Final Tripod advice...miller vs. cartoni

[walnutcrunch]

After much debate and much help from here it is time to finally buy.

With local dealers we've narrowed down our choices to a cartoni laser system with alloy 2-stage and mid-level spreaders, and a miller arrow 25 with alloy 2-stage.

The miller head, is an easy choice on quality alone. It feels amazing. Cartoni is good, but not wow.

However the Cartoni is 1800 bucks cheaper than the miller setup and it is really pushing our budget.

We don't shoot everyday. We shoot once a week on average. So we can get away with less that bomb proof.

The Cartoni is rated at 22 pounds which may be a little light for the 500, canon 2x, dionic 90, and the Panny 80/focus in red/camera monitor.

Thoughts?
Is there a way to put different legs on the miller kit and cut cost? Anything else?

We haven't looked at them but we could get the top end manfrotto and save ourselves 2500 over the miller.

[EditingFX]

I've got the miller DS25 head (maybe the same as arrow25?). no complaints. yeah, you can put it on any sticks with a 100mm bowl. my only comment would be - remember, the support will long outlast the camera.

[hunter richards]

I have a ds10 (I dont use it anymore for my hpx500) and I dont think I would go the miller route again. They are great heads, no doubt, but after using an oconnor, I really like the usability of the oconnor (UltamateDV). That doesnt really answer your question...but if you can find a nice used oconnor that was taken care of, I would snatch it up. It may even be a bit cheaper too.

[Tim Naylor]

Cartoni Laser is a toy compared to the Miller Arrow 25. And its payload is too light for an HPX (camera weight should never be at the upper end of payload capacity). Had a Cartoni and sold it. Bought the Miller Arrow 25 and it's by far one of the best investments I've made. It's motion is comparable to a Sachtler 18 but at almost half the price. Cartoni's only get good once you go Gamma head and beyond. The friction on the laser is not true fluid module based but based on two discs rubbing against eachother. The Miller is a true fluid resistance and it shows in its resistance curve (Steep at the start then tapers off). At 2500 for the head, it's a steal. Considering your HPX package ran you 20G, this is small line item. When you zoom in all the way and are trying to get your money shot you won't regret the Miller, especially with an unpredictable subject. You'll love it even more when you realize nothing for 2500 compares. I tested them all and they all fall short. Vinten falls way short. Sachtler 8 and 12 get crushed. Cartoni Gamma gets edged out. The fluid motion on the Miller is only superseded by O'Conner (at twice the price).

For legs I use the Miller VJ Solo. Great for 800 bucks. Gitzo also has a wonderful set of good priced legs. Manfrotto 100mm bowl is not compatible with Miller 100mm head. Will require some kind of shimming. For High Hat I use a Birns and Sawyer 100mm (needs three washers at the base of the legs to work with Miller). It's a good price and a lot cheaper than Miller's Hi hat.

[alexdias]

Tim,

Is the Miller Arrow 25 enough for the HPX or should we go with the Arrow 40?
I mostly do ENG, run & gun docs.

[Noel Evans]

Miller kicks arse, great Australian product. Personally I use Vinten :P

[xianchi]

I have the Miller 25 with the Solo sticks and love it. It's pretty dreamy after having a Bogen for so long.

You do know that Miller invented the fluid head, right?

[mcgeedigital]

The higher end Millers really are a good value.

[Ed Waters]

Have you looked for demo. I replaced my Cartoni beta with a demo Satchler DV15. I got it for 3900.00 with 2 stage CF legs. The difference is large. The tripod basically lasts forever. Don't go low on this part of your package.