Very Disappointing NAB 2008

[Satya]

Folks

I don't usually post but do read somewhat.

NAB 2008 was the most disappointing - in terms of launches of new products as well as new technology.

I visited the Panasonic stall a few times and found that the HMC 150 & HPX 170 had more or less identical bodies. One touting AVCHD Pro quality and another DVCPro HD quality. I also visited the Sony (very briefly) and Canon (more detailed). Passed over the JVC stall.

Big Big question - bird in hand or two in a bush?

Come on folks, Panasonic has let us down very very badly - neither proof of what they will deliver some six months later nor a reduction in P2 prices nor a "consumer" pricing for a HMC-150 - nor what a 21Mbps-peak-24Mbps will bring to us - will I spend more on the computing power for decoding AVCHD Pro or should I stick to Infra-frame codecs?

Hey! I don't have the time in analyzing all the "tapeless" (at P2's costing $900 per 16GB or SDHC costing $320 per 16GB) vs "tape" discussions. I have only solution - shop around for the cheapest HD camcorder say Canon XH-A1 and then add IoHD or Multibridge Eclipse or Motu's V3HD to complete the import.

I like being "Fully-Digital-From-Start_To_Finish" but at a cost and at some confidence level given Sony's and Canon's aversion to AVCHD at Prosumer or Professional levels.

I don't want to be blinded by this forum - just take the best out of it.

Thanks
Satya

[Jim Brennan]

I understand that that you may not have seen much new that excited you from Panny or Canon (I for one am glad Panny made the effort to improve the HVX, and I'm not sure that it matters that the 150 and 170 have similar style bodies, they are different cameras), but I saw some kick-ass stuff at N.A.B.

1) RedRock Mattbox and Follow Focus
2) Tube style gels for fluoros
3) RedRay (way more excited about that than the Epic)
4) More choices in both LED and Fluoro fixtures
5) A reasonably priced mini dolly system for table-top or tripod (can't remember the name at the moment)

And that's just off the top of my head....

[FatDaddy]

I think we will have to wait and see on the Pany 150 and 170. I think we will turn out to be surprised at how good they will be. Seems to me Pany is making them the next DVX and HVX, so yes, no big outside change but some nice improvements that will turn out to make a difference (more for the DVX version). On the higher end side the HPX-500 is really a good camera at a great price and of course you can keep going higher end and more expensive.

I have a Canon XH-A1 and am happy with it. Will make a switch when the 170 comes out or wait for Scarlet (that could still be a while).

I was really impressed by Final Cut Server.

[Satya]

Jim

I could probably agree with you if I followed your directions.

FatDaddy

I don't agree with you - you have the XH-A1 but this thought/thread was for people waiting for a pro-consumer HD camcorder with either P2/SDHC. I think this whole discussion is going to sea ...

Panny can or may never take this line into "affordable" solid state camcorders at a price-value which maybe Canon/Sony can give us.

My $0.02 thought,

[Jim Brennan]

For me, NAB is about a lot more than cameras.

[mcgeedigital]

For me, NAB is about a lot more than cameras.

Exactly, I saw a LOT of cool hardware AND software that will help my business and help my work flow.

[TedRR]

NAB 2008 was the most disappointing - in terms of launches of new products as well as new technology. Satya

Satya, with all due respect, I wandered booth by booth over 3 days. I saw all kinds of new advancements in all sorts of areas.
One of the biggest areas of growth was in video for the web. I found all sorts of new stuff geard for this.
Since I've just changed my business plan in this direction, I was thrilled to see so many new solutions for all the needs I now have.

As for Camera advancements, you might get by saying that there were no "Major Breakthroughs". But I consider the improvements to the sub 10k cameras as great news.

I guess our impression of how good NAB was depends on what we were looking for. :)

[Luis Caffesse]

One of the biggest areas of growth was in video for the web. I found all sorts of new stuff geard for this.

Not to hijack this thread - but what did you see particularly that you found interesting in that regard?

Just curious because I wasn't there myself, and video for web has been a big part of my business in the past year (and shows no sign of slowing down this year).

[snowleopard]

Since I've just changed my business plan in this direction, I was thrilled to see so many new solutions for all the needs I now have.

I'm curious too. I have been doing more of this work as well, and it seems more and more inevitable that this is about to explode and be the mainstream.

[ChipG]

Folks

I don't usually post but do read somewhat.

NAB 2008 was the most disappointing - in terms of launches of new products as well as new technology.

I visited the Panasonic stall a few times and found that the HMC 150 & HPX 170 had more or less identical bodies. One touting AVCHD Pro quality and another DVCPro HD quality. I also visited the Sony (very briefly) and Canon (more detailed). Passed over the JVC stall.

Big Big question - bird in hand or two in a bush?

Come on folks, Panasonic has let us down very very badly - neither proof of what they will deliver some six months later nor a reduction in P2 prices nor a "consumer" pricing for a HMC-150 - nor what a 21Mbps-peak-24Mbps will bring to us - will I spend more on the computing power for decoding AVCHD Pro or should I stick to Infra-frame codecs?

Hey! I don't have the time in analyzing all the "tapeless" (at P2's costing $900 per 16GB or SDHC costing $320 per 16GB) vs "tape" discussions. I have only solution - shop around for the cheapest HD camcorder say Canon XH-A1 and then add IoHD or Multibridge Eclipse or Motu's V3HD to complete the import.

I like being "Fully-Digital-From-Start_To_Finish" but at a cost and at some confidence level given Sony's and Canon's aversion to AVCHD at Prosumer or Professional levels.

I don't want to be blinded by this forum - just take the best out of it.

Thanks
Satya

I'm happy with my 3 year old hvx 200 but Panasonic has been caught sleeping at the wheel and have totally been blind sided... I wonder how long it wil take for them to catch up?

[Barry_Green]

Where'd you get a 3-year-old HVX200? Seeing as they only really were released in quantity two years ago, and I have #32 in the world (got it in December just 2.25 years ago)...

:engel017:

[ChipG]

Where'd you get a 3-year-old HVX200? Seeing as they only really were released in quantity two years ago, and I have #32 in the world (got it in December just 2.25 years ago)...

:engel017:

Err, ummmm.... Sorry B.G. typo, my fault 2+ years old and my serial number is #55...Actualy it is 00055...

FYI Best purchase I ever made :)

[FatDaddy]

FatDaddy

I don't agree with you - you have the XH-A1 but this thought/thread was for people waiting for a pro-consumer HD camcorder with either P2/SDHC. I think this whole discussion is going to sea ...

Panny can or may never take this line into "affordable" solid state camcorders at a price-value which maybe Canon/Sony can give us.

My $0.02 thought,

My point was Pany tweaked their models in the sub 6k market and dropped the HPX 500 into the sub 10k w/o glass with rebates (how long, who knows?). I don't think in the next six months we will be hearing about "something new" from Pany. I am fine with the tweaks and think they will sustain Pany because of P2 and the Pany look. Will wait and see on the AVCHD - quality seems good but everyone is worried about processing power.

No new cameras under 4k, so yes I hear where you are coming from, but I don't think they are going there...

Let me know what cameras Sony and Canon have at the price point you are considering. I think the 150 will be a great camera. Spent 5 years with the DVX and would still get one if I was shooting small form SD based projects.

[Nik Manning]

Wasn't at NAB, but this just sounds like his opinion. I don't know how the unveiling of a $3000 camera that shoots 3K could be disappointing. RED had some very big breakthrough announcements.Over all over 8 new cams were revealed or displayed.

[FatDaddy]

Crap - I forgot about Scarlet! Stoked about that one, but vapor ware for a while...

[Jim Brennan]

I don't think there's any doubt they will deliver though.

[Zander]

I was really impressed by Final Cut Server.

Final Cut Server is a year old. :tongue:

[mcgeedigital]

Final Cut Server is a year old. :tongue:

The ANNOUNCEMENT of it was a year old. It is now shipping.

I agree w/fatdaddy, it is a great digital asset management tool.

[Barry_Green]

Err, ummmm.... Sorry B.G. typo, my fault 2+ years old and my serial number is #55...Actualy it is 00055...

All in good fun, Chip. I was just razzin' ya because I keep hearing people say "the HVX is three years old, they haven't updated it FOREVER", etc. And it just strikes me that we have an incredible "internet" phenomenon going on where it seems like products can actually be obsolete before they're even DELIVERED! The HVX200 ANNOUNCEMENT was three years ago, yes, but the delivery didn't happen for almost 9 months, so as an actual product it's barely over two years old. Now it's somehow this old granddad of a camera. It's actually younger than the XLH1; the XLH1 shipped at least a month sooner than the HVX did -- and the XLH1 just announced a minor freshening a couple of weeks ago.

I can't wait to see when people start speculating about what "the next Scarlet" will have, when the first one is a year and a half away from even being born! :thumbsup:

[ChipG]

All in good fun, Chip. I was just razzin' ya because I keep hearing people say "the HVX is three years old, they haven't updated it FOREVER", etc. And it just strikes me that we have an incredible "internet" phenomenon going on where it seems like products can actually be obsolete before they're even DELIVERED! The HVX200 ANNOUNCEMENT was three years ago, yes, but the delivery didn't happen for almost 9 months, so as an actual product it's barely over two years old. Now it's somehow this old granddad of a camera. It's actually younger than the XLH1; the XLH1 shipped at least a month sooner than the HVX did -- and the XLH1 just announced a minor freshening a couple of weeks ago.

I can't wait to see when people start speculating about what "the next Scarlet" will have, when the first one is a year and a half away from even being born! :thumbsup:

Hey B.G., no worries :) You keep us on our toes...

[Satya]

Exactly FatDaddy - processing power for the AVCPRo HD - and a Scarlett next year. But a comparative look at the pricing of the new models is making me go bonkers. I was also wondering what Sony/Canon would do to counter the MHC 150 - they probably will up their bit rates as well and launch consumer cameras with a reduced feature set and costing half the price. Sony's CMOS sensors shouldn't be disregarded - they are very advanced and generate exceptionally brilliant color (under good lighting).

After reading Barry's posts on both the HVX 200A and the HPX 170 - I think I'll just wait until the 170 is released and then make a call.

[TedRR]

Not to hijack this thread - but what did you see particularly that you found interesting in that regard?

Just curious because I wasn't there myself, and video for web has been a big part of my business in the past year (and shows no sign of slowing down this year).

You aren't hijacking this thread. :) It just turned to camera chat.
I had to turn down a $32,000 live video for the web job because it got moved to the week of NAB 3 days before I was to leave for Vegas. :embarasse

I recently got NewTek's TriCaster, intercom for 7 people, 2,000' of CAT 5 cable, another HVX 200 and other gear for this gig. But I have no fear that this new direction will pay for itself in no time.

Along with a new version of TriCaster with 6 camera SDI inputs, I saw a great new "Blue Box" that can feed the highest quality QT, WMV, Flash and REAL feeds at the same time. All from a single BNC connection.
I also saw a lot of CDN (Content Delivery Network) companies emerging which will keep prices competitive.
I also saw another guy who does live video for the web who actually had his own booth. Not too many production companies have their own booth. I thought that made quite a statement about the viability of this service.

Yeh, as soon as I began showing my clients what we can now do the response was so overwhelming that I had to stop telling people.
If I sound excited about this it's because I AM! It's nice to have more work than I can handle after watching business slow down doing what I had been doing sucsessfully the last 12 years.

Feel free to e-mail me if you are as excited about this new production potential as I am. ted@editbay.tv I love discussing this with others who are doing this.
Well, it's not really new, it's just gotten more affordable for people like us and the demand is just now exploding.
Now I'll likely be adding more HVX 200's. I like recording an ISO to the tape drive.

[ChipG]

Ummm... Ted, how about a referal :):):)

[Joseph Stunzi]

I went to NAB for my first time this year and loved it! Being a young filmmaker, I haven't had the opportunities to be exposed to a lot of the "higher end" technology. One observation that Brian Valente told me was that everyone has a jib. Which almost seems to be true, they're everywhere. Lots and lots of prompters as well. I thought NAB was awesome. I have lots of things that if I had a million dollars, I would now buy. I got to play with cmotion, the P&S Skater Dolly, lots of different flouro and LED lights. Anyway I had a blast.

My only down moment was when I went to the Panasonic booth's reception and asked if someone could introduce me to Barry Green, the lady just looked at me, gave me this unwelcoming feeling, and told me that he was one of their consultants. Sucks for you Barry, I even brought you a t-shirt :(

No but really NAB was awesome. I'm excited about all the new releases. In regards to cameras, you can play with the specs, the footage, the feel, and everything anywhere anytime. You're not going to fly a RED camera on a Steadicam Flyer LE anytime anywhere.

[Barry_Green]

JStunzi, I saw you in line at the Red booth. I was in the first screening, and I saw you come in lookin' all amped-up that you were in so early at like 8:50 a.m. on the first day, and I noticed your nametag and thought "hey, there's a familiar name" but I was talking to Graeme Nattress at the time...

[FatDaddy]

...and if you were talking to Jarred, you wouldn't notice anybody around you - except Jarred's chin...

[FatDaddy]

Jarred's chin and what kind of lighting they use in the convention center