1080p resolution?

[ethereal]

Its obvious that the HVX doesn't record true hidef 1080p footage. I figured that the 1080 setting would have a resolution of 1440x1080. I just got the update for Premiere Pro CS3 3.1.1, and that has support for MXF files, so i'm importing the actual files into PremPro now... but its reading the footage as 1280x1080...

what is going on then? i'm new to this, which is apparent, but this seems like a cheap fix to me, i just want to know if i've missed something.

[David Saraceno]

The HVX200 1080P video uses anamorphic (non-square) pixels which are 1.5 as wide as they are tall. The 1920x1080 video is encoded using 1280x1080 pixels.

A similar technique is used by other video formats, including 16:9 DV and some HDV formats.

I don't what your reference to a "cheap fix" means.

Please explain.

[John Froton]

Almost all Hi Def camcorders and HD formats use an anamorphic variance in order to record and display full 1920x1080 screen resolution.

It's not like the HVX200 is the only camcorder that anamorphically stretches the data to fill the 1920x1080 screen size. In fact I am not sure of any camcorders that do record full square pixeled 1920x1080 resolution or if that is even possible at this time.

I believe that the HVX does record true HD 1080p as well as any available camcorder does

[William_Robinette]

It has to do more with the codec then anything else. The HVX does everything internally at 1080p and then down converts to whatever you are recording. The DVCproHD spec for 1080 is 1280x1080 with a PAR of 1.5 as well as it being an interlaced only stream requiring pulldown for progressive material.

["JM"]

I'm new here, myself, and in case other users would wonder as well, i just wanted to use the opportunity to ask you Pros this: when referring to 1080P you're guys talking about 1080i format recording in 24P or PA mode, right ? cause i'm just starting to learn my HVX and can't find such 1080P option in the menu setting. Please indulge if it's a dumb question, but i'm still undicided on what 720/24PN or 1080/24PA format to go with, so any extra tech info would help. And if anyone knows if those these two formats can be combined and edited on FCP or any other Mac-based platform i'd rather work with, instead of FCP, please let me know.

Thanks a million, can't wait to start playing with my new toy, but hopefully in both recording format so that i can enjoy both the highest picture quality and VFR : )

[William_Robinette]

Yes, the options in the HVX menus read as 1080i/24p(A).

Those that have done the tests say that 1080p on the HVX has about a 15-20% increase in detail. I (on the few occasions I shoot on an HVX) use 1080p because it is much less compressed (noticeably so) then 720pN. With 1080p you get about a gig a minute on P2, 720p is much, much longer.

[THoff]

The PAL models of the HVX actually do record 1440x1080. Because the PAL framerate is lower than for NTSC, the codec uses the bandwidth freed up by the lower framerate to encode more pixels on the horizontal axis.

[GrenadeArtist]

William do you have an HVX yet?

["JM"]

So basically, the use of 720P over 1080i really only is to save disk space and speed the data transfer, and was probably only offered by Panasonic because their camcorder technology was (way) ahead of their over-priced P2 cards. Now, please could someone tell me if these two recording formats are somewhat compatible, when it comes to editing on Final Cut Pro or PPCS3 software. I just bought an HVX for the 60 fps slow-mo option thinking i had finally found THE answer to all my problems, but since everything is pointing to the more detailed 1080P recording direction, i'm actually wondering if i really made the right choice, cause i'd really need VFR in some unsteady cam shaky cases...

[William_Robinette]

William do you have an HVX yet?

Not yet. Waiting 'till after NAB to pull the trigger on HD.

JM, just use your eyes. If you are fine with the 720p picture then use it. It has been good enough for everything right up through nationally released features. The limitations imposed by shooting 1080p (less rec time, no VFR) don't effect most of what I shoot so I choose it over 720p. For everyone it will be different.

["JM"]

Thanks William, sounds good to me, and 720P was what i was going to use for a first test project, anyway. Just having really hard time to figure what the options are to acquire a HD monitor a-la-Pany BT-LH80W without going broke... Any idea?

I was actually surfing through an older thread but sorta made myself look dumb when bringing up why not just using a GOOD 26" Sony HDTV as an alternative... Is it that silly? yea, probably in the grown-up world. I personally learned how to get the best out of the tiny LCD on the back of my Nikon's so could probably handle using a lower-rez monitor, as long as the colors are accurate.

Ever heard really bad things about those Sony Bravia series? B&H is having a sale on those and that's what i was thinking using...

[ethereal]

The HVX200 1080P video uses anamorphic (non-square) pixels which are 1.5 as wide as they are tall. The 1920x1080 video is encoded using 1280x1080 pixels.

A similar technique is used by other video formats, including 16:9 DV and some HDV formats.

I don't what your reference to a "cheap fix" means.

Please explain.

you misunderstand me, by cheap fix i meant exactly that... that the footage would have to be stretched to achieve the same 16:9 aspect ratio...

as i understood it, (which i suppose is wrong) the camera should be putting out 1440x1080, and when it is stretched horizontally, each PIXEL is stretched to the same 16:9 ratio, and thus is applied to the full image... 1280x1080 would exhibit a phenomenally lower quality if it was up converted to 1920x1080, wouldn't it...?

so really we're just arguing semantics, unless, like i said in my original post, again i've missed something...

either way, here's the thing... i want to get 1920x1080 footage out of the camera, or at least try to, but i don't know how to do it and all... i have Instant HD for AE, would that work? but otherwise, if i'm just pushing my luck, i'd like to know...
thanks in advance...

[ulisses]

1280x1080 hasn't to be stretched to 1920x1080, it already has 1080 lines so it is only a aspect ratio convertion, like 1:1 photoshop square pixel file to 1.3333 for 4x3 video...
When you say "would exhibit a phenomenally lower quality" did you saw the HVX 1080 footage anywhere ?
But, if you want a 1:1 1920x1080 HDTV image, go for the Sony EX.

Ulisses

[John Froton]

you misunderstand me, by cheap fix i meant exactly that... that the footage would have to be stretched to achieve the same 16:9 aspect ratio...

as i understood it, (which i suppose is wrong) the camera should be putting out 1440x1080, and when it is stretched horizontally, each PIXEL is stretched to the same 16:9 ratio, and thus is applied to the full image... 1280x1080 would exhibit a phenomenally lower quality if it was up converted to 1920x1080, wouldn't it...?

so really we're just arguing semantics, unless, like i said in my original post, again i've missed something...

either way, here's the thing... i want to get 1920x1080 footage out of the camera, or at least try to, but i don't know how to do it and all... i have Instant HD for AE, would that work? but otherwise, if i'm just pushing my luck, i'd like to know...
thanks in advance...

The HVX200 should be putting out 1280x1080 because that is the spec for the DVCPro HD codec. 1440x1080 is the spec for HDV and XD Cam.

Depending on the format of the specific camcorder, you are typically going to have to choose between either ..

..1280x1080 (DVC-Pro HD which is encoded to individual frames at 100Mbps with 4.2.2 colorspace)

or 1440x1080 (HDV and XD Cam, with HDV recording at 25Mbps 4.2.0 colorspace to groups of frames rather than individual frames and XD Cam at 35Mbps with the same 4.2.0 colorspace I believe).

In any case you get full 1080 vertical resolution out of the codecs and to get the 1920 horizontal resolution you have to stretch the pixels horizontally to fill the 1920 screen size.

With the HVX200 and the DVCPro HD codec, what you lack from having 1280 rather than 1440 in horizontal pixels, you make up for by having higher bits per second encoding (100Mbps) and higher capacity color space and sampling (4.2.2)

The bottom line would be to try and use or sample some real world footage out of whatever camcorder you might consider using because many times the numbers tell a different story than the real output of the camcorder.

ADDITIONAL EDIT: In any case you will have to recompress to a new codec in your NLE if you want to have your footage be true 1920x1080 resolution with square pixels, which will be pointless because you will never surpass the quality of the original source footage by recompressing to more pixels anyway. Otherwise, current media by todays standards utilize and thrive on anamorphic pixel aspect ratios and 1440x1080 as well as 1280x1080 codecs are widely used and accepted as acquisition codecs for true HD video.

What really should be paid attention to is your delivery needs .... that should determine what will work best as far as what format and resolution is acceptable. Where is that video you are going to be shooting going to end up?

[David Saraceno]

I just asked what you meant by "cheap fix."

I wasn't arguing with you.