can also extend.

(Photo from Philip Bloom)http://www.philipbloom.co.uk/Philip_Bloom/XDCAMEX3_files/photo3.jpg

[Tom Roper]

The problem for me personally with viewfinders, is they cause imbalanced eye strain. I'm right eye dominant, and after viewing through a viewfinder with it, my eyes seem cross eyed for lack of a better way to define it.

On my EX1, I flipped the rubber eyecup 180 degrees, and use the LEFT eye with the viewfinder piece. Now I have two benefits, no more cross-eye, and it puts the ergonomics just right, the camera nicely balanced for a two hand hold, and centered to my torso.

It's been really good optical exercise using my non-dominant eye with the viewfinder.

[RDykmans]

Tom, are you sure you're not left eye dominant? I use to do a lot of competitive shooting (firearms) and the situation you describe above sounds like a classic case of using your non dominant eye.

[Tom Roper]

Tom, are you sure you're not left eye dominant? I use to do a lot of competitive shooting (firearms) and the situation you describe above sounds like a classic case of using your non dominant eye.

Hi RD,

I think I am still right eye dominant. When I make a circle with my finger and thumb and look through it, and close one eye the image I'm seeing is from the right eye.

I did some benchrest in the day...6ppc, heavy varmint krieger cut rifled cryo'd barrel, Lapua 220 Russian (caliber) brass, Vita Vouri N133 powder, I think it was about 27.5 grains, 66 grain Jeff Fowler flat base bullets. My rifle was smithed by Ronnie Long, McMillan stock, sleeved XP100 action, Weaver target scope, a few other goodies. I still have it, but have lost some interest along the way. At the club, I could get a few .1 groups, .2 was ordinary. It probably makes me sound like a snob when all in all, I rise to about the same level of mediocrity in most competitive sports. What I proved more than anything was that I could load some good custom ammunition, and I'm an okay shooter. I'm definitely not a pistolero or fast handler type. I'm accurate enough for minor population control of a few squirrels, rabbits, prairie dogs which now I actually regret. I love animals and nature. I've had deer, elk and coyotes squarely in the sights, and cannot pull the trigger on them. I was happiest punching holes in paper and killing beer cans. I have a S&W 586 4 inch .357 magnum that I quit using, just blows my ear drums out. I prefer the balance and handling of a Springfield Armory M1911A1 .45 ACP although it's not as accurate or powerful, it just feels right. I have a couple of .223 bolt action tacticals, a Savage 10FP and Remington 700PSS, Leupold LRT 30mm scopes, a Kel Tec .223 which is kind of fun when it's not jamming, and perhaps my favorite of them all, the venerable Win 1894 .30-.30 lever action with iron sights. So there you have it, more than you wanted to know!

But to your point, I do have the same sort of an eye strain using the rifle scopes. I'm sure my right eye is dominant, but not by much. My eyes have been pretty good overall for my age, I'm 54 but I read at a 56 level :).

[killamill]

I find that the possibility of using a relay lens adapter for 35mm is a big advantage. Besides, not only P&S is not the only way to go. Soon Letus and Cinevate will have theirs...

Cheers...

[Anthem78]

I cannot find any information on attaching cinema or SLR lenses to this camera other than the standard 35mm adapter. On Sony's video from NAB, they show cinema-lenses mounted directly on the camera. And on their specs, it says "Included in the package is a ½-inch lens adaptor to allow use of other ½-inch lenses, plus the ability to use other optional lens adaptors for 2/3rd-inch, cinema-style and digital SLR lenses." (taken from the description on AbelCine.com). Does anyone have any further information on this?

And where can I find more information on a relay lens adapter.

[Jack_Felis]

By "cinema style" lenses, I believe they were talking about the Digiprime lenses for 2/3" cameras. At NAB they had an EX3 or two outfitted with some.

[Anthem78]

Ahh, missed that. Now I've figured it out. Thanks. I'm trying to decide between the EX1 and EX3, and trying to weigh all the options, 35 adapters, etc. It's a tough one. Especially with such little information on relays right now.