Blocky images when handheld

[Attic6]

I just lucked out i think.

I got asked to shoot a feature, and with a little luck it will pay for me to purchase an ex1 to rent to the production.
BUT i have been told by the rental house that the codec cant handle hand held stuff and breaks up into big squares.???

70% of the shoot is handheld, am i going to be stuck with a lemon and no usable footage ???

help...

[matthew77]

Complete nonsense.

I's very hard to break the XDCAM codec.

Shaky handheld footage will be nauseating and unwatchable before the codec breaks.

[Attic6]

:-) .

[Attic6]

Does anyone have a still grab from panning across a focus chart at a reasonable shutter speed, not the 1/25th that all the damn manufacturers use for some unholy reason...

[Stevet]

Yes Attic..
If you pan the image it turns into large blocks. This is the number on reason I bought it. LOL
There's plenty of footage. Look for it.

[joe 1008]

Even Barry Green, who was very sceptical about the codec of the EX1 admitted that it is hard to break. In handheld shots you might have rather problems with the rolling shutter of the CMOS sensors.

[Kenn Christenson]

Please - for anyone wondering about the codec's robustness check out this video -
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=126067

[basspig]

Blocky images? Who told you that? A Panasonic dealer? :)

Seriously, I have yet to 'break' this CODEC. Even turbulating water coming down a river at the bottom of a waterfall didn't break the CODEC. Each frame looks crisp and sharp at 1080P. I'd reckon 720 would be even better quality, though the extra quality would be lost on my eyes--it looks about perfect.

Now if you're talking SQ mode, that may be different, but slow moving scenes I shot in SQ looked better than the output of my HDV camera.

I just looked at some footage I shot at orchestra rehearsal last night and it's amazing. Pause on any frame and it's a printable 8x10 photo that looks very detailed and gorgeous color. I'm watching at close range on a 30" HP monitor and even with my face 13" from the screen, it looks crisp. The camera performs extraordinarily with stage lighting. And the audio from the built in mic was pretty round and sweet. With a little cut in the mids via EQ, it sounds good enough for televised material. I was surprised that it sounded this good from 66' away by an exit where one of the cams is set up. Put a Rode NT4 on this camera and you've got a fantastic A/V capture system.

[Barry_Green]

Yes the EX1's XDCAM EX recording format is *much* more robust than HDV.

[FrankC]

The only other thing you might plan on is a shoulder brace. The EX1 is not real easy to handhold for long periods since it is not a shoulder resting camera. First thing we did is to go out and get a shoulder brace, using your entire torso as the camera support... worked beautifully.

[Stevet]

FrankC, point me to this brace bro. thxs

[DCSensui]

Even turbulating water coming down a river at the bottom of a waterfall didn't break the CODEC.


Unless, of course, the camera happens to be coming down the waterfall, too ... :laugh:

[matthew77]

The lens would break before the XDCAM codec would break!

[FrankC]

I mentioned a shoulder brace in the very generic sense. There are a bunch out in the market. I think Philip B.said he owns 2 or 3... and you can see them in the WWI re-enactment footage he's posted (although he didn't say anything thing about the long stocking hat he was wearing!!!). Varizoom has a nice one... Glidecam, etc...

[DCSensui]

For my own shooting I use a CAVision shoulder brace that is slightly modified with a soft pad to keep it from skidding off my shoulder as well as to make it more comfortable.

It's slightly offset to allow my eye to line up with the eyepiece. I can't see the LCD screen that close up, so I prefer to shoot through the eyepiece.

I also have a monopod mounted with a quick release plate and that helps keep the camera supported if I'm working with it for hours on end.

[Steve Shovlar]

FrankC, point me to this brace bro. thxs

Steve, this is the one. Excellent value.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Pro-Shoulder-Support-Pad-for-Camcorder-Video-DV-Camera_W0QQitemZ150219848096QQihZ005QQcategoryZ237 80QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Stevet]

Steve, have you tried it? Does it work well?

[thefilmaddict]

No Blocky issues for me!

[philip bloom]

I mentioned a shoulder brace in the very generic sense. There are a bunch out in the market. I think Philip B.said he owns 2 or 3... and you can see them in the WWI re-enactment footage he's posted (although he didn't say anything thing about the long stocking hat he was wearing!!!). Varizoom has a nice one... Glidecam, etc...

dude, it's like the best hat like ever!!!

shooting loads of handheld clean ex1 footage, robust as hell! Letus footage looks smashing too!

get the cheap shoulder mount, my stuff was SOOOO steady today with it. $40 can't go wrong! It's the ebay one

[kubalsky]

well, Im sold. just bought one. I can finally get some feeling back in my right arm, yeah.

[philip bloom]

LA is far too big. It's needs a nice Tube.

But seriously the codec is SO robust

[philip bloom]

you can see photos of it in use on my blog for the trench

[Attic6]

Wow, guys get would up fast around these parts :-)

Lots of my stuff ends up being hand held. I shoot lots of skating and bmx stuff inbetween and am pretty paranoid about such a sizey investment. Stuff in South Africa isn't cheap when you have a new government ruining our economy...

[jmc]

The only negative things I've seen from this cam were a helicopter shot where the whole image turned to jello, and images flickering from florescent lighting. But those were rolling shutter issues, not codec issues.

[philip bloom]

images flickering from fluorescent lighting arent rolling shutter issues. You adjust the shutter rate or use the flicker reduce function. I only have it when shooting 60fps in the UK when I should be shooting 50fps under artificial lighting

[Barry_Green]

images flickering from fluorescent lighting arent rolling shutter issues.
Rolling shutter can interfere with fluorescent lighting. It can cause dark line flickering or it can cause rolling bands through the footage.

[philip bloom]

not experienced myself yet, shot quite a lot under that lighting.

[Barry_Green]

Crank up the shutter speed and you'll see it for sure. If you're under fresh, properly-working lighting you shouldn't see it when using 1/60th (in NTSC), but if the ballast is flickering or if you're using an off-sync shutter you'll see rolling bands.

Look at the last example in this article (http://dvxuser.com/jason/CMOS-CCD/); that's 24p @ 1/48th but shot under a flickering fluorescent.

[filmbuff81]

It sort of looks like a bit of a rolling shutter issue at the start of your short "My Autumn's Done Come" only in the bathroom shots though. But maybe it's something else. I was not looking for rolling shutter issues. Simply checking out more of your fantastic work and it seemed to stand out simply in that one spot.

It does look like dark line flickering as Barry says. The strange thing is that I do not notice it at all on your dad's(I assume) face while brushing his teeth or when shaving. Yet the dark flickering lines pop up on the edges of the frame. Maybe because there's a constant stream of natural light on his face?

It's nowhere near as bad as the examples from the article; however, in the closeup of toothpaste I think is probably the most evident area of dark flickering lines.

Having said that I think it's possibly only an issue, because it's slow-mo and fairly static in terms of what is happening within the shots? During a normal scene with a modicum of movement to distract the eye I don't really think that flickering would be as noticeable? Sort of like in your KGB Theme park interior shots, where there is running(wearing gas masks) and a lot of camera movement. I doubt anyone would be able to notice if there is issues with the fluorescent lights, especially if they are not looking for it.

[philip bloom]

that was not rolling shutter that was 60fps in a 50hz country. The lights caused it. I learned my lesson from that!

Am shooting loads of handheld in LA at the moment at night with ambient light, whips, crashes etc no problems all the footage looks great, even with 9db of gain in

[filmbuff81]

ah ok. I was wondering if that was the issue, but wasn't entirely sure since it was fairly pronounced sin spots, but that's why it pays to ask questions to clear something like that up.

9db gain is pretty impressive. I know you added magic bullet to the KGB Theme Park Piece, so obviously the shadows are much more pronounced. I'd be intrigued to see some of the uncorrected footage from that, since even with grading the exposure under such minimal lighting is impressive(That and I love heavy shadows). Did you use any gain, or were you shooting at 0db during the initial shoot for those tunnel shots?

[philip bloom]

i dont have any ungraded stills to show you. I was shooting the gain in the whole time.

[Attic6]

After much reading on the net, does anybody have footage of an orchestra being chased through a forrest by some cops with their lights flashing, on snow with their nd on?

[DCSensui]

After much reading on the net, does anybody have footage of an orchestra being chased through a forrest by some cops with their lights flashing, on snow with their nd on?

I almost had that yesterday but it was a horde of ukulele players being chased through a coconut grove. So you can't really tell if there were any artifacts. All the coconut trees tend to lean anyhow.

[philip bloom]

After much reading on the net, does anybody have footage of an orchestra being chased through a forrest by some cops with their lights flashing, on snow with their nd on?

yep, please look at my latest short

www.philipbloom.co.uk/shorts/orchestrawoodspolice720.mp4

[Grug]

Phil, have Sony started paying you some dividends yet? You must have sold more of these cameras than their own marketing campaign! :laugh: Beautiful stuff as always.

[philip bloom]

i wish!

[Attic6]

Stoked!!! That footage is amazing, how did you get that guy to jump throuigh that fence with the chelo??? And was that live amunition? ;-)

I've got the option of going to test the camera next to an hvx withb flashing lights/different shutter speeds shooting stuff more similar to what i might use it for...

will try post some footage if i go...

Unfortunately it doesn't snow here, but i'm sure i can find an orchestra and some cops...

[philip bloom]

it's easier to find a string quartet than an orchestra. I got lucky. I bumped into a 30 piece orchestra whilst queuing for taco bell and they had all their instruments and were up for it.

[ullanta]

it's easier to find a string quartet than an orchestra. I got lucky. I bumped into a 30 piece orchestra whilst queuing for taco bell and they had all their instruments and were up for it.

I guess they weren't unionized...