RED NAB NEWS THREAD: Scarlet pics are up

[Jockomo]

www.red.com

http://www.red.com/nab/scarlet

* NEW 2/3" MYSTERIUM X SENSOR
* 1-120 FPS (180FPS BURST)
* UP TO 100 MB/SEC REDCODE RAW AND RGB RECORDING TO DUAL COMPACT FLASH
* 4.8" LCD
* 8X T2.8 RED ZOOM LENS
* FULL AUTO OR FULL MANUAL SHOOTING MODES
* HDMI and HD-SDI
* FIREWIRE 800 and USB2
* STILL MODE
* COMPATIBLE WITH MANY RED ONE ACCESSORIES
* WI-FI CONTROL

[Drcoffee]

fresh , web is running a little slow

[Zander]

:predicts rickroll:

[NoahK]

Price?

-Noah

[PaPa]

2/3 inch sensor? boo, was hoping to get rid of using 35mm adapters! :(

[Luis Caffesse]

Price?

-Noah

Not sure if a solid price has been announced yet - but Jannard had said "Less than $10K for sure"

[Kholi]

What kinda mount?

I'm very happy to stand corrected.

[Drcoffee]

whats the 5k epic?

[cordvision]

could somebody post the pics in this forum because the red website is so slow...

[thekreative]

didn't they say it would be ready to roll?

[Digigenic]

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m197/Digigenic/redscreencapinfoNAB1.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m197/Digigenic/ScarletscreencapinfoNAB1.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m197/Digigenic/EpicscreencapinfoNAB1.jpg

[PaPa]

not loadin for me either.

[PaPa]

very interesting. Looks like an old 8mm camera.

and yeah, whats this 5k epic thing?

[Kholi]

Anyone see the EARLY 2009 tag?

You gotta be kiddin' me. That's really soon for this.

[Kegan]

Well, it certainly doesn't look like anything I thought it'd be. That huge LCD sounds pretty awesome, as does the rest of the specs. I want to hear more about this sensor. That site is so slow its ridiculous. By the way, did I miss something and is nobody mentioning the Epic? Was that foreseen? What's that all about?!

-Kegan

[Luis Caffesse]

Well... that was fun.

So...Lets all meet back here in a year when it's released?
:)

[poweredbyjolt]

so stoked

[NoahK]

Mirrored:

http://www.callboxlive.com/resources/

-Noah

[Kholi]

Someone please find out what the mount is. B4 or PL. PLEASE.

I can't see the guys over there tryin' to build a B4 mount. I hope it's PL born and universal backed.

[Pettersen]

5K EPIC


SPECIFICATIONS:

* FULL FRAME S35MM NEW MYSTERIUM X SENSOR
* 1-100 FPS
* UP TO 100 MB/SEC. REDCODE RAW AND RGB RECORDING TO REDFLASH
* FULL SIZE DUAL LINK HD-SDI, 2-XLR AUDIO INPUTS AND HDMI
* WI-FI CONTROL
* FIREWIRE 800 and USB2
* 6 POUND FULLY MACHINED ALUMINUM BODY WITH HYBRID STAINLESS PL MOUNT
* COMPATIBLE WITH MOST RED ONE ACCESSORIES
* FULLY UPGRADABLE SENSOR, BODY, BOARDS AND MOUNT.

SPECIFICATIONS, DELIVERY DATES AND DESIGN ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE... COUNT ON IT.

[Luis Caffesse]

So it says "UP TO 100 MB/SEC REDCODE RAW AND RGB RECORDING TO DUAL COMPACT FLASH"

Does that mean any ol' Compact Flash cards - or are these going to be RED flash cards?

[Luis Caffesse]

Someone please find out what the mount is. B4 or PL. PLEASE.

I can't see the guys over there tryin' to build a B4 mount. I hope it's PL born and universal backed.

You're talking about the 5K epic, right?
The scarlet looks like it has a built in lens.

[rawfa]

Price?!?!

[Kholi]

Probably proprietary 8GB Flash cards. I can't see how they're gonna get 120FPS to CF cards, I'm assuming that's where the RED DRIVE comes in as a universal item between all cameras.

P.S. Someone PLEASE REPORT ABOUT THE LENS MOUNT!

[whachusay]

So is the RED Ray a 4k/5k player?



Is the Epic about to be the top dog at RED or is the RED One still holding that spot?

[cordvision]

I think it is a fixed zoom lense...

[Kholi]

You're talking about the 5K epic, right?
The scarlet looks like it has a built in lens.

It does look like it's fixed lens but I can't see why they would spend the extra money to make it a fixed lens camera when they already KNOW the community wants an interchangeable lens.

That just doesn't seem like RED tactics.

[Luis Caffesse]

Considering the site says you can trade in a RED One body for credit towards an epic when the epic is released - I'm assuming the Epic is top dog.
Also - it's 5K, topping the RED One is res, it seems.

[cordvision]

wow, did you see. You can turn in any red body to get 17500 USD credit towards the Epic. How do they do that?

[Postmaster]

WOW! My Scarlet thread was closed down whitin 4 minutes. I guess thats a new record :D

Frank

[Kholi]

Actually, it might be a fixed lens if they stick with this full auto full manual modes thing.

It'll have to be a fixed lens or a B4 mount/digital mount to pull that off. Dammit.

[Luis Caffesse]

It does look like it's fixed lens but I can't see why they would spend the extra money to make it a fixed lens camera when they already KNOW the community wants an interchangeable lens.

That just doesn't seem like RED tactics.

No it doesn't - in fact it seems like the opposite of RED tactics.
BUT... they do have the Epic and Red One to 'protect' I guess.

Seems kind of like the exact opposite of what they set out to do in the first place.
But still looks like it could be a hell of a camera when it comes out.

[bgundu]

It looks like a blu-ray recorder.



So is the RED Ray a 4k/5k player?

[Sumfun]

I wonder what's new about the Mysterium X sensors? Maybe improved rolling shutter effects?

[Fliques Osman]

whats the price for scarlet and epic???

[Luis Caffesse]

I wonder what's new about the Mysterium X sensors? Maybe improved rolling shutter effects?

I'm not sure that anything is 'improved' - but those are 'new' sensors (or will be once they come out), in so far as they didin't have a 2/3 inch version of the Mysterium.
That could be all they mean.

[Sumfun]

No it doesn't - in fact it seems like the opposite of RED tactics.
BUT... they do have the Epic and Red One to 'protect' I guess.

Seems kind of like the exact opposite of what they set out to do in the first place.
But still looks like it could be a hell of a camera when it comes out.

For a palmcorder, I would prefer fixed lens. Besides, they offer interchangeable lenses for the Red One and Epic. I think it was a good call.

[Kholi]

No it doesn't - in fact it seems like the opposite of RED tactics.
BUT... they do have the Epic and Red One to 'protect' I guess.

Seems kind of like the exact opposite of what they set out to do in the first place.
But still looks like it could be a hell of a camera when it comes out.

You're absolutely right. And I'm absolutely saddened that it's probably the truth of Scarlet: to be a fixed lens camera.

However, I'll get over that really soon. It's still 2/3" And still gonna come in under the price of a lot in it's class.

STILL modular as all get out and STILL RED flavored. We'll have to see how it progresses over the next few months but I'm excited.

Did want to move away from shooting with 35mm Adapters as my personal option but with the Letus Ultimate it won't be bad.

[Luis Caffesse]

whats the price for scarlet and epic???

I think we'll have to wait to hear from someone at the show.
That is if the crowd hasn't riioted and trampled the RED booth by now.

[ronik15]

here's what I found on camcorderinfo.com :

Today at NAB, Red Digital Cinema showcased the long-awaited Scarlet, a compact model capable of shooting 3K video for under $3,000.

[Kholi]

Camcorderinfo.com is a joke. 3k? Yeah right.

[sean90291]

Red.com fine print says Red One camera bodies will be redeemable for $17,500 towards an Epic 5K! Very interesting.

Is Red One already obsolete? Even if it is, it sounds like a great deal...but until we know the Epic 5K price...

[davide]

I'm a little dissappointed that it's a fixed lens, but that thing still looks awesome. Cramming 3k into a 2/3 chip though has got to make for a pretty dense pixel count. Is that about the same density as the HV20?

davide

[Denis Haineault]

if it is under $3000...I'm in without hesitation. Although I doubt that's accurate.

[Luis Caffesse]

Did want to move away from shooting with 35mm Adapters as my personal option but with the Letus Ultimate it won't be bad.

This is probably a topic for another thread - but with a Letus Ultimate and Scarlet - or Letus Ultimate, Relay lens and HPX500 I still don't see why you wouldn't just bite the bullet and jump to a RED One.

But that's just me.

And - who knows - maybe the fixed lens on Scarlet was done to keep the price down?
I mean, sure they could have released a body only design for under 10K, but that would just make the overall package more expensive. I guess this is like the Scarlet is to the RED One what the HVX is to the Varicam.

Still suprising though.
I never expected RED to come out with so many cameras.
It's difficult to do that AND try to keep to their original 'mission.'

[Luis Caffesse]

Is Red One already obsolete?

HA
:)

[Kholi]

Red.com fine print says Red One camera bodies will be redeemable for $17,500 towards an Epic 5K! Very interesting.

Is Red One already obsolete? Even if it is, it sounds like a great deal...but until we know the Epic 5K price...

There's no-way RED ONE could be obsolete. I'll bet EPIC is gonna be priced at a point where many RED ONE owners dare not tread, and offer something crazy like STEREOSCOPIC (dreaming here) which will set the two cameras even further apart. Making EPIC the choice for big dogs, RED ONE the choice for the "middle class" and Scarlet the choice for us poor folk.

To do otherwise is to sink your own ship.

[Matthew R. Rodwell]

http://redmodz.com/component/content/article/55-nab-2008/84-3k-scarlet

RedModz said $3,000 as well

[Luis Caffesse]

My God... if it's really $3K I'm picking up a few of these things.
:)

Realistically - with a 3K single sensor what are we looking at in terms of final resolution?
Would it be fair to say 2K?
(assuming it's a bayer filter)

[Kholi]

This is probably a topic for another thread - but with a Letus Ultimate and Scarlet - or Letus Ultimate, Relay lens and HPX500 I still don't see why you wouldn't just bite the bullet and jump to a RED One.

But that's just me.

And - who knows - maybe the fixed lens on Scarlet was done to keep the price down?
I mean, sure they could have released a body only design for under 10K, but that would just make the overall package more expensive. I guess this is like the Scarlet is to the RED One what the HVX is to the Varicam.

Still suprising though.
I never expected RED to come out with so many cameras.
It's difficult to do that AND try to keep to their original 'mission.'

It totally is another topic for another thread, but minor chime in: RED ONE costs 25k at the very least to shoot with. HPX500 w/35mm Adapter package comes in at 18k and you're ready to go.

Scarlet (if it's below 10k) beats the HPX500 in many ways including a fixed lens so when you do go 35mm adapter you're ready for any shooting situation.

RED ONE's expense is an entirely new Tax Bracket.

On about the releases, I'm pleasantly surprised. I played the skeptic so I wouldn't be disappointed.

[bgundu]

I can see Epic being used for large background plates for FX work.

[Joshua Provost]

Not disappointed at Scarlet at all. 2/3" sensor is equiv to 16mm film. Love the fixed lens, it's a great compromise to get the advantages of point and shoot and the advantages of RAW recording. The RED lenses are spectacular and you can be sure this fixed lens will be no different. I figured Scarlet would be 16mm size and 2K, they delivered 3k (which on a bayer sensor is perfect size for a 2K/HD finish.

[sean90291]

There's no-way RED ONE could be obsolete. I'll bet EPIC is gonna be priced at a point where many RED ONE owners dare not tread, and offer something crazy like STEREOSCOPIC (dreaming here) which will set the two cameras even further apart. Making EPIC the choice for big dogs, RED ONE the choice for the "middle class" and Scarlet the choice for us poor folk.

To do otherwise is to sink your own ship.

Epic's price announced as $40K.

[Kholi]

My God... if it's really $3K I'm picking up a few of these things.
:)

Realistically - with a 3K single sensor what are we looking at in terms of final resolution?
Would it be fair to say 2K?
(assuming it's a bayer filter)

Depends. Also remember that RED ONE shoots a host of different 2k and 3k modes. 2:1, 16:9, Anamorphic. I bet you get the full 3k out of it or else there may be no real reason to tout that it's 3K RAW, y'know?

You'll probably also have the option to shoot 2k in camera.

If this thing is 3,000.00 then something is terribly wrong. I want to see this announcement come straight from the horses mouth.

Although if they did that, then that would allow people to purchase every single accessory that they come out with. In the end, once you build this sucker up with the Cage and batteries, Mattebox, etc, it should be the size of an HVX.

[LuckyStudio 13]

the Red Scarlet would be for the hv20 trv900 crowd. Serious indie filmmaker can cross that off their list.

The Epic is going to be the top dog over the Red One but its going to be more expensive than $17,500 and probably ill use global CMOS or CCD to eliminate the rolling shutter problem.

Question is ... what are they gonna do with those trade-in RED ONE ?? a refurbished sales ???

I think it is kinda risky to introduce 2 new cams while the Red ONe is still not stabilized. 5k ?? that will what, fit 2 half minute of thier 8 gig card ?? not to mention the comp power and workflow...

[Luis Caffesse]

Well damn Kholi -
If this $3K pricetag is true, now you're looking at 3K for the cam and 4.5K for the Ultimate.
:)

Could be a very sweet setup

[Kholi]

Not disappointed at Scarlet at all. 2/3" sensor is equiv to 16mm film. Love the fixed lens, it's a great compromise to get the advantages of point and shoot and the advantages of RAW recording. The RED lenses are spectacular and you can be sure this fixed lens will be no different. I figured Scarlet would be 16mm size and 2K, they delivered 3k (which on a bayer sensor is perfect size for a 2K/HD finish.

I'm up for this mentality, although I disagree with one point: the RED zoom lens is trash. There's no using that thing for anything serious, IMO, but a lot of people will disagree with me. That's one thing that confuses me about an Early 2009 release: what R & D has RED put into constructing a lens for all types of acquisition being that it's fixed?

[Luis Caffesse]

I bet you get the full 3k out of it or else there may be no real reason to tout that it's 3K RAW, y'know?


Doesn't stop them from calling the RED One a 4K camera.
:)

[Kholi]

Epic's price announced as $40K.

That's what I thought. And remember that's just the body. So if you use RED ONE purchases as an example, being that a RED ONE costs 17.5k and the least you could spend for a viable, useable camera (nikon mount) is 25k, I'd say that the expense for an EPIC goes to 55k land easily.

For a lot of people that own RED ONE's, going 25k meant sacrificing everything they owned. I'd say RED ONE is well protected

[Kholi]

Doesn't stop them from calling the RED One a 4K camera.
:)

To be fair, Panasonic calls the HVX a 1080p Camera. Although it arrives to that point through a not-so-straightforward path... we still consider it 1080p yes?

RED ONE will get you 4k. How it arrives at 4k may be questionable, in the end it's a standalone resolution with differences between 2k and 3k. I think the same applies to Scarlet although everyone's free to disagree with me.

Also, if this sucker costs $3,000 then indeed, you will have one sick setup for under 12k (considering batteries, all accessories-- mattebox, ff, etc) and Ultimate.

Ouch.

[Matthew R. Rodwell]

Still would like to know about audio and the Scarlet.

[rawfa]

I'd like to know what type of manual control you have over it and if it has a flip function.

[sean90291]

That's what I thought. And remember that's just the body. So if you use RED ONE purchases as an example, being that a RED ONE costs 17.5k and the least you could spend for a viable, useable camera (nikon mount) is 25k, I'd say that the expense for an EPIC goes to 55k land easily.

For a lot of people that own RED ONE's, going 25k meant sacrificing everything they owned. I'd say RED ONE is well protected

Except that if you already have Red One and accessories and equipment, they're supposedly going to be compatible with Epic (at this point). So in theory, you are simply upgrading your Red camera body to the tune of $22,500.

[Zander]

Well damn Kholi -
If this $3K pricetag is true, now you're looking at 3K for the cam and 4.5K for the Ultimate.
:)

Could be a very sweet setup

I'd be first in line.

[Kholi]

Still would like to know about audio and the Scarlet.

I wonder if they'll even comment on the Audio. I'm sure they WILL but RED ONE just got Audio itself and it's not the smoothest thing on the planet, by any means. That's going to be an issue that needs immediate addressing and fixing in RED ONE before people can count on it being an integral part (and by integral, I mean RELIABLE) of Scarlet's machine.

I wouldn't expect this camera to require you have some sort of external audio setup going at all times.

And running audio to an HVX200 while shooting RED ONE is a PAIN.

[Sumfun]

The Epic is going to be the top dog over the Red One but its going to be more expensive than $17,500 and probably ill use global CMOS or CCD to eliminate the rolling shutter problem.



For $40k, I would hope for a global shutter.

[Kholi]

Except that if you already have Red One and accessories and equipment, they're supposedly going to be compatible with Epic (at this point). So in theory, you are simply upgrading your Red camera body to the tune of $22,500.

Absolutely. You're not wrong about that, which is an awesome deal for owners of RED ONE who want to go 5k AKA Take over the Universe. If you're not an owner, then your expenses incurred will probably it 55k or more. There are NUMEROUS RED ONE packages that have exceeded the 80k dollar mark.

Optimo's are no joke! :D Hehe

[Luis Caffesse]

To be fair, Panasonic calls the HVX a 1080p Camera. Although it arrives to that point through a not-so-straightforward path... we still consider it 1080p yes?

Absolutely.
I think you misunderstood - my point was only to ask, sincerely, how much the actual res was after filtering of the 3K sensor. Just curious - not trying to bash the specs or anything.

Hell, I'm the first to point out the low pixel count on the HVX - yet the image looks great to me, and that's all I care about.

So yeah, technically it's a 3K camera (or it's going to be), just like the RED One is technically a 4K camera, and the HVX is a 1080P camera....but you know as well as I do that that bayer filter is wiping out a percentage of that res.
I was just asking how much. I know it's been mentioned on here before - is it as much as a third? Or is it less than that?

I mean to realistically compare these specs against other manufactures cameras - I think it's a fair question to ask. Especially seeing as they went the single larger sensor route as opposed to 3 chip route (which I appreciate, I've been wanting to see an affordabel single sensor, larger sensor cam for a while).

[Matthew R. Rodwell]

I prefer a double system audio setup but I like to have the option of onboard audio for run and gun work

[Kholi]

Absolutely.
I think you misunderstood - my point was only to ask, sincerely, how much the actual res was after filtering of the 3K sensor. Just curious - not trying to bash the specs or anything.

Hell, I'm the first to point out the low pixel count on the HVX - yet the image looks great to me, and that's all I care about.

So yeah, technically it's a 3K camera (or it's going to be), just like the RED One is technically a 4K camera, and the HVX is a 1080P camera....but you know as well as I do that that bayer filter is wiping out a percentage of that res.
I was just asking how much. I know it's been mentioned on here before - is it as much as a third? Or is it less than that.

I mean to realistically compare these specs against other manufactures cameras - I think it's a fair question to ask. Especially seeing as they went the single larger sensor route as opposed to 3 chip route (which I appreciate, I've been wanting to see an affordabel single sensor, larger sensor cam for a while).

Oh! I did misunderstand (but didn't htink you were bashing it). You're probably correct on what it wilL REALLY be. It'll be interesting to see how the specs really roll out indeed.

I'm with you. This is pretty nice. It's definitely NOT what I expected at all from these guys. And, it's still not an HVX Killer which is pretty weird.

I mean, in all right just hearing "3K RAW" should mean bye bye HVX/HPX EX-1 etc. But, it's not.

Even with the fixed lens the application is still not universal. The one thing that could kill sales is if this rumored $3,000.00 Price tag is real. THEN we've got some trouble. I foresee many people being beaten up in line to get one.

[LuckyStudio 13]

you know u are indie when the first thing u ask the camera maker "hey, does it have flip option".

[sean90291]

Absolutely.
I think you misunderstood - my point was only to ask, sincerely, how much the actual res was after filtering of the 3K sensor. Just curious - not trying to bash the specs or anything.



Actual res of bayer sensors is supposedly calculated at .75 x 3K = 2,250

So still over a 2K camera. For $3000! EX1, HVX, how can they survive?

[Kholi]

LOL. But I wouldn't put it past them. If they went fixed lens they'd have to know that 35mm Adapters are gonna be jammed on the end of this thing. One would hope they've got a flipped option.

Oh, and I bet that On-board LCD is high res!!! The RED ONE LCD is incredibly sharp, man. Although the viewing angle is atrocious, for a one-man show it's the sickest LCD you could possibly have.

It weighs next to nothing!

[Zander]

So still over a 2K camera. For $3000! EX1, HVX, how can they survive?

We'll see if that is the true cost. I'd love it to be but miracles don't happen everyday.

[sean90291]

The way I bet it works is you'd have to buy Red accessories. That's how it's gone with Red One. So the CAMERA BODY could be $3000. But you'd have to buy Red CF cards. Red cables. Red LCD. You can bet it's $3000 WITHOUT an LCD. And without a handle too. ;-)

[Kholi]

Actual res of bayer sensors is supposedly calculated at .75 x 3K = 2,250

So still over a 2K camera. For $3000! EX1, HVX, how can they survive?

If that camera is 3k then everyone's gonna be in a heap of trouble. That bein' said, there will always be a market for these other cameras if RED continues the non-conventional RAW method.

Let's face it: handing Raw material to a paying client won't fly in most situations. So, they'll survive on what they were made for and what Panasonic (and Sony) has built for their post workflow; Panasonic more-so than Sony.

Kinda hard to deny Panasonic's DVCproHD workflow. It really is a beauty.

[cardmaverick]

My big question is what will scarlets image quality be....

Everyoneone knows the HVX version of DVCPRO HD wasn't the same thing the Varicam used...

I'm still a bit skeptical about what "flavor" Redcode Scarlet will use.

[Luis Caffesse]

Actual res of bayer sensors is supposedly calculated at .75 x 3K = 2,250

So still over a 2K camera. For $3000! EX1, HVX, how can they survive?

Damn, that would be some nice res to have.
As far as the EX1 & HVX - I still think they'll be just fine.

How will they survive?
Established names, established workflows, integrated into established NLE's and postproduction paths. Large networks aren't going to jump on the Scarlet.
For those companies who have already invested in Cine Altas, HD XDcams, Varicams and HPX's - these smaller counterparts just make more sense to use as B cameras.
Throw a Scarlet or RED One or Epic into that flow and the whole workflow changes.

Give it years, and maybe things will change.
But right now RED is still very much the bleeding edge - and most companies aren't about to take that kind of risk on their gear. They need something established, solid, and universally accepted.

[sean90291]

If that camera is 3k then everyone's gonna be in a heap of trouble. That bein' said, there will always be a market for these other cameras if RED continues the non-conventional RAW method.

Let's face it: handing Raw material to a paying client won't fly in most situations. So, they'll survive on what they were made for and what Panasonic (and Sony) has built for their post workflow; Panasonic more-so than Sony.

Kinda hard to deny Panasonic's DVCproHD workflow. It really is a beauty.

It's soooo easy to add an in-camera look or curve. If that's the only thing that will hold back the Scarlet, it will be a simple MENU>LOOK>ON function.

[ftbt]

What about audio?

[Kholi]

The way I bet it works is you'd have to buy Red accessories. That's how it's gone with Red One. So the CAMERA BODY could be $3000. But you'd have to buy Red CF cards. Red cables. Red LCD. You can bet it's $3000 WITHOUT an LCD. And without a handle too. ;-)

This is probably correct. I think everything is gonna be proprietary for the camera which forces the owner to purchase everything directly from RED. You'll need at least 3 CF cards, an LCD, your cables (the Lemo cables are very durable!) and the cage setup. You could easily be looking at 6k out the door for a complete ready-to-work package.

Which still isn't, in anyway, terrible.

[cordvision]

real pics http://www.redmodz.com/
not renderings

[Matthew R. Rodwell]

The way I bet it works is you'd have to buy Red accessories. That's how it's gone with Red One. So the CAMERA BODY could be $3000. But you'd have to buy Red CF cards. Red cables. Red LCD. You can bet it's $3000 WITHOUT an LCD. And without a handle too. ;-)


It comes with an LCD

[Kholi]

It's soooo easy to add an in-camera look or curve. If that's the only thing that will hold back the Scarlet, it will be a simple MENU>LOOK>ON function.

You'll have to educate me on that one. Can you add it and will it be applied to Proxies and the r3d files? You really have no idea how much that would help.

But, as far as I knew, it was only for the LCD's and not for the final footages. Am I wrong? Please say I am. LOL

[Kholi]

real pics http://www.redmodz.com/
not renderings

NICE!!! This thing isn't tiny at all! And the RED LCD looks PERFECT on the unit.

And OH SNAP, it's setup for the 15mm Standard!!! Very hot. That means RED ROCK follow focuses, etc. Not to mention those who don't want to use pre-flipped adapters can probably really go upside down now with the RED cage method being employed here.

This thing is gonna look nasty built out with all the universal mounts.

[Concept89]

I have a question about this framerate claim of 1-120 fps (180 fps burst)....

what exactly does this mean???

Over/under crank? Or just shooting at that framerate?

[Luis Caffesse]

They list the LCD as part of the specs...
are we certain that means an LCD is included??
Seems too good to be true for "under $3K"

[Kholi]

They list the LCD as part of the specs...
are we certain that means an LCD is included??
Seems too good to be true for "under $3K"

I'm with you. I can totally see the LCD actually being the existing RED LCD.

Because it's light weight, complies with the modular mentality and exists already. That sucker is like 1700.00. If that's gonna be the LCD then I really hope that they do something about the atrocious viewing angle.

It ain't none to pretty. Looks like I have Predator vision on if I step to the side at all.

[Matthew R. Rodwell]

If that price is true I might be picking up an HMC150 for events and a Scarlet for shorts and features.

We were going to roll camera on a feature this fall but I am willing to delay production to film on a 3K camera.

[DChang]

If the camera is $3,000. How much would say, the pictured accessories in the case cost? Would that pictured setup cost 10k or less you think?

This is a really big kick in the ass to all the other companies, a wake up call at the least.

[Matthew R. Rodwell]

It said it would use most of the stuff out for the Red One so just check out the Red store and price some stuff, would probably be twice as much with needed accessories but thats still a great price range

[Kholi]

That setup pictured in the glass doesn't look like more than six-grand IF (Big IF) the body costs three. The LCD is 1700.00 (I think), the arm is about 100.00 and the rails, etc probably round out the rest.

What you don't see are CF Cards, batteries, etc etc. The stuff that makes it work.

I'd say it's somewhere around nine or ten grand if the body costs three.

[Luis Caffesse]

We were going to roll camera on a feature this fall but I am willing to delay production to film on a 3K camera.

If they're saying "Early 2009" my guess is we'll see Scarlet released at NAB 2009.
At that point you're looking at shooting summer/fall at the earliest.

There is always going to be something better coming along.
Personally, if I had a feature ready to go into production I'd go into production.
The time to shoot is when you're ready to shoot.... if you delay for the 'next big thing' you'll be delaying forever.

Just my 2 cents.

[LuckyStudio 13]

with Scarlet, cmos rolling shutter is back

[sean90291]

It comes with an LCD

I wouldn't count on it. Just because the LCD is listed there, doesn't mean it's included in the price. We're obviously piecing things together from the first, frantic announcements. And the camera won't even be released for a year or more.

But the LCD pictured is the Red LCD, which costs like $1700. And a Red Arm which costs something like $300 or $400. It's hard to imagine those items would be included in the Scarlet's $3K price. Red is a modular camera company. They also want Red One owners to buy these things, and REd One owners will already have a Red LCD. So you'll just buy a new Scarlet camera body for $3K.

This is all guessing still. But the modular model is definitely how Red has structured their business model.

[Matthew R. Rodwell]

If they're saying "Early 2009" my guess is we'll see Scarlet released at NAB 2009.
At that point you're looking at shooting summer/fall at the earliest.

There is always going to be something better coming along.
Personally, if I had a feature ready to go into production I'd go into production.
The time to shoot is when you're ready to shoot.... if you delay for the 'next big thing' you'll be delaying forever.

Just my 2 cents.

True, but pushing back till Summer of 09 also gives us more money in the budget to work with having more time to save.

[SomewhereinLA]

I have got to say I am really happy about the Scarlet announcement, especially if the price is indeed 3k, however the fixed lens really bother me. DOF control is important to me and I don't particularly like 35mm adaptor, they are so big... I wish they would come out with a scarlet with a built in 35mm mount, like a Nikon mount. This camera could be huge with the Documentary crowd. I think the attractive thing about red, is their modular approach, which I wish they would apply to their entire line, not just their high end product. In any case kudo to Red.

[Erik Olson]

I still think it's a bit disingenuous to say that you can have a professionally equipped REDOne for even $25k.

We are in the midst of having our leasing company work up our numbers for the fall CAP-EX and a single REDOne package is sitting at $50k without third-party glass. I will be happy to post the full package specification if anyone has any doubt about what constitutes a "professional" specification.

Therefore, a comparably realized Epic package can only rightly be had for $70k with RED glass. The Epic is, so far, advertised as the defacto replacement for the One. Is the One even out of "beta" release yet?

The 2/3" 3k for $3k price point is amazing if it is true.

e

[Luis Caffesse]

with Scarlet, cmos rolling shutter is back

True.
But I've seen little RED or EX-1 (and now EX-3) footage that I would find unacceptable.
In fact, it's all been pretty damn impressive.
Personally I think that issue has been a bit overblown.

What does cause me a bit of pause the more I look over the pics and specs is the total lack of audio details. Coupled with the unbelievable price of "under $3K" it makes me wonder if we're looking at a video only camera here. Would seem to go against the idea of a 'pocket camera' - but RED doesn't really seem to be aiming for the industrial/ENG market. Maybe their thought is to go for the ultra low budget indie market and expect people to use dual system sound?

God I hope not.

[John Caballero]

And the Scarlet speculation keeps on going and going and going......

[sean90291]

True.
But I've seen little RED or EX-1 (and now EX-3) footage that I would find unacceptable.
In fact, it's all been pretty damn impressive.
Personally I think that issue has been a bit overblown.

What does cause me a bit of pause the more I look over the pics and specs is the total lack of audio details. Coupled with the unbelievable price of "under $3K" it makes me wonder if we're looking at a video only camera here. Would seem to go against the idea of a 'pocket camera' - but RED doesn't really seem to be aiming for the industrial/ENG market. Maybe their thought is to go for the ultra low budget indie market and expect people to use dual system sound?

God I hope not.

Nah, surely they'll throw a single mini-XLR input into this thing at least.

Info on audio does get short shrift though doesn't it.

[Kholi]

I wouldn't count on it. Just because the LCD is listed there, doesn't mean it's included in the price. We're obviously piecing things together from the first, frantic announcements. And the camera won't even be released for a year or more.

But the LCD pictured is the Red LCD, which costs like $1700. And a Red Arm which costs something like $300 or $400. It's hard to imagine those items would be included in the Scarlet's $3K price. Red is a modular camera company. They also want Red One owners to buy these things, and REd One owners will already have a Red LCD. So you'll just buy a new Scarlet camera body for $3K.

This is all guessing still. But the modular model is definitely how Red has structured their business model.

Indeed. I really think you nailed it, Sean. 3,000 for the body and then you need to get the rest of the accessories. But, in the end, it still rocks the house.

One thing about the HPX500 is it's size once it's built out. Scarlet is 2/3" and it's tiny.

[Luis Caffesse]

Indeed. I really think you nailed it, Sean. 3,000 for the body and then you need to get the rest of the accessories. But, in the end, it still rocks the house.

One thing about the HPX500 is it's size once it's built out. Scarlet is 2/3" and it's tiny.

True - the HPX is also a 3 chip and Scarlet is a 1 chip cam.
Which also makes me wonder - what kind of noise/low light performance can we expect from a 2/3" chip cramed with 3K worth of pixels?

Guess we'll find out in 2009

[Postmaster]

hmmmm.... as far as I can see, there is no kind of display on the body at all.

Maybe the settings are so simple that you don´t need a menue, but if there is a menue I wonder if you have to get a monitor or if it is in the package?

Frank

[Kholi]

hmmmm.... as far as I can see, there is no kind of display on the body at all.

Maybe the settings are so simple that you don´t need a menue, but if there is a menue I wonder if you have to get a monitor or if it is in the package?

Frank

remember it's a prototype. There might be an additional screen on the back Similar to the RED ONE in the final model.

[Kholi]

I still think it's a bit disingenuous to say that you can have a professionally equipped REDOne for even $25k.

We are in the midst of having our leasing company work up our numbers for the fall CAP-EX and a single REDOne package is sitting at $50k without third-party glass. I will be happy to post the full package specification if anyone has any doubt about what constitutes a "professional" specification.

Therefore, a comparably realized Epic package can only rightly be had for $70k with RED glass. The Epic is, so far, advertised as the defacto replacement for the One. Is the One even out of "beta" release yet?

The 2/3" 3k for $3k price point is amazing if it is true.

e

I would like to see what the package consists of at 50k.

25k is "yes you can shoot"... it's more like "yes you can shoot... if you try REALLY hard.".

[Matty_g]

how fast are these suckers and what's their DR.
then i'll be interested.

Do you think current 35mm adapters will show grain at 3k?

how soon do you think someone will try to hack off that fixed lens? :P

[Erik Olson]

More than two CF cards for starters. :)

REDOne Body
CF Module
Bolt Set (2)
Body Cap
Lens Rear Cap (2)
18-50 T3
50-150 T3
EVF
LCD
EVF Cable (2)
LCD Cable (2)
Power Pack
Batts (6)
CF Card (8)
Batt Plate
Quck Plate
Bottom Plate
Shoulder Dovetail
Cheese Plate
Top Handle
Top Mount
Handle Mount
Handle L/R
Universal Mount
Arm 9" (1)
Arm 5" (1)
Side Handle (2)
Top Handle Ext.
Arri 19mm Base
Arri 15mm Base
6" Rods
12" Rods
18" Rods

e

[Kholi]

More than two CF cards for starters. :)

e

You can put together a package to get shooting with more than two CF cards and a Nikon mount for much less than what you're talkin' about.

Please, keep in mind we're talking camera only. Not support. Assuming that you barely have money for the camera alone, you'd be renting support, etc.

It's less false and more optimistic that 25k can get you shooting RED ONE if you're shooting for people who can afford to rent camera support, etc.

[Kwan]

I'm really feeling 5K-EPIC (Specification) and 18-85MM T2.9 ZOOM.

[sean90291]

Epic is SMALLER than Red One! Obviously (?) that should mean LIGHTER too. Damn.

[John Caballero]

If the specs that Red has up for Scarlet so far show an 8X Red zoom lens as part of the camera how in the world you are figuring a body only price. The lens apparently is going to be glued or something to the camera. Don’t knock yourself over the head and wait a few more minutes for full details.

[Kholi]

You really have to wonder why EPIC was born, though. 4k's already overkill, 5k's pretty much destroying the universe. Wonder what else it does outside of 5k that'll make it worth the 40k price-tag over RED ONE.

[SomewhereinLA]

hmmmm.... as far as I can see, there is no kind of display on the body at all.

Maybe the settings are so simple that you don´t need a menue, but if there is a menue I wonder if you have to get a monitor or if it is in the package?

Frank

Well that's always the catch with RED. 3k would be the body+lens only, then you would need to buy accessories such as a display, to make it fully functional. It's probably going to be shy of 8-10k once you get all the stuff that's really needed. Same as the RED one, once you add all the things you need the camere jump from 17k to 40-50K.

I think the Scarlet could become the true Indie camera that RED one was meant to be if they can keep it under or around the 10k range including all the accesories you would need.

[Luis Caffesse]

I'd love to hear someone who is at the show pipe up in this thread with a confirmation one way or the other about on board audio with the Scarlet.

Then again, it's kind of a moot point right now I suppose.
You know what they say at RED,
"SPECIFICATIONS, DELIVERY DATES AND DESIGN ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE... COUNT ON IT."

[sean90291]

Well that's always the catch with RED. 3k would be the body+lens only, then you would need to buy accessories such as a display, to make it fully functional. It's probably going to be shy of 8-10k once you get all the stuff that's really needed. Same as the RED one, once you add all the things you need the camere jump from 17k to 40-50K.

I think the Scarlet could become the true Indie camera that RED one was meant to be if they can keep it under or around the 10k range including all the accesories you would need.

I know this is subject of some debate, but I wish people would stop sayin' you need to spend $40K to have a working Red One. You don't. We spent $25K and our Red One is working full swing. If you're Soderbergh, you CAN spend $50K. You don't have to. Sorry, I've digressed from the exciting NAB news.

[cardmaverick]

You really have to wonder why EPIC was born, though. 4k's already overkill, 5k's pretty much destroying the universe. Wonder what else it does outside of 5k that'll make it worth the 40k price-tag over RED ONE.

Mostly likely tungsten balanced, thats something pro DPs having been screaming for, and at 5K, you'll get better resolution because 4K bayer really isn't 4K, and lots of people speculate that Redcode is making 2K images and upressing.... there have been some interesting test done on this.

And maybe they will bring back the RAW PORT option... please!!!!!

[sean90291]

[L]ots of people speculate that Redcode is making 2K images and upressing.... there have been some interesting test done on this.


Really?! I haven't heard this one. Interesting.

[cardmaverick]

Yeah, but keep in mind Redcode is an ever changing compression scheme, so that could have just been an older version.

[SomewhereinLA]

I know this is subject of some debate, but I wish people would stop sayin' you need to spend $40K to have a working Red One. You don't. We spent $25K and our Red One is working full swing. If you're Soderbergh, you CAN spend $50K. You don't have to. Sorry, I've digressed from the exciting NAB news.

I would love to know what you set-up is, unless you rent all your lenses I just don't know how you can get to under 25k, sorry... Maybe another thread...

[dory_breaux]

Wow. 180fps bursts? wow. that alone would have sold me, BUT, a 8x lens? Count me out. Unless someone comes up with a quadrupler for that, I am not touching it. Even if it is 3k at 3k. But the epic does look pretty sexual, altho if its just One with 5k then... whats the point? What theater is screneing 5k?

Defenetly made me slip a little in my "film is the best, you cant beat it" theroy.

[sean90291]

I would love to know what you set-up is. Maybe another thread...

I won't hijack this thread. I'm more interested in NAB news. But short (and final) answer: camera body; base production pack, Red LCD, Red RAID drive+CF module; Nikon mount. Add Nikon lenses to taste (anywere from $90 for a lens to $5000...but don't for a second think that you CAN'T make a movie on Red with a few sub-$400 Nikon primes). I have other production equipment that I have used with other cameras. And a house to put it in. I don't include those costs in the cost of my working Red Camera, just like I don't add lens tissues to the cost of my EX1.

[jiggigibbie]

But does the Scarlet have a manual focus ring?
And no XLR input? MOS (mit out sound) is having a comeback? I guess I have to get a EDIROL Field recorder (http://www.edirol.net/products/en/R-09HR/index.html) to get sound.

[cardmaverick]

I think some people out there might be disappointed with Scarlet for pro work, but if a DP needs a nice camera for home videos... :)

[cinematical]

Scarlet has me psyched...now I'm going to be torn between panasonic's new offerings and this. But if Scarlet really is under $3000...good lord, I'm in.

[sean90291]

I think some people out there might be disappointed with Scarlet for pro work, but if a DP needs a nice camera for home videos... :)

Hey, I've used an HV20 for "pro work." I won't be disappointed! :-)

[Matty_g]

what's wrong with renting all your glass?

[sean90291]

what's wrong with renting all your glass?

Nothing. It's a BRILLIANT way to go! I'm with ya.

[cardmaverick]

Hey, I've used an HV20 for "pro work." I won't be disappointed! :-)

Well, again, it depends on the DP you know. 35mm DPs who are trying to switch to digital are game for Epic. I'm working with Andromeda because it gives me what I value, and I'm wondering how it will stack up image wise to Scarlet... I think I'll still be good to go in the dynamic range and color fidelity department. I'm only 1K though, but still man, 10 bit RGB uncompressed. I really wonder what Redcode will do to the data coming out of that sensor, its USABLE dynamic range, etc... If you ever get to work with Andromeda in 16 bit tiff form, you'll be pretty hooked on the sheer quality of it.

But I digress. It depends on where your coming from. For me, it might be a step down in some departments, but a step up in others. So its complex for me. For HV20 shooters, it's a solid step up. For Dalsa shooters, big step down, etc...

[LuckyStudio 13]

Fully minimum functional Red One cam

17,500(red one) + 1250 (prod pack) + 400 (2x cf card) + 500 (nikon mount) + 500 (cf module) + 1750 (LCD) + $900 (2x V mount batt + charger)

= $ 22,800

[cardmaverick]

Will there be a market for cheaper refurbished Red One bodies?

$17.5K new, thats what, about $14-15K refurb/used straight from Red?

Please let this come to pass.....

[Denis Haineault]

Pardon my inexperience, but based on available information, would Scarlet have at least 4:2:2 colour sampling?

If so, seems like a pretty sweet camera for those keying shots

[bgundu]

I think Scarlet would make a nice greenscreen camera. You don't need interchangeable lens, and you don't need audio.

[Postmaster]

hmmmm.... as far as I can see, there is no kind of display on the body at all.

Maybe the settings are so simple that you don´t need a menue, but if there is a menue I wonder if you have to get a monitor or if it is in the package?

Frank



got to quote my self while thinking about the WiFi controll.

What if you access the menu throu .... let´s say your Iphone or similar device.

Frank

[karapetkov]

Well... that was fun.

So...Lets all meet back here in a year when it's released?
:)

Lol. :)

[Kholi]

Fully minimum functional Red One cam

17,500(red one) + 1250 (prod pack) + 400 (2x cf card) + 500 (nikon mount) + 500 (cf module) + 1750 (LCD) + $900 (2x V mount batt + charger)

= $ 22,800

That isn't a working package. You guys really need to put your hands on the camera to decide what a working packages is.

You'd get stuck dead in the water with that package.

Minimal is honest-to-goodness 25k - 27k

[robbo]

Just woke up - went over to red forums .... came over here.

Kinda v disappointed in no lens options, but not surprised.
It'll be a great cam - this will be some kids' first camera, lol.
Staggering ...

[EDIT-XTREEM]

Wow. 14 Pages. They both look like sweet cameras. I doubt RED would produce the Scarlet similarly to the RED ONE, if they are going to sell them for $3000, they are going to need to start factory lining them.. Mass production.

[karapetkov]

Ouch.

Ouch indeed.

But fixed lens is kinda disappointing.

No lens would be great :).

[LuckyStudio 13]

whats missing in that package Kholi ??? most of us dont have the luxury of playing with the RED ONE in real life. please ....


That isn't a working package. You guys really need to put your hands on the camera to decide what a working packages is.

You'd get stuck dead in the water with that package.

Minimal is honest-to-goodness 25k - 27k

[robbo]

Ouch indeed.

But fixed lens is kinda disappointing.

No lens would be great :).


If we all bleated long and hard maybe Jim would listen.

[Kholi]

whats missing in that package Kholi ??? most of us dont have the luxury of playing with the RED ONE in real life. please ....

You need at least three of the expendables I.E Batteries and CF Cards. Two and you're gonna see downtime. Four of each is ideal, especially if you don't have a RED DRIVE (Which could actually be better than CF cards but you need both for Variable speeds).

You also forget storage (hard cases) in that equation along with other small tidbits that you'll need. It really is 25 - 27k and that's Optimistic. Everything else you rent.

I'd expect ANYONE investing this kind of money into a package like this to be working at all times, with clients lined up that can utilize the RAW data.

[Sumfun]

You need at least three of the expendables I.E Batteries and CF Cards. Two and you're gonna see downtime. Four of each is ideal, especially if you don't have a RED DRIVE (Which could actually be better than CF cards but you need both for Variable speeds).

You also forget storage (hard cases) in that equation along with other small tidbits that you'll need. It really is 25 - 27k and that's Optimistic. Everything else you rent.

I'd expect ANYONE investing this kind of money into a package like this to be working at all times, with clients lined up that can utilize the RAW data.

Don't forget a lens.

[LuckyStudio 13]

I'd expect ANYONE investing this kind of money into a package like this to be working at all times, with clients lined up that can utilize the RAW data.

Agreed 100% thats why I cancelled my Red One reservation back in November.

[Justyn]

With Red's history for hyping and then delaying and delaying, coupled with a crazy low price point-can't believe 3K-, makes this camera a reality in about 18 months. It's kind of like people who invite you to there wedding and tell everyone they are getting married, but it's 2 years away. Such a tease and rampant craziness will insue.. speculation and drama. I'm with Luis, i'm going back to sleep for atleast a year and will see what pops up then.

When renegade/independent companies start up there's under no authority, have no expectations to follow other than their own, and it leave's people with their cheese hanging in the wind.


Sure, I'm stoked about the idea but why focus all this time on something that doesn't amount to anything tangible now and could indeed have a rolling shutter or a painfully narrow lens or whatever. I've been having nightmares about the rolling shutter crap, so I don't want to compound this with dreams of the Scarlet. I'm setting my alarm and will wake up next year.. in about 18 months I'm thinking.

[karapetkov]

If we all bleated long and hard maybe Jim would listen.

Now, THAT's an idea...

:-Laugh(DBG)-1:evil:

No, I mean, seriously...

[Matty_g]

Don't forget a lens.

RENT

[Kholi]

Matt is right. If you don't have enough work coming in or enough capital to invest you would rent. IN fact, if you don't have enough workign coming in you should only have the body to begin with or the core accessories.

[Nicky]

With Red's history for hyping and then delaying and delaying, coupled with a crazy low price point-can't believe 3K-, makes this camera a reality in about 18 months. It's kind of like people who invite you to there wedding and tell everyone they are getting married, but it's 2 years away. Such a tease and rampant craziness will insue.. speculation and drama. I'm with Luis, i'm going back to sleep for atleast a year and will see what pops up then.

When renegade/independent companies start up there's under no authority, have no expectations to follow other than their own, and it leave's people with their cheese hanging in the wind.


Sure, I'm stoked about the idea but why focus all this time on something that doesn't amount to anything tangible now and could indeed have a rolling shutter or a painfully narrow lens or whatever. I've been having nightmares about the rolling shutter crap, so I don't want to compound this with dreams of the Scarlet. I'm setting my alarm and will wake up next year.. in about 18 months I'm thinking.

Very mature decision Justin... to say the least!:) How old are you?

People are still waiting for their Red Ones and now everyones gettin all hyped about the scarlet - Ill bet things turn out the same as last time (history tends to repeat)

[sean90291]

That isn't a working package. You guys really need to put your hands on the camera to decide what a working packages is.

You'd get stuck dead in the water with that package.

Minimal is honest-to-goodness 25k - 27k

Hey Kholi. That's pretty much our package. I've had my hands all over it. We're shooting. No problems.

You can power the camera with AC current through the Red charger too.

Note that a Red Drive means you don't even need CF cards. CF cards are super NICE. But NOT necessary.

And don't underestimate a single Nikkor 50mm 1.4, available for about $300.

It all depends on who you are. If you want to go on set with Soderberg, you need more. If you're an indie filmmaker, like most of us on here, you're good to go.

Plus there's rentals!

Maybe folks wont' be convinced until the first ultra-low-budget Red feature comes out, having been shot handheld with nothing but a single Nikon lens and a Red Drive.

[robbo]

Now, THAT's an idea...

:-Laugh(DBG)-1:evil:

No, I mean, seriously...



heh, finally got red forums to load (shit, it's still very slow) Didn't try to post - just reading.

Don't worry - the bleats have begun (about 55 posts so far, just about all asking for lens option) !!!

I'll head back later when it's quietened down a bit.

[Luis Caffesse]

I'll head back later when it's quietened down a bit.

You mean in December?
:)

[robbo]

lo l
NAB 2009 ...

[DChang]

With Red's history for hyping and then delaying and delaying, coupled with a crazy low price point-can't believe 3K-, makes this camera a reality in about 18 months. It's kind of like people who invite you to there wedding and tell everyone they are getting married, but it's 2 years away. Such a tease and rampant craziness will insue.. speculation and drama. I'm with Luis, i'm going back to sleep for atleast a year and will see what pops up then.

When renegade/independent companies start up there's under no authority, have no expectations to follow other than their own, and it leave's people with their cheese hanging in the wind.


Sure, I'm stoked about the idea but why focus all this time on something that doesn't amount to anything tangible now and could indeed have a rolling shutter or a painfully narrow lens or whatever. I've been having nightmares about the rolling shutter crap, so I don't want to compound this with dreams of the Scarlet. I'm setting my alarm and will wake up next year.. in about 18 months I'm thinking.

It's interesting to see what RED does & delivers, personally I enjoy reading about it because I can't wait to see how the competition reacts, it's them who I am keeping an eye out for. And sadly their rate of development & pricing is so slow that it often takes renegade/indie companies to bring out progress. If it wasnt for RED how long do you think it would have taken for 3k to reach you and at $3,000!?

[Bryan]

Can anyone confirm that SCARLET supports audio? Someone at the conference perhaps?


.

[TheMusician]

Everybody needs to take a good hard look at what Red is offering - it is incredible! First, any pre-concieved notion that you might have had regarding Scarlet is your own fault - we were ONLY told that it would be a "professional pocket camera" and that is it.

Secondly, at the prices that have been hinted at, you are getting 3K RAW, which is better than ANYTHING that any camera from competitors is offering in this price range with unlimited image fidel-ability.

Thirdly, it is supposed to be a RED B camera. Did you think they would give you 3K with full 35mm DOF with interchangeable lenses at the prices that have been suggested? Who then would buy a RED One or Epic?!? They aren't dumb you know.

Fourth, even after adding a 35mm adapter it will be cheaper than an HPX500 or EX3 which you will also have to add an adapter to get good 35mm DOF - BUT YOU ALSO GET MORE RESOLUTION, IN A RAW FORMAT, AND SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER FRAME RATES! THIS IS INCREDDIBBBBLE!!!

SO QUIT YOUR CRYIN!... and enjoy the ride, cause now Sony and Panny are going to have to react, which is good for everyone.

Good Times!

[Batutta]

As others have noted, wish it were a 35mm sensor, but 2/3" is nothing to sneeze at, and for the prices being rumored I'm guaranteed to buy one. Hope they include sound, and here's a idea...since it's WiFi capable why not just make an external wireless module with a few XLR inputs that sends audio wirelessly to the Scarlet? The boom operator could wear it on his hip instead of shlepping cable around.

[Denis Haineault]

Everybody needs to take a good hard look at what Red is offering - it is incredible! First, any pre-concieved notion that you might have had regarding Scarlet is your own fault - we were ONLY told that it would be a "professional pocket camera" and that is it.

Secondly, at the prices that have been hinted at, you are getting 3K RAW, which is better than ANYTHING that any camera from competitors is offering in this price range with unlimited image fidel-ability.

Thirdly, it is supposed to be a RED B camera. Did you think they would give you 3K with full 35mm DOF with interchangeable lenses at the prices that have been suggested? Who then would buy a RED One or Epic?!? They aren't dumb you know.

Fourth, even after adding a 35mm adapter it will be cheaper than an HPX500 or EX3 which you will also have to add an adapter to get good 35mm DOF - BUT YOU ALSO GET MORE RESOLUTION, IN A RAW FORMAT, AND SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER FRAME RATES! THIS IS INCREDDIBBBBLE!!!

SO QUIT YOUR CRYIN!... and enjoy the ride, cause now Sony and Panny are going to have to react, which is good for everyone.

Good Times!


Amen !

[Justyn]

Very mature decision Justin... to say the least!:) How old are you?

People are still waiting for their Red Ones and now everyones gettin all hyped about the scarlet - Ill bet things turn out the same as last time (history tends to repeat)


Well I'm 36 but sometimes according to the wife I'm 12 and when I'm sick, like I am today, I'm younger than my 5 year old son. I think things are great but talk about the stuff that people get so fervent about. Remember how people waited and waited for that cineporter that didn't get developed or what not. I actually held off today from buying the SD9 in hopes that Scarlet might be around the corner... LOL.. I'm going to bed..

cheers and this is good news but why speculate or pontificate as it maybe on something that won't be here for a good solid year at least. That's enough time for things to change a lot in my life and by then I might decide to pack it all in and hike the Appalacian Trail..

cheers all

[Luis Caffesse]

As others have noted, wish it were a 35mm sensor, but 2/3" is nothing to sneeze at, and for the prices being rumored I'm guaranteed to buy one. Hope they include sound, and here's a idea...since it's WiFi capable why not just make an external wireless module with a few XLR inputs that sends audio wirelessly to the Scarlet? The boom operator could wear it on his hip instead of shlepping cable around.

While that's an interesting suggestion I don't know any sound guy that would prefer using a wireless rig to a wire one. Getting clean sound is hard enough as it is - no need to worry about transmisison issues on top of it.

[Luis Caffesse]

That's enough time for things to change a lot in my life and by then I might decide to pack it all in and hike the Appalacian Trail...

Good point... but wouldn't you want a 'pocket camera' to document that trip on?
:evil:

[Kholi]

Sony and Pana aren't in any sort of immediate danger. You must realize that.

DVCproHD is established and simple. The price to performance ratio is fair and justified over the past two to three years.

RAW is a completely different animal that you should pet before praising. It ain't a walk in the park and it's easy to mishandle.

What it DOES offer over the current crop (excluding the soon-to-be-released Cameras) of Camera's is a cleaner, sharper image. I think once Pana and Sony hit this mark (Sony's pretty much there) at a 1080p Frame then the Resolution war becomes even more moot.

Scarlet's nice. But it's not a Sony and Pana killer by any means. There are many other sectors aside from the no-budget do-it-yourself crowd. We comprise only a TINY bit of the overall camera sales.

[TheMusician]

Kholi,

Absolutely you are right, it is not a Sony or Pana killer. But RED's market is currently Indie and professional film makers, not news or run and gun situations.

And if you are into indie film or feature film, then you are more than willing to work with RAW, in fact, it is essential.

So even if it is not a Sony/Pana Killer, it is an incredible tool at an incredible price point with incredible features, and if Sony or Pana want to compete at the Indie level, they have got some new competition. In fact, I would venture to say that they are now the underdogs in the feature/indie film market with REDs new releases.

But I definitely don't want any heated arguements, I am just thrilled at NAB this year. Sony has some incredible releases, Panasonic has some incredible releases, and so does RED. And this benefits us all.

[Luis Caffesse]

In fact, I would venture to say that they are now the underdogs in the feature/indie film market with REDs new releases.

Well, to be fair, they might be the underdogs in 12+ months when RED actually releases new cameras. All we have right now are announcements.


Sony has some incredible releases, Panasonic has some incredible releases, and so does RED. And this benefits us all.

Absolutely.
Bring on the competition in the marketplace!
:thumbsup:

[Kholi]

Well, to be fair, they might be the underdogs in 12+ months when RED actually releases new cameras. All we have right now are announcements.



Absolutely.
Bring on the competition in the marketplace!
:thumbsup:

Can't even BEGIN to disagree on competition in the marketplace. Only makes it better for all of us.

And can't disagree with the blatant logic that the camera isn't even out yet. For that I'm actually glad. HOPING to keep work coming in so I can get an HPX170 to tide over til Scarlet.

That's the main thing to focus on right now.

[Kholi]

By the way, someone touched on the RED ONE used market. That coincides with REFURBISHED market as well.

With the Trade-Up Program going into effect, the refurbed Market should be quite tasty no?

[Erik Olson]

While that's an interesting suggestion I don't know any sound guy that would prefer using a wireless rig to a wire one. Getting clean sound is hard enough as it is - no need to worry about transmisison issues on top of it.

You said it.

e

[TheMusician]

HOPING to keep work coming in so I can get an HPX170 to tide over til Scarlet.

That's the main thing to focus on right now.


Me too, until some time next year, it has come down to the HPX170 or EX1 for me. Can't wait to hear about the image(sharpness, noise, colors) coming from the HPX170.

Anyone heard of anything new coming from Canon or JVC?

[Nicky]

While that's an interesting suggestion I don't know any sound guy that would prefer using a wireless rig to a wire one. Getting clean sound is hard enough as it is - no need to worry about transmisison issues on top of it.

LOL - I thought u were that 18 year old - my mistake.

Anyway as Barry mentioned somewhere 3k single bayer is actually 2k-ish, and those 100fps are probably windowed seeing as its CMOS. I remember when Red One was first announced the specs were CRAZY, and then years later we find out the real world figures (check adam wilts review against EX1, F23, etc.) And remember we are talking about a rolling shutter camera (I assume) so I think we need to see it more in light of a HV20 sorta light.

[Matthew R. Rodwell]

Good point... but wouldn't you want a 'pocket camera' to document that trip on?
:evil:

Only if it was solar powered, perhaps when they release a green Red.

[karapetkov]

You mean in December?
:)

LOL N: 2. :)

Yeah, I too was expecting the Scarlets to start popping out after NAB. Like popcorn.

Early `09? I might not even be on the planet then? :)

[florisvaneck]

After what feels like years of waiting, RED finally unveiled the Scarlet today. And I believe the whole industry is shaking on its feet for the second time. The Scarlet is totally different from anything we have seen so far and definitely the most unconventional camcorder of the 21st century. People who watch the TV series LOST on ABC know what I mean. That series gives you an answer on a question and that answers leads to 10 new questions. RED had managed to pull of the same today with the Scarlet.

Let's start with the specifications as provided by RED:

* NEW 2/3" MYSTERIUM X SENSOR
* 1-120 FPS (180FPS BURST)
* UP TO 100 MB/SEC REDCODE RAW AND RGB RECORDING TO DUAL COMPACT FLASH
* 4.8" LCD
* 8X T2.8 RED ZOOM LENS
* FULL AUTO OR FULL MANUAL SHOOTING MODES
* HDMI and HD-SDI
* FIREWIRE 800 and USB2
* STILL MODE
* COMPATIBLE WITH MANY RED ONE ACCESSORIES
* WI-FI CONTROL

The first thing I noticed was the weird form factor. It looks like a pocket camcorder for the consumer market, only of the same build quality and looks as the RED ONE. Jim mentioned that this was going to be an all-metal camera. There are multiple pictures of the Scarlet and one is equipped with an external monitor and some handles. I think that although the ergonomics are different, the two handles will definitely work. So in the ergonomics department, they moved away from the classic design that Sony, Canon, Panasonic and JVC have been using for ages. That might be a good thing.

If we look at the specifications, we see a 2/3" MYSTERIUM X sensor. I think many people are disappointed because they expected a 35mm sensor. But I think for a camera like this 2/3" is a great performance and with most other Camera vendors using 1/3" or 1/2" it is a big improvement. It puts them in the XDCAM and VARICAM territory, which is amazing. It is a single sensor, like the RED ONE, and I think you have to approach it from a photography kind of view. All Digital SLR cameras for photography have one sensor, and they take amazingly sharp and crispy pictures with a good lens. When they have proper debayering, I think this sensor will be perfect.

The framerates. Amazing. From 1 - 120 fps. No other camera in this class pulls this off and this will allow over- and undercranking. Extreme slow-motion, and high-speed shots all in the palm of your hand. 120 fps is something everyone has been asking for on cameras from Sony, Panasonic, Canon and JVC and RED is the first company to pull it off. The 180fps burst mode will appeal to the surf, skate and extreme sports crowd. I think no one has complaints in this area. I hope this will be the new standard.

Up to 100MB/sec REDCODE RAW recording to dual compact flash. Amazing. The only issues I see here is archiving/storage/computing power. Most of us will currently use 25mbps/35mbps/50mbps footage and now we are getting 100mbps 4:4:4 (I suppose) RAW footage. This means additional processing which ask for a lot of storage space and an incredibly fast computer. I have the feeling that many people are hyped up about this camera but forget that this is no HDV format that you can play directly on your television without additional processing. Because of this, I cannot see that this camera will work for the consumer crowd or even many prosumers. You will need a many CF cards to store 100mbps footage and the workflow is completely different than the workflow most people are used to.

4.8" LCD. Means nothing. Size is great, but the resolution is far more important. It should be as good as the Sony PMW-EX1 LCD screen or even better to allow proper focussing of the high resolution image. I hope it includes the one that is shown on the picture because it looks great.

Fixed lens. I am puzzled. I really, really hoped for an interchangeable lens system. I hoped the Scarlet would be the video equivalent of the Nikon D300. And this means I would have loved interchangeable lenses. I think the T2.8 lens is not bad but it could have been so much better. They create the dream camcorder for indie filmmakers and then they limit it to a single, 8x lens which makes it far less appealing to me and many others. I can see that they did this so it does not eat sales from the RED ONE, but I wished (and hope they will change this in the future) made lenses interchangeable.

FULL AUTO or FULL MANUAL shooting modes. How will this work? I see no focus, iris and zoom rings? Will this be menu based? Again, this is weird and something I expected the Scarlet to have. Maybe the come up with a revolutionary new way of controlling focus, iris and zoom. It might have something to do with the WI-FI control. I can see them having a control module which you can attach to the Scarlet to do all these things in a way that is completely different than we have been used to. Like the Nintendo Wii controller looked very weird but has changed the whole industry.

HDMI and HD-SDI. Perfect, I guess that we will also get embedded audio through both of these jacks. No complaints here.

FIREWIRE 800 and USB2. Perfect. Both industry standards, and having FIREWIRE 800 is always great as it is much faster than USB2.

STILL MODE. Also a nice thing because you can use the Scarlet as a still camera as well and it makes it possible to take photos during shoots which are of high quality and can be used for marketing purposes.

COMPATIBLE WITH MANY RED ONE ACCESSORIES. Great. I expect this camera to be completely modular. That's why I guess you cannot see any audio jacks. There will be an audio module (I guess) which two XLR inputs and audio management options that can be attached to the cameras. I also mentioned the two handles which looks great and comfortable. Then there is also the matte box (and I guess that means filters too). Modularity is the best thing in the world as you only pay for what you want and not for what you won't need. I don't see why other companies don't understand this. You can always add things but never remove things you won't need.

The conclusion is that I think they are creating a revolutionary product that has already sent a shock-wave through the industry. I am sure many R&D teams of Sony, Panasonic, Canon, JVC and maybe even Nikon and Olympus are watching every step of RED from now and are going to jump in this market with their own products. I hope we will finally see more metal products instead of all those plastic, flimsy prosumer camcorders. But I do have some doubts. The major one is the lens and the controls. They have to come up with a good system for controlling focus, zoom and iris and I cannot see it from the pictures they released. I hope they will also release a version with interchangeable lenses. Without those, I think you get the most powerful camcorder but can never unleash its full potential. I see why they would want to protect the sales of the big RED's but I think they can do this as well by increasing the price of such a Scarlet by $2,000 - $2,500 so the difference between the Scarlet and the RED One will be smaller.

I hope there will be a lot of interviews about this camera with Jim soon because I have more questions then when I did not know what the Scarlet was a few hours ago. Anyway, interesting times. RED shaked up the industry and all other companies will be forced to rethink the way they work, and more importantly, how their products look and what features they have. Only for that reason every industry should have a company like RED.

Congratulations Jim and the other members of your team. Enjoy NAB and I hope I get some answers in the coming week!

[ilauzirika]

LOL N: 2. :)


Early `09? I might not even be on the planet then? :)

yes I'm sure not, you'll be filming a new documentary on mars with the red epic 5k:grin:

[karapetkov]

yes I'm sure not, you'll be filming a new documentary on mars with the red epic 5k:grin:

How did you find out?

That was supposed to be a secret.

Those Martians... :Drogar-Thinking(DBG

Can't keep their... umm... mouths ... shut.

[Batutta]

While that's an interesting suggestion I don't know any sound guy that would prefer using a wireless rig to a wire one. Getting clean sound is hard enough as it is - no need to worry about transmisison issues on top of it.

True for now, but I wish someone would invest more time and technology into a good wireless option that didn't cost and arm and a leg. Something digital with good error correction and a stable signal can't be too difficult, or cost that much money to produce. I can get a bluetooth earpiece with crystal clear audio for less than 50 bucks. The area of sound capturing for film and video seems like it's in dire need of some innovation. Yes, what we have now works, but it could be better and cheaper.

Here's another suggestion. A portable recorder that uses the Scarlet's WiFi connection to synchronize with. The camera man pushes play, and the recorder rolls with the same exact timecode.

[SomewhereinLA]

I won't hijack this thread. I'm more interested in NAB news. But short (and final) answer: camera body; base production pack, Red LCD, Red RAID drive+CF module; Nikon mount. Add Nikon lenses to taste (anywere from $90 for a lens to $5000...but don't for a second think that you CAN'T make a movie on Red with a few sub-$400 Nikon primes). I have other production equipment that I have used with other cameras. And a house to put it in. I don't include those costs in the cost of my working Red Camera, just like I don't add lens tissues to the cost of my EX1.

Of course if you are using Nikon lenses you can get away with less, but it is a bit like buying a Porsche and put a 100hp 4 cylinder engine. Nikon on a RED isn't considered a pro PKG in my book... The great thing about the red camera is the ability to use film lenses, which are engineered very differently than still photography lenses. No offense, but using a still lens on a Red is, in my opinion missing what the camera was built for. I don't mean to imply you won't get a descent result with a Nikon lens, but a film lens will give far superior results.

[Luis Caffesse]

After what feels like years of waiting....(etc)
Link (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=196037&postcount=1)

[Luis Caffesse]

While I was over there, I also saw this:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=195983&postcount=21

Apparently someone asked Graeme about audio on the scarlet, to which he said:
"I can't give specifics but Yes Scarlet will have audio."

So there goes that worry.

[Kholi]

Of course if you are using Nikon lenses you can get away with less, but it is a bit like buying a Porsche and put a 100hp 4 cylinder engine. Nikon on a RED isn't considered a pro PKG in my book... The great thing about the red camera is the ability to use film lenses, which are engineered very differently than still photography lenses. No offense, but using a still lens on a Red is, in my opinion missing what the camera was built for. I don't mean to imply you won't get a descent result with a Nikon lens, but a film lens will give far superior results.

Most RED owners do not own Film Lenses. In the event, sayin' it again here, that you do own a RED ONE you ought'a be bringin' in enough money to support it and your clients ought'a be ready to rent the good stuff.

In the event that they can't, you can still pick up jobs usin' Nikon lenses. Chances are, if they can't afford to rent PL glass in the first place, the Nikon glass is going to "match" the project regardless.

So, yeah, 25k is an Optimistic RED ONE package that you can shoot with.

[Batutta]

While I was over there, I also saw this:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=195983&postcount=21

Apparently someone asked Graeme about audio on the scarlet, to which he said:
"I can't give specifics but Yes Scarlet will have audio."

So there goes that worry.

That's a relief. I was looking at the pics again and while I can tell what almost every port on the back is for, what is that round top one over the HDMI? Mini XLR?

http://red.cachefly.net/nab/red_3k_scarlet_hero.png

[SomewhereinLA]

Most RED owners do not own Film Lenses. In the event, sayin' it again here, that you do own a RED ONE you ought'a be bringin' in enough money to support it and your clients ought'a be ready to rent the good stuff.

In the event that they can't, you can still pick up jobs usin' Nikon lenses. Chances are, if they can't afford to rent PL glass in the first place, the Nikon glass is going to "match" the project regardless.

So, yeah, 25k is an Optimistic RED ONE package that you can shoot with.

I couldn't agree with you more. Maybe you should read the post that originated the discussion/comments which basically was, what constitute a RED "PRO" pkg. And a PRO pkg will include film lens. Call any rental house in L.A I doubt the RED pro pkg they rent comes with Nikon lenses in it.

Not sure I understand what you mean by "the Nikon glass is going to "match" the project regardless."

cheers.

[shaocaholica]

Of course if you are using Nikon lenses you can get away with less, but it is a bit like buying a Porsche and put a 100hp 4 cylinder engine. Nikon on a RED isn't considered a pro PKG in my book... The great thing about the red camera is the ability to use film lenses, which are engineered very differently than still photography lenses. No offense, but using a still lens on a Red is, in my opinion missing what the camera was built for. I don't mean to imply you won't get a descent result with a Nikon lens, but a film lens will give far superior results.

I'll agree with you on one thing, cine lenses are designed with different user base and workflow in mind. Barring that, I have yet to read or see any empirical study that shows that cine lenses produce images that are substantially different from still lenses. If anything, its more about the design of the controls on the lens rather than the actual optical formula which is responsible for the image produced. I've leafed through quite a few optical design textbooks and I haven't come across any reason why optical designs would differ for still and film. Your analogy with the "Porsche and put a 100hp 4 cylinder engine" is not really proven in any way.

I will bet you that if you shot a single frame with a still camera with a matching still lens(same optical design, same aperture design) on the same film stock with the exact same post production work, you won't be able to tell the difference and logically, why would you?

[Kholi]

I couldn't agree with you more. Maybe you should read the post that originated the discussion/comments which basically was, what constitute a RED "PRO" pkg. And a PRO pkg will include film lens. Call any rental house in L.A I doubt the RED pro pkg they rent comes with Nikon lenses in it.

Not sure I understand what you mean by "the Nikon glass is going to "match" the project regardless."

cheers.

Indierentals does rent a RED ONE with Nikon mount last I heard. I get what you're saying about a professional package. I don't think that those guys were calling it a professional package, more so a "working" package: you can shoot with it, doesn't mean it's the best type-of-deal.


By the comment I made: If you don't have the money to rent glass for 200 a day you probably don't have the money to do a lot of other things. Thus, the image will match the budget/production.

That's often true unless your Producer is striking sick deals.

[Tim Naylor]

I'll agree with you on one thing, cine lenses are designed with different user base and workflow in mind. Barring that, I have yet to read or see any empirical study that shows that cine lenses produce images that are substantially different from still lenses. If anything, its more about the design of the controls on the lens rather than the actual optical formula which is responsible for the image produced. I've leafed through quite a few optical design textbooks and I haven't come across any reason why optical designs would differ for still and film. Your analogy with the "Porsche and put a 100hp 4 cylinder engine" is not really proven in any way.

I will bet you that if you shot a single frame with a still camera with a matching still lens(same optical design, same aperture design) on the same film stock with the exact same post production work, you won't be able to tell the difference and logically, why would you?

Name a still lens that shoots sharp wide open (1.4), that comes close to a Speed Set wide open. That's where there's vast difference as well as edge to edge sharpness. And then there's breathing. These are the three areas where cine lenses kick still lenses asses. They are also the areas that don't mean much on a coffee table book but become a big deal on a 50 foot screen. These are also the three areas that aren't hugely important to still photography.

With zooms, however, I think the Nikon zooms compete on a cine level with cine zooms.

[snowleopard]

I, for one, have no problem with Scarlet having a fixed lens. Nor do I find 2/3" chips too tiny. We've long ago crossed the line of good enough, and the skills needed to make something look good will weigh in far more than this. I think it's important to remember the price point here (assuming the camera truly is $3,000).


In the end, once you build this sucker up with the Cage and batteries, Mattebox, etc, it should be the size of an HVX.

That's an interesting guess. Curious as to what that would cost? I mean, for your $3,000, what do you get? And if you sunk another grand into it? Then if you beefed it up, would it cost you $6k?

My other issue is build and shipping. "Early 2009" could very well mean 12 months from now. And though Jannard has said it will ship when built, I'm a bit skeptical here judging by their past performance. Will Red guarantee that when they ship in "early 2009" if 10,000 of us order them, they'll arrive at our doorstep in a few days? Or do we have to go on another waiting list and wait another several months?

[Kholi]

Jim said that no unit is shipped until it's ready to go. Thus, no Beta period or waiting in line.

That's why I don't expect this Early 2009 thing. More like late 2009 early 2010.

Beefed up? I bet you're knockin on 10k's door.

[snowleopard]

I have to admit, as much as waiting sucks, I think this is a smart move on Jim's part. Especially with Scarlet, as they should sell tons of them to amateur filmmakers.

[Tim Naylor]

There's an elephant in the room and his name is CMOS.

[Kwan]

5K EPIC


SPECIFICATIONS:

* FULL FRAME S35MM NEW MYSTERIUM X SENSOR
* 1-100 FPS
* UP TO 100 MB/SEC. REDCODE RAW AND RGB RECORDING TO REDFLASH
* FULL SIZE DUAL LINK HD-SDI, 2-XLR AUDIO INPUTS AND HDMI
* WI-FI CONTROL
* FIREWIRE 800 and USB2
* 6 POUND FULLY MACHINED ALUMINUM BODY WITH HYBRID STAINLESS PL MOUNT
* COMPATIBLE WITH MOST RED ONE ACCESSORIES
* FULLY UPGRADABLE SENSOR, BODY, BOARDS AND MOUNT.

EPIC 5K? Any 5K Display available (little weird.)?
But 5K is probably the best way to shoot 4K and data-rate increase is a huge step forward.
Hummmm... 2009 means' .... Spend more for System and Storage.

Every industry needs a RED.

[ecking]

Well damn Kholi -
If this $3K pricetag is true, now you're looking at 3K for the cam and 4.5K for the Ultimate.
:)

Could be a very sweet setup

If that comes to pass this will be first machine to ever give me an orgasm.

[krestofre]

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/mcurtis/story/red_scarlet_3k_for_3kat_up_to_120fps/

Here's some solid info. Sounds pretty good. I'll either be adding this or the HPX170 to my arsenal ASAP. It will be interesting to see which convinces me to part with my money.

[PaPa]

Most RED owners do not own Film Lenses. In the event, sayin' it again here, that you do own a RED ONE you ought'a be bringin' in enough money to support it and your clients ought'a be ready to rent the good stuff.

In the event that they can't, you can still pick up jobs usin' Nikon lenses. Chances are, if they can't afford to rent PL glass in the first place, the Nikon glass is going to "match" the project regardless.

So, yeah, 25k is an Optimistic RED ONE package that you can shoot with.

For the hell of it, i put together a RED package and priced it up, for me it was close to 40 k to have a working camera and lenses that would be sufficient for doing a short film or feature. Not sure where all these other low figure are coming from.

[kenn michael]

You'll have to educate me on that one. Can you add it and will it be applied to Proxies and the r3d files? You really have no idea how much that would help.

But, as far as I knew, it was only for the LCD's and not for the final footages. Am I wrong? Please say I am. LOL

Yep, if you create a look in camera (using the parameters in the 'VIDEO' menu - contrast, brightness, saturation, etc...) it will come up with those changes in RedAlert and even RedCine. The proxies will be affected to look like your LCD looked when you shot it... and you can always change it back to flat.

Then, you can save those looks on the SD card to reload quickly in the field without having to fiddle thru menus.

[kenn michael]

For the hell of it, i put together a RED package and priced it up, for me it was close to 40 k to have a working camera and lenses that would be sufficient for doing a short film or feature. Not sure where all these other low figure are coming from.

If you're not buying lenses and will be renting glass, then 25K is a realistic number for the body, mounts, rods, power, storage, monitor, etc...

That won't include tripod, mattebox, follow focus, and glass (like I said).... But all those things can be rented...

And don't discount the Nikon mount route. That stuff can look great (although focus pulling can be a little challenging depending on the age of the lens).

[Matthew R. Rodwell]

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/mcurtis/story/red_scarlet_3k_for_3kat_up_to_120fps/

Here's some solid info. Sounds pretty good. I'll either be adding this or the HPX170 to my arsenal ASAP. It will be interesting to see which convinces me to part with my money.

Great find, glad it answers the question about audio.

[sean90291]

For the hell of it, i put together a RED package and priced it up, for me it was close to 40 k to have a working camera and lenses that would be sufficient for doing a short film or feature. Not sure where all these other low figure are coming from.

Sounds like you decided against the Red. I'm curious what opted for instead?

[snowleopard]

Here's some solid info. Sounds pretty good. I'll either be adding this or the HPX170 to my arsenal ASAP

Well, if you need it ASAP, then you'll be buying something else, because the Panasonic won't be out until probably October, and Scarlet won't be released until probably a year from now.

[shaocaholica]

Name a still lens that shoots sharp wide open (1.4), that comes close to a Speed Set wide open. That's where there's vast difference as well as edge to edge sharpness. And then there's breathing. These are the three areas where cine lenses kick still lenses asses. They are also the areas that don't mean much on a coffee table book but become a big deal on a 50 foot screen. These are also the three areas that aren't hugely important to still photography.

With zooms, however, I think the Nikon zooms compete on a cine level with cine zooms.

My custom modified digital mounted Minolta 58/1.2 is pretty damn sharp at f/1.4 and it only cost me $200.

Here is a gallery of ~4K digital images taken with the 58/1.2 at f/1.2-2. (http://shaozhang.smugmug.com/gallery/4598419_HkpWc#272802741_RF5ki) You can load the original 4k image in that gallery and peep in on the sharpness of a dinky $200 lens from the '60s. Besides, you're never shooting wide open that frequently anyway.

Ever watch Star Wars (IV, V & VI) in HD? (There are 1080p broadcast captures floating around). Whatever Lucas used to shoot those had horrible corner softness and CA and yet they are still beautiful movies(especially the remastered). If you can do that with a crappy cine lens, why should we care about the minute differences between still and cine lenses anyway?

From all that I've read, optically, the differences are minimal and if you're going to do a lot of post work, those differences are going to be even less noticeable. What you loose is productivity from the lack of control.

I won't believe anyone who says a cine lens is sharper than a still lens unless they've seen a side by side with. Sure there are plenty of really crappy still lenses out there. Far more percentage wise than cine lenses but I can't believe that the very top tier of still lenses is that much worse if not the same or better than an equivalent era cine lens.

[aalleexx]

someone help me understand something here, are we happy that red announces cameras that we wont get out hands on until a year ( or so) from now, that pisses me off guys on the real man, many of us need equipment now, what is the benefit of knowing every detail about scarlet for example if we cant use it, someone send some light overhere because I dont get it

[SPZ]

As a current HVX owner wanting an upgrade, the Scarlet hasn't solved my problems: it has added to them!

1st- Its very tempting on paper but not a World apart from the EX 3, for example. If anyone saw the Adam Witt "unfair comparison of the Red One, F23, and the EX-1" (his words!), the Red One was as sharp as an EX-1 from the stills posted (Adam stated a miscalibration on the RED, but sincerely, I don't buy it). We know how RED records "4k", and the F23, a 1920x1080 camera, smoked it in lines of resolution.

2- However, 3000 USD for 120fps 3k is just unbelievable. And bursts at 180 fps? DEAL! Slow Motion is integral to my "shooting language". May it be my TVC's or my shorts, and this immediately raised my "MUST BUY" signal :).

3- But, then another small disappointment: "Early 2009" Ok, but what about delivery? Seeing the slow distribution of the current RED ONE, and seeing there's no reservation period, this would mean Summer 2009 for delivery looking with a very optimistic eye...And it will be chaos to get one of those...

CUrrently, my plan is to keep the HVX and try out the EX3. If its as good as it sounds on paper, I'll sell my HVX and buy the EX3. And then, by summer 2009, will add a Scarlet to the setup.

I'm a bit concerned by the EX3's weight and how it would balance on my GLidecam Smooth Shooter. But the Scarlet, obviously, would fit well...

[krestofre]

Well, if you need it ASAP, then you'll be buying something else, because the Panasonic won't be out until probably October, and Scarlet won't be released until probably a year from now.

Poor choice of words. I've got plenty of things to shoot with. I simply meant that once I've decided between the two I'll order as soon as they let me.


1st- Its very tempting on paper but not a World apart from the EX 3, for example. If anyone saw the Adam Witt "unfair comparison of the Red One, F23, and the EX-1" (his words!), the Red One was as sharp as an EX-1 from the stills posted (Adam stated a miscalibration on the RED, but sincerely, I don't buy it). We know how RED records "4k", and the F23, a 1920x1080 camera, smoked it in lines of resolution.


Don't forget that the F23 has internal sharpening in the camera and the RED has ZERO in-camera sharpening. You can push sharpening pretty far in post with RED RAW, I was impressed at any rate. I've no experience with the F23 or EX1, and I don't know that the internal sharpening accounts for the entire difference, but I love the fact that RED gives me the option. There's no "remove sharpening" on the F23 or EX1.

[Denis Haineault]

Not sure if this was posted already...

this link:
http://videomaker.com/community/blogs/videonews/2008/04/1974-red-announces-scarlet-at-nab-2008/

from this thread:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11770


confirms:
- price is less than $3000
- will be using RED CompactFlash

[snowleopard]

Well, my understanding with the F23 is that a large part of it's appeal is that it has an exposure of about 11-12 stops, compared to many other cameras 7-8, and the Red's 8-9. However, I haven't run any tests, and haven't even seen an F23 with my own eyes. I could be regurgitating false information that seemed legit when I read it.


Ever watch Star Wars (IV, V & VI) in HD? (There are 1080p broadcast captures floating around). Whatever Lucas used to shoot those had horrible corner softness and CA and yet they are still beautiful movies(especially the remastered). If you can do that with a crappy cine lens, why should we care about the minute differences between still and cine lenses anyway?

Boy, I'm in 1000% agreement here! We've long ago reached "good enough" in quality of these cameras. Way long ago. With skill, you could make a great looking product on the HVX, or even the $3,000 Canon A1, or a used DVX100 if DVD (SD) is your final output!

[Kholi]

Yep, if you create a look in camera (using the parameters in the 'VIDEO' menu - contrast, brightness, saturation, etc...) it will come up with those changes in RedAlert and even RedCine. The proxies will be affected to look like your LCD looked when you shot it... and you can always change it back to flat.

Then, you can save those looks on the SD card to reload quickly in the field without having to fiddle thru menus.

Kenn thanks for the information! You got a PM coming.

[Barry_Green]

I'm a little dissappointed that it's a fixed lens, but that thing still looks awesome. Cramming 3k into a 2/3 chip though has got to make for a pretty dense pixel count. Is that about the same density as the HV20?
The HV20 is 3 million pixels on a 1/2.7" chip. Scarlet would be about 5 million pixels on a 2/3" chip. So the actual density on the Scarlet should be much lower, per square mm, than the density on the HV20. Ballpark math would be that you have 67% more pixels on 4x as much surface area, so the pixels on the Scarlet should be noticeably bigger than those on the HV20.

[Barry_Green]

Realistically - with a 3K single sensor what are we looking at in terms of final resolution?
Would it be fair to say 2K?
(assuming it's a bayer filter)
It should be easily fair to say 2K. Graeme's currently quoting a figure of about 78% total final resolution. That should mean, if the Scarlet is comparable to the One in this manner, that you're getting as much as 3072*.78 = about 2.4K of total res. So let's be conservative and round it down all the way to 2K. That's better than 1080P res. None too shabby!

[Zander]

http://videomaker.com/community/blogs/videonews/2008/04/1974-red-announces-scarlet-at-nab-2008/

Somebody get that guy a focus puller!

[Barry_Green]

And if you are into indie film or feature film, then you are more than willing to work with RAW, in fact, it is essential.
Really? Seems like a whole lot of films have been done without going to that "essential" step.

Working with Raw is amazing. But it's also astonishingly slow. It's probably a good thing that the Scarlet is a year away, because that'll let the tools catch up (quad-core laptops, octo-core desktops). I feel the same way about the HMC150: AVC-HD isn't quite ready for prime production usage yet, but maybe in the next six or 7 months the companies will all get their act together and make it a reality.

Download some R3D's and play with the raw footage in redcine. It's not a walk in the park.


In fact, I would venture to say that they are now the underdogs in the feature/indie film market with REDs new releases.
Releases? or announcements? There's only one Red product on the market, and it's still largely in alpha state. Alpha = first working prototypes, beta = "we think we're done, go check for bugs". Red's still adding massive new updates, so it's still in what I'd consider alpha. Maybe it'll go into beta after build 16 is released.

Scarlet has been announced. It's also said that there's a year before we'll see any product, and that every specification is subject to change and that you should, in fact, "count" on things changing.

Nobody's more jazzed about Scarlet than I am, I'm all over this like Louie Anderson at the Circus Circus buffet. But let's not get too premature. When I put down my deposit for a Red One, it was a "4K/2K/1080P/720P camera with 4K @ 60fps uncompressed output through a fiber channel port." That's not exactly what ended up shipping; there's no 1080P, no 720P, and no 4K at 60fps, and no fiber channel port and no uncompressed output. But it's also got 3K mode and the 2K mode goes to 120fps. Things change.

The current Scarlet announcement is not a "release", and it's nothing for anyone to get too distracted by. What counts is what actually gets released, and when. I very much look forward to seeing how this all turns out. The Scarlet could be the ultimate indie film cam, but I'm more concerned with workflow right now.

But I definitely don't want any heated arguements, I am just thrilled at NAB this year. Sony has some incredible releases, Panasonic has some incredible releases, and so does RED. And this benefits us all.[/quote]

[dust'n the callipygous]

For everyone that didn't want a lens:

I was under the impression that a 2/3" chip will create a deeper DOF than a 35mm chip. This is mostly the reason people buy 35mm adapters--to create a more shallow depth of field for their cameras with smaller sensors. Why would you want a 2/3" camera without glass? Adding your own lens isn't going to create the depth you want because of the smaller chip size. You'd still need the adapter.

The Scarlet setup just has a bonus lens for people that like to do quick, run and gun shooting without all the extras thrown in front of the lens and weighing down the camera. Granted it's not removable, but why should it be when you've got to use an adapter anyway?

Am I understanding how this stuff properly works, or am I completely wrong here?

[shaocaholica]

For everyone that didn't want a lens:

I was under the impression that a 2/3" chip will create a deeper DOF than a 35mm chip. This is mostly the reason people buy 35mm adapters--to create a more shallow depth of field for their cameras with smaller sensors. Why would you want a 2/3" camera without glass? Adding your own lens isn't going to create the depth you want because of the smaller chip size. You'd still need the adapter.

The Scarlet setup just has a bonus lens for people that like to do quick, run and gun shooting without all the extras thrown in front of the lens and weighing down the camera. Granted it's not removable, but why should it be when you've got to use an adapter anyway?

Am I understanding how this stuff properly works, or am I completely wrong here?

You're right but people just want a cheaper RED 1 with removeable lenses. They could care less about the form factor. However, its true that a 2/3" sensor will still be awkward to use as a removeable lens system since those lenses will be made for 35mm and you'll get still massive focal length multiplication.

Basically, people wanted a cheaper RED with removeable lenses and they didn't get it but what they did get isn't that bad either.

[krestofre]

Download some R3D's and play with the raw footage in redcine. It's not a walk in the park.

Amen. But it sure is fun. :)

[Barry_Green]

Amen. But it sure is fun. :)
As long as you're not facing a deadline, yes. :thumbsup:

[Kholi]

S'exactly what I said. RAW is no joke. It's not the point-and-shoot everyone's used to. But, I guess you gotta play with it to see that.

I do like the fact that you can apply the VIDEO look to the footage, though. I'm glad Kenn told me that I could do that!

[SPZ]

If the Scarlet comes out as good as it sounds on paper, this will be the standard indie camera.

I figure Hollywood is trying to sell 3d as the next big thing for movies. I, however, don't believe the Hype. As a person that needs glasses to see clearly, 3d glasses or any type of 3d as never worked well for me, as I'm sure it hasn't for many others with vision problems.

Why do I say this? Filmmaking Technology for the digital age as become cheaper and cheaper, and improving in performance in an incredible pace. It feels to me they are phasing out conventional filmmaking technology assured that the future is going to new forms of entertainment. I'm glad this is happening!


Why? Because I believe conventional cinema is here to stay. Above all, its about storytelling. A movie like "Once", for example, shot in HDV (or mini-dv?) is a success regarless of any time because its brilliant cinema- simple, touching storytelling, excelent music and performances.

As an independent filmmaker I'm happy the barriers are being broken!

Now I just need some dinamic range and low light performance numbers, and if they are at the HPX500 ballpark, than here it is: the standard tool for Indie filmmaking!

[snowleopard]

SPZ - I agree with you completely on storytelling, and how any of these cameras will perform fine in the hands of the right person. It's a shame so many think they need something like Red One (or the F23 for that matter) in order to make something of quality.

"If Scarlet..." "When Scarlet..." Over and over I hear that. And so few are willing to wait before passing judgment it seems.

Barry - Thanks for the straight up comment on Red One in alpha and the long wait for Scarlet and it's unknowns. I grow wary of making any critical comments about Red for being attacked by the hoards of Red apologists and fans. Unfortunately it will not take long for the Red people, if employed by Red or not, to continually tell us about how great Scarlet will be, quoting numbers and specs from Red and it's internal tests provided by tests themselves, long before the camera ever comes close to actual release and objective testing.

Meanwhile, the HVX200 and HPX500 continue to work great, and my guess is that sometime this summer or fall, these new Panasonic cameras will be released, and very likely work fine and completely as advertised. Not in alpha state, not in beta state, not with parts or technology that is so proprietary (Mysterium) no external objective data or reports exist on it. but reliably working 100%.

And no, I'm not an HVX or HPX owner, nor an employee of Panasonic.

[Robin Leveille]

Is that a little viewfinder window, in the middle of that ball looking control at the rear of the scarlet? if so that would be cool.

[mcgeedigital]

I was blown away by the 2 new Varicams, and will most likely be getting one of them when they come out.

It is a proven, reliable workflow form a company that listens to its customers.

[Postmaster]

There is almost a war going on over in the RED Forum.
Poeple complaining about fixed lens, ugly body andwhatnot.

Most of them are not getting the point and Jim Jannard seems to be pretty pissed.


How dumb is it to ask for a Nikon mount on Scarlet?

What would you shoot wide with? There are NO Nikon lenses designed for a 2/3" sensor.

What are you thinking?

Jim

I think the Scarlet will be a revolution (once on the market).

3k@3k RAW (that is clean 2k out if a Bayer sensor) is great.
2/3 sensor in this price class allone is unbelivable.

It is the first digital 16mm film camera and I don´t give a damn about the fixed lens - if it is good (and I bet it rocks) why would I want to change it for a Nikon?

Pros (at least for me):
It gives me propper DOF without adapter
RAW data to play with (I know it´s not that easy)
full manual controll
clean 2k resolution

what else can you ask for 3k?

....umm I would rather like to record on harddisk than on cards.

If they keep the price I´m in.

Frank

[mcgeedigital]

Jeez, there are some real winners over there for sure.

[karapetkov]

If that comes to pass this will be first machine to ever give me an orgasm.


Welcome to the club. Lol.

[Mark Harris]

S'exactly what I said. RAW is no joke. It's not the point-and-shoot everyone's used to. But, I guess you gotta play with it to see that.

I do like the fact that you can apply the VIDEO look to the footage, though. I'm glad Kenn told me that I could do that!

I hear you, but man, scarlet seems to be pretty much what I had hoped the new HVXes would be. With even more res. I agree it might not be the best for client work yet, but man, for making your own film? Under $3K for the base unit? It's pretty frickin incredible.

Because when making my own films, at the end of the day I really only care about two main things: light sensitivity and resolution.

And if the 2/3" chips help give close to the same DOF control as the HPX, I'm all good. And of course the 120FPS I had prayed for in the HVX forum...:)

[Barry_Green]

3k@3k RAW (that is clean 2k out if a Bayer sensor) is great.
2/3 sensor in this price class allone is unbelivable.
ANYTHING in this price class is unbelievable; to get a super-high-res solid 1080P or 2K out of it is stunning, to get a 2/3" chip is beyond awesome. I haven't dug into the reduser reactions yet, but anyone complaining in any way about the Scarlet is completely off base. What they're promising, for $3,000, is just insanely over the top.

Could it have been better? of course. Interchangeable lens would be nice, etc. But it's just like people being "disappointed" that the $5500-ish HPX170 isn't an EX3-killer... you have to factor in the price. People were expecting the Scarlet to be "below $10,000". It's $3,000! Come ON, people.


....umm I would rather like to record on harddisk than on cards.

There I'll disagree 100%. hard disk is the lamest recording system on the planet. I'm much happier with the dual compactflash approach. I bought a red drive, and I'd use CF instead every single time unless I absolutely *had* to have larger capacity. Scarlet's not shipping for at least a year, and I'm sure we'll have 32GB cards by then. Two 32's should provide plenty of recording capacity with absolutely no hassle.

[Huy Vu]

Wait, so IS Scarlet $3000? I thought it was a figure that was tossed out there. Didn't know that it was confirmed by RED themselves.

[Mark Harris]

well, in one of those blog links, the guy at the RED booth said under $3000...

[Huy Vu]

Really? Because the first I heard of the $3000 figure was when someone posted from camcorderinfo. Then another website mentioned that it was $3000 as well. Then that became a figure that everyone accepted. Did anyone who was there actually heard from a RED representative about this?

[themagickite]

i reckon they should have gone with c-mount

in this clip a red dude says "target price is under $3000"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkoHTjx8siM

[Luis Caffesse]

Two 32's should provide plenty of recording capacity with absolutely no hassle.

Clearly we can't know anything for certain until the details are out - but based on current REDcode space demands can any of you with RED experience give us a ballpark figure as to how much recording time we'd be talking about?

[rawfa]

I'm dying to see what this is going to do to the competition.

[Kholi]

My vote is: nothing.

[Kholi]

I hear you, but man, scarlet seems to be pretty much what I had hoped the new HVXes would be. With even more res. I agree it might not be the best for client work yet, but man, for making your own film? Under $3K for the base unit? It's pretty frickin incredible.

Because when making my own films, at the end of the day I really only care about two main things: light sensitivity and resolution.

And if the 2/3" chips help give close to the same DOF control as the HPX, I'm all good. And of course the 120FPS I had prayed for in the HVX forum...:)

Resolution I want, definitely. It's less resolution, though, and more "resolved detail". I think one of the newer HPX/HMC cameras might give that to people in a format we can already trust.

Scarlet's gonna still force us to use 35mm Adapters. I have no interest in using the fixed lens and would still like control over my image. The good thing is that if it's following the RED ONE production workflow you'll have control over ISO/ASA. Yum.

This cam's not due out for a while, though. And the HPX/HMC cams are. The HPX500 already being available and at a crazy price.

I'm glad that I was half-wrong about Scarlet. Announcement's out there and now we hurry up and wait! Til then I've got my eye on the new HPX170.

[LuckyStudio 13]

I am totally with Kholi on this one. Red should partner up with Apple and use pro res HQ 4:2:2 codec instead. Just like how Kona partnered up with apple on the AJA.

[Luis Caffesse]

Did anyone who was there actually heard from a RED representative about this?

It's been posted by RED reps on the reduser forum, and it was said by Ted himself in an interview posted as well.

So yes, the official RED word is that Scarlet will be "under $3,000"

[Kholi]

I am totally with Kholi on this one. Red should partner up with Apple and use pro res HQ 4:2:2 codec instead. Just like how Kona partnered up with apple on the AJA.

Now that would be nasty. That immediately changes the game up but then again RED thrives on bein' a proprietary entity.

One thing that people don't realize as well is that the camera produces these lil files called PROXIES. And, I just got this myself (thanks to Matty G!).

The Proxy files come in about three or four different sizes (2k and 1k I know for sure) and they're VERY HIgh-Res and retain a lot of the data from the RAW file. They're H.264 format as well.

The image in these proxies STILL spits all over any sub 10k Camera setup, and I'd go as far as to say they look as good as HPX3000 files but obviously with more detail and latittude still apparent. You can grade these suckers to hell and back and they hold up really well.

If you ONLY needed say 2k or 1k and nothing more, then you could finish your entire project off of the 2k Proxy files generated by the camera. Convert the H.264 to ProRes or whatever you wish and work with those directly.

Kenn Michael informing me that you can sort of "apply" the look you see from your LCD to the footage/proxy files confirmed for me that this workflow is definitely a possibility for clients that can't handle RAW. It's an extra step, nothing as easy as DVCproHD but the extra step you take equates to a better image overall.

So, for me, RED is much more universal than "RAW" format.

[LuckyStudio 13]

yeah, watch the RED interview with Ted, he says the Scarlet is aim towards everybody, the soccer mum ....etc.

Yeah, i imagine soccer mums everywhere will be thrilled to flow with the RED RAW workflow in their lil mac mini or iMac.

Red cams are geek cam. Made for narrative indie filmmakers that cannot afford the Varicam, F900 or Film cam. Thats the nature of the beast. If they wanted to target soccer mums and the teen skateboarders, their workflow has to change. Not every teen skater can afford a Mac Pro and FCS.

[Luis Caffesse]

They're saying over at reduser.net now that the Scarlet will have a built-in 4.8" LCD.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11869

[William_Robinette]

I don't know where they are going to put it on the body...

[Luis Caffesse]

I'm with you - though at $3K i was expecting to have to pay for a seperate LCD anyhow, so anything is good.

Honestly, I don't even know why I'm keeping up with the developments.
I should just unplug for 18 months and come back to see what they come out with.

[Goldmond]

Until then Jim did confirm that scarlet would have 2 audio channels.

[Erik Olson]

Until then Jim did confirm that scarlet would have 2 audio channels.

That'll do for a lot of work and will help in double-system for scratch tracking.

e

[Luis Caffesse]

Okay - just saw the 'official' post:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=197054&postcount=20

So yes, 4.8" LCD included on the camera.
Guess that lowers the overall package price a bit.
I'd been assuming I would need to buy the $1700 Red LCD.

(which would have been kind of funny on a camera that is theoretically under $3K)

[Kholi]

I thought so as well. That's pretty sick.

I think I'm with Luis, gotta stop lookin' at this thing for a year or I'll go crazy. LoL

HPX170 is more realistic as it is, I'm gonna go hang out with those guys. ... Well, Maybe.

[Erik Olson]

How do we get on the waiting list for the 170? Where do I submit my deposit? Oh, wait... Panasonic will actually have this product avaialble in the fall through its vast network of authorized dealers.

First in the door with some green takes the actual product back to the shop with them.

e

[Luis Caffesse]

How do we get on the waiting list for the 170? Where do I submit my deposit?

I'll forward you the address where you can send your check.
Though money order or wire transfer would be faster and would secure you a better place in line.
:D

[Kholi]

How do we get on the waiting list for the 170? Where do I submit my deposit? Oh, wait... Panasonic will actually have this product avaialble in the fall through its vast network of authorized dealers.

First in the door with some green takes the actual product back to the shop with them.

e

Lmfao!!! Nice one, Erik!

[Erik Olson]

I'm not a RED basher. Far from it, truly. Jim is doing amazing stuff, and what RED does will help redefine the industry. Perhaps not in the way that first springs to mind, but they will certainly catalyze things in good ways.

That said, I do have a slight problem with someone telling me my $25 - $50k camera is an "alpha" or "beta" product and that I shouldn't plan on using it for paying work. In my experience, beta-testers don't usually pay for the privilege to be guinea pigs.

:evil:

e

[Mark Harris]

In my experience, beta-testers don't usually pay for the privilege to be guinea pigs.

:evil:

e

Never worked with an Apple computer, have you.

OOOOOOO, ZING! :) :evil: :evil: :)

[Erik Olson]

You sir... are naughty!

e

[Adam J McKay]

Seriously a 3k cinema cam for a few hundred bucks more then the DVX? That is insane, however like many others have said. We will see what happens in a year when it is actually released.

[Luis Caffesse]

I'm not a RED basher. Far from it, truly. Jim is doing amazing stuff, and what RED does will help redefine the industry. Perhaps not in the way that first springs to mind, but they will certainly catalyze things in good ways.

That said, I do have a slight problem with someone telling me my $25 - $50k camera is an "alpha" or "beta" product and that I shouldn't plan on using it for paying work. In my experience, beta-testers don't usually pay for the privilege to be guinea pigs.

:evil:

e


Couldn't agree with you more on all points, Erik.

[timbook2]

ANYTHING in this price class is unbelievable; to get a super-high-res solid 1080P or 2K out of it is stunning, to get a 2/3" chip is beyond awesome. I haven't dug into the reduser reactions yet, but anyone complaining in any way about the Scarlet is completely off base. What they're promising, for $3,000, is just insanely over the top.

Could it have been better? of course. Interchangeable lens would be nice, etc. But it's just like people being "disappointed" that the $5500-ish HPX170 isn't an EX3-killer... you have to factor in the price. People were expecting the Scarlet to be "below $10,000". It's $3,000! Come ON, people.


There I'll disagree 100%. hard disk is the lamest recording system on the planet. I'm much happier with the dual compactflash approach. I bought a red drive, and I'd use CF instead every single time unless I absolutely *had* to have larger capacity. Scarlet's not shipping for at least a year, and I'm sure we'll have 32GB cards by then. Two 32's should provide plenty of recording capacity with absolutely no hassle.

I cant agree more! I was waiting for something like this to happen and am going to buy a Scarlet. Now I am curious if the classic players ( pana-sony-jvc-canon) will somehow react to the Scarlet "menace" ;-)
I also doubt we will see the first scarlet delivered before summer of 2009 so there is still some time left for more nice surpises.
Scarlets price was definately a nice one .
red one users are going to buy crates of scarlets.