Concert shutter angle?

[timlitton]

I'm filming a 2 camera shoot at a rock concert and was wondering if it makes sense to increase my shutter angle? Would it end up blurry in low light and blown out in high or would it give me an extra boost in light?

Opinions?

[snpx]

it will be more blurry. the time light hits the ccd is longer, when you increase
your shutter. it does not only in lowlight. you can get/test it with daylight, too.
maybe you have to switch nd to 1/64, the camera will tell you.
all in all you will get a boost of light sensitivity.

[Tim Joy]

Those are the hardest things to shoot with digital, where there's a huge contrast. You'll have areas of total blowout, (usually the singer's face, if they have a spotlight) right next to total black (his guitar).

The light levels might dictate your shutter but it also depends if you'll be filming from 2 feet or 50 feet. if you CAN use a faster shutter, it seems it's more of a style thing. if it were me, I'd probably go as low shutter angle as possible for a high-energy lots-of-movement-type group, and a high shutter angle for a low energy group.

can you have them boost up the overall light levels, especially any "fill" lights? If so, it will be 100 times better.

[ProfessorU]

Yes, the best way to work with low light is to add more light. :) Sometimes just adding a few lights on set can be enough to make a big difference, since you don't have to use high-wattage lights over a large throwing distance.

If it's in a club setting, I would suggest getting a few flood lights you can set on the ground and throw on the wall behind the talent. Two colored 100w bulbs can make a big difference and keep the background from going muddy gray-black, keep the difference between faces and background to within a few stops, and silhouette the band when their lights are off, or too dim to really help the camera.

I would try first setting the camera on manual and seeing what kind of overall level you're getting. If it's dark, you'll probably have the iris open, and the shutter somewhere between 180 and 350 degrees. After that, to get more sensitivity you'll have to add gain.

In general, manual settings will look better than auto settings. Use the zebras to help you expose properly.

[bill totolo]

You can coordinate with the LD and have them ND their spots. This will lower the overall exposure lat. of what's on stage for you.

[USLatin]

I have used 1/43rd on video camera mode which I forget the equivalent for in angles... but it is very decent and gives you a nice amount of light... I consider it a nice trade off... and it was a suggestion from other users who also find it ok... now if the band members do an Axl Rose and run like maniacs from side to side then you might see the blur it adds, if they start head banging you might see it in the hair and so on... but it is limited and you might find it works anyway... ? Anyway, if it were more stationary talent then I doubt you'll have any problem at all with it... perhaps do some tests before they come on? but watch them on a big screen of course... and maybe you can have one at 1/60th and the other at 1/43rd... Try to get close so you can go wider if it works and that will give you a tad more...

and obviously, like ProfU mentioned, I would make sure all their lights are on, perhaps take off the color filters on a few of them, or most of them and that will give you a lot more light... don't know if you have budget to add these to but maybe just rent two 2k's and set then on full flood from the ceiling and if it is a small stage and that should help a ton...

[timlitton]

Than you for all of your suggestions. It's helped to hear them.

The venue is on the large side. We will have one camera roaming in front of the stage, one about 120ft back and possibly a wide safety shot on a unmanned 3rd in the back center (it's also a different model of camera). I filmed this concert last year and the light was pretty good - when it was on.

I'm really more worried about the manned camera in back as he'll be zooming in a decent distance.

[USLatin]

Are the two main ones HVX's?

[timlitton]

Yes, USLatin, the two mains are HVX's.

The third is a consumer Sony HD camcorder the promoter/organizer has and we might use just because it's available. It records to tape - but I'm just shooting and dumping the footage to his hard drives so I won't have to worry about digitizing it or matching it to the HVX's in post.

Besides, it'll make him appreciate the picture of the Panny's.

By the way, how did you feel your shoot turned out using the 1/43 (200 degrees I think?)? Was it a concert with motion or stationary musicians? I'll be filming 6 bands and they tend to move about...

What did you do for white balance? I've heard some say you can detract from the light show by just straight balancing.

[USLatin]

For WB I would probably balance to the "white" lights, the main ones that just expose the stage, that's if there will be such lights, sometimes there is color 100% of the time... but you can't go wrong selecting the standard settings... it all depends on the lights... if they are visibly green definitely balance that stuff out... if you balance to the key lights you put yourself in the middle and it will be possible for you to move it whichever way you want in post with minimal correction

I would for sure test the 1/43 like I suggested... I've used it in quite stationary subjects, but you can for sure push it a bit... at least 1/50th I'd guess with no visible blurr to the consumer... but check out the 43rd... it is definitely close the the limit

BTW, good idea about using his camera, hey... don't white balance that one heheh... :thumbsup:
nah... you might regret that heheh

[William_Robinette]

When I shoot I have been using the preset 3200k setting and have had great results. I haven't had to do anything to the color balance in post (which saves a lot of rendering time for a long set!).

I would get in there at load in, shoot some stuff during rehearsal and then playback on a laptop or something before the show. My first HVX concert ended up suffering from having the chroma level too high and the intensely colored gel lights would blow out really weirdly if the beam was traveling through fog or something similar.

Basically, if you can get in there and test it would be the best way to make sure that when it counts, it will come out well.

I personally would add 6dB of gain before going down from a 1/48th to a 1/24th shutter, but that is just me.

[USLatin]

I agree with all that William said but the gain... in fact I strongly disagree... I can see 3dB id it is for 480p output, but 6dB is a bit much for me... though William I totaly understand that this is also a matter of taste

About the 3200k it will 85% likely give you excellent results, likey their lights will be around 3200k with gels, so setting it at 3200k will give you the look that the venue intended for and what your eyes will adjust to see... also 3200k and 5600k are used so much that we are used to the representation of colors at that setting making it look pro... You can test the shutter before hand though... why not do that.

I think the point that Willam made about the Chroma sounds dead on... I woudna''t have thought of that but it makes perfect sense.

But like William said, your absolute best bet is to test and watch it on the best screen you can watch it on... then like William also said you'll likely save yourself some time off post

[seunosewa]

You should leave the shutter wide open in low light conditions especially.

[kabtv]

just one thing...don't forget to ask if there is some follow spots.
They are often at 5000K-5600K. Better to keep an eye on them...!!!

[USLatin]

yes! the spot lights are your key, good point