Where to buy an EX1 in the LA area?

[davidil]

Hello!

I am planning to shoot a sitcom pilot with the EX1 and wanted to know if someone can recommend me a good store in the Los Angeles area. I found the camera for $4999 online but they are in NY.

Thanks!

[matthew77]

$4999 is a bogus price from a ripoff dealer for a grey market camera.

I recommend buying from an authorized dealer - if you buy from an authorized dealer in NYC (B&H, for example) or elsewhere (ROSCOR) you can save the not insignificant sales tax.

In LA there's Abel Cine, but you'll pay tax. Then again, there is a program in CA that reduces the tax on production gear to 2.5%.

[davidil]

Is this:

http://www.thecameraprofessionals.com/prodetails.asp?prodid=528795#

a "ripoff dealer"? It's $2500 less than Abel Cine.

I'm a tourist here so I will leave the country a few days after I buy the camera, maybe I can get the tax back? But anyway, is that the best/biggest store?

By the way, now I am in Tempe, AZ. Is there a good store in this area? (Phoenix area)

Thanks!

[matthew77]

Here's what the Camera Professionals store in Brooklyn looks like:

http://donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/h0207.htm

Note no address listed on the site. DON'T BUY FROM THEM!

More info:

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/the-camera-professionals-c14174.html

I would buy it mail order with overnight shipping to whatever address you are staying at. B&H and Roscor (and Fedex) are very reliable and will probably not screw up the delivery.

Roscor's site: http://www.dvwonline.com/

B&H site: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/

Just be sure that they will ship same day, and overnight. I would advise ordering by phone and not over the internet to insure that. Also, you might be able to get them to come down a bit on the price.

You might need to find a friend with a USA credit card to make the purchase - these vendors might not accept a non-us credit card.

There is generally no way to recover US sales tax as you leave the country, as the tax itself is levied by state and local governments, and not the US government. So it's best not to pay it in the first place.

[davidil]

Mmmm... Thanks for the info. But just think about it, that for the $2500 price difference, it is worth flying (no matter where you are!) to NYC and just pick up the camera from thier store... In the photo it looks like its just a warehouse but that explains why their prices are lower... if the camera is the same camera, it should not make a difference. But thanks anyway for the info, I will think about it. Maybe I will wait another month and will fly back here just to buy the EX3. In the UK where I now live it will be $6000 extra, if not more... A return plane ticket is just $700, so its worth flying over here just for that....

Thanks!

[matthew77]

I won't go into the ins and outs of the "Brooklyn Camera Stores." There's plenty of info in the web about them.

Except to say that you will never get the EX1 for that price. They won't let you pick it up at the store.

Anyway, if you pick up anything in person, you are subject to sales tax - 8.25% in NYC.

The best deal is to mail order it interstate in the US. But it certainly makes sense for you to fly here to do so.

[torv]

To answer your question, David. I would recommend Samy's Pro Video department in LA for the best price on this camera, which is the same everywhere - $6449 at a Sony authorized dealer. Not only that, they have Sandisk 16GB SxS cards for $699 which is a great price. Be warned: if you buy from one of these fly-by-night lo-ball operations you won't be able to take advantage of any of Sony's rebate offers like the addtional 8GB SxS card that you get when you buy from an authorized dealer. To mitigate sales tax, tell Samy's (or whomever) that you want the California TV/Film production sales tax rate which is I think around 2.5%. I think that combined with a local, reputable dealer assures you of better service and greater peace of mind, something that in my opinion has real value.

Good luck!

[nsoltz]

The minimum sales price of the EX-1 is $6449. No Sony CineAlta dealer can sell it for less.

[davidil]

isn't that price fixing? Shouldn't the store be able to decide itself in what price to sell it?

[matthew77]

It's not illegal for Sony to set minimum pricing.

You may have difficulty getting the 2.5% tax rate if you are not a California based production company (which I think you are not). That law is designed to benefit California businesses.

Samy's is a great store, but go out of state to save the tax.

[Barry_Green]

It is price fixing if they fix that price. But what's missing here is that $6449 is probably Sony's Minimum Advertised Price (MAP). Professional video dealers frequently are bound by their dealership agreements with the manufacturers to honor MAP whenever the manufacturer establishes a MAP. Now, that doesn't mean the dealer *has* to abide by that price, but that they cannot *advertise* any lower price.

That's why you'll frequently see B&H post a line about "add it to your cart for a lower price" -- they can't ADVERTISE the lower price, but they can sell it.

Now, confounding this is that Canon apparently did establish a you-cannot-sell-an-xlh1-for-less-than-$8999 policy. I don't know how such a policy would be legal in the USA. If Sony's trying to implement the same policy with the EX1, I would again question how that can be legal in the USA.

Of course, there's also other ways they could implement a price-fixing policy without it actually being price-fixing. A rebate to the dealer, for example, for any units sold at $6449 or above. So, let's say that Sony sets a dealer price of $6300, an MSRP of $7790, and a MAP of $6449. But, on top of that, they throw in a $500 "market development assistance" (or other term) rebate to the dealer of, say, $500 for any units sold at $6449 or above. So if you choose to sell it at $6400, you can, but then you only make $100 on each sale. But if you choose to sell it at $6449, now you make $649 per sale. So who's going to discount it to the point where they lose that rebate?

And, let's pretend that such a scenario exists (which, I don't know if it does or not). But if it does, then there's always ways to get around that too -- the dealer could choose to sell you an EX1 at $6449, and also let you buy a Sennheiser 416 at, say, $300 off normal price -- but ONLY as a package deal. In a case like that, the invoice he sends to Sony shows a $6449 sales price, so he still gets his rebate, but as far as you're concerned you just bought those two items for $300 less than you could have gotten them at the other dealer, so effectively your dealer has competed for the sale and sold for less than the other guy.

All speculation though. Price fixing is price fixing; if the manufacturer is dictating the terms of the sale to the end user then that seems to smack of illegality, so I'm sure they wouldn't be doing that (although there are ways to accomplish effectively the same thing, so it may be a matter of "a difference that makes no difference.")

[matthew77]

Barry,

Sony has the "right to refuse to deal" with anyone. That's likely the implicit threat that keeps the prices above $6449.

[Barry_Green]

Sony only deals with their dealers. If they were to try to extort their dealers, I'm sure the justice department would find that interesting.

[matthew77]

Most price fixing cases involve horizontal price fixing (between competitors) - which is clearly illegal in the US.

Vertical price fixing (such as between Sony and its dealers) is not so clear cut.

Excerpt from this wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resale_price_maintenance

"On June 28, 2007, the Supreme Court overruled Dr. Miles, holding that such vertical price restraints are not per se unlawful but, rather, must be judged under the "rule of reason." Leegin Creative Leather Products, Inc. v. PSKS, Inc., Slip Op. No. 06–480 (Decided June 28, 2007).[1]"

[Barry_Green]

Whether it's legal or not would be a matter for lawyers and courts to decide.

What matters to us here is that yes, there does appear to be a minimum sales price that the dealers are sticking to, and if someone's offering an EX1 for any significant sum below $6449, your red flags should be flying at full attention.

[matthew77]

I can agree with that.

[THoff]

Regarding the tax issue, if you are exporting the camera, you can get the sales tax back from customs. The downside is that you'll likely wind up paying import duties when you return to the UK.

[matthew77]

Regarding the tax issue, if you are exporting the camera, you can get the sales tax back from customs. The downside is that you'll likely wind up paying import duties when you return to the UK.

I've never heard of any mechanism for doing this in the US, except in the State of Louisiana, I think.

How does one go about doing this?

[nsoltz]

A Sony dealer told me that any EX-1 sold below MAP would not be eligible for the 8 gb card rebate. Additionally, he would be at risk of losing his CineAlta authorization even for selling, let alone advertising, below MAP.

[Barry_Green]

Interesting. How would it not be eligible for the rebate, since that's a transaction with the end customer, not the dealer? Would Sony penalize the end customer for the actions of an authorized dealer? That seems bizarre.

[saturnin]

this was your quote DAVID and im like WTF man.

"Mmmm... Thanks for the info. But just think about it, that for the $2500 price difference, it is worth flying (no matter where you are!) to NYC and just pick up the camera from thier store... In the photo it looks like its just a warehouse but that explains why their prices are lower... if the camera is the same camera, it should not make a difference. But thanks anyway for the info, I will think about it. Maybe I will wait another month and will fly back here just to buy the EX3. In the UK where I now live it will be $6000 extra, if not more... A return plane ticket is just $700, so its worth flying over here just for that.... "


wow.. DAVID...you seem pretty gung ho from what you have posted about getting one of these cameras and saving 2500 or whatever, traveling to Brooklyn, yada yada. I guess it makes sense to you but not everyone else,
all that shit out of brookly is a scam like everyone else posted, if you want give someone your money and get nothing in return but a weekend in brookly, by all means go, its a good deal man. REALLY IT IS!!!
Ignorance is bliss....Sigh...next..

[davidil]

so you are like 17 or something like that?