P2 - V - SxS Card

[Corine]

I'm sure this has been talk about before but didn't see it anywhere and this is a subject that I would like to have some light on;

The HVX200 is using the P2 card which gives you about 16 minutes of footage (16GB)

The EX1 is using the SxS card which gives you about an hour or so worth of footage.

Why did Panny give the Hvx such a low amount of time on a card? Is it that they could sell more cards?

One way to look at it (for the HVX user) treat your HVX as a 35mm camera when you set up and you will do fine with it. If I remember right 35mm only holds 10 minutes of footage at the cost of hundreds of $$$$. It has been awhile since I have looked at prices on 35mm.

I'm going to get the HVX after the NAB (hopefully prices will drop some) but wondering if the P2 cards will drop in price or will they become like the beta tapes did with the VHS tapes and our HVX will end up sitting in the closet collecting dust? (how about today's ordel with the short lived HD DVD to Blue Ray)?

I don't want an 8 track situation happening to me - opps I think I'm giving some of my age away - hey I watch old movies and I see those 8 tracks and ol 45 albums :kiss:

[Corine]

Also the date for the NAB in Vegas is mid April? I think I have the location and month right? Wish I could be there but cost factor on flying is a little high at the moment and I really have to save the $$$$$$ for the good ol' HVX200 and upgrade Final Cut Studio II

[KyleProhaska]

They didn't really do P2 the way they did because they wanted to sell more. The amount of minutes you get per GB is simply the way it is...based on the format, 1080 vs. 720, VFR or not, etc. There really isn't a way to cheat that. Besides that P2 was brand new when the HVX came out...or pretty close to it if I'm correct. So its no different than whenever something else thats new comes out. Heck I remember when the first gen. dual core chips came out. They were expensive, just like any new tech.

- Kyle

[Corine]

Kyle - What do you think is a much better way to record on and edit with - P2 or SxS?

[KyleProhaska]

Well it depends on what you need. Do you need all the different formats compatible with P2? If not then I don't know if it matters. Both are tapeless...they have an equal advantage IMO. Thats just what I gather. Still P2 has an advantage in supporting all the different codecs and formats so that might give it a serious edge. Again depends on what you want. You buy the EX1 to shoot tapeless but the EX1 is stuck with its 2 quality formats as far as I know.

HVX has loads of different options. So based on that if I had to make a decision for myself, P2 wins based on its features. In you case...who knows.

Don't worry about recording lengths that much, because with HVX your talking a more robust codec, EX1 an MPEG2 codec, hence the longer record time. Its like recording HDV on tape, but on a card instead.

[Corine]

Thanks - you answered my question. By the way since we are on the subject - what do you edit on? thanks again Kyle.

[KyleProhaska]

If your talking what I edit on I use Premiere CS3 at work and Final Cut Pro at home. Btw, I don't own either the EX or the HVX, I use the Canon XHA1 and HDV.

[Corine]

Thanks.

[Corine]

Which do you find easier to work with?

[puredrifting]

I'm sure this has been talk about before but didn't see it anywhere and this is a subject that I would like to have some light on;

The HVX200 is using the P2 card which gives you about 16 minutes of footage (16GB)

The EX1 is using the SxS card which gives you about an hour or so worth of footage.

Why did Panny give the Hvx such a low amount of time on a card? Is it that they could sell more cards?

One way to look at it (for the HVX user) treat your HVX as a 35mm camera when you set up and you will do fine with it. If I remember right 35mm only holds 10 minutes of footage at the cost of hundreds of $$$$. It has been awhile since I have looked at prices on 35mm.

I'm going to get the HVX after the NAB (hopefully prices will drop some) but wondering if the P2 cards will drop in price or will they become like the beta tapes did with the VHS tapes and our HVX will end up sitting in the closet collecting dust? (how about today's ordel with the short lived HD DVD to Blue Ray)?

I don't want an 8 track situation happening to me - opps I think I'm giving some of my age away - hey I watch old movies and I see those 8 tracks and ol 45 albums :kiss:


Corine:

P2 is a more industry established and accepted format than SxS. P2 has been very successful. I am not so sure that SxS will go past the EX-1 to other cameras, time will tell but if you look at Sony's recent track record with video formats, they are all over the map, introducing new formats almost every year (Beta SX, IMX2000 or whatever that other weird format was, XDCAM, XDCAM EX, XDCAM HD, HDV, Mini DV, DVCAM) Many of these formats are obsolete almost as soon as they are introduced. Sony had major hits with Beta SP and Dbeta but in HD, their only "hit" has been HDCAM. Even HDCAM SR is kind of borderline, more of the studios work in D5.

What has Panasonic been on for many years? DVC Pro and it's more robust variants, DVCPro 50 and DVCProHD. Many thousands of P2 cards have been sold and continue to be sold.

Of course SxS hold more run time per card, it's a 35Mbps vs. a 100Mbps codec. If you are going for maximum length, you get 42 minutes of 720 24PN on a 16GB P2 card BTW. Yes, it's not 1080 but 720 is more than adequate for a lot of material and outlets.

I really like the EX-1, I am contemplating possibly adding one to my kit before the year ends but I don't know if SxS will last as a format. It would not surprise me to see Sony introduce a new format to replace it next year or the year after, look at their track record with formats. They are like a dog chasing its tail.

Dan

[mcgeedigital]

Dan hit it out of the park. Couldn't agree more.

[Barry_Green]

It would not surprise me to see Sony introduce a new format to replace it next year or the year after, look at their track record with formats. They are like a dog chasing its tail.
Not really; it's not like they're randomly spewing out formats, it's that it's an inherent part of their business plan. They won't support anything for long, because Sony's business plan *relies* on the customer having to re-buy everything every few years. It's deliberate, and it's spelled out quite clearly in "Made In Japan", the autobiography of Sony's founder.

[puredrifting]

Not really; it's not like they're randomly spewing out formats, it's that it's an inherent part of their business plan. They won't support anything for long, because Sony's business plan *relies* on the customer having to re-buy everything every few years. It's deliberate, and it's spelled out quite clearly in "Made In Japan", the autobiography of Sony's founder.

Barry:

You are undoubtedly correct on that count.

In the 80s, I was a store manager for Circuit City (ughh, retail, I still have nightmares) and dealing with the Sony reps was always a piece of work. I have dealt with Sony as a consumer, dealer, professional dealer, professional customer and I have done some work for them. They have always been an arrogant organization and this marketing strategy just reinforces that notion. They make some great products, they have some brilliant engineering and some good people. But Sony has always struck me as arrogant, self centered, obsessed with money, kind of like a bad date ;-)

I really kind of like the EX-1 but I bet if I hold out long enough, Panasonic will come out with something under $10,000.00 that I will like better. Must not heed the siren call of the 1/2" chips, bigger pixels, less noise, better lcd, must wait for Panasonic, must wait for Panasonic. It's kind of like the Seventh Voyage of Sinbad, can't go into the water...stay on the boat....

Best,

Dan

[SPZ]

Not really; it's not like they're randomly spewing out formats, it's that it's an inherent part of their business plan. They won't support anything for long, because Sony's business plan *relies* on the customer having to re-buy everything every few years. It's deliberate, and it's spelled out quite clearly in "Made In Japan", the autobiography of Sony's founder.

Well, I do agree with this, specialy on consumer products, and, in recent years, on broadcast material, but the truth is Beta SP, a Sony format, lasted decades... Heck, our local TV Station is still using it since its instalation in 1987!

EDIT- Its the Beta SP legacy that made the HDCAM so widely accepted in the broadcast world. However, recent blunders like xdcam, Beta SX, IMX, etc. have dropped significantly Sony's credibility, and Panasonic's stability with their DVCPRO format is making many production house and broadcast channels change their workflow to P2

The winner move by Panasonic in my view was to trully invest in P2. From the HVX to the HPX3000 to the conceptual "new Varicam", everything is P2 based. This is reassuring to production houses/broadcasters, and, compared to the competition, is THE tapeless workflow to beat to date.

Like puredrifting said, Sony's commitment to SxS is limited to say the least- its a "wait and see"approach. Panasonic is 100% full resources commited to p2, which means they are way ahead in the tapeless game.

With AVC- INTRA 50, you get almost the same XDCAM-EX recording times in a similar sized P2 card, with the advantage of avc-intra Being 10BIT.