Film School Time - USC vs. AFI vs. Los Angeles Film School

[c.g._eads]

For whatever reason there seem to be a lot of threads related to film school lately. Anyway, here's another one.

I'm trying to decide between these 3. Not that my decision guarantees entry, but because in the case of Los Angeles Film School, I could start right away, whereas with the other two I would have to wait awhile, decisions do have to be made. I know there are a lot of people who think film school is a waste, and I've been one of those people. However film school gives you some things that work very well for someone like me. 1) It forces you to make films (this is big!) 2) It gives you access to equipment for cheap (sort of - I mean you are paying tuition) 3) It can help you find a core group of friends that will be making films for the rest of your lives (aka networking - very important). In the end, I'm a strong believer that school is what you make of it. If you go in there and raid their classes and take advantage of the cheap equipment, you can make out great! If you go in there half-assed, well then sure, film school will be kind of pointless. Having said that, these are my pros and cons of each school. Add more if you like.

AFI
Pros
1) A mentorship program that hooks you up with an established working industry member to guide you.
2) Very hooked up with the entertainment industry. The program eases you into their network of accredited alumni - including working on their films.
3) A very solid curriculum that establishes working together with other people specializing in their own departments (cinematography, writing, editing, production design) so that it's very much like how you will work in the real world.

Cons
1) Expensive.
2) Hard to get into.
3) 2 and a 1/2 year commitment.
4) Would not be able to start until a year from August!
5) You are stuck in whatever specialty you choose. If you're a director, you are not allowed to take cinematography courses. This to me is the biggest problem with the school.

Los Angeles Film School
Pros

1) Start right away.
2) They spend a lot of money on good equipment. They appear to be stacked in that area.
3) 1 year commitment
4) Fairly cheap compared to others.
5) Very flexible with what classes you can take. You get one major and two minors, allowing you to take classes in any area you want.


Cons
1) The school itself is rough around the edges. Just walking around it feels a little ratty.
2) It's a young school. Est. 1999. Who knows if they'll be around in 5 years. Saying you went to Los Angeles Film School will be like saying you went to Chris Film School. Who the hell cares??
3) Anybody can get in - So you get the kind of people who aren't fully dedicated. More slackers. More flakes.

USC (this one I know the least about - going on their tour tomorrow)
Pros
1) Top of the line when it comes to equipment and resources.
2) Top of the line when it comes to professors.
3) Top of the line when it comes to guest speakers/seminars.
4) The contacts you make at a school like USC can be very very powerful.


Cons
1) USC backlash. People feel that students who graduate from there are snotty brats with a huge sense of entitlement.
2) Long commitment (3 years?) - And from what I've been told, the first year you will learn NOTHING new if you have any history in the business. Stuff like, "this is a camera". Which makes the whole 1st year almost a waste.
3) Very hard to get into.
4) Very very expensive.


So, what do you guys think? Anything to add?

[Drew Ott]

Is AFI like a normal college? I thought it just had some sort of graduate program that you apply to get into once you've already been through a 4-year film school.

Another con that I've heard about USC: Apparently outside the campus it is unsafe. I have no idea if this is true and I've never visited it.


edit- Yeah, you have to be 21 to apply for AFI.

[J.R. Hudson]

DVXUSER UNiversity.

[c.g._eads]

Oh, I should've mentioned that I was looking at the graduate programs.

Yeah, USC is in the ghet-o. I think I'll be all right though. The only thing that worries me about these places is their insane application/acceptance ratio. I did NOT set the academic world on fire in high school and college. So if they only accept triple-threats: great application, perfect grades, a piece of work that shows talent, it would be foolish to think that a little luck wouldn't be involved. I mean you got to figure 10 of these guys get in through connections alone. That only leaves 10-14 spots for around a thousand applicants. Even with a great package, you're still struggling to get in.

[Isaac_Brody]

Just gotta point out that the last three Best Director Oscar winners were NYU people. :evil:

[c.g._eads]

Interesting. I think NYU's a great school but would like to stay in Southern Cal.

[J.R. Hudson]

Just gotta point out that the last three Best Director Oscar winners were NYU people. :evil:

Issac

You just me me do a good post on my blog.

http://cineobscure.wordpress.com/ :D :evil:

[Greggl]

I'd recommend a very close look at AFI, if you think you've got a shot at
getting in.

Most of the folks I know that are already working in the industry, in some
capacity and want to direct - and are considering additional schooling
to do this, put AFI at the top of the list.

Secondly, I'm seeing a lot more of an overall industry 'softspot' for
helping out and giving deals to AFI projects. Usually, they do come
with a component of established people attached to the student
projects, that can call on better resources. With the glut of film
edu programs, getting those 'favors' is becoming much harder.

AFI would get my vote.

[c.g._eads]

Yeah, they're probably my first choice. Now the question is, what number choice am I to them?

Also checked out LMU today. Some good-looking women, but I think their program is a little underfunded (although they swore to me that their school was ranked second in the nation to USC, from some major college publication - I don't know if I believe that).

[brianluce]

Oh, I should've mentioned that I was looking at the graduate programs.

Yeah, USC is in the ghet-o. I think I'll be all right though. The only thing that worries me about these places is their insane application/acceptance ratio. I did NOT set the academic world on fire in high school and college. So if they only accept triple-threats: great application, perfect grades, a piece of work that shows talent, .

Yeah it *is* in the ghetto, but the area surrounding campus isn't bad and SC is actually more on the edge of the southcentral, not in the heart of it. It's very close to downtown LA.
You're right, it *is* hard to get in, especially to the grad school. My dad was on the admissions committee there for a few years(grad only). Be ready for people with perfect GRE's. Yes, 1600's. Be ready for Harvard Law grads. Be ready for people with names like "Sinatra". Funny thing though, there are exceptions. I don't think John Singleton had any of that. I have a friend who got into the Peter Stark program that was a computer programer with mediocre grades from a run of the mill school. If you think there's something exceptional about you, like serving in the 101st Airborne in Afghanistan or excelled in some endeavor, or are a deposed governor of a major state, I'd say go for it. Those programs like diversity.

[brianluce]

they swore to me that their school was ranked second in the nation to USC, from some major college publication -.

Wishful thinking I'm afraid. LMU is a good school, but it's not known as top tier in film.

[Drew Ott]

Apparently you can start a "folder" at USC and fill it with updated resumes and letters of recommendation and that sort of thing. I'm going to do that shortly and hopefully it'll give me some advantage on getting accepted.

In case anybody is interested in this, know that they will discard your folder after it has been there for 2 years regardless of when you are applying, so if you are like me and will be applying in more than 2 years, you should wait.

Also, if you call USC's general admissions office they won't have any idea what you are talking about.

[c.g._eads]

Yeah, I figure 10-15 slots go to people with connections, just like the real film business (they say they prepare you for the real world, right?) which only leaves a few for the rest of us. I think I might take a chance and just go totally batsh*t insane on my app. They might think, "this guy is so out there, we should take a chance on him".

[Drew Ott]

What kind of connections would somebody have before going into their undergrad program?

[c.g._eads]

I was thinking the graduate program. You know, a second cousin of Steven Spielberg's grandson - that sort of thing. Anything that puts somebody else at just a little higher advantage than you. "Just look at this application a little more closely" wink wink.

[Vader]

Honestly ( i could be a fool on this topic , because i am still a student going to film school) BUT.... to me it seems more about what you DO and not hwre you GO.. i bet you could be hired on pretty easily with a Epic demo reel and good resume+ good people skills... graduating from the rattyiest college around, as long as it says Film -Whatever- Degree GPA 3.5+ .. godly demo reel... who cares where you go? just learn some stuff get some experience and keep a good attitude. (try not to go too far in debt) roar..

[Loki]

DVXUSER UNiversity.

In an effort to help you make your descision I will give you an accurate portrayl of life at DVXUSER University:


Hey! What settings did you use!? What mic is that!

[Cheesesailor77]

Issac

You just me me do a good post on my blog.

http://cineobscure.wordpress.com/ :D :evil:

Hudson- Spielberg applied to USC three times and was rejected each.

add 1 to the "Uneducated Hacks" ;)

[Greggl]

i bet you could be hired on pretty easily with a Epic demo reel and good resume+ good people skills...

I regret not going to one of the majors.. or AT THE LEAST - doing my
education in Los Angeles.

I did attend UW:Milwaukee for a spell as well as FSU. In the end its working
out ok, but I not only had to do the same things everyone needs to do, coming
out of school, I didn't have any 'go getter' network to speak of.

[Isaac_Brody]

Well, there's always the Spielbergs, the guys who are driven and spend every waking moment making it happen. You know it when you meet them that nothing is going to stop them from doing it. We have quite a number of those guys on here.

[J.R. Hudson]

Hudson- Spielberg applied to USC three times and was rejected each.

add 1 to the "Uneducated Hacks" ;)

:cheesy:
:cheesy:

[brianluce]

I talked to my dad today, he was on the faculty for a while at SC. He was also on the admissions committee. This info is about 8 years old. He's not there any more. I'd be surprised though if things are much different now.

-Legacies. Only about 1-3 per year. A credible legacy, Hasselhoff kids need not apply...
-Letters of rec. Unless is from a Speilberg, forget it. A Senator? They'll laugh.
-AA. Not Alcoholics Anonymous, Affirmative Action. Still with us. If you're Black you get slack. I'll leave it at that.
-GRE's usually 1300-1400 but there are lots of exceptions.
-Exceptions? Have you spent 87 days drifting in the Arctic Sea on a lifeboat? That would impress them. Have you overthrown a warlord in Darfur? could help. Now it gets dicey, have you created something artistically compelling? A short story? A poem, a documentary? Are you the real deal? Despite an inclination for high grades and GRE's, they know that it's only one piece of the puzzle and often a misleading piece.

He also said, "Tell him don't waste his money on film school unless he's rich. Not worth it."

[Cheesesailor77]

Here's my perspective, having looked at lot at film schools:

If you want to be a film maker and want to experience college, you might as well try to get into a film school. If the college experience isn't as important to you as the education, skip film school. Waste of time and money.

[KyleProhaska]

USC - Don't forget if your going for Directing, by the time you are a senior and it comes time to make a thesis film. Barely anyone gets to make one, and the rest are stuck working on everyone else's. Consider which school you might get more actual experience and be more ready for a job when you leave.

Thats my problem with USC. Its not universal but I've heard/read too many stories from people who learned a lot of info but didn't get a lot of hands on. Hence they graduate and unless they met someone who gets them a job they have no idea how to go about getting one....

- Kyle

[Drew Ott]

Who decides who gets to make a thesis film senior year?

[adkimery]

I regret not going to one of the majors.. or AT THE LEAST - doing my
education in Los Angeles.

I did attend UW:Milwaukee for a spell as well as FSU. In the end its working
out ok, but I not only had to do the same things everyone needs to do, coming
out of school, I didn't have any 'go getter' network to speak of.
The school you went to is only important while you are actually attending it, IMO. I have friends/co-workers that did graduate and/or post graduate work at FSU, AFI, USC, etc., and it didn't give them a magic star that allowed them to skip over the entry level, paying-your-dues grunt work that everyone has to do. My friend that did post-grad at USC graduate 8 or 9 years ago w/a class size of 30 people I think. Today only one or two classmates besides him still work in the industry and most of the people don't even live in LA any more.

Unless you are extremely gifted and/or extremely lucky no one is going to walk out of college into a fast track for their dream job. And if you are that gifted/lucky then your place of higher educate is irrelevant anyway.

Everyone is different and should do what feels right to them, but no one should feel pressured to attend a certain school because they think that's the only, or the best, way to get into the industry.


-A

[c.g._eads]

I think the "fight for a thesis film" only happens in undergrad. I'm applying for graduate school. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think everybody gets to make a thesis film in graduate school. If not, I might reconsider.

[NOMADIC]

I'll say a few thing...

I go to Cal State - Northridge, now it's not one of the big main film schools, but the main film schools are all hype in my eyes. I remember one studio executive was saying they liked Cal State-Northridge kids because they are more of the working class school and a willing to do what is needed for a project, while the major film programs create the pretty big egos that alot of people don't even want to mess with.

Besides the reputation...My school costs about $4000 a year... and some of our professors teach the same classes at our school and USC, and tell us its no different, just better facilities

As for AFI, you have to go to film school or have a pretty nice reel of work before you can get in... It's considered more of a masters program. And as for the LA Film school, I have mixed feelings about it, I like the idea of a 1 or 1 1/2 year program, but coming from my school experience, I can't see how you could learn what you should learn in that short amount of time...

anyway... done babbling. At the end of the day, its about the education you receive not the piece of paper AT ALL.