How many votes in a typical fest?

[Shawn Philip Nelson]

I am very curious, could some mods please let us know how many people voted in the last three festivals? I'm curious if we are dealing with 100 votes or a 1000 or 5000.

[Mark Harris]

I think it's usually in the 100 range. And that is high. It's kind of what makes the voting bogus. So very few votes can change the outcome.

[Shawn Philip Nelson]

I think it's usually in the 100 range. And that is high. It's kind of what makes the voting bogus. So very few votes can change the outcome.

Dang it! I knew my small amount of DVXUsers working on my movie (4) was going to bite me! I was hoping the vote was at *least* in the 500+ range.

[Mark Harris]

dunno, maybe it will grow, but when I started doing fests in 2006, some fests had fewer votes than entries :)

I only have three on my team.

[Ken K]

Dang it! I knew my small amount of DVXUsers working on my movie (4) was going to bite me! I was hoping the vote was at *least* in the 500+ range.
Well, more like 3 2/5. I'm working on it, though!

[Jack Daniel Stanley]

Guys. Whole new voting system this time. I'm not trying to be a tease but more will be announced about this later. This will make much of this discussion irrelevant.

[Shawn Philip Nelson]

Guys. Whole new voting system this time. I'm not trying to be a tease but more will be announced about this later. This will make much of this discussion irrelevant.

Glad to know, looking forward to it

[Jeff Anderson]

Cool, this should be interesting then. I'd still be curious to know the typical number of votes just out of sheer curiousity.

[Zak Forsman]

Guys. Whole new voting system this time. I'm not trying to be a tease but more will be announced about this later. This will make much of this discussion irrelevant.

dartboard?

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

dartboard?LMAO!! :grin:

As for the new voting system there have been rumours circulating. Hopefully an announcement will follow shortly.

Cheers,

Mike

[Larry R]

Also, remember, in LoveFest Jason Ramsey was a crew of 1 and still came in second. It's not about the number of people in your crew, but the quality of your entry.

And, we are very interested in ensuring that these fests are as fair as possible. I am constantly re-tooling the back end to improve performance/features/etc and in that process we continually look for ways to make the fest fair and fun for all.

[Shawn Philip Nelson]

Also, remember, in LoveFest Jason Ramsey was a crew of 1 and still came in second. It's not about the number of people in your crew, but the quality of your entry.

Oh I was just having a bit of fun, I guess I should have put copius smileys around my post :-).

Though I think the more votes the better. Hopefully we'd get a minimum of 5x votes as there are entries.

[Jason Ramsey]

What Jack said. Just yesterday Barry, and Larry and I were just hashing out a new system we want to implement this time around and then tweak it from there.

It should be a much more effective voting process in more ways than one. The voting process for you guy will be very simple.

Later,
Jason

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Once suggestion that I'm sure most would agree with... why not have them judged by a panel or outside source? It would help to avoid any popularity contests.
i.e. Friends voting for friends.

Just a suggestion that could be looked at.

Mike

[jeremytuttle]

Just thought I'd chime in and say I do like the "Top Three" way we are/had doing it. It's hard to pick just just one.:embarasse

[Larry R]

... why not have them judged by a panel or outside source? ...

All suggestions are up for discussion. However, my initial concern with this idea is that the DVX Fests were created to be of the users, by the users, for the users. The idea was not to create the next Cannes or Sundance, but to create something that first and foremost would get the users here at the site out shooting films rather than sitting in here all day talking ABOUT shooting films.

The ultimate prize really should be having a completed film to show to any and all that want to see it; and the feedback. Sometimes it is hard to be objective about our "masterpieces" and to clearly identify what works, what doesn't work. But by having these contests the work is exposed to objective parties who, for the most part, have your best interest at heart. They, like you, want to make great films and are excited when you succeed. And the feedback they offer can help you see if what you thought would work really did work and identify areas that you may be weak in so you can focus on that for the next project.

Winning, Placing, or Showing in the contest is, or should be, secondary to that. We have been inundated with fantastic prizes thanks to our generous sponsors and the tireless work of Jason knocking on doors to collect gifts to bestow on you to encourage you to do the best you can. But you should be trying to make the best film you can, not trying to "win a prize".

That's why I personally like having the users vote. In my opinion it goes hand in hand with the personal feedback each film receives. Yes, there are some who may not vote impartially, and that is a shame. Because of that we are continually looking at ways to improve the system to ensure everyone gets a fair shake, but all in all I think the cream has risen to the top time and again. Perhaps you think the top three should have shaken out a little differently, but I would venture to guess that most people agree with the top three, if not than certainly would with the top five or so.

We will continue to tweak the system to improve it and are always open to ideas/suggesstions that might improve it. This was not to say no to panels/jury's, but to explain why, in my opinion, we haven't done so up to this point.

Good luck on Time Fest! :thumbsup:

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

All suggestions are up for discussion. However, my initial concern with this idea is that the DVX Fests were created to be of the users, by the users, for the users. The idea was not to create the next Cannes or Sundance, but to create something that first and foremost would get the users here at the site out shooting films rather than sitting in here all day talking ABOUT shooting films.

The ultimate prize really should be having a completed film to show to any and all that want to see it; and the feedback. Sometimes it is hard to be objective about our "masterpieces" and to clearly identify what works, what doesn't work. But by having these contests the work is exposed to objective parties who, for the most part, have your best interest at heart. They, like you, want to make great films and are excited when you succeed. And the feedback they offer can help you see if what you thought would work really did work and identify areas that you may be weak in so you can focus on that for the next project.

Winning, Placing, or Showing in the contest is, or should be, secondary to that. We have been inundated with fantastic prizes thanks to our generous sponsors and the tireless work of Jason knocking on doors to collect gifts to bestow on you to encourage you to do the best you can. But you should be trying to make the best film you can, not trying to "win a prize".

That's why I personally like having the users vote. In my opinion it goes hand in hand with the personal feedback each film receives. Yes, there are some who may not vote impartially, and that is a shame. Because of that we are continually looking at ways to improve the system to ensure everyone gets a fair shake, but all in all I think the cream has risen to the top time and again. Perhaps you think the top three should have shaken out a little differently, but I would venture to guess that most people agree with the top three, if not than certainly would with the top five or so.

We will continue to tweak the system to improve it and are always open to ideas/suggesstions that might improve it. This was not to say no to panels/jury's, but to explain why, in my opinion, we haven't done so up to this point.

Good luck on Time Fest! :thumbsup:I think because of the fabulous prizes you almost have to have someone impartial judging the movies.

Let me just say this. There was definitely some promoting going on for certain entries last Fest. I won't go into details but I think you are aware of the situation. Why not eliminate any chance of that and have an impartial jury?

it just seems that the time has come for a change. I agree that the real prize should be completing a movie but we all know that the big prizes draw out different crowds.

Allowing the users to vote is really not fair in some instances. If I have a DVX crew of 15 and we all vote for my entry... definite advantage. :thumbsup:
If I'm a long time member and have a lot of friends on the board... definite advantage. It might not always work out that way but I'm sure it does from time to time.

Why not get rid of that scenario entirely?

Just a thought. Thanks for listening.

Mike

[Kholi]

What promoting?

[Jason Ramsey]

"Panel" voting is something to discuss in the future. I will say that there will always be some kind of user vote that helps to determine the winners in the regular DVXFests... But, that's not to say that sometime (maybe soon) down the road that we won't have a panel of a few non-affiliated, industry professionals who view, vote and respond to the top x (10, 15, whatever) amount of films picked by the users. The "finalists"... And, maybe that could lead to other things for the users.

Anyways, with the current changes we are talking about implementing, winners are more decided by "averages" if you will, and it will take an awfully large crew to have any notable impact on the averages. And, even then the impact isn't that great. Beyond that, there are other things behind the scenes that we can do with extra data and such that will allow us to more easily identify shenanigans and deal with them accordingly. We will have much more information that we can use this time around to keep an eye on voting trends and look for discrepancies. Some of it ain't for public consumption. Fun is still the key word, but we recognize that with the fests growing in many ways like they have been over the past year, sometimes it can bring out the worst in folks.

It's a shame that some people act one way out in front of people, but once they get in the ballot box, their personalities change entirely. But, by and large (as Barry says) the creme mostly rises to the top.

And, if I ever get to the point that I'm utterly frustrated with conduct of members/voters, I'll just go back to us giving out t-shirts or something. Don't bite the hand that feeds you, in otherwords.

I will be very closely watching, as will a few other key folks, the voting trends this fest as we incorporate this first round of changes to the voting process. Some things are in the works for future fests, but it can't all happen overnight. There has been a lot going on behind the scenes over the last months.

Key is the fest is for the users. I don't want prizes, or the voting process or anything to discourage folks from watching as many films as they can and giving some kind of feedback to as many as they can. For those of us who can't take the time to get off our rears and actually make a film for the fest, at least we can take the time to respect those who did take that leap and respond to their work that they put out on the line for us to chop up.

Later,
Jason

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

It's a shame that some people act one way out in front of people, but once they get in the ballot box, their personalities change entirely. But, by and large (as Barry says) the creme mostly rises to the top.

And, if I ever get to the point that I'm utterly frustrated with conduct of members/voters, I'll just go back to us giving out t-shirts or something. Don't bite the hand that feeds you, in otherwords.

I agree completely. I was just talking to someone else about that via PM.

I'm all for the T-shirts! Then we'll see who is really in this for the experience. :beer:

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

What promoting?I may ruffle feathers but I won't rat on people. :lipsrseal

Needless to say, this is part of the reason why a change is in order and probably coming in one fashion or another.

Mike

[Jason Ramsey]

Let's not turn this into that kind of thread.

Suggestions on the voting process are welcome.

Later,
Jason

[Ted Arabian]

My one suggestion should go without saying but I'll say it...

"If you submit a film, you should watch and comment on each entry."

The comments and feedback are what are truly valuable to me.

Not only do I benefit from reading comments, I benefit from WRITING them. It is not always easy to articulate what you want to say. And just the process of having to identify and articulate your critique can be a learning experience.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Let's not turn this into that kind of thread.

Suggestions on the voting process are welcome.

Later,
JasonAgreed. That's why I didn't go any further.

[Zak Forsman]

I wanted to suggest a "Special Jury Prize" awarded by a panel comprised of past DVXFest winners, invited and selected by the powers that be who run DVXFest. this would be in addition to the regular voting (which is essentially the "Audience Award").

I also wanted to suggest that mods and other organizational members of dvxuser.com (effectively its employees) be taken out of the general audience voting and placed in a jury of their own to award a Special DVX Award -- to the film that best encompasses the spirit of the DVXUser community.

the reason I suggest these different classifactions is because for the filmmaker, there is a lot more prestige in laurels that read: "WINNER - AUDIENCE AWARD" or "WINNER - SPECIAL JURY PRIZE" than there is in writing "1st, 2nd or 3rd Place"

my 2¢. :)

[Kyle Stebbins]

dartboard?

practical AND fun.

[Shawn Philip Nelson]

My one suggestion should go without saying but I'll say it...

"If you submit a film, you should watch and comment on each entry."

The comments and feedback are what are truly valuable to me.

Not only do I benefit from reading comments, I benefit from WRITING them. It is not always easy to articulate what you want to say. And just the process of having to identify and articulate your critique can be a learning experience.

Exactly!! This is the first fest I've ever entered but I have participated in viewing/commenting/voting on quite a few fests, not only to help those films, but for my own edification to qualify what I did/didn't like.

[Ted Arabian]

Shawn, I loved seeing you posting on everyone's thread last fest. It was really great to have that additional input.

Great feedback, too!

[Zak Forsman]

also, glad to hear about the voting going with weighted averages, if that is the case. during lovefest, I was notified by two friends about some behind the scenes campaigning against certain top contenders -- as in, do not vote for "such and such". I can't imagine it had much relevance on the final outcome considering the results, but it's good to know that this kind of thing will be even less effective in fests to come. good stuff! :thumbsup:

[ZazaCast]

Being new to this group…and new to the DVX camera…and this being my first fest entry…and seeing the level of users…it’s safe to say the only reason I’m entering this is to actually MAKE a movie, start to finish. An exercise if you will. I know I don’t stand a snowballs chance in hell of winning anything (I won a raffle once, but only found out after the ticket expired) once I started reading some of the user threads.

Here we have people using advanced cameras like the RED, HVX & god knows what else, booking real movie sets, hiring professional actors, make-up people, prop masters, stunt men, DP’s, 35mm adapters, advanced VFX, composers, huge crews…the whole she-bang! Then there’s the DIY newbie’s (that would be me) using whatever they can scrape together to try to make something that resembles an actual film. To create and capture a moment in time that emulates the grand vision that resides in all of our imaginations….and to hope others can see it too.

I have to say, this group can be intimidating. There is SO much talent here. I’ve seen films of such quality and professionalism that I can only wish to someday achieve the same level of production…and I have thought about dropping out more than once. Then, my 14 year-old daughter (also my biggest fan) says, “Dad, stop reading those blogs, I love your idea, it’s a good one & I know you can do a great job making your film…I know I’ll like it…and I’m sure other people will too.”

After years of picking her up when she fell down, wiping away her tears, kissing endless boo-boo’s to make them better & sending her right back on her way, that 14 year-old angel did the same for me!

So here I go, a crew of one, determined to write, shoot, edit and score a simple 6 minute film. To ask family & friends to help out any way they can. Knowing that the real reward is in completing the task and not winning the prize…and if allowed to vote, I would never vote for myself, after all, when is an artist ever satisfied with their own work?

That being said, perhaps you should consider a few different ‘categories’ of entry for future fests to level the playing field…by skill level?...by camera type?...by age? …because after all, everyone likes a little free swag now and again!

Best of luck to all who enter...

[Jason Ramsey]

Great post Zaza...

In response to parts of it, I would only say, you never know what can happen. Your heart sounds to be in the right place and that's what matters. All I can say is I felt exactly the same way you did. I wimped out on two previous fests before finally getting off of my tale end and actually making something for the last fest. I spent 25 bucks, and it was just me on the technical end, and my two friends in front of the camera with a simple idea that we hoped we could execute cleanly. We never had any dreams of grandeur or anything like that. Just wanted to finish a film so we could say we finally made one. Well, the response was way more than I could have ever hoped it would be. Sometimes you just get lucky :)

Don't worry about big sets, and crews, and whatever everyone else is doing, man. You just focus on your little project and make it the best you can. You learn a lot and you take that experience with you to the next project.

About categories... We probably won't go that far, but as we have had quite a lot of prizes the last few fests, we have been able to offer other prize packages to folks beyond just the "top films". We had 4 or 5 other categories of prizes that went to folks who were not the top 3 finishers. One new award we did last time was for Best Newcomer. It was awarded to a first time festival participant who did not otherwise finish in the top 3. This is a trend you can expect to continue as long as we have to goods to give (even if it's just recognition) and hopefully become a more central part of the whole "awards" thing.

Anyways... Don't get overwhelmed man. It's just you and your story. You do your thing. Let everyone else do theirs. The chips will fall where they may, but your motivations for taking on the process (if genuine) will carry you far beyond this fest.

Later,
Jason

[Shawn Philip Nelson]

Great post Zaza!!

Jason, you blew me away with your film, I voted #1 for it, best acting ever in a DVXUser film.

[ninjaturtle414]

I'm not too sure how the voting was done in the past, I'm not eligible to vote (too much lurking and not enough posting).
But the idea of an average seems like a fine idea. I also like Zak's idea of a "special jury prize" being awarded by past winners.
Even though I can't vote, I'm still gonna watch and critique as many films as I can. Isn't that what it's all about? :)

[ZazaCast]

Jason...Shawn.... Thanks!
THIS is why I'm so glad to have found this group. Awesome people sharing ideas and information to better all.

You ROCK!
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/35446/1211511114.gif

[Simon Höfer]

I am still interested in how many people voted during the last fests :D

And I also think that it is a shame to vote for your own entry. But it seems that this is how the world works if money/prizes are involved.

I remember the VFX Challenge... zero votes for my entry :D Well, there were not so many votes anyway (I keep telling that to myself), but you get the point... i can take it ... :crybaby: ... :cheesy:

Edited to add: Great post Zasa and Jason (loved your film) :)

[sfoster]

I really have to comment in here. I think this festival is probably the best I have seen for beginners. I will be entering my first film in this festival, shot on a cell phone. I'm not doing it because I don't have the equipment, but because I like a good challenge, and I've never done it before. No my quality wont be that of my HVX, and definitely not that of the red, however, there is NO entry fee, yet they offer prizes. This isn't a festival about winning. It's a festival about helping each other to make the best possible film we can. I wouldn't even call it a competition, but a collaboration. It's probably the best film school a guy can have.

I never went to film school and I have learned a ton from this site. If I didn't learn it here, someone probably recommended a site, or a book where I could learn it from here. A year ago, I never dreamed I could be doing the quality work that I am doing now. Finally, DVXUSER is going to print a magazine!!! This will highlight our successes and failures. It will teach more, and it's all about US.

If you feel that you don't have the ability to make a film, the equipment, the know how, etc. Just get on a forum and ask for help. It's a small world, and people go the extra mile for projects that are actually going to get finished!

If I'm willing to drive up and down California to shoot, I'm sure that there are more like me out there. SO GO FOR IT. The only thing to whine about now is the fact that I just smashed my finger, and typing this was a "Pain" literally!

My 2 and a half cents!

[jeremytuttle]

Well said Shane.

And Simon, I agree that it would be a shame to vote for your own entry. I mean, let's not sell our souls for a piece of camera equipment. These fests are for fun/the challenge/experience, so why not vote for the short you think is best and not just your friends and if you're worried about hurting your friends feelings, better they hear criticism now then years later from a studio exec.

Now... if YOUR short really is that much better than the competition... well, fine vote for it:cheesy:.

I also like the Jury Award Idea... a moderator vote or something, would be cool.

[ConspiracyPenguin]

And I also think that it is a shame to vote for your own entry. But it seems that this is how the world works if money/prizes are involved...

Sad but true. I will never vote for my own entry (unless all the other ones really sucked. But with this group that is impossible) I actually vote for the ones I think had the best story, acting and directing etc... I realize that most of not all filmmakers here are better then me (and have better equipment) but that doesn't detur me from doing what I love: writing, acting, making films...

I just got back from Las Vegas because of a family emergency so I have been off the boards for a while. I get back and all of this has piled up. I am curious to hear about the new voting system.

[sfoster]

By the way, I didn't mean that it is just for beginners when I said that it's the best festival for beginners. I mean it's probably the most beginner friendly festival with professionals competing!

[Drew Ott]

I too would like some sort of "audience award".

I agree with Zak that it looks better than something like "3rd place".

[Dood]

OMG! I am a member of dvxuser.com for about 3 - 5 months (visiting it every day, every hour, and reading almost every post) and didn't want to post any comments because I'm a complete beginner (and I'm using the stupidest nickname because I thought this site is just like every other).
But, now I just have to write my first post. I know it is in the wrong topic, but I just want to thank sfoster (Shane?) because I decided to enter the TimeFest after reading that he'll shoot his film on a cell phone. I'm still not sure if I'll be able to shoot my film, but I'm doing my best to get it done.

And I just want to say that to me, the prize is not important at all. Having the film seen by dvxusers is the best we can get. So, thank you all for great encouragement and inspiration to people like me and to others.

[staticrevenger]

haha! cool dood!. cant wait to see what you come up with.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

I am still interested in how many people voted during the last fests :D

And I also think that it is a shame to vote for your own entry. But it seems that this is how the world works if money/prizes are involved.


Agreed. Can we get an estimation on how many votes were registered for the last Fest?

[Barry_Green]

Agreed, voting for your own film is ... well, it just seems kind of low class. You should vote for the very best film. If you're voting for your own film because you want to win a prize, that's selfish and anti-community.

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Barry, can we get a ballpark figure for the voting?

Thanks,

Mike

[Jason Ramsey]

873,063 :evil:

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

873,063 :evil:Is there a reason why you guys aren't answering this??

:huh:

100, 200, 500?

[Jason Ramsey]

ok.... ballpark.... between 1-100,000

A couple hundred

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

ok.... ballpark.... between 1-100,000

A couple hundred

Couple hundred! Cool. More than I thought actually. Probably only going to get larger as time goes by. :thumbsup:

Thanks for the answer, Jason.

Cheers,

Mike

[Gohanto]

The way of voting we have currently is much better than my school's "audience award". Extremely minimal advertisement and the site was designed such that you could refresh the page and vote unlimited number of times. 11 films, 200 showed up to the awards, and the winner had votes in the thousands...

The only format I really think has the potential to be unfair is where you give every film a 1-5 rating. That was part of my school's system and it really is challenging to give that kind of rating to every film and be equally fair on every film.

Personally I'm a big fan of the top 3 voting, but I can understand why others might not like it.

[jasonthewho]

I would honestly prefer that voting for yourself was against the rules. Why should ethical people be at a disadvantage to the unethical ones? Of course, people will always find a way to cheat at any system created. Maybe I'm just being cynical.

[Zim]

If a person was running for a government office should they vote for the other guy?

If your in a movie that is up for movie of the year do you vote for the other movie?

What about a person who works on a film with other people. They all work hard to make a good fest film and maybe win. So you should vote for something else?

I think it is a personal choice and nothing really wrong with it. I didn't vote for mine. it wasn't even close to some of the other films. Had I made some of the other films I might have voted for it. Why vote against your actors or crew if they deserve it?