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basspig
02-11-2008, 12:50 AM
A friend of mine was commenting on how (to him) rediculous it seems that Sony put a camera on the market whose output nobody can read (NLE incompatibility). While reading another forum, I found there is XDCam transfer software on a Sony web site. Only drawback is that it’s not currently available for Windows.
What the XDcam really needs is an enhancement to Clip Browser that will reverse the Big Endian audio bit format to Little Endian for proper playback on Intel-based machines. As many of you know, there is no audio when you import an XDCam EX .MP4 file into Premiere CS3.
I have been exploring demo versions of two products that are supposed to solve this challenge:
Cineform Prospect HD/2K
MainConcept MPEG Pro HD 3
The first choice does not make XDCam files directly readable in Premiere. The files must first be converted to 80Mb/S Intermediate format first. Many wipes, transitions and color grading effects don’t work in realtime (you get a red “X” in the corner of the screen, and on all clips the luminance shifts toward high contrast when playback is paused. The workflow is just about as efficient as working with HDV off of tape, because of this extra conversion step—the speed advantages of tapeless recording seem to be not fully-realized because of this. In addition, users who depend on dual-head graphics cards for second monitor video-only display will lose that functionality.
The second choice seems to offer more promise, in terms of efficient workflow and avoiding the ballooning disc space and conversion time required with Cineform, but it too has its issues, in that again, no second monitor support on dual-head graphics cards like nVidia GTX8800, and in the RC8 that I just evaluated, unrendered segments, when played, see a rapid ramping up of memory allocation by Premiere, until, after 20 or so seconds of continuous play, the RAM usage hits the addressable limits of Windows XP and Premiere crashes.
Still frames grabbed from Premiere with either CODEC look just about indescernable from one another—the quality of both is excellent.
Both add-ons above achieve some small degree of interoperability, however, my friend taunts me about being “bamboozled” into purchasing expensive third-party CODECs just to import the footage from the camera. I told him that this is the price you pay for being on the “bleeding edge” of technology—sometimes you get the cuts and blood to show for it. But in thinking more deeply about it, I do think it would be a good service to Sony customers if Sony could build a converter into their Clip Browser, thus removing a considerable obstacle as perceived by a segment of the buying market that may be ‘on the fence’ about choosing this camera over something else.
My personal pet peeve with this camera is the fact that when you switch it off, it’s not OFF. Leave the battery on it for three days, and when you need it, that battery you thought was still fully-charged it about to shut down. So you adapt and take the battery out, introducing the possibility that you’ll misplace it, or worse, lose it entirely and be caught with no power source on a job. That’s really the only “stupid” design flaw that I can raise issue with on this camera. But you know what? The picture and sound on this camera are beyond reproach, in my book, and weighting that in, I think I can live with the battery situation.
Ergonomics have been talked about with regard to this camera. Yes, it is a bit awkward, and I have big, stubby fingers and find it challenging to use the buttons on this camera, but that’s been true for all the Sony cameras I’ve owned, so I’m not particularly disappointed here. I think a camera this good deserves some sort of shoulder brace, if the user can demonstrate that it will improve his or her shooting style. We use our other cameras tripod-mounted a lot, and I don’t see this changing, so it is not an issue here.
Controllers… I’ll probably miss the convenience my Manfrotto 523 offered with the V1U. But not a whole lot. Maybe the folks that make these controllers will come up with clever tricks to add features like ‘push auto’ by manipulating signals to the lens controller. Time will reveal what products take shape.
Overall, Sony did a remarkable—no—an AWESOME job, integrating the features, quality level and portability that they did, and at an absurd giveaway price. Instead of buying one F900, we can afford a whole cadre of these EX1s, which provide more value than the one camera ever could.
Bottom line will be how well these cameras hold up over time. My first unit had to go back to the store because it simply stopped working altogether after 5-1/2 hours. Given the long string of 100% reliable Sony cameras I’ve owned, statistically, this would seem inevitable. Of course, once you’ve seen a brand new camera fail before your eyes, it does shake your faith for a while. Same thing happened with some super-power amplifiers I added to my sound system last year—but after I repaired it, it’s been working flawlessly since and I’ve regained some confidence in it. Hopefully I’ve had my one bad unit and the rest will be trouble-free from now on.

robroysyd
02-11-2008, 04:17 AM
Um, the clip browser / XDCAM transfer software most certainly does run under Windows. I regularly use it to read the SxS cards, rewrap to mxf and plonk 1920x1080 HQ video straight into Vegas.

Steve Shovlar
02-11-2008, 12:00 PM
Thats right the browser/transfer siftware works fine in Windows, Trouble PP doesn't read MXF files, wheras Vegas does. Easier to switch to vegas than spend 500 or a thousand on a bit of software that does nothing buut get your footage into PP< and could be obsolete in a couple of months.

nsoltz
02-11-2008, 07:46 PM
Sony has very clearly stated that Main Concept is required with Premiere CS3 for import of EX-1 files.

basspig
02-11-2008, 07:48 PM
I was talking about the XDCam Transfer software, not the Sony Clip Browser, which I already have. The Mac program was mentioned as actually CONVERTING the footage, not rewrapping it.

I also have Vegas and yes, it reads .MXF files, but I can't work as efficiently with it as with Premiere, and our integration with all the other Adobe apps make Premiere workflow much more streamlined.
Vegas lacks a number of things, like a decent titler, and the version 7 we have lacks a multi-camera editor like the one in Premiere, which is fantastic and cuts a 12-hour by-hand A-B-C-D cut edit job down to a 1 hour realtime process.

I still like Vegas, and I use it exclusively for field multi-track recording at concerts, as it writes all audio tracks to individual files and closing and saving is nearly instantaneous with no de-muxing from temp file to multiple WAV files like most other multitrack editors. But for video, it feels less polished than Premiere and I find that most things take longer to accomplish, and the algorithms that scale video seem to produce some jaggies, whereas the Adobe scaling looks cleaner to my eyes.

Switching to Vegas or buying the MainConcept product have about equal costs, only the latter has no additional training cost because we're all trained in Adobe products and can realize immediate productivity, wheras with Vegas, we have to re-learn everything and find different ways to accomplish what I, personally, can just about do blindfolded in Premiere. :)

Cost is not the issue for us, but learning curve and quality of output. Vegas was our transitional NLE for when we were beginning to work with HDV and didn't have the hardware to run the upgrade to Premiere CS3. The hardware was purchased last summer and we're glad to be back in familiar surroundings with Premiere.

What does concern me somewhat is how long before MainConcept comes out with a STABLE CODEC that does not leak memory and does not bring quad-core 3.5GHz workstations to their knees playing back a single XDCam stream.
XDCam footage is only 30% more pixels than HDV, so it shouldn't be more than 30% more difficult for the NLE to handle. The way it's struggling, compared to the ease with which HDV is handled, tells me the CODEC is far from optimized at this time. But it IS a release candidate, so I can't fault it too heavily. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they finally do get it right, so by the time we strart shooting officially with the XDCam EX, we'll have all the SxS cards we need and the NLE fully debugged and ready for high volume production.

basspig
02-23-2008, 07:25 AM
UPDATE:

I think that Cineform is pretty much dead as far as meeting our needs, so we're betting on MainConcept MPEG Pro HD3.1.

I just tried their 3.1 update and it's improved considerably over the 8.o r8 version, however, it still has a catastrophic memory leak problem when playing unrendered titles from Premiere's Corporate templates. Premiere will bleed over 2GB of memory in 20 seconds and then issue a low memory error, then crash shortly thereafter.

The other shortcoming which puts it in the Cineform league of inefficient workflow is the fact that the CODEC is not global to all Adobe apps. You have to convert the footage to uncompressed to work on it in AE and then recompress the whole thing at final render. That means terrabytes of disc space for any long-form work.

The folks at MainConcept tell me that they may offer support for AE in the future, but not for now.

Another reason why MainConcept is so expensive is that it provides Dolby encoder and AVCHD and h.264--most stuff that Premiere already provides, so I feel that MC should just sell a XDCam EX CODEC and offer it for a price minus all the Dolby, etc licensing, which makes the price expensive for just a CODEC.

At any rate, it looks like MainConcept may end up the best solution in our situation, where time is short and projects are involving 10 hours of footage from multiple cameras. I like being able to drag MXFs into Premiere and not wait for "Media Pending" too. It has a lot of advantages. Just hope they fix the memory leaks and add AE availability so we can use Bridge to work across AE and Premiere.

Carl Marxx
02-23-2008, 08:30 AM
I, too, have bought the EX-1 and had it for only 2 days. To answer your questions partly, here it goes... Sony wanted an entry level camera to their XDCAM family; they also needed a camera of a prosumer type that would compete with the Panasonic DVX200; presto, the new Sony XDCAM-EX1. The problems we (the owners of this pro model) have is that Sony had to "rush to market" to fill a gap in their camera marketing line. Be cool, software and other products will catch up! As for now, if you really need it for working projects, try the SP Modes, which is equivalent to HDV2 resolution and compatable with the 25mbs and transferred through the "fire-wire" connection. They are SP1080i, 30, and SP720p 24, and work fine directly tranferred to tape. I know the SP1080i works for sure since I have a Sony M-25 HDV recording deck and have the videos to prove it. It's nice because it will start recording directly with the record button on the camera. This will give me a potential of 4.5 hours of continuous HDV video on tape with the "standard" cassette. Great for those long-winded speakers at conventions, and so forth. You just have to carry a deck, dedicated hard drive, or perhaps another inexpensive HDV camera for a source deck. There's a thought, pick up an inexpensive $200 camcorder with an LCD for monitoring and the ability to record into the "fire-wire" port. It might work! In the interim, give time for the sofware and compatable hardware to catch up with the HQ video half of this fine camera. It was a wise decision to buy it, and it will fulfill your high expectations in time. Carl..

Barry_Green
02-23-2008, 08:50 AM
I think the new update of EDIUS is supposed to read XDCAM-EX files directly.

basspig
02-23-2008, 11:42 AM
Carl, do you know of a $200 HDV camcorder that can actually RECORD via Fire wire?
Wait.. I DO have a Canon HV20.. I can experiment with that. Mount to the hot shoe and cable them together.

I was able to capture in HDVSplit, but Premiere can only control the EX1's playback, but it sees no video stream coming in and the top of the capture window says that it can't control the deck.

It would be messy to be working with tapes again, but I went into this knowing that things would be rocky in the beginning. Hopefully by wedding season (two months from now) we'll have a working solution.

I really wish companies like MainConcept would not bundle so much expensive third party licensed software with their CODEC. If they would release an XDCam CODEC without all the Dolby encoder and AVC licenses, they could probably offer it for $99.

basspig
02-23-2008, 12:14 PM
A few minutes editing with some color correction filters and the MPEG Pro HD 3.1 results in the video in the preview window getting stuck on a certain frame, the timeline thumbnails not updating and Premiere not responding. One CPU core nailed to the ceiling at 100%, while the other four are idle.
Looks like the 3.1 build is not ready yet.

Stevet
02-24-2008, 08:37 AM
Carl, do you know of a $200 HDV camcorder that can actually RECORD via Fire wire?
Wait.. I DO have a Canon HV20.. I can experiment with that. Mount to the hot shoe and cable them together.



Thanks basspig.
Report back on this. That will be interesting.