New HVX?

[Jackson Miller]

So are they planning on making a new upgraded HVX? I think I read somewhere it was going to be released at NAB which, correct me if I am wrong, started today. So why haven't I read anything about this on the forums? Isn't this kind of a big deal? What sort of upgrades can be expected and when can I expect stores like B and H to get them in stock? I was about to buy an HVX but I will hold off if the new version is about to come out though. What type of prices are we talking about?

I really hope I'm not wrong and If I am, sorry. I'm just excited at the prospects of an even better camera. So what's the news?

[William_Robinette]

I think there was something said about it possibly happening but the show floor opens 9am on Monday. That is when you will start to see news like this come in.

[Jason Miller]

any idea what fuji will be selling their p2 cards for?

[Jackson Miller]

No way! so other companies will sell P2 cards now? I bet they will be a lot cheaper.

[wgzn]

i wonder if the "MUST MOVE" titled posting a few threads down from panasonic authorized dealer spec comm might give us a possible hint to a new product coming out...???

[Jackson Miller]

I sure hope so. And I hope the new model has significant upgrades. But is the price gonna be over 6 grand? I don't know if I can afford that. When the DVXa was released did it retail for more than the normal dvx did about a month earlier? This would be a good indicator for predicting the new HVX's price.

[wgzn]

well, considering that existing on the shelf HXV's are still retailing for like $5k i cant imagine an "upgrade" hitting for less than $7 or $8 k...
especially considering that the main upgradeable areas are bigger chips, better low light performance and interchangeable lenses... which is kinda already the realm of the hpx500...

[Jackson Miller]

Well I guess it would be worth saving up for if it had those features. But do you really think they will go with interchangeable lenses? That would be amazing.

[wgzn]

NO. and thats kind of my point. and this is where i get confused. you have the HVX and the HPX. one is about $5k and the other starts at about 2.5x that. i dont know how much of a market there is between them and what value it would be for panasonic to deploy an intermediary between them... but im new to the panasonic family and dont know historically what separated a dvx100a from a dvx100b so i may be fullacrap!

ladies and gentlemen - i give you the HQX350 - hahahahaha!

interchangeable lenses might be the trick. a la the jvc hd100 line (which might KILL the thriving adapter market) OR more sensitve chips. but more than either of those and you start getting into product overlap and at least in my opinion [in this market] thats just not enough to justify another build.

[Barry_Green]

Interchangeable lenses does nothing to the adapter market. There's a reason that Letus is developing a $5,000 relay lens just so the HPX500 can use an adapter.

The differences between the DVX100 and 100A were a lot of small software features, but not really any hardware differences. The price went up $200 when they went to the 100A. When they went from the 100A to the 100B the price stayed the same, and lots of new software features were added, but no real hardware change other than them eliminating lead (to comply with RoHS).

If there's to be an upgraded HVX to an HVX200A, I would expect minor changes. If there's to be significant changes I'd expect it to be a different model (like an HVX220 or HVX250 or something).

[Jason Miller]

I'd be happy if the hvx200a_b whatever has a stronger base plate and top grip screws,

but if forced to guess I'd be it would simply be programming issues like Barry said, maybe they add a codic that doesnt put the I in interlaced.

true 1080p without getting rid of the fake lines would be nice. not like I'm gonna buy one anytime soom, I love me enterprise with no damned A.B.C or D on it.

Jason

[steadicamsteel]

I've just tried placing an order with a Panasonic supplier here in the UK and they've said they can't supply the HVX-200 as it's now been superceded by the HVX-201.

They can't give me a price or spec until next week and the units won't be shipping until the end of April.

[Justyn]

hmmm... hope that's not bollocks. that would be sweet.


personally I'd settle for an upgraded LCD, ability to input all 4 channels of audio, ability to use the HVX to feed HD to a monitor, maybe a few other small tweeks, but keeping the same form factor

[femmedirector]

According to Videography mag, Panasonic is releasing the AGHMC150 and HPX3000. The lower end model will "use a more efficent compression code: AVCHD based on MPEG4 AVC/H.264 high profile encoding. This will double the HD capacity of each data card. It comes with a 28mm Leica Dicomar wide angle zoom lens with built in optical image stabiliation and records 1080i and 720p at 13Mb/s. A highter bit rate model is expected in the future....

However, sONY is the one making waves...they are releasing a model camera which records 1080i on tape and on an internal card simultaneouly making it easier for back-up. plus this camera- known as the HVR-Z7U which will beat the current PMW-EX1 in recording low light. Supposedly it will record in light as low at 1.5 lux.......I am personally moving over to the SONY.

[Joseph Stunzi]

I think Panasonic is going to make waves! Keep in mind Barry probably already knows! He has to be very careful. Those stupid NDAs they make him sign :)

We'll all know in less than 24 hours

[femmedirector]

Well...with more reading I found that the new Panasonic can record HD on SD cards..wow! no more expensive P2.

Sadly, it is going to be a little behind the SONY sales if it doesn't move up. Panasonic supposedly wants to release it in FALL 08 and SONY is releasing their camera with better low light and the compact flash recording capabilities asap...

[William_Robinette]

Well...with more reading I found that the new Panasonic can record HD on SD cards..wow! no more expensive P2.

Sadly, it is going to be a little behind the SONY sales if it doesn't move up. Panasonic supposedly wants to release it in FALL 08 and SONY is releasing their camera with better low light and the compact flash recording capabilities asap...

You are talking about two very different cameras aimed at two different markets. The HMC is NOT an HVX replacement. It is a DVX replacement.

[Clark]

The Sony Z7U and the EX1 have been available for a little while. Perhaps what you read was a typo. The EX1 is clearly the low-light leader above and beyond the Z7U. This makes sense due to it's larger 1/2" CMOS chips.

Getting back on topic, the DVX100A was a worthy upgrade for only one feature, the manual/auto focus while shooting 24P/A. I felt the DVX100B fell far short in light of the fact that it STILL did not include a 16:9 chip.

I would gladly pay $1500 more for an HVX200A (or HVX300) with a:

- Full raster 720P chip, like the HD100, or 1080P chip like the EX1
- better LCD, like the EX1 or the Red One LCD
- the ability to shoot AVC-Intra, AVCHD or QuickTime HD on the P2 Cards
- the ability to shoot HDV in the tape drive

I'm a pipe dreamer.

[JohnT]

Guess we will have to wait til Monday to see what Panny reveals.
Sony just announced a...http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=174

[Justyn]

manalive.. That's Great. Got to love how Sony will stick it whether consciously or unconsciously to their own buyers. I'd be so pissed if I had bought the EX1 now. LOL. That looks like a cool camera and I like the drive thing at the bottom. I wonder how many EX1s they'll be selling now....?

[Steve Shovlar]

I hope Panasonic have somthing to offer. The news today of the Sony EX3 is going to be hard to compete with.

We need competition in the marketplace to bring down prices. If nothing radical is announced the EX1 and new EX3 could dominate.

[JohnT]

I see they took the pic down from the link posted earlier.

[Postmaster]

Just got that from the grape wine (err... actualy from the DVInfo forum)


Hi guys I've just come back from panasonic training session and this is what I got told by the reps.
The HVX-200A/202A will be released at NAB and will include AVC-Intra as recording option.

[ProfessorU]

Holy crap. Is that at 100Mbps?

[William_Robinette]

I thought I recalled Barry saying the board for AVC-Intr alone would be over the price on an HVX right now?

[hungrych]

I hope Panasonic have somthing to offer. The news today of the Sony EX3 is going to be hard to compete with.

We need competition in the marketplace to bring down prices. If nothing radical is announced the EX1 and new EX3 could dominate.

what you really need to worry about is the scarlet.

Gahh I can't wait to see it!

[Indywannabe]

What exactly does AVC-Intra buy you (even at 100mbps) vs. DVCPROHD?

Other than it's more efficient for P2 card storage, is the image quality better? (even given that it is 1920 x 1080 vs 1440 x 1080)

[ftbt]

The April 14, 2008 issue of "TV Technology" magazine contains a Panasonic P2 HD insert. The HVX200 is listed as the HVX200A. The description is: "This remarkable camcorder features all the fabulous features and benefits of the HVX200, plus improved progressive 3-CCD imagers and a DSP that increases sensitivity, while lowering noise and smear. A new 13X zoom lens provides a wide 30mm viewing angle ..."

The insert also shows the AG-HPX170 Fully Solid State, 1/3" 3-CCD Handheld Camcorder. The description is: "This smaller, more powerful, go anywhere DVCPRO HD camcorder offers a wide angle Leica Dicomar lens, two P2 slots for continuous recording, HD-SDI and IEEE 1394 interfaces, NTSC/PAL switchable, a time/date stamp function, and more variable frame rates than prior P2 HD handhelds. It comes with our 5-year limited warranty."

[Jason Miller]

oh man that sucks, I mean its great for those who will buy it, but for those of us poor hvx users it sucks

[William_Robinette]

You "poor" HVX users actually have HVX's. Stop crying, it technology.

[arrestthisman]

I wonder how much of an upgrade it will be. If the image quality is night and day, I think a lot of us will be upgrading. If not, hmmm....

I personally can't wait for monday. Scarlett and the new HVX... I'm betting they will be very different animals, though.

[Beat Takeshi]

Wow, this Monday already? Time flies.

[Jason Miller]

Hey William, haven't you learned the world revolves around me. there for I and I alone should have the top of the line tech.

kidding, but I was hoping it would be another year or so before I had to lower my rental rates do to newer cameras.

Jason

[Mister Big]

I'm guessing they'll split the HVX into two -- one a tape version to replace the DVX, and the other an all-solid state version to make a lighter, smaller package.

[Jason Miller]

why would they replace the dvx, I mean its a great camera, but ntsc is out the door, once the roll over is finished, there will be no more broadcasting of ntsc everything will have to be hd, soon you will no longer be able to buy ntsc tvs, for a while tvs will have both as they do now, but once all stations nationwide start hdtv the dvx is done, and I believe the roll over date keeps getting pushed back it was originally set for 09 now the 09 date is only for digital, I think ntsc will still be transmitted over the airwaves for a while longer.

Jason

[Barry_Green]

Wrong. There will be plenty of broadcasting of SD. There is not now, nor has there ever been, nor will there ever likely be, a mandate that the USA go to HD.

The changeover in February is to digital broadcasting, not to high-def broadcasting.

[Justyn]

totally right Barry, but it will be a mess for those people who get their signal through antenna. My bro works for the local fox station and they haven't even got the specs, or the box or any real info. He thinks it will be a real mess, unless you are on cable or Direct TV.

It's just a digital signal but not HD.

[Jason Miller]

hmm I thought it was an FCC mandate, either way, I still don't believe sd is long for this world. I think within the next 5 years sd will fade away and within 10 years sd will be a think of the history books. but thats my opinion.

soon finding your favorite film on dvd will be as hard as finding it on vhs, now that blue ray has won, stations are going digital the bandwidth is there, I honestly believe that within the next 5 years their really will be no comersial use for sd.

so I doubt any company including panasonic is going to dump money into a high end sd camer.


Jason

[Joseph Stunzi]

It's an FCC mandate to switch over from analog to digital. That doesn't constitute a switch from SD to HD. It means that anyone who received their TV via a antenna signal will have to switch over to digital sources such as cable and satellite

[arrestthisman]

Jason, I don't know how right you are. Plenty of people are still using VHS, for example. Granted it is a significant minority. But it is not dead.

SD is something like 3/4 a century in the making. (More? Barry would know. So would wikipedia but I'm too lazy to look it up right now.) I don't think it will be dead any time soon.

Progressive SD looks very good blown up to 720p, IMO.

But Moore's Law and all, you could be right. However, I'm going to bet that SD and HD will co-exist for a long time now. Longer than we all think.

[Davthedvdman]

Wrong. There will be plenty of broadcasting of SD. There is not now, nor has there ever been, nor will there ever likely be, a mandate that the USA go to HD.

The changeover in February is to digital broadcasting, not to high-def broadcasting.


Remember the internet delivery still going to have SD life. I plan to upgrade my Sony PD 150 and 170 to a HDV similar. I have a HVX planning on another or a HPX 500. I am sending those two cameras to internet channels.
SD still has life.:love4:

[Barry_Green]

soon finding your favorite film on dvd will be as hard as finding it on vhs, now that blue ray has won
Soon?

I don't remember the exact numbers, but I believe that it's something like that more copies of a new release movie are sold on standard-def DVD, on the first day of release, than have been sold of all titles of HD-DVD and blu-ray combined since those formats came into existence.

As long as we're making predictions, I'll go on record: Standard-def DVD will be with us 5 years from now as the vast majority format that movies are delivered on, and will still be sold and supported 10 years from now. Blu-ray, on the other hand, will never catch on as a mass market product. It'll be supplanted by either online video distribution, or some new alternative format such as a "red ray" from Red, or some high-def red-laser alternative from the Chinese manufacturers (who are currently shut out of blu-ray manufacturing).


so I doubt any company including panasonic is going to dump money into a high end sd camer.
That day's already come and gone. Nobody's spending any money to develop SD cameras anymore. But that has no bearing on end-user distribution I mean today we're shooting HD and delivering on standard-def DVD, tomorrow we'll be shooting HD and delivering on quarter-VGA youtube, and this situation is gonna continue for a long, long time. The only people who are going to be reaching a mass market with HD distribution are the major networks. For the rest of us, it's standard-def DVD or internet distribution and that won't change for the next few years at the earliest.

[John Caballero]

The federal government is giving out up to two $40.00 vouchers per household to be used towards the purchase of a digital to analaog converter box that receives the signal over the air for people with non-digital televisions and no cable or Direct TV.

[florisvaneck]

Still, although we deliver in SD, it is better to shoot in HD. In 10 years, you can sell your content again as new as it is in HD quality. And I think you are wrong about Blu-Ray. It will be the last major physical medium, but it will succeed. The other alternatives you mention are not ready yet and Blu-Ray is getting more popular. In most countries in Europe, HDTV penetration is around 50% already.

I agree that online distribution will be the next major thing.

[Tzedekh]

What exactly does AVC-Intra buy you (even at 100mbps) vs. DVCPROHD?

Other than it's more efficient for P2 card storage, is the image quality better? (even given that it is 1920 x 1080 vs 1440 x 1080)At the same data rate (100 Mbps), it can do 10-bit 4:2:2 at 1,920 x 1,080, making it nearly as good as standard D-5 (that is, not including the 2,048 x 1,080, 4:4:4, wavelet-based add-on).

[Mister Big]

Still, although we deliver in SD, it is better to shoot in HD. In 10 years, you can sell your content again as new as it is in HD quality. And I think you are wrong about Blu-Ray. It will be the last major physical medium, but it will succeed. The other alternatives you mention are not ready yet and Blu-Ray is getting more popular. In most countries in Europe, HDTV penetration is around 50% already.

I agree that online distribution will be the next major thing.

Blu-ray may gain additional acceptance as a storage and archiving medium. It's definitely a race to see if blu-ray will gain critical mass as people buy big flatpanel TVs and want to see HD movies, or if on-demand or other downloadable content will beat it. I wouldn't bet anything on anything.

[Cees Mutsaers]

Wil the HVX200A be immediately available so there will be no gap untill the HPX170 will hit the marcket. What else is the point of having the HVX200A?

Will the hpx170 besides all the improvement (wider lens, higher zoom, improved S/N etc.) have all the bells and wistles of the HVX200 ?

Barry did they say anything about the LCD/EVF of the HPX170 ?

There is only a mock-up at the NAB? so no working unit?

[Barry_Green]

Wil the HVX200A be immediately available so there will be no gap untill the HPX170 will hit the marcket. What else is the point of having the HVX200A?
They didn't say. But the 200A is for those who want a transition from tape up to HD, whereas the 170 is for someone who doesn't need tape. So it might be an immediate transition (some of the posts from others here have said as much, but I don't recall Panasonic announcing a timeframe for 200A availability).


Will the hpx170 besides all the improvement (wider lens, higher zoom, improved S/N etc.) have all the bells and wistles of the HVX200 ?
I don't know for certain but I'd be very willing to bet that the chipset will be the same among them, meaning yes the 170 would have the lower noise and better low light. As for the lens, the 170's lens is just plain wider than the 200A's. The 200A is 4.2mm, the 170 is 3.9mm. And the 170 will have more bells & whistles (at the bare minimum it'll have 20 frame rates instead of 12, it'll have a six-pin firewire port, HD-SDI output, three ND filter positions, an 8-position scene file dial, and it'll be smaller and a lot lighter and will use 72mm filters and accessories instead of the HVX's 82mm.)


Barry did they say anything about the LCD/EVF of the HPX170 ?
Not a word. But the prototype looked like it has the same LCD as the existing models. Keep in mind though that this unit won't hit the market for something like six or 8 more months, so it may have the same LCD or there's plenty of time for it to perhaps improve.


There is only a mock-up at the NAB? so no working unit?
There was a mock-up at the press conference. NAB itself hasn't opened yet. That happens tomorrow morning.

[John Caballero]

So many new offerings. So many choices! So confusing! My God! All basically the same but different. How the hell can someone choose anymore? You pick one then you might feel you are loosing something with the other one. You pick the other one….ahhhh…. forget it for tonight, let’s go to bed…. Go again at it in the morning…