A little High Def TV help here...I'd like to buy one...

[Rick Meyer]

Well, it time I think I take the plunge and go HD. I'm ready. Enter the dilemma. And sorry in advance for the rant...


I have always hated DLP TVs. Too dim. But, MUCH larger screen size which I LOVE. They just never seem as bright or vibrant as an LCD or Plasma. I have a friend who swears I should check 'em out because they ain't the DLP's of yesteryear.

I went to Best Buy to take a look and sure enough the DLP's looked surprisingly good. They were bright and pretty darn vibrant. And for the price, more screen real estate. But, they were looping some sort of HD material. So, of course its going to look good. I wanted to see regular TV but they weren’t set up for it.

So, I head to Circuit City. Now I am REALLY confused. ALL of their TV’s except 1 were hooked up via component. The DLP’s looked horribly dim and unimpressive. The Plasmas in comparison just popped with vibrancy though they weren’t very sharp due to the lousy hook up. What’s confusing to me is that if a DLP has the capability of being vibrant, even with a Best Buy looping DVD, it should be just a bright with regular TV channels right?

CircuitCity did manage to show off the 120hz feature from Sony’s high end LCD stuff with ‘Motion Enhancer’. Yes, it made Pirates of the Caribbean look video-y. But from a High Def and detail standpoint, WOOOOW was all I can say. Holy God sweet hulla baloo. Amazing. The TV was too pricey for me, but amazing nonetheless. CircuitCity also had the Sony KDS-60A3000 which is their high end DLP also with the 120hz de-judder processing. This particular TV has gotten some pretty incredible CNET reviews. Thing is they wouldn’t/couldn’t properly hook up a High Def player. WHAT?

Back to Best Buy. I notice this time around they too have the Sony KDS-60A3000. (http://reviews.cnet.com/projection-tvs/sony-kds-55a3000/4505-6484_7-32468848.html) They were playing Ice Age. It’s a cartoon. That would look good on a 7” black and white TV with rabbit ears. Sheesh. So, I asked if they would throw a Blu Ray disc on there. He said they only have Ice Age open and his manager wouldn’t let him open anything else. ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME??? What is with these clowns? How the heck am I supposed to see what this TV can do??? Sheesh.

So, I guess here is/are my question (s). I want to bite the bullet and get this over with and decide by tomorrow so any opinions would be VERY helpful. If any of you DLP owners could shed some light on this that would be great. How do they look home? With regular channels? The brightness an issue? Do they pale compared to the LCD/Plasma gig? Are they worth this ridiculously long rant?

Mind you, I ventured out tonight to see the 61” Samsung LED Engine slim DLP (http://reviews.cnet.com/projection-tvs/samsung-hl-t5687s/4505-6484_7-32313063.html) in action. Not having to change a bulb is HUGE. But, image is KING. But, no luck. Neither place had this model to see in person. My decision boiled down to these three gems:

Sony KDS-60A3000. Fantastic reviews and 120hz with motion enhancer but you have to eventually change a bulb.

And

Samsung HL-T6187S. Also really decent reviews and LED Engine so no bulb replacement but no 120hz de-judder.

And, I saw a good deal on this one.

Samsung FP-T5084 (http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-fp-t5084/4505-6482_7-32460966.html?tag=prod.txt.1). Reviews are good but considerably smaller screen size. That’s a blow.

Thanks ladies and gents for chiming in….any opinions would be great especially if you have seen these in action or own one!

Rick

[Nic Aragon]

Hey. one problem is that you will NOT get help from any of the retail sales people. A theory on the settings of the DLP sets in circuit city differing from Best Buy? probably because they are trying to dump off the plasma's.

Plasmas are on their way out. im saying that, i said it wouldnt last 3 years ago, and its not lasting. LCD sales are just too good, and the tech is getting better and better.

anyways. im a big advocate still of projection based sets. BUT NOT LCD projection sets. LED DLP and LCoS. LCoS is also known as SXRD by sony and HD-ILA by JVC. only 2 companies i know making them. I did a LOT of research on hdtv tech since its been around, and from my exprience , you usually want to stay away from early generation technological leaps . an example would be the 120hz tv's, they are still new, and most of them do give a really really wierd look to movies, they take away from the film like qualities of some, especially dvd discs.

i stayed away from earliy LCoS sets, and got a really good LCoS set with my HD-56FN97. the reason i didnt go LED DLP, was because it was still new when i got my set, and expensive to boot, relativly.

in any case. i would now recommend an LED DLP set, beacuse of the amazing bulb life, no more rainbows from regular DLP sets. the SSE is very low, (Silk Screen Effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_screen_effect) you can get a great 1080p set for probably under 1500 bucks at 52" plus. 1080p and a decent contrast ratio, along with a nice plethora of inputs, as well as LED DLP are your main things i think to look out for in your set.

the samsung you listed , ive read , is pretty decent, especially at a price around 1400-1500. frys electronics puts it on sale for around that price often. tomorrow is friday, so if you got a frys near you, then id definatly check it out.

again, settings can literally change the quality of a tv's look. and the signals in store are so horrible becasue its being split 50 different ways, you cant be sure what input it is. not sure how bad the settings are screwed up and you really cant trust the sales men, there are agendas sometimes to sell plasmas, or sell lcd's etc... etc.. etc.. to make room for new ones. or even an over zealous employee messing up settings, customers screwing with things.

anyways. an LED DLP will get you probably the best color and picture for your buck, as well as size! 56" and up for under 2k easily if you do some shopping.

i spent a good 3 months deciding on my next hdtv before landing on the JVC HD-56FN97 that i got, and i got a killer steal on it @ 1560 after tax brand new from best buy using one of their 12% off coupons from the email spams. look for one of those for sure.

ok, spent too much time on this, i just got back and watned to relax , hahaha.

good luck though, i mean it.

[Mike McNeese]

I've got a friend that has the exact same Samsung you mention. He got it a while back for $1800. It is surprisingly bright for a projection, but that's with the color and brightness cranked up. If he had it properly calibrated, it'd be difficult to view during the day in a sunlit room. But, for the price/size value, it's a good way to go.

Personally, I'm anti projection. I mean, when you're buying a projection TV, say 47", you're actually buying a MUCH smaller TV, and a projection screen. Direct-view sets, in all cases, is going to be more vibrant, brighter, more accurate, and have less distortion than a projection. I've got a 4-yr old Sony 34" CRT, and I haven't seen another TV out there that can produce a picture like it. But, I'm a snob - I've seen that Samsung, and it's a beautiful big set...for the money and size, I don't think you can do much better!

[Rick Meyer]

This is good info guys. I'm still torn and REALLY dig the specs on the Samsung DLP but the reviews of the SONY are fantastic and I can get the same size SONY for about $300 dollars less.

I just want a TV with the wow factor. I don't want to have to strain to see my set or get use to the lack of brightness. Where this TV will reside, sunlight isn't much of a problem. But the wow factor is what I am looking for...

Well, I feel a little bit better about going with the DLP. Anyone else want to chime in? I'm all ears. Well, eyes...

[mjjason]

First and foremost I recommend reading www.avsforum.com (http://www.avsforum.com). They review every form of tv out there.

Second, never trust what you see in the store as the lighting conditions, the tv settings and the feed vary greatly and will change how the image looks.

Your best bet is to read up and narrow down your selection. Overall, I avoided DLP's because they had issues (bulb life, green color issues, and rainbow effect). 2 years ago I went for a Plasma cause I got a good deal but if I were to buy today I think LCDs are the best you can get.

Panasonic for Plasma and Samsung for LCD seems to be the common thinking. There are other good suppliers but these two seem the most popular.

Also, look at fatwallet.com under the forums section -> Hot Deals. They repeatedly post good deals on TVs from Best Buy and the rest. They have a thread that shows how to buy a 42" TV for 600 bucks through a combination of several deals.

[mjjason]

Here is a direct link to the fatwallet forums:

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals

and here is a direct link to the 42" deal post:

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/768400/

Note this site is great overall. You can save alot of money on deals you would never be aware of on your own.

[Batutta]

I got a 42" Sony rear projection LCD TV around 4 years ago that I'm still very happy with. The bulb is still going strong (and the TV is on A LOT), and it renders HDTV beautifully. It also does a reasonable job with standard def signals, although I still prefer to watch standard def on my CRT. CRT interlacing seems to hide a lot of cable compression artifacts, while progressive TV's seem to heighten them. Anyhow, I think it would be silly to get an HDTV and not invest in HD cable...At the very least get one with a built in ATSC tuner and whip out the rabbit ears. Almost the entire primetime line ups on the major networks broadcast in HD and the quality difference is staggering.

[Erik Olson]

I'd avoid the DLP RP systems if possible. When the globes go, you and you alone are on the hook for them. Mfg. price on these is $175 - $250 for a quartz globe in proprietary module.

LCD and plasma are the way to go. Panasonic does the plasma better than anyone else with 2,000 plus shades of gray in their black to white rendering. I would recommend taking a very serious look at purchasing one of their 720p models at a 30% - 45% savings over the same size 1080p models.

LG also features excellent images, though you must look at the Sony Bravia line if you're serious about LCD. My brother just bought the 50" Bravia as an open box for about 40% off the original price. I think he spent $1200 on it.

Sony has the best "HD Theater-esque" 1080i image in LCD - hands down. I would really be on the fence over the Panasonic plasma though if you're going this way. I find the Sony images a bit harsh, while the Panasonic is much more cinematic. Depends on whether you're watching your Blu-Ray features or want the Sunday game to look its most vivid.

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[Rick Meyer]

$1200 for a Sony 50" Bravia?! Wow. They go for Big Dollars.

The bulb issue no longer exists with the new line of Samsung Led Engine DLP's. This is why I am confused...Id rather eat the bulb problem for a better picture. But, for all I know the Samsung DLP looks fantastic.

I am after the wow factor.

[Nic Aragon]

sounds like everyone still thinks projection sets are like the old kaka CRT sets of 10 years ago. The project sets now adays, when calibrated correclty, sometimes even going into the service menu for the added detail of color adjustments other changes, can pop just as much, and have very good angles of view , horizontal and vertical. Unless you are planning on standing up in front of the tv from 2 feet away, you should never ever have an issue seeing a nice bright picture, especially from an LED DLP, they also have great contrast ratios now making for some nice blacks.

[Rick Meyer]

Nic....so far you are giving me some pretty convincing reviews. You are telling me what I want to hear. I am leaning towards the DLP to begin with because I want size. But not at the cost of image. But if you are telling me that they are near par or on par with LCDs and Plasma then I am keeping those front and center on my list.

That 50" Plasma is attractive because its a good deal but I'd prefer the size of the DLP if the image was comparable. How do the regular channels look? Not just in brightness but in image quality?

Thanks again Nic and all for chiming in....this thread might be helping someone else experiencing the same confusion...

[David Jimerson]

I do think DLP RP has the most film-like image.

BTW, forget either Circuit City or Best Buy or the big-box stores. They don't carry the best models. Find a Tweeter or something similar . . .

[Nic Aragon]

Regular SD images are going to be bad on any HDTV, ive actually seen some pretty bad images consistantly from LCD sets on standard def signals, im not sure why, i never looked into it . Something about it being in SD on HD LCD, makes it really smeary looking, like the response time is down at like 25ms

whats great about DLP is its ultra fast response times, i forget how its measured on dlp, but its not like an LCD where the pixels take time to change from one color to the next, which can create smeary scenes in action. this is usually not a problem on newer LCD sets, but ive seen some new ones that have a long warm up time . odd, but true , im my experience.

the image is definatly ON PAR with LCD sets. the resolution is king here as well, DLP really keeps an amazing image at large sizes. specifically LED DLP because of its great reproduction of colors across the 1920 x 1080 frame. Aa 50" plasma should never be attractive, because its a plasma. ive seen the most "no burn in" touted plasmas with some bad image retention, and the pixel aspect ratios are weird on some of them, its just not worth the hassle and heat of a plasma for a better contrast ratio. unless you are a huge video phile WHO ALSO HAS 10 grand to be picky about their specs, its not worth it to argue over 10,000:1 ratio and snobbing it saying you NEED 100000:1 contrast ratio, etc...

blacks will be black and colors will be bright and crisp in a 1080p LED DLP.

i know exactly what you are going through though, i went through the same thing when i was buying my set. i actually bought 3 sets , trying them in my apartment and then returning them, because it was impossible to see em and test them out in my environment. the TV is the hub of all our entertainment, it plays our music too now. games, videos, even the internet, so it is def important to be happy, and to balance that happiness with price, time spent looking, and trouble. its tough, but hopefully you have an easier decision.

i think main thing, is make sure all the inputs you need are there and if it has a vga port, be aware that the vga port most likely doesnt do high reoslutions. its wierd, but alot of projection sets have dumb vga inputs, dont even know why they are there. if you hook up a computer to it, just use DVD-D to HDMI adapters.

[Rick Meyer]

Thanks again guys.

David...its funny because I was just gonna make a reference to you in this thread. You mentioned Tweeters in another thread and I was going to mention that there is no place like that here. Stinks too. I have to rely on user reviews and the big box stores to view them. Santa Maria is only up and coming. She hasn't gotten here yet. But thank you for chiming in...

Nic, something you said has convinced me to ditch the Plasma altogether and feel pretty good about getting a DLP. The Sammy or Sony...eenie meenie miney moe....

[Nic Aragon]

i live to help, and hope i have :)


...

if i had to choose, id take the Sammy :D

http://www.samsung.com/us/system/consumer/product/2007/12/19/hlt6187sxxaa/HL-T6187S_.pdf

nice spec sheet

[David Jimerson]

Depending on how far you wanna go (and if you're in Santa Maria, CA), it looks like there are some high-end home theater dealers in Santa Barbara, Oxnard, etc..

It might be worth taking a look before you make a final decision.

[Nic Aragon]

Depending on how far you wanna go (and if you're in Santa Maria, CA), it looks like there are some high-end home theater dealers in Santa Barbara, Oxnard, etc..

It might be worth taking a look before you make a final decision.

ya, i agree. check around for sure. i put in a couple hundred miles in search for mine, but im happy and have been for over a year.

[Rick Meyer]

I went with the Samsung Ultra Slim LED engine 56" DLP. I have to say, the brightness is of no conern. It looks vibrant and beautiful at home so thank you for the reassurance Nic...

My complete review is on hold until I get HD programming which won't be until Saturday.

I can say that I am disappointed in the seemingly lack of user image controls. I can't seem to find what I am looking for in the menu and the booklet that came with it mentions NOTHING about a few very important features of this TV. Namely, the LED engine, the 120hz, and the eventual 3D capability...which I see as nothing more than a gimmick but still...no info? At least whet my appetite.

Along with this TV I splurged for a Playstation 3 for the Blu-Ray capabilities. I've watched Spiderman 3 (horrible movie) in Blu-Ray and it was sharp, vibrant, and beautiful but surprisingly there was a decent amount of grain...mostly in the white parts of the image or overblown parts. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I was half in love with it half curious.

So, I guess for any random person who is interested...I will add to this thread as soon as I see what HD programming looks like...

Rick

[Nic Aragon]

Congrats on the purchase.

If you cant find alot of user controls over color's , contrast, etc...you will probably want to check the AVSforum.com and search for your TV. its alot of reading, i probably spent a good 20 hours through the thread for my TV, and youll get involved and learn alot about your set, and even find the best settings other users have used for it, to get the best results.

the PS3 should automatically calibrate itself to your set, when you turn the PS3 on, make sure its hooked up via HDMI by the way, but when you turn the PS3 on, hold down the power button on the PS3 itself for a few extra seconds until you hear the 2nd beep, then let go, and it will go throught the auto setup process with you.

Great choices though by the way, im very sure yuoll have great fun with it all.

this is your TV's thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=827799&highlight=samsung+slim

it has 11k posts, LOL, but start from the most recent and work backwards, most of the first posts are speculation about the tv before it was even out. and you can search that specific thread for stuff like "Settings" or "120khz" or "Audio Settings" and so on and so forth. it should be a great help , like it was to me for my set.

i found my set had hidden menus in the "service menus" that allowed me incredible control over colors and other video settings, so its possible yours will as well.

again, have fun , and get blade runner on blu-ray, i hear the final cut is tremendous looking.

[Elton]

Ric,

Great choice. I found this thread late but wanted to say something about an incredible HDTV value I recently found and jumped on--

Costco has the new 40" 1080p Bravia LCD TV on sale for $1,349. It's a true 10bit LCD panel which can display much deeper color and contrast than any previous consumer LCD TV's.

The detail it can display, particularly in color and whites, is unbelievable. It has 1080 24p compatibility, along with a PC input. Makes a great computer monitor too.

cheers,

Elton