Sgpro/Brevis

[Cason Aycock]

Iv'e been contemplating on which adapter to get. I loved the Brevis the first time I saw footage on their site. I really like the Sgro as well. Overall, what is the best way to go? I don't mind a little set up. I really just want the footage to look nice and beautiful. Any suggestions???

[William_Robinette]

At this point in the game you will have to make that call your self. You can get excellent results out of either of these machines.

[Tim Naylor]

SG pros: shutter/fstop flexibility, grainless, great bokeh, well built
Brevis Pros: Little light loss, x/y axis adjustment, small/lightweight

Tough one. They've both made big improvements.

[Joseph Stunzi]

Both provide flip units. Lots of people favor the Letus Extreme nowadays. Others like the Redrock M2. You are going to get a great cinema look regardless. Do you already have a rails system? How much are you looking to spend on the setup max?

[Cason Aycock]

I don't have a rail system. I don't mind picnhing a penny out to spend on an adapter as long as it lives up to the the dollar. I know the Brevis is ideal for quick set up and low light loss. Do you know if the Sgpro has a lot of light loss? And what is the set up time for it? The only thing I can say about the Brevis is I hear it's hard to get sharp footage. The Sgpro has seemed to accomplish that for its buyers. And on the Letus Extreme I hear the footage can be grainy with the HVX. Is that true?? Thanks.

Cason

[Kholi]

I don't have a rail system. I don't mind picnhing a penny out to spend on an adapter as long as it lives up to the the dollar. I know the Brevis is ideal for quick set up and low light loss. Do you know if the Sgpro has a lot of light loss? And what is the set up time for it? The only thing I can say about the Brevis is I hear it's hard to get sharp footage. The Sgpro has seemed to accomplish that for its buyers. And on the Letus Extreme I hear the footage can be grainy with the HVX. Is that true?? Thanks.

Cason

No. There are plenty of Hi-Res examples here of footage minus grain coming from the Letus Extreme and two different Cameras.

The SGpro and Letus are as sharp as tacks when you've got great glass. Even sub-par glass goes well with these two.

Are you doing narrative or just run-n-gun documentary stuff?

[Cason Aycock]

Kholi, I'm doing narrative. I guess that would be a better reason to go with the Sgpro or even the Letus Extreme now that you've mentioned it's close to perfect. Would you recommend one over the other? Or is there another adapter I'm not aware of that is better. I know the M2 is good but light suffers from it. Thanks for the feedback.

Cason

[Joseph Stunzi]

Cason,
Everyone has their own opinion on here... you really have to look at it in terms of footage and price options and mounting support options... the whole shibang. I'd suggest searching for videos on here and looking for yourself. You have to compare vibrating versus rotating ground glass. I could give you my two cents, but I really do think you need to read around on here and form your own.

[Kholi]

Kholi, I'm doing narrative. I guess that would be a better reason to go with the Sgpro or even the Letus Extreme now that you've mentioned it's close to perfect. Would you recommend one over the other? Or is there another adapter I'm not aware of that is better. I know the M2 is good but light suffers from it. Thanks for the feedback.

Cason

The M2 unit is a great unit. I had one and honestly loved it enough to keep it instead of going SGpro, although I can say the SGpro seems to exhibit a sharper image.

The reason I asked about what type of work you do was because setup time is actually a one time deal when you're doing narrative. Unless there's a specific shot where you have to take the adapter off, it stays on for the entire shoot. So setup time for narrative guys n'gals may be a moot point, y'know?

End the end it comes down to what you want out of an adapter: high shutter or lower light loss? Better Bokeh or better edge-to-edge sharpness? Like the post above mines, there's so much footage abound that you can just kinda look and tell. What I see is probably gonna differ from what YOU see so y'gotta look for yourself. Don't let me spend your money, cause I didn't earn it.

If I recommended anything at all: don't get a unit without a flip. No matter which one you get, do yourself and your crew a longterm favor and invest in a flip or pre-flipped unit.

[Bryan_Lawler]

Kholi,

I am interested in you opinion which one would be best for doing narrative or just run-n-gun documentaries? I have been trying to decide which one, since they are all about the same price now. I have the DVX right now and am looking to purchase a HVX soon. I was first looking at the Brevis35 but with everything that comes with the M2 at $1,366.45 (plus, $300-500 for the microX Fliip) the Brevis35 would cost $1,835,96 and the Letus35 would cost $1,600.

Thanks,

Bryan

[Jon Neely]

Bryan, I know you asked Knoll, but I'll just give you my opinion, just because I can lol. For run and gun if you want to stay light and compact, then brevis is going to be right for you. But if you need flipped, the EX and the Brevis become about the same size. The Economy version of the EX is lighter than its aluminum brother, so thats also a plus. The M2 is the bulkiest adapter out there, The SGpro uses the spinner gg like the m2, but the SGpro is a slimmed down version of the M2, which I think it is about half as thick. But for run and gun shoots, I still think the Brevis is still the best with light(unflipped) I have used the m2 and Brevis, and the Old letus FE, no not the EX but LE. But from I read here, the brevis with its brightest screen will give you the most flexibility, especially if you are doing Doc. stuff, some adapters might not let you just run into a building with out having to mess with hardware. The SGpro tho( which I orderd) fit my needs best because it for me, I see and here from users here that it give the least changed footage with the best Bokeh. When I import footage, I dont want my footage to have a signature M2 look or EX look, I want to put my own look to my footage, and I dont want to waist time taking off that signature look from the adapter, I just want how I see it threw my directors viewfinder.

Hope that Helps,

Jon

[Bryan_Lawler]

Thanks Jon! All opinions are welcomed. This does help a lot.

Bryan

[hoarp001]

Ive got an SGpro with flip and follow focus + rails on order. Should arrive pretty soon. I did my research and settled on the SG as the footage from it seemed much filmier than the brevis and the letus seemed to provide very milky washed out faint images compared to the SG. The SG looses a little more light than most, but as long as you get good, fast lenses this isn't a problem. I went to see the SG at Wayne's place and I was really impressed. Very solid bit of kit, and even with my 50mm lens on F16 it still produced a fairly bright image. I was also very impressed with Wayne and Glenn, you couldn't find anyone who knew more about this stuff than those two. I come from an engineering background and I know it takes real skill to make something like this and the product they have made is well worth the money. It would still have been worth the money if it was twice as much as I paid for it.

We had the rig up and working on the camera in about 3mins. It would take longer if you needed to re-shim it, but once its set up you just have to click the camera onto the platform, screw the ring onto the front of the camera, then slide the adapter along the rails onto the tube. The FF slides on and tightens down with one screw. The focus rings are a little more complex than the redrock ones, rather than having those rubbery 'fingers' that centre the lens, it has multiple screws that you need to set to fit your lens. Because of this, they recommend you have one ring for each lens, and they are about £30 each. Very smooth system though, i don't regret it at all.

Heres some photos that I took whilst at Wayne's house.
www.peter-hoare.co.uk/sgpro.jpg
www.peter-hoare.co.uk/sgpro2.jpg
www.peter-hoare.co.uk/sgpro3.jpg
www.peter-hoare.co.uk/sgpro4.jpg
www.peter-hoare.co.uk/sgpro5.jpg
www.peter-hoare.co.uk/sgpro7.jpg
www.peter-hoare.co.uk/sgpro8.jpg
www.peter-hoare.co.uk/sgpro9.jpg

[RichardVClark]

Nice pics. I also just ordered the complete SGpro set aswell. The only thing that I was slightly hesitant about was the follow focus. How much play was there? You must have liked it because you bought one :)

[Kholi]

Kholi,

I am interested in you opinion which one would be best for doing narrative or just run-n-gun documentaries? I have been trying to decide which one, since they are all about the same price now. I have the DVX right now and am looking to purchase a HVX soon. I was first looking at the Brevis35 but with everything that comes with the M2 at $1,366.45 (plus, $300-500 for the microX Fliip) the Brevis35 would cost $1,835,96 and the Letus35 would cost $1,600.

Thanks,

Bryan

I think Dennis Wood would agree that, for situations where extreme light comes into play (while the Brevis CF1 is light efficient) you will want to have a Mattebox and Filters on your camera to maximize image quality with the Brevis. Keep this in mind, add the extra weight and length. You would also want a Mattebox and Filters for the LetusEX to control light, because with both adapters stoppding down sees grain. Thus, using external filters is a good idea. With the M2 and SGpro's spinning GG option, you're gonna get to close the taking lens down much further, and up your shutter speeds. You're less likely to be FORCED to used a mattebox with these two.

The Brevis, naked, would be a great choice for Documentary, handheld style applications. This is a non-flipped unit where you won't need rails and extras. However, I wouldn't be using the fastest CF screen, I would definitely use a 2 or 3 because I have no idea how you could even begin to control the odd light thing going on without external filters. And image control is a do or you die situation.

For narrative, letusEX is my choice for overall image quality. In locked down situations where you can control light, etc, I honestly feel like the package is the best overall. That's me. SGpro's got the Bokeh crown, but for versatility I honestly feel the LetusEX is it for narrative work til someone comes out with a better package (more than likely more expensive). I can do handheld with the LetusEx, and the more I do it the less the weight is a problem considering that weight allows for smoother movements (when tolerable). The SGpro would be my immediate second, given it's awesome reputation and what I've seen first hand.

To be honest, I could probably do a handheld documentary with the LetusEx now (thanks to holding it for so long) and never have an issue. You get used to things.

You should keep in mind that with the Brevis non-flipped or any non-flipped adapter you're gonna want an external monitor because... well... doing handheld with an upside down image isn't all that great. So at this point, all the weight you're saving ends up adding more anyway.

[Jon Neely]

the only thing I dont like about the FF's is that there is no accessory port, so I cant put a fast crank or whip on it :(, when that is changed and if I am still with out an FF, I will order one! Nice pics, I am hoping that mine will arrive not this fri, but next Fri, but I think that would be under best conditions... good luck everyone with there SG orders.


Jon

[RichardVClark]

Jon,

How long ago did you order your SGpro? Wayne also said that they will be coming out with an adapter for whips and cranks on the current follow focus.

[Kholi]

Bryan, I know you asked Knoll, but I'll just give you my opinion, just because I can lol. For run and gun if you want to stay light and compact, then brevis is going to be right for you. But if you need flipped, the EX and the Brevis become about the same size. The Economy version of the EX is lighter than its aluminum brother, so thats also a plus.

They all come about the same size once you've flipped the units. They'll all need rails for sure. So, at that point size is moot. I agree.


The M2 is the bulkiest adapter out there

It's "fatter" but just as weighty as the rest.


When I import footage, I dont want my footage to have a signature M2 look or EX look, I want to put my own look to my footage, and I dont want to waist time taking off that signature look from the adapter, I just want how I see it threw my directors viewfinder.

Every single adapter has a look, and that's including the SGpro. On top of that, shooting with HVX's is a look all on it's own. To an extent, the adapters should take credit for image: the rest of it belongs to the shooter and how well he/she has studied their equipment and the reasoning behind a pleasant image. Composition, lighting, subject, foreground and background, etc.

[Lenilenapi]

I have no idea how you could even begin to control the odd light thing going on without external filters.

What odd light thing are you talking about?
Do you have a complaint about the Brevis image - if so what is it?
Have I missed something that has been revealed here?


Lenny Levy

[Kholi]

What odd light thing are you talking about?
Do you have a complaint about the Brevis image - if so what is it?
Have I missed something that has been revealed here?


Lenny Levy

The light thing. Ask Dennis, he'll tell you that he recommends an external Filter when using the CF1LE screen to control the light better. I believe he's been using one on his footage since he's gotten the .6 and .9.

There's nothing that hasn't been revealed before: I'll be the first one to tell you to look at the right side of the Brevis image before you purchase. Check Beat Takeshi's recent Brevis + HVX stills: on the right side of EVERY image there's a smear. And it's not his lenses. Because it's in all of the Brevis footage I've seen minus the flipped version.

[Lenilenapi]

I'm going to sleep after this, but Kholi I just looked at Beat Takeshi's beautiful screen shots and I don't see that smear. i've never seen it, at this point I wish I did.

Re the filter thing. I don't know - a number of us including Barry disagree with Dennis about the need for external filters outside. I haven't seen an example of a problem but I'm open to seeing it if someone will post it.

Meanwhile I still don't know what "odd light thing" you refer to. This thread has talked about odd linearity in exposure, but nothing about odd artifacting in the image. I would hate to see someone make a buying decision based on those remarks. But i guess they can look for the smear themselves, maybe I'm just not catching it. Beat's images speak for themselves though.

There is some odd stuff happening on many of these adapters and screens but I don't think its specific to the Brevis , and there is odd stuff in the Letus as well.

Lovely work as always Mr Takeshi - thanks for posting - looks filmic to me.

- Lenny

[Kholi]

http://www.puffinfilms.com/Sisters/screenies04.jpg

How can you not see the image fall off on the right side of that still? Beat notices it, USLatin sees it, IanD sees it. I'm not crazy.

That's not an out of focus area, that's not entirely lens falloff, either. That's part of the Brevis' doing. It's not that his shots aren't "filmic", it's that there's obviously something off on the right side of the screen. It's not his fault, his stuff looks great. Aram's shiz always looks good and he's getting better.

The Odd light thing is the fact that the CF1LE (is that the right name for it) is too bright. That's what I see. You may have a different thought about it, I see something completely off about the image when using that screen. It's not light efficiency to me, it's something going wrong but that's just me. Whatever about the light thing, I dont' have anything to say about it til Barry gets his unit and gives the lowdown from an unbiased perspective.

The smear? I'll point it out because I see it in everything Brevis. The Brevis w/flip? Different story entirely. Like I told USLatin, get the Brevis for sure if he wants it. Don't get it without the flip. It's not like you can't take it off when you want. But the flip is what's giving the Brevis it's edge-to-edge.

Heck, please, someone with tubes or spacers put it in your Brevis and do a before and after for me. I'm willing to bet the issue disappears entirely when the Brevis's achromat is further away from the HVX's lens.

Granted, it COULD be the wide angles doing it. Not to totally discount it. But, I honestly don't think that it's the wide angle's fault.

[Lenilenapi]

I did see what you're pointing to in this shot, but I don't see it in any of the others, so I figure it could be due to lens or center weighted focusing . Also in this shot I see it in both sides.

I do agree that a buyer should get it with a flip.

I honestly have no idea what you mean by "Too bright" though. The odd thing at f1.4 to f2.8 or 4 is perfectly understandable to me and I have explained why. The guy who looked at his cameras viewfinder also described it perfectly.


I guess we'll just disagree.

[Jon Neely]

Richard, I placed my order on 1/1/08, and Wayne said it should be shipping this Friday, but from what it sounds like is that he still has some room on the batch that mine is in, because he said there was a 1 week lead time, so so might be lucky and get yours the same time I get mine, but then again, dont take my word for that, I might be completely wrong, so be safe and PM wayne, he is really good at responding to his PMs. Thank you Kholi for the clear up, we should team up some day on a shoot, If you ever need some help or another adapter, just pm me, Im in fresno, so its about 4 hr drive to LA, but hey if you got a cool shoot that you could use some help with, and I'm open, I'm down for that.

Jon

[Jon Neely]

http://www.puffinfilms.com/Sisters/screenies04.jpg

How can you not see the image fall off on the right side of that still? Beat notices it, USLatin sees it, IanD sees it. I'm not crazy.

That's not an out of focus area, that's not entirely lens falloff, either. That's part of the Brevis' doing. It's not that his shots aren't "filmic", it's that there's obviously something off on the right side of the screen. It's not his fault, his stuff looks great. Aram's shiz always looks good and he's getting better.

The Odd light thing is the fact that the CF1LE (is that the right name for it) is too bright. That's what I see. You may have a different thought about it, I see something completely off about the image when using that screen. It's not light efficiency to me, it's something going wrong but that's just me. Whatever about the light thing, I dont' have anything to say about it til Barry gets his unit and gives the lowdown from an unbiased perspective.

The smear? I'll point it out because I see it in everything Brevis. The Brevis w/flip? Different story entirely. Like I told USLatin, get the Brevis for sure if he wants it. Don't get it without the flip. It's not like you can't take it off when you want. But the flip is what's giving the Brevis it's edge-to-edge.

Heck, please, someone with tubes or spacers put it in your Brevis and do a before and after for me. I'm willing to bet the issue disappears entirely when the Brevis's achromat is further away from the HVX's lens.

Granted, it COULD be the wide angles doing it. Not to totally discount it. But, I honestly don't think that it's the wide angle's fault.

I too have seen this in some footage with the brevis, and, Dont shoot me, but some of the early footage of Philip Bloom's footage of Kew Gardens, there is some noticeable fall off with the Letus EX with the EX1, now Im not sure if it was the camera or adapter that was doing it, because the early EX1s had a backfocus problem. Im just saying is that maybe its a hereditary thing with vibrating GGs... thats all I'm going to say about that. :)

Jon

[Kholi]

I too have seen this in some footage with the brevis, and, Dont shoot me, but some of the early footage of Philip Bloom's footage of Kew Gardens, there is some noticeable fall off with the Letus EX with the EX1, now Im not sure if it was the camera or adapter that was doing it, because the early EX1s had a backfocus problem. Im just saying is that maybe its a hereditary thing with vibrating GGs... thats all I'm going to say about that. :)

Jon

It's the EX-1, not the Letus. The le brothers are fixing the EX-1 issue.