View Full Version : 230 MPG Hybrid
Matthew R. Rodwell
06-05-2008, 04:02 PM
http://www.aptera.com/
Looks like something from Star Wars. It is being released later this year in California for around $30,000. It just proves the potential for future car developments.
As much as I hate the raising gas prices I do think that some good will come out of it in terms of less oil dependent technology.
ugafan
06-05-2008, 04:10 PM
we'll be getting more and more electric cars in the future. it just sucks we have to wait a few years to get them.
Matthew R. Rodwell
06-05-2008, 04:13 PM
I was surprised to find out this one was coming out this year. When I was reading about it I was expecting it to be around 2010. It will still be a couple of years for the rest of the country and Europe but atleast its hitting the streets in Cali soon.
VW has the 69.9 MPG Gulf coming out but I would imagine it being pretty expensive.
Zander
06-05-2008, 04:17 PM
we'll be getting more and more electric cars in the future. it just sucks we have to wait a few years to get them.
Even though we had working models, on the road, years ago.
Mattykins
06-05-2008, 04:18 PM
I would not want to get in an accident in that. Looks like its a death trap. And eco-friendly death trap.
At least when you die, you know you helped the world.
Kegan
06-05-2008, 04:22 PM
I think it looks cool, but you'd never get out of that in an accident. Great idea too and it shows that if up and coming car companies can do it, why can't the bigger ones?
-Kegan
Thomas J. O'Hara
06-05-2008, 04:37 PM
i love it!
the 180 degree rear viewing is bad ass
JConnors
06-05-2008, 04:49 PM
Why did the make it look so ugly? It looks awful.
Matthew R. Rodwell
06-05-2008, 04:54 PM
Its passed all the government crash test, has a 360 degree roll cage like an aircraft.
Jon Starr
06-05-2008, 05:04 PM
Wow, cars of the future are ugly!
Drew Ott
06-05-2008, 05:29 PM
I think it looks pretty cool.
I'd drive it.
Mike McNeese
06-05-2008, 05:30 PM
My Arri kit definitely won't fit in there, though.
ConspiracyPenguin
06-05-2008, 05:35 PM
I am fine with more efficient vehicles, but I am tired of the "space craft" fetish these companies seem to have. You know, Chevrolet is suspending their SUV and Truck lines to make room for their new electric Volt coming out in 2010 and other more fuel efficient cars.
The only problem is, GM is talking about getting rid of the Hummer. But I am saving to afford an H1 (base MSRP $140,000 :cry:) :violin:
Once they have a good looking car (to my standards, of course) that gets mileage like that, is safe and has the power I crave all for a decent price, then I'll by it. But until then I'll stick to my '79 Trans Am and 16 MPG SUV! (Unless I go broke...)
EDIT: Another problem with all electric cars is the battery. This may be different, but I heard they don't last long and when they do go out it is a beotch trying to get rid of it and expensive to buy a new one.
EDIT 2: Actually starting to warm up to the design of this one...
Anhar Miah
06-05-2008, 05:39 PM
This really bugs me, that car could have been designed to look like a normal car, bu they have to make it look "different" just to make a point that it is different.
Damn it at least make it look sexy.... (not digging the geeky look)
example like this:
http://www.italiaspeed.com/2005/events/festival_of_speed/birdcage_75th/003.jpg
. . . Once they have a good looking car (to my standards, of course) that gets mileage like that, is safe and has the power I crave all for a decent price, then I'll by it. But until then I'll stick to my '79 Trans Am and 16 MPG SUV! (Unless I go broke...)
LOL! I hear ya! I have a '74 Camaro that I've been slowly restoring. Really sh!tty gas mileage and no pollution control whatsoever. And I love every bit of it! I'm actually thinking about installing a hydrogen kit to increase gas mileage. Should be interesting. :)
Another problem with all electric cars is the battery. This may be different, but I heard they don't last long and when they do go out it is a beotch trying to get rid of it and expensive to buy a new one.
My biggest gripe with electric cars is the charging process. For instance, the Aptera says you can go about 120 miles before recharging. Recharging takes a few hours. What happens if you need to drive for more than 120 miles before recharging? You're just stuck on the roadside at that point? Even if you make it to a recharging station in time, you're looking at probably at least 3 hours to get some real juice back into the thing. So then what, you just sit there, likely losing valuable time? Gas stations are still more practical in real world scenarios. A 5-minute pit stop and vrooooooom!
Batutta
06-05-2008, 05:56 PM
LOL! I hear ya! I have a '74 Camaro that I've been slowly restoring. Really sh!tty gas mileage and no pollution control whatsoever. And I love every bit of it! I'm actually thinking about installing a hydrogen kit to increase gas mileage. Should be interesting. :)
My biggest gripe with electric cars is the charging process. For instance, the Aptera says you can go about 120 miles before recharging. Recharging takes a few hours. What happens if you need to drive for more than 120 miles before recharging? You're just stuck on the roadside at that point? Even if you make it to a recharging station in time, you're looking at probably at least 3 hours to get some real juice back into the thing. So then what, you just sit there, likely losing valuable time? Gas stations are still more practical in real world scenarios. A 5-minute pit stop and vrooooooom!
If it's using lithium ion batteries, they can usually be charged to about 85 percent capacity in ten minutes or less.
If it's using lithium ion batteries, they can usually be charged to about 85 percent capacity in ten minutes or less.
That is more in the realm of "acceptable" to me. :)
Erik Olson
06-05-2008, 06:39 PM
That's the mileage spec on the "e" variation. They explain the mileage scenario for the hybrid as one of decaying value of between 1000 mpg and 120 mpg based upon your distance traveled and averaged speed.
California only - at least for the moment. We're first in line in NC for one of the VW SportWagens. 60 mpg highway ain't bad.
Diesel is at $4.50 / g here now, so we'll not save too much money in the bargain, but it's a huge difference against the 4.5L Inifiniti (less than 20 mpg with a tailwind) or the 4.0L Rover we're driving now.
e
Mark Harris
06-05-2008, 06:47 PM
I would so drive that. With all the money you save on gas, you could impress girls with your bling. And let's face it, in something that small, sooner or later your hand is going to miss the gearshift and fall on her knee. Perfect in. I've used that one tons of times. Even when I had the three on the tree.
ConspiracyPenguin
06-05-2008, 06:48 PM
This really bugs me, that car could have been designed to look like a normal car, bu they have to make it look "different" just to make a point that it is different.
I totally agree 150%
LOL! I hear ya! I have a '74 Camaro that I've been slowly restoring. Really sh!tty gas mileage and no pollution control whatsoever. And I love every bit of it! I'm actually thinking about installing a hydrogen kit to increase gas mileage. Should be interesting. :)
My biggest gripe with electric cars is the charging process. For instance, the Aptera says you can go about 120 miles before recharging. Recharging takes a few hours. What happens if you need to drive for more than 120 miles before recharging? You're just stuck on the roadside at that point? Even if you make it to a recharging station in time, you're looking at probably at least 3 hours to get some real juice back into the thing. So then what, you just sit there, likely losing valuable time? Gas stations are still more practical in real world scenarios. A 5-minute pit stop and vrooooooom!
Excellent, working on resoring my bird too at the moment. I guess if it can charge in ten minutes, I'm cool with that. Luckily for this one (and others I am sure) is they also take gas, so you can go several hundred miles without having to fill up or recharge because, as I understand it, the battery recharges somewhat when you are using gasoline.
Diesel is at $4.50 / g here now, so we'll not save too much money in the bargain, but it's a huge difference against the 4.5L Inifiniti (less than 20 mpg with a tailwind) or the 4.0L Rover we're driving now.
e
Disel is $5.09 here! My T/A is 6.6L, ouch!
Erik Olson
06-05-2008, 07:11 PM
Bad news man, your H1 gets about 4 mpg.
e
Mike McNeese
06-05-2008, 07:15 PM
I don't mind the look of this car. I think all things futuristic are pretty interesting. It'll definitely turn some heads.
This car would never work in the midwest, though, cuz the majority of our electricity is still from coal...so, what's the point. Gas / electric is sort of all the same.
Barry_Green
06-05-2008, 08:24 PM
This really bugs me, that car could have been designed to look like a normal car, bu they have to make it look "different" just to make a point that it is different.
Not everybody does that.
www.teslamotors.com (http://www.teslamotors.com)
And, while that's very tempting, I think I'd probably go for this one instead:
http://www.gizmag.com/go/7021/
644 horsepower, same mileage and performance categories as the Tesla, but it's all-wheel drive and has some cargo capacity and is probably a little bit less "steal me"...
Barry_Green
06-05-2008, 08:26 PM
Even though we had working models, on the road, years ago.
Don't forget the 80/20 rule. You can get the first 80% of the product done in the first 20% of the time, but that last 20% of finishing the product takes 80% of the time...
SonicStates
06-05-2008, 08:38 PM
Don't forget this company: http://www.commutercars.com/
Albeit not the prettiest thing to look at but its performance and safety speak for themselves.
Quote from manufacturers: "Because safety is such a concern for small cars in particular, we have designed the Tango around a roll cage that meets or exceeds both SCCA and NHRA regulations. These are racing organizations that specify cage design to protect the occupants of cars crashing at over 200 mph. "
George Clooney bought the first one of these I think.
I'm not sure it could be made into a grip truck though...:)
ConspiracyPenguin
06-05-2008, 08:46 PM
Bad news man, your H1 gets about 4 mpg.
e
That's why I don't have one yet...oh, and the ridiculous price tag.
Tom Marshall
06-05-2008, 08:49 PM
Change 230 MPG to 230 MPH and I'll buy one.
brianluce
06-05-2008, 09:14 PM
I would not want to get in an accident in that. Looks like its a death trap. And eco-friendly death trap.
At least when you die, you know you helped the world.
It'll always be a death trap as long as soccer moms feel they have to drive those gigantic SUV's with 7 liter engines.
ConspiracyPenguin
06-05-2008, 09:19 PM
It'll always be a death trap as long as soccer moms feel they have to drive those gigantic SUV's with 7 liter engines.
Yay for gigantic SUV's!
Richard J. Johnson
06-06-2008, 06:21 AM
we'll be getting more and more electric cars in the future. it just sucks we have to wait a few years to get them.
The Chevy Volt comes out this year. electric car. Gets 100mpg equivalent. 80 cents to charge. Can go 40 miles per charge.
Thomas J. O'Hara
06-06-2008, 07:48 AM
This site says the volt gets over 600 miles per charge.
http://www.chevrolet.com/electriccar/
mjjason
06-06-2008, 07:56 AM
There is a documentary called "Who Killed the Electric Car?' that goes through all the various reasons why the electric car failed a few years ago. For me the big reason why it failed was the technology itself. You could only travel between 50 and 100 miles before having to recharge which took a couple of hours. In the film they blame that short coming on the customers habits which is complete bull. You can't blame your customer for the short comings of your technology.
In order for an electric car to be successful it will have to match what people are use to today. Which is between 200 - 300 miles of travel per fill-up as well as filling up in 5 to 10 minutes. Also there must be a strong distribution network like there is today with gas. If those 3 issues are not addressed electric cars will continue to fail.
Anhar Miah
06-06-2008, 09:18 AM
You could only travel between 50 and 100 miles before having to recharge which took a couple of hours.
Time to clear some facts:
(1) Old Battery technology such as the Lead Acid Battery found in every car is a technology that is over 100 years old, it has really bad weight/power/sizer ratio. [1]
(2) Newer Ni-Cadium are far better [2]
(3) Even Never Ni Metal Hydrate are better than Ni-Cads [3]
(4) The latest Li-Ions (as in your latest laptop and cell phone) are far far superior. [4]
Cars with litium Ions have easy reached in excess of 400 miles per charge (see Solectra, I actually had an email exchange with the makers of that car) [5]
(5) Toshiba has demonstraded Li-Ions can actually be charged to 85% in under 60 seconds using Nano techonology. [6]
So its very easy to build electric Cars that do in excess of 400 miles per charge and charge in 60 seconds, the technology is there But the downsides:
(1) Li-Ions require battery management, more electronics, overcharging etc
(2) VERY expensive, for a battery pack to run an EV can be in the range of £5,000-£10,000
(3) Short life cycle, only maybe 5 -10 years.
Of course mass manufacture can overcome the economics, that requires the will of goverments to demand it.
-----
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-acid_battery
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-Cadmium_battery
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-metal_hydride_battery
[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery
[5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solectria_Sunrise
[6] http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/toshibas-60second-charge-battery-037558.php
Also there must be a strong distribution network like there is today with gas
For an EV, all you need is a charging socket, every petrol pump in the whole world could simply add a plug socket with ease, this is not even a problem! (assuming that country does have an electricity)
Barry_Green
06-06-2008, 09:31 AM
This site says the volt gets over 600 miles per charge.
40 miles on all-electric. If you have a gas engine on-board, that extends your range to 600 miles, but then it's a hybrid and not an all-electric at that point.
Kdawg
06-06-2008, 09:35 AM
I think I crushed one of those last week in my V-10 work truck.
BobDiaz
06-06-2008, 10:33 AM
40 miles on all-electric. If you have a gas engine on-board, that extends your range to 600 miles, but then it's a hybrid and not an all-electric at that point.
Still, having a mixed mode car wouldn't be a bad thing. All electric for short < 40 miles trips and gas for long trips. That would offer the best of both worlds.
Bob Diaz
Matthew R. Rodwell
06-06-2008, 10:55 AM
They said the Aptera will have a hybrid upgrade option for people who buy the all electric version and change their minds.
. . . Excellent, working on resoring my bird too at the moment . . . My T/A is 6.6L, ouch!
Good to hear. :) Project cars are fun. A welcome money pit! :thumbsup: So you have, what, a 400cu engine in your 6.6L TA?
Don't forget this company: http://www.commutercars.com/
Albeit not the prettiest thing to look at but its performance and safety speak for themselves . . .
Yikes, the Tango 600 series is $108,000USD!
. . . The latest Li-Ions (as in your latest laptop and cell phone) are far far superior . . . Cars with litium Ions have easy reached in excess of 400 miles per charge . . . Toshiba has demonstraded Li-Ions can actually be charged to 85% in under 60 seconds using Nano techonology . . . So its very easy to build electric Cars that do in excess of 400 miles per charge and charge in 60 seconds, the technology is there . . . For an EV, all you need is a charging socket, every petrol pump in the whole world could simply add a plug socket with ease, this is not even a problem! (assuming that country does have an electricity)
That sounds attractive. Now, all I need is for my Panny camera batteries to recharge that fast . . .
mjjason
06-06-2008, 01:41 PM
Time to clear some facts:
Yeah, technology has definitely moved on from when that documentary was made though at the time the major hang-up of the electric car was its usability. There are still major hurdles to overcome and if they overcome those three plus making it affordable than the electric car will be a viable option.
ConspiracyPenguin
06-06-2008, 05:41 PM
The Chevy Volt comes out this year. electric car. Gets 100mpg equivalent. 80 cents to charge. Can go 40 miles per charge.
I am pretty sure it comes out in 2010, check the site. Also, you are right it goes 40 miles on a charge but then the gas kicks in, Barry already covered this. They say it gets like 150 MPG equivilent if my memory serves me correctly.
Good to hear. :) Project cars are fun. A welcome money pit! :thumbsup: So you have, what, a 400cu engine in your 6.6L TA?...
A 403cu, actually, but close enough. :grin: It's a beast.
mainstreetprod
06-06-2008, 07:31 PM
IMHO, I think all electric vehicles should incorporate a solar panel in the roof, so when the vehicle is sitting in the driveway or at work, it's charging (when sunny of course).
Like this one that just came out for the Prius - rather than flat, it conforms to the roofline:
http://www.solarelectricalvehicles.com/
Why waste all that free sun power!
A 403cu, actually, but close enough. :grin: It's a beast.
Hehehe, I knew it was something like that! Nice! I have a 350cu in mine. You must have some massive torque! :thumbsup:
ConspiracyPenguin
06-07-2008, 05:08 PM
Hehehe, I knew it was something like that! Nice! I have a 350cu in mine. You must have some massive torque! :thumbsup:
Excllent. I love it, just wish I had the money to get her completely done and pretty now, but I don't.
I hear ya on that! Mine is still a bit ugly but very slowly I'm bringing her back to life!
I think the look of this will scare the hell out of most americans and they will not want to buy it for fear of looking stupid.
It always boggles my mind when companies design stuff that looks like this.
It may look cool to a small group of people but the average american is EXTREMELY conservative and wold never bee seen in something like this.
Too bad too cause boy oh boy do we need some alternatives to fossil feuls
Matthew R. Rodwell
06-09-2008, 12:30 PM
IMHO, I think all electric vehicles should incorporate a solar panel in the roof, so when the vehicle is sitting in the driveway or at work, it's charging (when sunny of course).
Like this one that just came out for the Prius - rather than flat, it conforms to the roofline:
http://www.solarelectricalvehicles.com/
Why waste all that free sun power!
Actually it does have solar cells on the roof that power the climate control. They might provide additional power as well, im not sure.
Tom Marshall
06-09-2008, 12:36 PM
I hear ya on that! Mine is still a bit ugly but very slowly I'm bringing her back to life!
Same thing with my '67 Mustang. She needs work, but... :love4:
ConspiracyPenguin
06-09-2008, 03:14 PM
Same thing with my '67 Mustang. She needs work, but... :love4:
I am right there on the same page as you two. I am hoping to do a lot this Summer. I am trying to decide if I should go with the original paint color (dark teal) or use black. Hmmmm....