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View Full Version : Sony F35 - 35mm CCD, 10-bit, 4:4:4 and PL Mount



Kwan
04-09-2008, 01:29 PM
Highly Overpriced as usual.. and all you need to do is buy some of these (LOL).
http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/minisites/cinealta/post/index.shtml

So finally Sony is introducing the F35 camera system ($250,000 + I guess), which features a 35mm CCD image sensor, 10-bit, 4:4:4 recording and a PL mount. Dynamic range is extended to from 700 percent to 800. The depth of field on the new camera is equal to that of a film camera. The F35 camera will be available late in 2008.

Can anyone please translate the following link,

http://www.sony.jp/CorporateCruise/Press/200711/07-1120/

Kholi
04-09-2008, 06:11 PM
How is it over-priced?

mcgeedigital
04-09-2008, 06:37 PM
That thing is so big it has its own zip code...damn!

davide
04-09-2008, 09:23 PM
Cool, I wonder how this stacks up with the Genesis.

Barry_Green
04-09-2008, 09:38 PM
The Genesis is the Panavised version of the F23, as I understand (23 = 2/3" chip). The F35 is a model above that (35 = 35mm sized chip).

SPZ
04-10-2008, 12:09 AM
Probably they'll come up with a Panavised f35...

davide
04-10-2008, 12:56 PM
According to the Panavision site the Genesis has a super-35mm sized sensor: http://www.panavision.com/product_detail.php?maincat=1&cat=36&id=375&node=c0,c136,c137

I thought that the Panavision had been out longer than the F23.

Kwan
04-10-2008, 01:38 PM
This is interesting

matthew77
04-14-2008, 05:05 AM
According to the Panavision site the Genesis has a super-35mm sized sensor: http://www.panavision.com/product_detail.php?maincat=1&cat=36&id=375&node=c0,c136,c137

I thought that the Panavision had been out longer than the F23.


True. The Genesis has a super 35 sized chip and was out long before the F23.

It has a standard Panavision 35mm lens mount.

Most of the electronics in the Genesis (including the chip) are made by Sony - but the idea was that there would be a partnership for making these high-end cameras. Sony has gone off on their own with the F23 and F35.

Erik Olson
04-17-2008, 07:40 AM
Panavision showed them the door. Maybe they should let Panasonic in instead.

They use striped pattern on the 12.4MP sensor, just like the Genesis. This is reportedly how they get that amazing dynamic range.

e

Luis Caffesse
04-17-2008, 08:01 AM
They use striped pattern on the 12.4MP sensor, just like the Genesis. This is reportedly how they get that amazing dynamic range.

Can you explain, roughly, how that works Erik?
I'm not familar with that tech.

Hans Moleman
04-17-2008, 10:51 AM
I sat with this thing at NAB. Absolutely insane

Erik Olson
04-17-2008, 05:57 PM
Everything in here is what I've been told directly by Panavision or gleaned from their publications. I'm not an engineer, but here is what I understand.

Panavision has true non-Bayer 12.4MP (5760x2160) 4:4:4 RGB sensor in Genesis, which effectively means that each color is recorded at full resolution. Three columns each, two unit cells high in each resulting macro block.

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/4021/1208481053.jpg

The sensor is, according to their newer literature configured in a color-stripe pattern, where the RGB cell units are stacked up on top of each other. They won't confirm it, but I've been told that the top and bottom unit blocks do not expose equally - theoretically expanding dynamic range like internal, always-on bracketing right on the sensor.

Also, their A/D converter uses something called Panalog which retains more of the grayscale values between black and max white as this single CCD RGB sensor originally sees them.

e

The Sarlacc
04-21-2008, 12:12 PM
The Genesis is the Panavised version of the F23, as I understand (23 = 2/3" chip). The F35 is a model above that (35 = 35mm sized chip).

The Genesis is a full size chip. And its a huge heavy beast. I'm not in love with it unless it sits on a stage on a dolly. I hate carrying them around especially with an 11-1 hanging off the front.

The F23 is 2/3 and simply a joy to use.

I was one of the people brought into to work with the F35 when the engineers hand delivered 2 of them to LA. All that night. snow and horse footage. Not sure if thats what they showed at NAB or not, but thats what I was out there helping with shooting. The camera looks amazing, and since the F23 is a joy, so is the F35. And I loved the engineers coming to me and others wanting design feedback for more changes.

And I say all this as someone who just a year ago thought Sony had become a garbage pit. But with the F23/35 and the new HDCAM EX cameras...they seemed to have started to learn how to get it right.

Erik Olson
04-21-2008, 01:46 PM
Sarlacc,

Did anyone talk about the new sensor on the F35 as it pertains to Genesis? Are they akin to each other or, perhaps, the same imager?

e

The Sarlacc
04-21-2008, 04:17 PM
Sarlacc,

Did anyone talk about the new sensor on the F35 as it pertains to Genesis? Are they akin to each other or, perhaps, the same imager?

e

Sadly, there was no discussion of that.

The Sarlacc
04-24-2008, 05:44 PM
http://www.freshdv.com/freshtv

Scroll down to the F35 blurb, They interview Patel, a local LA sony rep...He talks about the chip.

Single CCD striped pattern as mentioned before.

Grug
05-07-2008, 05:33 AM
The bit I like best? How does approximately 14 stops of dynamic range sound fellas?! (assuming they're telling the truth of course). I know I want one!

Grug
05-07-2008, 05:36 AM
Oh, and Sarlacc I caught the demo footage at NAB - it looked gorgeous, so congratulations. I was also very impressed with how seamlessly the F35 footage cut in with the F23.

The Sarlacc
05-08-2008, 03:03 PM
Oh, and Sarlacc I caught the demo footage at NAB - it looked gorgeous, so congratulations. I was also very impressed with how seamlessly the F35 footage cut in with the F23.

Thank you...it was a boy walking up to a barn and then riding horses right? I never saw the final edited footage.

Mattykins
05-08-2008, 04:07 PM
Well it might be a quarter of a million for it - but you need at least half a mil to make it operable. The good part is you don't need the Digiprimes and digizooms for the F35. The 23 is a beast. Quite honestly - I love it. You can get a good cinematic look with it and the digiprimes. But the F23 will still be great for low light and long shots and the F35 will be the forerunner in digital cinema.

Grug
05-08-2008, 07:14 PM
Thank you...it was a boy walking up to a barn and then riding horses right? I never saw the final edited footage.

Yep, that was it. They didn't give you a DVD with finished footage? That's a bit rough.

The Sarlacc
05-10-2008, 12:29 PM
Yep, that was it. They didn't give you a DVD with finished footage? That's a bit rough.

The whole shoot was rough...and I got a call from my usual crew to jump over to a big feature. I took that as my cue to exit stage left.

I was there for everything in the snow, night, and barn. I wasnt there for the ultimate arm horse riding shots, or the horse races.

If I really wanted to see the footage I'm sure I could contact the company and go over there, but I saw what I needed to ;)

Bayne
04-08-2009, 06:53 PM
The Genesis is the Panavised version of the F23, as I understand (23 = 2/3" chip). The F35 is a model above that (35 = 35mm sized chip).


Genesis is a 35mm F35 chip, at least the new ones are.

The body is not big at all. With the SSR-1 attached its about 18" from mount to back, when the SSR-1 is attached on the back instead of the top. With the tape transport on its a lot heavier, but not at all bad.

SPZ
04-08-2009, 07:00 PM
There's a big mistery with this camera that I really need to figure out. It concerned quick pans. I started a thread in the HPX300 and made a fool of myself due to some disinformation I got from a credible source, but I know what I saw, and even though this F35 is CCD, the image skewed when quick panned. I'll have to find a way to try this again, and record some video of it.

Bayne
04-08-2009, 07:02 PM
The actual recorded footage skewed?

Otis Grapsas
04-09-2009, 01:23 AM
Displays can produce skew, delays, tearing etc depending on implementation. Do we have any actual footage that shows the skew?

The sensor is not a typical interline of frame interline transfer CCD, so we can't be sure it has a storage/transfer area/shift register like the others. It's a new design and I haven't seen much information on the way it operates.

The F35 is one of the two cameras I'm aware of that have two key features. 1) True film gamma which gives a camera tremendous perceived dynamic range 2) Natural shadow saturation which gives real colors in shadows instead of grayish tones. Even if it has a little smear, it rocks.

Studio595
04-10-2009, 08:10 PM
woah... 2/3" CCD's... If only Canon caught Sony's drift....

Bayne
04-10-2009, 08:27 PM
woah... 2/3" CCD's... If only Canon caught Sony's drift....


I dont get this....

Studio595
04-10-2009, 08:57 PM
I dont get this....

Eh, i'd like to see canon come out with a camera like the F35 is all :D

Bayne
04-10-2009, 09:23 PM
yeah probably wont happen....

Studio595
04-10-2009, 09:30 PM
A guy can dream can't he? :D

emretufekci
04-11-2009, 12:13 PM
The Genesis was designed by Panavision to be used by panavision accessories but the electronics were contracted out to Sony. Sony Signed a non-compete agreement not to produce 35mm imager cameras in the same built but introduced F23 as it was not a breach. Now that the contract is up Sony unveiled the F35 with better electronics. Panavision is (rumored) working on a new camera.

Kwan
01-14-2013, 04:30 AM
How is it over-priced?
Only five years.... Now you can have this for US$9,000 (lol)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-F35-Cinealta-camera-PL-Mount-RED-ONE-Camera-Panavision-Arri-Alexa-/300844647909?pt=Camcorders_Professional_Video_Came ras&hash=item460bbd05e5

macgregor
01-14-2013, 04:34 AM
You can follow the thread with DVXusers that own a sony F35 here:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?288192-Just-got-a-new-camera

And also for sale one in here:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?300316-Sony-F35&p=1986263550&viewfull=1#post1986263550

Sage
01-15-2013, 07:22 AM
200k to 9k XD

Neat

Adamsenoj
01-15-2013, 04:38 PM
Only five years.... Now you can have this for US$9,000 (lol)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-F35-Cinealta-camera-PL-Mount-RED-ONE-Camera-Panavision-Arri-Alexa-/300844647909?pt=Camcorders_Professional_Video_Came ras&hash=item460bbd05e5

Honestly, this says absolutely nothing really. It is still a high end camera and in many ways with less compromises than most of the current Sony cameras, including the F5. The only thing that can compete is a F65 and still to see F55.

The thing you need to understand is that the huge majority of these cameras were bought by rental houses, who by now have made their money back over and over. With people wanting smaller and cheaper it probably makes no sense for them to keep them since people will now want a F5 (if they want to go cheap) a F55 (if they want to go medium) or F65 if they want to go ultra high-end Sony. The F65 basically replaced the F35. Anybody wanting to go with a high end full sized camera will go with the F65. Same size and 4K. Anybody who wants to go cheaper and smaller wouldn't go with the F35. So for the rental houses it only make sense to sell them. But because they are not a prosumer tool and most people in the market for a high-end camera would go with a new camera, the price is driven down. Since rental houses already made their money, that's fine for them. But they still a VERY high end camera, still make the same image as they did before and that the Genesis does. There are still several primetime shows and features being shot on it everyday and this will be the case for a while. This is a camera that shot huge blockbusters such as Transformers: Dark of the Moon, Tron:Legacy, not to mention Lucas' Red Tails and many others. Can't really say the same for the F3, FS700, C300, C500 etc, which sell for "more" (not really since you don't get batteries, charger, power supply, recorder or LCD/viewfinder with the F35 for this price), just because of market perception.

RieniO
02-22-2013, 04:23 PM
The F35 is a great camera. If I would get one, how do I record its signal if I don't buy a HDCam recorder? Is there a way to record to a SDI/HDMI recorder like the Nano?

Craig W. Bickerstaff
02-22-2013, 09:18 PM
The F35 is a great camera. If I would get one, how do I record its signal if I don't buy a HDCam recorder? Is there a way to record to a SDI/HDMI recorder like the Nano?

If I were you I would go for the SR-R1 SRMemory recorder as it takes solid state media and will clip on the camera just as an SRW-1 tape deck would.

JMtheDP
02-23-2013, 02:49 AM
The F35 is a great camera. If I would get one, how do I record its signal if I don't buy a HDCam recorder? Is there a way to record to a SDI/HDMI recorder like the Nano?

Yes, the camera has a breakout box (called the interface box) which mounts in place of the SR deck. It has dual-link HD-SDI output (only need dual-link for 4:4:4). There's another thread on here with several different setups, but you can attach anything from a blackmagic hyperdeck (lightweight setup, 4:2:2) to a Cinedeck (heavier, 4:4:4).

macgregor
02-23-2013, 07:03 AM
You'll find some info here:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?288192-Just-got-a-new-camera-Sony-F35/page53&highlight=quad

ANd here:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?301802-Why-I-bought-an-F35-instead-of-going-4K-with-the-F5-F55

RieniO
02-26-2013, 11:41 AM
Thanks for the info, guys.