Hpx-170 Lcd

[doondoon]

I really hope that Panasonic addressed (in my opinion) the weakest and most frustrating aspect of the HVX-200. THE LOW RESOLUTION LCD.

FOCUS ! :violent5:

I haven't seen anything about it so far. Makes me nervous.
We'll see tomorrow.

Looks like they've attempted to address the other main issues.

[Mickey Munday]

is it supposed to be the same price range as the hvx200 or the hpx500?

[Barry_Green]

The 170 will likely be in the same general price range as the HVX200.

As for what may have been done with focus, we'll see (assuming there's a functioning model). It does have a "focus assist" button on it.

[NorthernFilmMaker]

The 170 will likely be in the same general price range as the HVX200.

As for what may have been done with focus, we'll see (assuming there's a functioning model). It does have a "focus assist" button on it.

I hope they use the same focus assist as the HPX500.... I like it!

[Steve Shovlar]

Have to be something special to get close or surpass the Sony EX3, or EX1 for that matter.

Only thing is to match the EX1, and offer real time frame ramping. Thats about all thats missing from the Sony that I would like to have.

[Justyn]

Except for the aweful rolling shutter bizness. That's a deal braker if you are planning on shooting anything in extreme conditions.

[doondoon]

Except for the aweful rolling shutter bizness. That's a deal braker if you are planning on shooting anything in extreme conditions.

I shot skiing / snowboarding at high speeds with lots of movement two weeks ago in Aspen Colorado... It was snowing hard and blowing like hell. There were trees and things in the background wizzing by fast... I considered the conditions relatively extreme. Upon reviewing the footage I saw no evidence of rolling shutter. Also, the codec held up great.

I'm sure if I went frame by frame and analyzed very closely I could find something... but the fact is that most people don't watch footage that way (unless you're on these boards everyday). Neither the director nor the producer said anything about rolling shutter...

Now, a camera flash on the other hand, it's easy to see the rolling shutter on the EX1.

[Barry_Green]

Have to be something special to get close or surpass the Sony EX3, or EX1 for that matter.
Why does a $5500-ish camera have to match or exceed a $13,000 EX3, or a $6500 EX1?

[rpmnava]

I saw it today at NAB, its 4300ish, Solid state and meant as an companion or B camera to the HVX 200.

I was half looking for Barry this morning when I was there....I will say this, Any vendor that had a display or demo had an EX!. there must have been hundreds... No kidding!

Nava

[Steve Shovlar]

OK Barry perhaps not the EX3 but certainly the EX1 is the main rival to the HVX, ragrdless of it costing a little more.

And I agree with Doondoon. I use the EX1 every week at our local speedway club filming from the centre green as rider hurtle around the track at 60 MPH. A perfect opportunity for the rolling shutter issue to raise its ugly head. But I haven't seen it. Again if I analysed each frame it migh be there, but in truth its not worth worrying about.

Anyway a bit off topic so what's the news regarding a new camera from Panasonic? When is it out and whats the spec?

[ilauzirika]

I saw it today at NAB, its 4300ish, Solid state and meant as an companion or B camera to the HVX 200.

Are you talking about the HMC or the HPX???

[mule ferguson]

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/prModelDetail?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&itemId=240664&modelNo=Content04102008125519917&surfModel=Content04102008125519917:laugh:
See here.

Mule

[Barry_Green]

OK Barry perhaps not the EX3 but certainly the EX1 is the main rival to the HVX, ragrdless of it costing a little more.
The EX1 is the main rival, yes. And "a little more" is about 30% more, which is a substantial amount.


A perfect opportunity for the rolling shutter issue to raise its ugly head. But I haven't seen it.
Actually, that's not really much of a circumstance at all to see rolling shutter. Try mounting the camera on that car, and then you might see it.


Anyway a bit off topic so what's the news regarding a new camera from Panasonic? When is it out and whats the spec?
The 170, the 150, and the new VariCams are the big announcements. I'll try to find out more; the only thing I know so far is "coming this fall" for the 150/170.

[rpmnava]

the 150

[ilauzirika]

the 150

:cry:, I was starting to dream. I thought you were talking about the hpx170 being 4200ish.

[Steve Shovlar]

So no new camera then to challenge the EX1. Panasonic have lost ground here and it's very disappointing that they haven't at least said a new better version of the HVX is coming out, with 1/2 inch chips, better LCD, flip fuction, great low light, full 1920 x 1080, etc etc.

The HVX came out and stole a good march on Sony's efforts of the ZU1, but Sony came back with all guns blazing have have basically "kicked butt". And now we get no real reply from Panasonic to up the anti. A shame and missed opportunity.

We don't want a dumbed down B cam or a tweaked HVX200A. We want an HVX300 which has all the EX1 has and more.

[Luis Caffesse]

We want an HVX300 which has all the EX1 has and more.

Then get the HPX500
You get a little more, and you pay a little more.

[rpmnava]

So no new camera then to challenge the EX1. Panasonic have lost ground here and it's very disappointing that they haven't at least said a new better version of the HVX is coming out, with 1/2 inch chips, better LCD, flip fuction, great low light, full 1920 x 1080, etc etc.

The HVX came out and stole a good march on Sony's efforts of the ZU1, but Sony came back with all guns blazing have have basically "kicked butt". And now we get no real reply from Panasonic to up the anti. A shame and missed opportunity.

We don't want a dumbed down B cam or a tweaked HVX200A. We want an HVX300 which has all the EX1 has and more.

In my opinion, as misguided as it may be.....They both have their place in certain markets. While the Sony has 1/2 chips a very pretty image and delivers an outstanding picture with very little tweaking , I consider it more of a run and gun news type camera... It is still HDV, has rolling shutter etc.

The HVX delivers a killer picture but takes much more knowledge and tweaking, In my opinion it is more of a controlled environment unit. Great for commercials, indies and talking heads.

In my world of motor sports , the HVX is harder to use..not very forgiving. It takes me alot longer to get those clean perfect shots. When I use it for talking heads and locked down in the studio as far as Im concerned for the money there isn't a better camera.

I'm sticking with the HVX 200's and am looking into a 500 for an "A" camera. But I also have Sonys in my tool box...Too bad mixing codecs is such a pain.

Nava

[Steve Shovlar]

Then get the HPX500
You get a little more, and you pay a little more.

I think the EX1 is better than the HPX500, with its 1440 x 1080 and although its got 2/3" chipset its still not as good in low light.

Plus its a shoulder mount camera and I don't want one those if I can help it.

[Steve Shovlar]

In my opinion, as misguided as it may be.....They both have their place in certain markets. While the Sony has 1/2 chips a very pretty image and delivers an outstanding picture with very little tweaking , I consider it more of a run and gun news type camera... It is still HDV, has rolling shutter etc.

The HVX delivers a killer picture but takes much more knowledge and tweaking, In my opinion it is more of a controlled environment unit. Great for commercials, indies and talking heads.

In my world of motor sports , the HVX is harder to use..not very forgiving. It takes me alot longer to get those clean perfect shots. When I use it for talking heads and locked down in the studio as far as Im concerned for the money there isn't a better camera.

I'm sticking with the HVX 200's and am looking into a 500 for an "A" camera. But I also have Sonys in my tool box...Too bad mixing codecs is such a pain.

Nava


HI Nava, I am sorry but I disagree. With the EX1 you can get an identical image to the HVX200. Its completely tweakable in every aspect.

It's also not HDV, It's 35Mbs EXDCAM codec which is superior to HDV (which it also shoots but I have never used it)

I also shoot motorsport and it works a treat especially at night under floodlights where it gives a stunning image due to its 1/2 chips, with little to no grain. The HVX I had until fairly recently was unusable, completely.

A new Panasonic camera with 1/2 inch chips, no blocking in the darker areas of the image, with perhaps a variable ramping framerate on the fly, added together with an LCD equivelent to the EX1 and perhaps a removable lens, flip facility plus more, and I will be the first in line. As long as its under $10,000.

[David Saraceno]

Steve:

Get the EX1.

If it is better than both the HVX200 and the HPX500, then it's a no brainer.

[Luis Caffesse]

A new Panasonic camera with 1/2 inch chips, no blocking in the darker areas of the image, with perhaps a variable ramping framerate on the fly, added together with an LCD equivelent to the EX1 and perhaps a removable lens, flip facility plus more, and I will be the first in line. As long as its under $10,000.

Everything you describe, except for the variable ramping, is available on the EX-3.
So basically you want the EX-3 with MORE options for under $10K.

I'm with David.
Sounds like the EX-1 is your best comromise for what you want.
Or save up a bit more and go for the EX-3.

[David Saraceno]

I note that BH has the HPX500 at $10K and a $2000 rebate.

What is the best value in a lens for that baby?

[alexdias]

The NAB for Panasonic enthusiasts (like myself) was a big disappointment.

I'm now considering dropping the DVCPRO HD codec and going for the Sony XDCAM EX.

Even with the price drop on the HPX500, there're a big market for smaller pro cameras (like the HVX) and at this point Sony has the better hand. The EX-3 looks very impressive.

At the end it's all about final results and the evidence is starting to mount.

[David Saraceno]

What did you want and what did you want to pay for it?

[rpmnava]

Hi I either mis-wrote or ? But I agree,

the HVX is really bad at night shots and under the lights at a track ;
( the HVX is harder to use..not very forgiving.).

I also agree that the EX1 is way easier to use for Motor sports.
( I consider it more of a run and gun news type camera ).

After speaking to the AJA tech yesterday at NAB ( and maybe I mis-understood) The EX is HDV, and delivers a Mpeg 2 type codec in need of conversion. when delivering to networks, whereas DVCPROHD is acceptable as it lies.

In short what I was trying to say in my previous post was that:

The HVX 200 is better suited for lock down or studio type controlled environments. And the EX1 IS BETTER for run and gun news type shooting at the track. And that mixing codecs suck.

Nava

[Barry_Green]

So no new camera then to challenge the EX1.
Correct. Just like Sony didn't introduce any new camera to challenge the HPX170 or HMC150.


Panasonic have lost ground here and it's very disappointing that they haven't at least said a new better version of the HVX is coming out, with 1/2 inch chips, better LCD, flip fuction, great low light, full 1920 x 1080, etc etc.
No, they instead introduced a 1/3" version with great low light, flip function, etc., etc., at about $2,000 less than the EX1. Maybe not what you want, but more than a few might be interested in it.


The HVX came out and stole a good march on Sony's efforts of the ZU1
Well, basically the HVX and its P2 cohorts basically annihilated Sony. In Europe about 80% of tapeless sales to broadcasters are going P2. In America, about 75% or so. 80,000 units sold, and 840+ broadcasters. Sony's XDCAM has tanked, so they're now trying desperately to salvage something. The EX1 looks to be what they've got that might stick. Time will tell.


We don't want a dumbed down B cam or a tweaked HVX200A. We want an HVX300 which has all the EX1 has and more.
YOU want that. The market doesn't necessarily want that (I do, sure, but how many of us are there?) One only needs to look at the XLH1 vs. XHA1 to see where the market is. Sony's moving up the price scale (a $7,000 HDV camera? Huh? A $13,000 EX3? Wha?) Panasonic is moving down the price scale. HD-SDI on a $5700 unit. Waveform and vectorscope on a $4,000 unit. More, for less.

There's two sides to every story. If you want an EX1, there's plenty available. But to say that Panasonic "missed" here is perhaps a tad premature. The market will decide.

[mcgeedigital]

I think the EX1 is better than the HPX500, with its 1440 x 1080 and although its got 2/3" chipset its still not as good in low light.



I have shot with both and would seriously disagree with THAT assessment.

[doondoon]

Then get the HPX500
You get a little more, and you pay a little more.

I think many people want to see the smaller camera form factor though..... a hand held camera, not a shoulder mount. That's one of my favorite things about the HVX or EX1... they're small and relatively inconspicuous but are fairly high quality too.

[Cees Mutsaers]

I agree a little with this and that is why I am still indecive whether to get the HPX170 or the HPX500. A shoulder cam scare some people.


I think many people want to see the smaller camera form factor though..... a hand held camera, not a shoulder mount. That's one of my favorite things about the HVX or EX1... they're small and relatively inconspicuous but are fairly high quality too.

[joe 1008]

I personally love to work with shouldermount cameras. What me scares off is the price. The HPX is still a very high investment. But concerning the strong Euro many europeans might invade Amercia and try to smuggle it through the customs. ("No, I didn´t buy this camera here, I use to shoot my holidays with it, sir.")

[nsoltz]

I'll jump into the fracas.

I love the HPX-170. It is everything I would have designed into the HVX. 6 pin firewire; connections on back of camera; audio controls moved to lower left of camera. No tape deck.

One aftermarket lens maker with whom I spoke was concerned that the 72mm lens diameter (as opposed to 82 on the HVX) might introduce some barrel distortion.

I reviewed the EX-1 for DV Magazine and definitely have a love-hate relationship with it. But I must say the images are sharp, low light is great, the long-GOP codec at 35 mps was more robust than I imagined it would be. I hate the controls and the ergonomics.

Rolling shutter-- I have one example on my site-- www.nedreviews.com

Yes, rolling shutter could be a problem. It did not break the shot on my site.

Red, by the way, has the same rolling shutter potential issues.

Having said all of this, I will very likely buy an EX-3. And I need to know whom to bribe so I can be Scarlet #1 ;)

Ned Soltz

[sarah staar]

I think that a lot of shoulder cams are to heavy to carry around all day.
Thats why i love the hvx200 cams. I also like the JVC HD100 small and light.

Panasonic should bring out a a new HVX the same size as the JVC HD100.

[ilauzirika]

I personally love to work with shouldermount cameras. What me scares off is the price. The HPX is still a very high investment. But concerning the strong Euro many europeans might invade Amercia and try to smuggle it through the customs. ("No, I didn´t buy this camera here, I use to shoot my holidays with it, sir.")

I hope that this being a switchable camera they priced it accordingly, I mean, not 5000$ and 5000€.... something more like 5000$ and 3,132.98€....
I know this won't happen... But if they don't do this the only reason to buy here will be the warranty....

[alexdias]

To compare the HVX or EX-1 with the HPX 500 is a bit of a stretch.
But I have worked with these cameras and the image quality of the 500 (with the Fuji factory lens) is substantially better. I'll put the EX-1 in second, not too far from the HVX.

[alexdias]

I'll jump into the fracas.

I love the HPX-170. It is everything I would have designed into the HVX. 6 pin firewire; connections on back of camera; audio controls moved to lower left of camera. No tape deck.

One aftermarket lens maker with whom I spoke was concerned that the 72mm lens diameter (as opposed to 82 on the HVX) might introduce some barrel distortion.

I reviewed the EX-1 for DV Magazine and definitely have a love-hate relationship with it. But I must say the images are sharp, low light is great, the long-GOP codec at 35 mps was more robust than I imagined it would be. I hate the controls and the ergonomics.

Rolling shutter-- I have one example on my site-- www.nedreviews.com

Yes, rolling shutter could be a problem. It did not break the shot on my site.

Red, by the way, has the same rolling shutter potential issues.

Having said all of this, I will very likely buy an EX-3. And I need to know whom to bribe so I can be Scarlet #1 ;)

Ned Soltz

Really!!!

I was quite disappointed to learn they haven't addressed some crucial weak points from the HVX. The LCD to name one (which btw originated this thread). The smaller lens diameter is another concern.
It seems to me like a light version of the HVX, no tape drive, slight improvement on the image quality, smaller size, a few new connectors a the rest is pretty much the same.
I don't want to be picky or a spoiler and I'm not complaining, I'm just a bit disappointed. I have a lot of money and time invested in P2 and right now I'm considering another change of format.

[boo]

since the hpx-170 is still about 5 months off, is there a chance that panasonic can(realistically) surprise us w/ a higher rez lcd and viewfinder?

[USLatin]

I'd say very likely... or they only changed things they felt like changing and didn't listen to us

[Cees Mutsaers]

That are my thoughts as well:cheesy:



since the hpx-170 is still about 5 months off, is there a chance that panasonic can(realistically) surprise us w/ a higher rez lcd and viewfinder?

[Kholi]

How much more are you guys willing to pay for a High-Resolution on-board LCD in conjunction with the incredible extras Panasonic has thrown in? Speaking on the Waveform, etc.

General inquiry.

[Luis Caffesse]

I'd say very likely... or they only changed things they felt like changing and didn't listen to us

I don't understand why so many people are saying they 'didn't listen'
(and this is being directed in general - not specifically at you USLatinContent)

I mean sure, they didn't give us everything that was asked for - namely the higher res LCD and EVF - but honestly I'm quite shocked as to how much they listened.

Every single feature that is on the 170 is something that was asked for in some way on our 'user requested options' list on this site. The only thing that I've seen so far that is not on that list is the 'horizaontal bar' focus assist, which as far as I"m concerned is a bonus given that they included the histogram HPX500 style focus assist that was asked for.

There were about 60 things on that list - many of which we knew were NEVER going to happen (2/3" chips and AVC-Intra...come on). But out of those that were realistic, they seem to have delivered on about 15 to 20 of them.

Pretty impressive I think.
Not sure what you guys were saying that wasn't listened to - but I definitely feel like Panasonic was listening to me.

[Kholi]

I honestly feel like the major things they had to do to compete with the EX-1 were improve low light sensitivity, increase dynamic range, and improve noise. I'm not exactly sure why the High-Res on-board LCD is such a huge deal but that might be because there's always an on-board strapped to the camera for me (or any camera that I've seen or used.)

They did a lot more than that, including bringing it all home at a projected two-grand LESS than the EX-1. AND it's an existing efficient Codec. It's not gonna be for everyone, but I think it's gonna be a homerun.

[alexdias]

There were about 60 things on that list - many of which we knew were NEVER going to happen (2/3" chips and AVC-Intra...come on). But out of those that were realistic, they seem to have delivered on about 15 to 20 of them.

Pretty impressive I think.
Not sure what you guys were saying that wasn't listened to - but I definitely feel like Panasonic was listening to me.

OK, I did not expected to have a whole list of wishes fulfilled (maybe I did but that's my problem) but to be honest I feel the 170 is a timid progression for such a extraordinary format. At this point Panasonic could have blown away the competition, but in my view they backed-up a few steps.
The HVX170 will surely be an successful product and will fit a certain group just right, but the higher end consumer (just before the broadcast size), moving up from the HVX200, were not really addressed.

[Cees Mutsaers]

300 Usd

[Luis Caffesse]

the higher end consumer (just before the broadcast size), moving up from the HVX200, were not really addressed.

I can see that.
The thing is I don't think Panasonic is viewing the 170 as a 'move up' from the HVX as much as a 'move over' to a strictly P2 workflow.
They've said the price will be comparable to the HVX200a - which tells me they see the cameras as on par.
That's just my analysis of it.

The move up, in their perspective, would be the HPX500.
And considering that you can get an HPX500 body for $8500 right now, it doesn't leave a whole lot of room for another camera level between that and the 200a/170.

But - I can see what you mean - if you were looking for an 'inbetween' then they didn't have much to offer you.
But to be fair - there isn't much wiggle room in their lineup to offer much at that level.

That is where the EX-1 comes into the equation I suppose.

[Kholi]

I can see that.
The thing is I don't think Panasonic is viewing the 170 as a 'move up' from the HVX as much as a 'move over' to a strictly P2 workflow.
They've said the price will be comparable to the HVX200a - which tells me they see the cameras as on par.
That's just my analysis of it.

The move up, in their perspective, would be the HPX500.
And considering that you can get an HPX500 body for $8500 right now, it doesn't leave a whole lot of room for another camera level between that and the 200a/170.



Perfect way to put it, Luis.

[Cees Mutsaers]

incl. lens I think that is very cheap, i think it is more like 16000 usd !!!


I can see that.
The thing is I don't think Panasonic is viewing the 170 as a 'move up' from the HVX as much as a 'move over' to a strictly P2 workflow.
They've said the price will be comparable to the HVX200a - which tells me they see the cameras as on par.
That's just my analysis of it.

The move up, in their perspective, would be the HPX500.
And considering that you can get an HPX500 body for $8500 right now, it doesn't leave a whole lot of room for another camera level between that and the 200a/170.

But - I can see what you mean - if you were looking for an 'inbetween' then they didn't have much to offer you.
But to be fair - there isn't much wiggle room in their lineup to offer much at that level.

That is where the EX-1 comes into the equation I suppose.

[USLatin]

Hey Luis, you want some of this?!? :thumbsup:
I totally agree with you, Pana FTW, I was just saying that IF they don't up the rez of the LCD then they will have avoided doing arguably the most popular request, and BTW I said it was very likely too... so now I will chase you through the forum trying to point out everything you say that is wrong!!! aahah!! oooooh! it's on!

[Mister Big]

I'd pay another $500 for a great HD LCD viewfinder. It's worth a lot to me to be able to get shots in focus quickly.

[Luis Caffesse]

it's on!

Bring it.
:)

[MikeGunter]

Hi all,

I'm in for the 170; it will go nicely with the HVX200. I just wish I had more change in the jar.

:D

[joe 1008]

The move up, in their perspective, would be the HPX500.
And considering that you can get an HPX500 body for $8500 right now, it doesn't leave a whole lot of room for another camera level between that and the 200a/170.

Right. We don´t need an EX1 copy from Pana, what we need is a HPX500 starters kit for clearly under 15K. Don´t get me wrong, of course I can get an old lens on e-bay and have a HPX500 with batteries and tripode plate for 11K right now. (In Euros something like 7K buying it abroad - almost same price as an EX1 here in Europe!!!) But I think many people are put off by the modular offers of the HPX500. People who started with a DVX or a HVX are used to put their money down and to get a complete camera. It´s a different thing for people who are in business for a long time, already.

[alexdias]

I can see that.
The thing is I don't think Panasonic is viewing the 170 as a 'move up' from the HVX as much as a 'move over' to a strictly P2 workflow.
They've said the price will be comparable to the HVX200a - which tells me they see the cameras as on par.
That's just my analysis of it.

The move up, in their perspective, would be the HPX500.
And considering that you can get an HPX500 body for $8500 right now, it doesn't leave a whole lot of room for another camera level between that and the 200a/170.

But - I can see what you mean - if you were looking for an 'inbetween' then they didn't have much to offer you.
But to be fair - there isn't much wiggle room in their lineup to offer much at that level.

That is where the EX-1 comes into the equation I suppose.

Luis, I believe you got it and I respect your analysis.
I put the 500 in a separate category. With lens, batteries, tripod and a few more accessories with the rebate a HPX500 package will cost you close to $27K or more. Own experience...

Maybe what I meant was a HVX200 upgrade. The market exist, the success of the HVX and the EX-1 is the definitive proof, so after 2.5 years (considering the schedule release of the 170) I expected a great new product right on that "inbetween".

[alexdias]

Adding to my previous post the move to the HPX500 is not just a question of money. I work with docs and TV shows, most of it handheld and after a few hours your back will be screaming for a lighter camera. Also the intrusiveness of a full broadcast camera is quite different than saying a HVX or EX-1.

I'll stop venting my frustration soon. Right now I'm just trying to figure out how I'm going to decide between a excellent codec/format (DVCPRO HD) with desired hardware/image quality the EX series.

[Cees Mutsaers]

concerning buying the hpx500 in the US. Does the US have 220 V or 110 V??
If 110 V what about charging the batteries?



Right. We don´t need an EX1 copy from Pana, what we need is a HPX500 starters kit for clearly under 15K. Don´t get me wrong, of course I can get an old lens on e-bay and have a HPX500 with batteries and tripode plate for 11K right now. (In Euros something like 7K buying it abroad - almost same price as an EX1 here in Europe!!!) But I think many people are put off by the modular offers of the HPX500. People who started with a DVX or a HVX are used to put their money down and to get a complete camera. It´s a different thing for people who are in business for a long time, already.

[sarah staar]

I hope the HVX200 time code sync problem "When you sync 2 cameras time code with a firewire cable " is sorted out with this new camera !!!

[ilauzirika]

concerning buying the hpx500 in the US. Does the US have 220 V or 110 V??
If 110 V what about charging the batteries?

Is 110v but if needed you could always buy a voltage converter.
Talking about the charger, charger are usually universal, that means that you can plug it anywhere in the world. (for example, I have a canon battery charger by my side and it says 100-240v 50-60HZ)

[Joseph Stunzi]

I'd pay another $500 for a great HD LCD viewfinder. It's worth a lot to me to be able to get shots in focus quickly.

All you guys saying you want a better LCD! Everyone saying that you'd pay $500-$1000 more to have that. Buy yourselves a proper field monitor. A Marshal, Nebtek, TVLogic, Carrion, whatever!

Then you will start complaining about the financial responsibility of having to do so... Go to ikancorp.com, Buy the V8000W for $499.00, You'll get an 8" LCD, a mounting bracket, the cords, the batteries, everything.

Then you'll start complaining the monitor is not HD and that a true HD monitor is more money.

The way I see it is that Panasonic is doing a stellar job on the new HPX170 and the updated HVX200a. The HPX170 has HD-SDI out, and lots of the things we asked for. And don't go saying you're upset it doesn't have a tape drive!

I'm sure there are minor improvements in the quality of the LCD just as a result of time and the engineering process of cameras. But please stop saying that the HPX170 and the HVX200a are worthless updates and the sort. If you don't like them, go buy another camera then! Oh and if you complain about the price of that other camera, then stop doing so and spend your time making money!

[hotchkiss]

All you guys saying you want a better LCD! Everyone saying that you'd pay $500-$1000 more to have that. Buy yourselves a proper field monitor. A Marshal, Nebtek, TVLogic, Carrion, whatever!

Then you will start complaining about the financial responsibility of having to do so... Go to ikancorp.com, Buy the V8000W for $499.00, You'll get an 8" LCD, a mounting bracket, the cords, the batteries, everything.

Then you'll start complaining the monitor is not HD and that a true HD monitor is more money.

The way I see it is that Panasonic is doing a stellar job on the new HPX170 and the updated HVX200a. The HPX170 has HD-SDI out, and lots of the things we asked for. And don't go saying you're upset it doesn't have a tape drive!

I'm sure there are minor improvements in the quality of the LCD just as a result of time and the engineering process of cameras. But please stop saying that the HPX170 and the HVX200a are worthless updates and the sort. If you don't like them, go buy another camera then! Oh and if you complain about the price of that other camera, then stop doing so and spend your time making money!

Bingo!

[USLatin]

I only say that a lot of people want that, but at no price increase. If you are willing to pay more that I'd say go balls out and get a carrion. The external monitor is the way to go for HD anyway because the size of the LCD prevents from packing enough pixels anyway, and they are no sharing monitor either. So I completely agree with you.

[RE1000]

I think most just wanted a better lcd, but not at a higher cost. You'd think they would've done that, since all the other competitors have better lcd's than the hvx's lcd, which leaves a lot to be desired. (even though it still is usable)

[doondoon]

jstunzi wrote:

"All you guys saying you want a better LCD! Everyone saying that you'd pay $500-$1000 more to have that. Buy yourselves a proper field monitor. A Marshal, Nebtek, TVLogic, Carrion, whatever! "




Lot's of us already have an external monitor (I do)... and I use it under CERTAIN circumstances.

That doesn't change my needing a higher resolution LCD when I'm shooting hand held verite' in an environment where I don't want to look like ROBOCOP with an external monitor mounted in some TOTALLY UNBALANCED AND ERGONOMICALLY RETARDED WAY. This configuration prevents fluid and subtle camera operation more than the crummy standard def LCD does.

[Kholi]

Is it just a matter fo staying small?

It baffles me why the on-board LCD is such a huge deal. I have yet to see, on a professional production, a moment where an on-board LCD or EVF isn't strapped to the unit + multiple cables and wires?

[RE1000]

jstunzi wrote:
That doesn't change my needing a higher resolution LCD when I'm shooting hand held verite' in an environment where I don't want to look like ROBOCOP with an external monitor mounted in some TOTALLY UNBALANCED AND ERGONOMICALLY RETARDED WAY.
Lolz.

If you are in a run and gun situation, it'd be nice to be able to go out with a light bare setup and have a good lcd to focus and such.
It's like anyone's saying a better lcd is a replacement for an external monitor.

[USLatin]

The current LCD is sufficient, but it would be nice to have a bit more to reduce
strain of the eyes and speed things up a bit... just say 20% more would be a
nice noticeable difference.

Or you need a bunch of equipment: long rails, shoulder mount in the middle
battery far on the rear, handles, monitor bracket and the cables (hopefully
neatly routed). You have a sharing monitor, good on the fly focusing
capabilities, you are ready for a MB, add some rails and ready for an adapter,
but now you lost some of the versatility of the form factor.

A bit more definition on the LCD goes a very long way for starting packages
and many types of projects. A few bare HVX's with a sound guy can get
some decent work.

[DC]

How much more are you guys willing to pay for a High-Resolution on-board LCD in conjunction with the incredible extras Panasonic has thrown in? Speaking on the Waveform, etc.

General inquiry.

I'd pay as much as $300 more. But I really don't see the LCD as a deal-breaker. For me, I use a 7" Marshall and often a 20" monitor on a stand. I use the HVX200's onboard LCD for text display. That's about all. But having a sharp, crisp LCD bulit-in would certainly be welcome for situations where I may be without anything else.

Personally, I like what they did with the HPX170. In fact, that will likely be my next camera upgrade. Sure, bigger chips would've been AMAZING. But we still get a beautiful upgrade. I'll use my Brevis 35mm adapter with it and continue to produce great looking footage! :)

[Joseph Stunzi]

They do make lightweight run and gun external LCDs. They just aren't very prominent. I mean look at the LCD on the RED. People say it's good for inside work but sucks for anything outside. You don't see REDusers complaining about it!

If you're looking for 20%, I think you'll find 20% in the new models from Panasonic. This doesn't mean they're going to necessarily publicize that fact. The 200a was the only HVX to be seen at NAB. No real way to compare them side by side

[USLatin]

I have been wondering if what you guys have been saying about the new 200a and 170 is fact or not. I am not questioning it, just asking, cause I just haven't checked or looked much since I very likely won't be upgrading to them. So I have been kinds listening and catching just the main facts. But no upgrade for me, at least not this year. Well... who knows...

[DC]

Roberto! Where ya been hiding?? :)

Yeah, your current HVX200 is still an awesomely capable camera. For myself, I think an upgrade is due soon. It's looking like an HPX170 is in my future. :)

[USLatin]

hehe... you noticed I was gone?
I got very sick (still am) to the point that getting on the computer was an insanely dreadful task, I hope I am getting better, at least enough to pester you fellas

I need the gadgets, and I can go for it, but first I want some payed gigs... the longer I wait the cheaper some stuff gets but I need to at least get the RR MB with a 1/4 ND and a polarizer to use the HVX at it's full 1/3 imagers' potential, and a Carrion to make it easier and more accurate

I think for actual projects I can rent what we are missing

Right now I am wondering if I should develop my sound package, add a 744T or even just a 702T and try to get gigs like so, rent some Lectros when needed

either way I keep honing my skills and developing two features I am writing... at least one will get produced maybe even the following winter

170's with Ultimates would do the trick and then some... but shooting at below freezing (hopefully :)) demands two rigs...

[DC]

Wow, yeah . . . I noticed! I haven't received a response from you until just now. Sorry to hear you've been sick. I hope you feel better, bro.

We'll have to catch up via a phone call soon. I want to hear more. And also share with you my latest projects.

[USLatin]

Cool bro, TTL

[Jan_Crittenden]

I'd say very likely... or they only changed things they felt like changing and didn't listen to us

I would have to say your perception is totally off. We put in what we could and I could go through the list and point to various ideas and say this came from there.
As far as the LCD, keep in mind that the entire Thumbnail display is SD and thus, we would have to add the cost of re-engineering that display so that it was HD in order to make a higher pixel count. You don't even want to know the price.

That said, we added two addition focus assist functions, one is on the HPX3000, the 2000, and the 500, and the new P2 Varicams. I mean I can focus the HPX500 in a heartbeat with the Histogram, it is so easy.

There are many functions on this camera that are very smart and can help anyone that is coming into the P2 workflow and not have to deal with long GOP and a lot of compression.

Best,

Jan

[USLatin]

Jan, you are the second to misread that... I thought it was "very likely" you would, and by that I meant do something about it... I was wrong in thinking it would be more pixels though
I am glad to hear that and not surprised as you guys have lead the pack on listening and responding

[siniarch]

Hi Jan,

Just wanted to say Hi on DVXuser.

It was a pleasure meeting you at NAB.

If you don't remember, I met you with Barry Green while he was showing us the HPX170. and I was the one showing you my monitor. (the Carrion) and pestering you to put a flip option on the menu, the pass through to a monitor or hd-sdi when feeding back firewire from a firestore, and I can't remember what else.

In case I didn't say it then, I just want to thank you for listening to us and for getting so many features on the HPX170. it really is amazing. Cant wait to see it.

Also, send me a PM, I wanted to talk to you about something that was brought up to me by one of my customers. Thanks.