Is DV worth 35mm?

[GuitarRy]

cheers,

first of all id like to say that my problem is not the choice of wich 35mm adapter ill take, it's just the question IF it is worth buying an adapter for my Canon XL1?!

Atm i can't afford buying the HVX either the XHA1.so..

Thanks for answers!

Greetings,
Garry

[rawfa]

I'm a huge 35mm adapter enthusiast. I really think they're worth it. But additionally to the cost of the adapter have in mind you will need lenses.

[GuitarRy]

cheers,
thanks@rawfa : lenses are not the problem. i have a couple of Canon FD lenses; such as 18mm at 1,8F, 35mm 1,8F, 50mm at 2,0F and 115mm at 2,8F.

Still, is a Canon XL1 worth the 35mm-Adapter-Purchase? it's DV and well don't have a clue to buy or not to buy :-)

greetz
Garry

[Jason Adams]

I use the DVx100 and Letus extreme and the results are fantastic. I think 35mm adapters are a good investment, because they can go on just about any of the small format SD or HD cameras. If you have a client that wants HD you can always rent a camera and still use your accessories - Adapter, Follow Focus, Rails ets.

[hoarp001]

I went to the SGpro place the other day and took an FX1 and an XL2. The XL2 produces great images through it, theres no question its worth the cash no matter what camera system you are using.

Looks pretty cool too

http://www.peter-hoare.co.uk/sgpro10.jpg

[rawfa]

I've seen cool footage from a 1 ccd dv camera. It's worth it. Have no doubt about it.

[GuitarRy]

cheers,
great! thanks to all of you!!! i somehow got convinced :-) i think ill run for the letusextrem.- WHY?-because it's already flipped image. and other 35's in combination with a flipmodule are expensive! AND i can't hardly imagine youll get the exact results an adapter would give thats hardmounted. so. letusX- Im coming!
thanks!
Garry

[MalcolmOng]

HOLD YOUR HORSES MATE. When you make an adaptor purchase, ALWAYS ALWAYS remember that this is the beginning of the spending. You'll need a set of rails and a follow focus, along with some handhold system coz handheld with these beasts is a real b*tch. You'll probably spend about 1000 bucks on the accessories for the adaptor alone! Make sure you keep this in mind, otherwise your adaptor experience won't be a very pleasant one. Personally, I have an adaptor and I'm in love with it (it's the letus economy). However, it's added a whole new dimension to my workflow, and basically, it's like filmmaknig on 'hard mode'

[hoarp001]

Also the SGpro with the flip module is better than the Letus any day. The footage from the letus always looks milky and washed out compared to the SGpro. The SG looses a little bit more light, but the image is so much nicer, I think its worth it.

I have an SGpro with follow focus and flip unit on order right now, and I cant wait for it to arrive.


www.shoot35.com

[Charles Lowthian]

Still, is a Canon XL1 worth the 35mm-Adapter-Purchase? it's DV and well don't have a clue to buy or not to buy :-)


if you have the money, then yes.
if you don't have the money, then yes - get the money for it :)

two positives to purchasing a 35mm adapter regardless of the camera you currently own:

:thumbup: adapters, like lenses, like tripods, will outlive a camera (most of the time) so is a good investment.
you can take an adapter and put it on most cameras (providing you have the right stepping rings) so it will be universal.

:thumbup: unless you are outputting to blueray/hd, dvd's will be standard definition for a while. a good sd camera (your XL1) produces a better image than a bad hd camera - i didn't name a model there , so don't attack this call :dankk2:


to buy or not to buy....
"to emphasize depth of field, or not to emphasize, that is the question" :)

[Charles Lowthian]

ahm... looks like i had a bit of a delay in my response :huh: still read it though :D

[William_Robinette]

Please listen to what Malcolm said.

I would budget no less then $2,000 for a functional adapter set.

[GuitarRy]

cheers and the FUDGE!

you people are so great. i just bookmarked dvx, the fudge! ( replace "dge" with "ck" ;-) ).

To be honest my dear informative community, i used to have the dvx. some fudging gay stole it and the rest of my equipment right before i was buying an adapter-combination (rails, focus etc.). That was pain in the below part of your back. So leftovers like my manfrotto tripod and the Canon XL1 was the rest i had. The Insurance paid me back the money BUT i couldn't complete the job i was doing so everything went to court. So i lost all the money again. (Sorry for my english, im german)

Now i gotta start of right where i began. Though, i get new jobs to do and people tell me: "Dude, i want the look that a movie has" so i agree.

Anyway, i'd like to thank all of you for the help and fcourse - i was planning to pay about 1500euros which is more than 2k $. You will probably tell me that that amount of money is almost a new dvx or whatever. Hell no, not in germany. Calculated back to dollars the germans charge you about 6k's for a dvx. So.

youre the best!
greetings
Garry

[D_Odell]

I'm a owner of a SGpro (before a M2), with a indifocus + different accesories.

And I have had second thoughts several times. Cause, I'm no expert at pulling focus, which is a criteria at this work. It cam to my mid how much I liked the simplicity of video camcorder. But I have read more and spent a lot more money, could probably have bought me an A1 instead of the second hand DVX100A I bought with the adapter. But I like woring with the SGpro and the looks is great.

I would go so fare to say that you should be sure to spend a lot of money, and if there's HD even more money. I'm a film science student and the money doesn’t come knocking on my door.

[Bob Gruen]

I'm more than a little dismayed at the advise given on this thread: "Hell yeah! Buy one!" without even asking the poster what kind of work he is planning on doing. I understand that it is a 35mm adapter forum, but he is looking for wisdom from those who have made the purchase and he mostly got fan club responses.

First, what type of recording do you do? Is there really a demand in your area for it to the point where you will win more work and be able to charge more? You will need to have a focus puller, so you will have to charge more just to break even.

Second, have you experimented with your camera to see if there are other options? The first thing you should do is buy a few neutral density filters to see what the camera is capable of doing with the iris wide open on the delivered lens. Start with cheap Cokin filters and upgrade to better ones if you like the result. Canon has an adapter that replaces the XL lens with EOS lenses. I have no idea how well it works, but it's worth some research. Canon also makes an XL mount upgraded lens, maybe that with some ND filters would get you there while still having an easy to focus and lightweight rig.

Third, what's your future path? The Canon XL / EOS adapter or an additional XL lens is not viable for any camera other than the Canon XL line. If you are planning on moving up to an HVX or other HI Def camera in the near future then a 35mm adapter might be right for you, or you can plan on upgrading to the newly released XL-H1.

Good Luck,

Bob

[Jon Neely]

Hi Bob, correct me if I am wrong here, but putting EOS lenses on your stock XL, or even what sony is doing with their new HDV camera making them compatible with their line of SLR lenses wont get the look of a 35mm adapter, using those slr adapters doesn't change the platte that the image is being seen, and it will still be capture with the virgin sensor, so it is to my understandings that there will be no more DOF decrease, just an increase of lenses choices. So what I am saying is to Bob and everyone else (including myself) I hadn't really thought of this until I talked with the Sony guy from the FCP super meet last night, these small sensor DV, and HDV cameras with interchangeable lenses that you can mount SLRs to be used and have the Virgin light hit the sensor only wont decrease(make shallower) your DOF, thus loosing the whole point in my eyes. GuitarRy, try to find someone on here that lives close so you can test out these adapters before spending the cash, all of them give great and unique images, but they are all different and we dont know how you like shooting and you might hate your rig with a 35mm adapter.
Bob/Anyone if I'm wrong in any aspect, please correct me. We all learn things everyday.

Jon

[GuitarRy]

Cheers,

ah and my name is Garry

thanks Bob and Jon for your posts. I highly appreciate your arguments.

Well, as i explained before- i used to have a quite acceptable set of equipment. That was the way i made money if you know what i mean.

Anyway. The only fact why i was asking was this:

We all know that DIGITAL movie recording isn't that focus/ sharp as 16mm or 35mm would be. So what i always did was - i took the HD videos i captured and reduced their size to make the video look sharper. Now, DV hasn't got that huge video size so that i don't have the opportunity to smaller the video to gain focus.
Now you might think; where is the point?
I'll tell you. The point is- as i recognized, 35mm adapters reduce the focus abilities of camcorders. And in addition i have seen a lot of 35mm adapter movies using any DV camcorder look extreemly blurry or unfocussed ( fcourse the DOV). But we all know that the adapter makes the focal lenght extremly short. And i am afraid that it is just not worth it buying an adapter to get the cool and beautyful look but everything seem to be just frickin unsharp.

Fcourse in future terms i'll be regoing into HD. Looking forward to getting the HPX500- but still i gotta work :-) to get money

greetings,
thanks for great replies.
Garry

[Charles Lowthian]

Hi Bob, correct me if I am wrong here, but putting EOS lenses on your stock XL, or even what sony is doing with their new HDV camera making them compatible with their line of SLR lenses wont get the look of a 35mm adapter

on that note, has anyone actually used the XL1 or XL2 with the well advertised canon adapter with EOS lenses on? anyone got some footage or screen grabs?

[Spartacus]

Cheers,

ah and my name is Garry

thanks Bob and Jon for your posts. I highly appreciate your arguments.

Well, as i explained before- i used to have a quite acceptable set of equipment. That was the way i made money if you know what i mean.

Anyway. The only fact why i was asking was this:

We all know that DIGITAL movie recording isn't that focus/ sharp as 16mm or 35mm would be. So what i always did was - i took the HD videos i captured and reduced their size to make the video look sharper. Now, DV hasn't got that huge video size so that i don't have the opportunity to smaller the video to gain focus.
Now you might think; where is the point?
I'll tell you. The point is- as i recognized, 35mm adapters reduce the focus abilities of camcorders. And in addition i have seen a lot of 35mm adapter movies using any DV camcorder look extreemly blurry or unfocussed ( fcourse the DOV). But we all know that the adapter makes the focal lenght extremly short. And i am afraid that it is just not worth it buying an adapter to get the cool and beautyful look but everything seem to be just frickin unsharp.

Fcourse in future terms i'll be regoing into HD. Looking forward to getting the HPX500- but still i gotta work :-) to get money

greetings,
thanks for great replies.
Garry

Well, I really don´t get your point here. So you decided against a 35mm adapter? And what have you learned about 35mm adapters where? Did you own an adapter before?
You can´t afford another DVX now, but aleady consider the HPX?

And your story about the loss of your DVX: you got money from the insurance, but than lost that money in court?
You had an upcomming shoot and a written contract with a client (otherwise it would be hard sueing you...) and you didn´t rent another camera to not get sued?

Also, you still didn´t state what you are going to shoot.
Generally, an adaptor comes at the far end of a purchase list. There´s just so much more gear to consider before stepping up to that game...

[GuitarRy]

Cheers,

thanks for the reply spartacus.

i am still thinking about buying an adapter with the ff but i still don't know if the XL1 is worth mounting it with an adapter. i dont think ill get better results but without an adapter, but my clients desire is the movie look.

i lost the money in court because i couldn't finish the job some1 gave me.

i am also thinking about getting a new solution right now and afterwards saving money for the HPX. where's the point you dont get? the XL1 + adapter would be some temporarly solution for the moment. No gear no money. thats the point.

renting a cam in germany... your funny. im sorry to tell. but the only place where you'd get a camera rent would be berlin. that 600miles from where i live. and though they'd charge you a couple'f a houndret bucks. these companies supply tvchannels.

anyway. i hope i could answer your questions, sparta
greetings,
Garry

[jenningsp]

ok.... if your clients want "the film look" and you think you'll earn more money when you can give them that... get a 35mm adapter, you wont regret it at all.

i bought one and love it to pieces. the one thing i would suggest though is to buy a good one to start with. i bought a letus35A (now discontinued) and it has some issues. edge to edge sharpness is pretty poor, it has some barrel distortion and it vignettes. now i have to buy another one because i need my footage to look perfect.

all the new adapters are awesome though.

the other thing is, you have an XL1 PAL camera. there are two problems with this camera.

it's DV 50i.... you'd ideally want a 25p camera right? DV vs HD is a moot point if you're outputting to DVD.

the great thing about being in a PAL country is 50i can convert to 25p very easily.

check out this article on de-interlacing. ignore the "pull down" stuff as it doesn't affect PAL stuff. - http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/60i/

"Magic Bullet Suit" will be your best friend :D - http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/magicbulletsuite.html

although it's expensive.... and slow.... but i heard about this evil evil guy who should go to jail.. apparently he downloaded it for free off something called bittorrent but he could only get version 2.1. which needs After Effects 6 to work. so he downloaded that as well. i don't condone that sort of stuff :D

to get past how slow it runs.. only de-interlace your movie once you've finished it and leave it to run over night... or you could use a bog standard de-interlacer in you editing software.. but they're not that good and you'll lose resolution. but with magic bullet you wont lose any!!!!

the second problem with the XL1 is the viewfinder... it's not that great for focusing and you cant flip it. so i'd get a flipped adapter or a HD monitor. not both but one or the other...

the XL1 plus magic bullet plus an adapter will look as good as any of the DVX100 plus adapter footage you see on here.

cheers. pat

[Spartacus]

Cheers,

thanks for the reply spartacus.

i am still thinking about buying an adapter with the ff but i still don't know if the XL1 is worth mounting it with an adapter. i dont think ill get better results but without an adapter, but my clients desire is the movie look.

i lost the money in court because i couldn't finish the job some1 gave me.

i am also thinking about getting a new solution right now and afterwards saving money for the HPX. where's the point you dont get? the XL1 + adapter would be some temporarly solution for the moment. No gear no money. thats the point.

renting a cam in germany... your funny. im sorry to tell. but the only place where you'd get a camera rent would be berlin. that 600miles from where i live. and though they'd charge you a couple'f a houndret bucks. these companies supply tvchannels.

anyway. i hope i could answer your questions, sparta
greetings,
Garry

You could buy a good, HD ready adapter now, use it with the XL1 on some projects and earn the money for a better camera - am I´m getting your right?
Ok, so your clients "demand a filmlook", do you really think they mean shallow DoF with that?
Go to a film set, take away all the lighting gear, the set and costume designers, the expensive locations and last but not least the professional actors - do you think anyone will still give a f*ck about the DoF of a 35mm camera?
And hey, without the lights that DoF will be a hell of a little range with the 35mm lens fully open :evil:

What are you shooting? Local commercials? Corporate videos?
Do you have all the other equipment to make your production look "filmlike"...?

A DVX on a DIY dolly will get you more WOWs than a badly focused shot from 35mm adapter with bad lighting.
Speaking of light, adapters eat light.

As for renting, there are rental houses all over Germany,
Berlin, Hamburg, Cologne, Munich and Frankfurt. And that´s only the major citys.
You can rent a A1 for 90€ a day, a Xl1 will cost you about 40€ - and that´s list price...
I still can´t believe you didn´t avoid getting sued through renting another camera, after yours got stolen:huh:!
I´ve been in business for 10 years now and I never had one client who wouldn´t understand a change of the shooting schedule because the equipment got stolen.
Only exception would be shooting an one time only event , but than about how much would we be talking here? 800€ for DVX plus you?
I still don´t get it...

[Spartacus]

although it's expensive.... and slow.... but i heard about this evil evil guy who should go to jail.. apparently he downloaded it for free off something called bittorrent but he could only get version 2.1. which needs After Effects 6 to work. so he downloaded that as well. i don't condone that sort of stuff :D

Hm, maybe it was the same guy who stole Garry´s DVX...?

[Charles Lowthian]

Hm, maybe it was the same guy who stole Garry´s DVX...?

hahahhahahhahhahahhha that's awesome! :grin:

[touloumpas]

Maybe you can use this :

https://store.canon-europe.com/servlet/ControllerServlet?Action=DisplayPage&Env=BASE&Locale=en_GB&SiteID=canoncon&id=ProductDetailsPage&productID=85567900

[Charles Lowthian]

Maybe you can use this :

https://store.canon-europe.com/servlet/ControllerServlet?Action=DisplayPage&Env=BASE&Locale=en_GB&SiteID=canoncon&id=ProductDetailsPage&productID=85567900

hey, have you used this? got any footage or screen grabs?