What Do I Need & How Can I Find It

[Mark Anthony]

Hello Everyone! I am a newbie to the business, have recently taken video production casses, nothing major; 4-month program (not traditional big time film school) all that fun stuff, actually just finshed......Now for the questions I so despartley have,,, But first.............


My Boring A$$ Story

After months of *mind frying* research I have come to the conclusion of what I need and can afford. Now that I am ready to take the dive on a camera and various accessories I need help. Given the fact that I have small amount of money to spend 16-17k and am a 34 year old newbie (ouch that hurts, hate the way that sounds) I need to make an intelligent and cost effective choice.

Again, after months of research I have made my selection, none other than the famous HVX 200 with a Red Rock (indi bundle) adapter, Nikon mount, ordering tomorrow morning actually.


What I need and can afford

Matte Box- Do not need name brand high end stuff something that will work with HVX and RR adapter. Perferably a nice looking oversized but inexpensive, maybe some kind of no name indie type product that works well. My price range $500-600 maybe I am dreaming. Did see a large flag & dep dish looking Canavision on BH photo.com. Don't know if that would work on HVX RR set up and is there a reason its so cheap is it used for a rare purpose?

Tripod-Once again, inexpensive around $500-600 fluid head and can support the weight of the HVX with matte,RR adapter, lenses, monitor, etc,,,, again no namemers are ok as long as functional product.

Lenses- where can I find? Ebay????? Which of the Nikons should I get? I need maybe 2-3 good lenses, budget on this around $400 for all 3 if can get cheaper great, where? Also need education on lenses AF, AI, AIS??? which ones should I get not very familiar with lenses; quick education is appreciated.

I have searched this and other forums, looking for updated/current info and deals....

BTW getting Barry Greens HVX book and DVD with purchase. I have read many of his post,on this and other forums, I think he is nothing short of brilliant. I hope this thread will find his way as well and can sheed light as to what areas should I foucus on my purchase.

Sorry for my low budget........ I have 7k spent on HVX pack with batts and stuff, 6k jazzed up mac book pro, FCP 2 oh and lens adapter. So far have spent over 15k- douh!!

Many Thanks!!!!! & noting but health, wealth and happiness to you all in 2008!

[jcoxshooter]

A tripod is a must. The Cartoni F101 Focus Aluminum Tripod System is a good start. More than your 500-600 budget but worth it. Going with the best tripod system you can afford will be as good of investment as you can make for your new camera.

Lights, and audio are something you could rent but are things to look at having in your arsenal.

Arri Soft banks kits are great, but pricey. You can find many other affordable options, Do a search here and you will find many options.

Audio- Wireless, boom, and headphones are all things to look at and see what you can afford when you a chance.


Just wondering did you look at buying a used HVX. There are alot of good deals out there and would be a great way to save a couple grand.

[Mark Anthony]

A tripod is a must. The Cartoni F101 Focus Aluminum Tripod System is a good start. More than your 500-600 budget but worth it. Going with the best tripod system you can afford will be as good of investment as you can make for your new camera.

Lights, and audio are something you could rent but are things to look at having in your arsenal.

Arri Soft banks kits are great, but pricey. You can find many other affordable options, Do a search here and you will find many options.

Audio- Wireless, boom, and headphones are all things to look at and see what you can afford when you a chance.


Just wondering did you look at buying a used HVX. There are alot of good deals out there and would be a great way to save a couple grand.


I have check on Ebay and other sites for used HVX, however all I find is Grey market or shady people who tell me the HVX does not come with a lens. Also warranty is a big factor for me also, given the price of this camera new sounds SAFER (IMHO). I will look in to your tripod recomendation. Any thoughts on Matte boxes, also your suggestion of sound is excellent! Anything you can tell me as far as price range best model to get for my low budget buck and which stores or sites carry those products? Mucho Gracias!!!!

[David Saraceno]

There are at least a couple of low mileage HVX200s for sale in the marketplace from reputable sellers.

[puredrifting]

Hi Mark:

So how is J-Lo? How is the pregnancy coming along? I am sure that nobody ever kids you about that, right? ;-)

Hold that credit card off until Monday. You should tell us what you want to shoot and what your goals are for your work. All you are talking about is what to blow your money on, not what you are trying to accomplish.

You sound as if you are interested in a Red Rock M2? Do you really need a 35mm adapter? I say this because when all is said and done, a 35mm adapter kit for everything is quite a few thousand dollars (mine was $6k and I didn't even get top of the line). Fine if you need one, but it sounds as you are going to scrimp on tripod, audio, lighting to get one? If so, bad decision. A good quality tripod, audio gear and lighting are a heck of a lot more important than a 35mm adapter and matte box.

Please give us some BG on what you are trying to accomplish. You are a newbie so don't go wasting your money on the wrong stuff.

All the best,

Dan

[Mark Anthony]

Hi Mark:

So how is J-Lo? How is the pregnancy coming along? I am sure that nobody ever kids you about that, right? ;-)

Hold that credit card off until Monday. You should tell us what you want to shoot and what your goals are for your work. All you are talking about is what to blow your money on, not what you are trying to accomplish.

You sound as if you are interested in a Red Rock M2? Do you really need a 35mm adapter? I say this because when all is said and done, a 35mm adapter kit for everything is quite a few thousand dollars (mine was $6k and I didn't even get top of the line). Fine if you need one, but it sounds as you are going to scrimp on tripod, audio, lighting to get one? If so, bad decision. A good quality tripod, audio gear and lighting are a heck of a lot more important than a 35mm adapter and matte box.

Please give us some BG on what you are trying to accomplish. You are a newbie so don't go wasting your money on the wrong stuff.

All the best,

Dan




To be quite honest I am looking to do swimming pool, flooring, mortgage co's, and law firm, etc... type commercials. (The law firm ones kill me, espec. when they show actual client saying "I got a DUI and killed 5 kids at a park, Larry H. Parker got me off with no jail time now I am free to do it again) makes me sick


oh ya back to answers, looking to do good quality local business commercials in PHOENIX AZ & San Diego CA... HOWEVER, I would like to start doing some indie film work aswell.... Looking for that film look and cinematic effect,,, want mind blowing images with depth of field due to a script we have will be in forest and wide open spaces where DOF will be critical for the effects and shots I am looking to capture. The HVX is something I am definately sold on open to suggestions, I don't mind going cheap on Matt Box like this one

http://cgi.ebay.com/Large-Format-Aluminum-Matte-Box-HD-DV-4x4-Filter-Holder_W0QQitemZ230211365674QQihZ013QQcategoryZ643 29QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


So commercials for work aka pay check, film for personal, hopfully becomes work w/pay. I guess I will spring more for a Tripod any suggestions under 1k or should I just fork out for someting good heard the manfrottos are good..... And do you have any suggestions on sound,,,,, Lighting is covered have friend with tons of lighting

Thanks!!!

[jcoxshooter]

Here are a couple of links on the mattebox you are looking at
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=120075&highlight=indie+snap

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=45519&highlight=indie+snap

here are a couple of links for audio options. the shotgun is the sennheiser me66 I have used it for years and works great for the price. I also have the same boom pole and love it.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/421933-REG/Sennheiser_ME66BK_ME66_K6_Shotgun_Microphone.html

here is a link on wireless.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/388439-REG/Sennheiser_EW512P_MKE2_EW_GOLD_A_G2_500_Series_.ht ml

I have this system and like it alot. Have used the 100 series to and didn't like the sound quality.

[jcoxshooter]

here is another link for a option on a shotgun setup. its with rode ntg-1 I just bought the rode to be used on my HPX-500 and is very nice. Its not the end all of mics but would be a great starter mic till you see what you like. plus u could mount it on the camera if you have a run and gun shoot

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/461493-REG/Rode__NTG_1_Shotgun_Microphone.html

[puredrifting]

To be quite honest I am looking to do swimming pool, flooring, mortgage co's, and law firm, etc... type commercials. (The law firm ones kill me, espec. when they show actual client saying "I got a DUI and killed 5 kids at a park, Larry H. Parker got me off with no jail time now I am free to do it again) makes me sick


oh ya back to answers, looking to do good quality local business commercials in PHOENIX AZ & San Diego CA... HOWEVER, I would like to start doing some indie film work aswell.... Looking for that film look and cinematic effect,,, want mind blowing images with depth of field due to a script we have will be in forest and wide open spaces where DOF will be critical for the effects and shots I am looking to capture. The HVX is something I am definately sold on open to suggestions, I don't mind going cheap on Matt Box like this one

http://cgi.ebay.com/Large-Format-Aluminum-Matte-Box-HD-DV-4x4-Filter-Holder_W0QQitemZ230211365674QQihZ013QQcategoryZ643 29QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


So commercials for work aka pay check, film for personal, hopfully becomes work w/pay. I guess I will spring more for a Tripod any suggestions under 1k or should I just fork out for someting good heard the manfrottos are good..... And do you have any suggestions on sound,,,,, Lighting is covered have friend with tons of lighting

Thanks!!!

Hi Mark:

Okay, so it sounds as if you do want to have a 35mm adapter. Have you done your research and decided on the M2 or did you just hear that it was the one to get? As you know, there is a huge and active forum here on DVXUser that discusses nothing BUT which 35mm adapter is best so I will leave you to it. Just keep in mind that the M2, while it looks great, is reportedly a PITA to setup and calibrate (I have shot with one but it was pre-setup for me by the owner) so I can't comment directly about that, but I will say that the M2 is the slowest speed adapter on the market. It loses about 2 to 2.5 stops versus around .5 to 1 stop for the competition. So if you have crew and lights, M2 is not a problem. If you are a little short on lighting, lighting crew and time, the lack of low light capability may be a hindrance to you. FWIW, I own the Letus Extreme, it's a great adapter as are the Brevis and the SG Pro as well. All have their relative strengths and weaknesses.

Assuming you need a matte box, there are several cheapie candidates. There is the GearDear, IndieMatte, a bunch of no name Indian stuff on Ebay, Matteblox, etc. I did my research and purchased the Cinevate matte box. It is $500.00 and quite good. For $500.00, it has two rotating stages, two french flags, side flags, donuts to fit it to various diameter lenses. It is a very good piece of gear for the money and I have been pretty satisfied with it.

That said, the new Red Rock Micro mattebox looks really sweet. It is more $$ than the Cinevate but has some nicer features. Barry Green owns the Vocas, lots of others own the Petroff, Cavision and Chroisziel, etc. but these are all far north of $500.00

I also did the research and you will find that the Red Rock Micro follow focus is one of the best values out there. Very good quality and not a lot of money. There are also the Indie Focus and bunch of other newer really low cost units but I can't vouch for them because I have not used them. I have used my Red Rock and it is outstanding for $645.00

As far as tripods, I cannot, in good faith, recommend a Bogen. I own two of them. They are really not very good. If you are on the cheap, buy a Libec LS-38, about $650.00. If you want a real tripod, Sachtler and O'Connor are acknowledged as the best money can buy along with Panther. I used to like the Vintens but the lower end Vintens are now Bogens since the same company (Vitec) owns Sachtler, Bogen and Vinten, along with a few others, I think?. I own the Sachtler DV-6SB, it can carry 20lbs and is an excellent tripod. I have it setup with the Miller Solo DV carbon legs. It is a multi-height non-spreader tripod that can go from touching the ground like a hi-hat all of the way up to, I think something like 70" high. Amazingly great setup, I highly recommend it. But you are at about $2,400.00 for a pro setup like this. Also for a cheapie setup that is superior to the Bogens that everyone else will tell you are "fine", I would recommend the Cartoni Focus. It is cheap and better than the Bogens. It is at least a "pro" type head. The Sachtler is better but costs twice as much. Tripods are debated endlessly here but basically Bogens, with the exception of their top of line heads that cost as much as Sachtlers, are pretty lousy. Most of the people that think that they are "fine" have not had a chance to use a tripod like a Sachtler, O'Connor or Panther so take that FWIW.

As far as audio, you sound as if you need to get educated before you start buying stuff. I have a few articles for you to at least look over before you start buying stuff
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/location_sound.html - basics of location sound
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/tv_pilot_hvx_200_brockett.html - how to shoot a pilot wth the HVX
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html - massive microphone review

Just as with your tripod, you are shooting yourself in the foot if you skimp on audio. Buy quality stuff, buy the right stuff and know your limitations, you cannot record a ten person roundtable with a single mic. As far as wireless, only use them when absolutely necessary, the cheapest XLR cable sounds better than the best wireless system. For what you want to do, frankly, you should just hire a professional sound mixer. He/she will have everything you need and will know how to use it and you will end up with great sound. Try to do it yourself and chances are it won't sound good until you know what you are doing with audio, which can take years to learn.

All my best,

Dan

[Mark Anthony]

Here are a couple of links on the mattebox you are looking at
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=120075&highlight=indie+snap

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=45519&highlight=indie+snap

here are a couple of links for audio options. the shotgun is the sennheiser me66 I have used it for years and works great for the price. I also have the same boom pole and love it.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/421933-REG/Sennheiser_ME66BK_ME66_K6_Shotgun_Microphone.html

here is a link on wireless.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/388439-REG/Sennheiser_EW512P_MKE2_EW_GOLD_A_G2_500_Series_.ht ml

I have this system and like it alot. Have used the 100 series to and didn't like the sound quality.


Great links,,, Very informative.... Wondering if on the sound the ME66BK or shotgun mic on the second post is better. Sound is very important, therefore; I would like the great sound acheivement when recording onto the camera. And Wow Wireless mics. are pricey but I am sure they are worth it,,,,

[puredrifting]

I have never used a Rode but I do own the Me-66. It's "okay" but definitely not the best sounding mic for the money.

If you are in the low budget range, I strongly suggest auditioning the Oktava MK-012 and the Audio-Technica AT875r. I own the Me-66 and the AT875r and I think that the AT875r at less than half of the price sounds as good, if not better.

The Oktava is very good too, if you are going to be recording a lot of different environments, it comes with hyper, cardioid and omni capsules and is very inexpensive.

Best,

Dan

[Mark Anthony]

Hi Mark:

Okay, so it sounds as if you do want to have a 35mm adapter. Have you done your research and decided on the M2 or did you just hear that it was the one to get? As you know, there is a huge and active forum here on DVXUser that discusses nothing BUT which 35mm adapter is best so I will leave you to it. Just keep in mind that the M2, while it looks great, is reportedly a PITA to setup and calibrate (I have shot with one but it was pre-setup for me by the owner) so I can't comment directly about that, but I will say that the M2 is the slowest speed adapter on the market. It loses about 2 to 2.5 stops versus around .5 to 1 stop for the competition. So if you have crew and lights, M2 is not a problem. If you are a little short on lighting, lighting crew and time, the lack of low light capability may be a hindrance to you. FWIW, I own the Letus Extreme, it's a great adapter as are the Brevis and the SG Pro as well. All have their relative strengths and weaknesses.

Assuming you need a matte box, there are several cheapie candidates. There is the GearDear, IndieMatte, a bunch of no name Indian stuff on Ebay, Matteblox, etc. I did my research and purchased the Cinevate matte box. It is $500.00 and quite good. For $500.00, it has two rotating stages, two french flags, side flags, donuts to fit it to various diameter lenses. It is a very good piece of gear for the money and I have been pretty satisfied with it.

That said, the new Red Rock Micro mattebox looks really sweet. It is more $$ than the Cinevate but has some nicer features. Barry Green owns the Vocas, lots of others own the Petroff, Cavision and Chroisziel, etc. but these are all far north of $500.00

I also did the research and you will find that the Red Rock Micro follow focus is one of the best values out there. Very good quality and not a lot of money. There are also the Indie Focus and bunch of other newer really low cost units but I can't vouch for them because I have not used them. I have used my Red Rock and it is outstanding for $645.00

As far as tripods, I cannot, in good faith, recommend a Bogen. I own two of them. They are really not very good. If you are on the cheap, buy a Libec LS-38, about $650.00. If you want a real tripod, Sachtler and O'Connor are acknowledged as the best money can buy along with Panther. I used to like the Vintens but the lower end Vintens are now Bogens since the same company (Vitec) owns Sachtler, Bogen and Vinten, along with a few others, I think?. I own the Sachtler DV-6SB, it can carry 20lbs and is an excellent tripod. I have it setup with the Miller Solo DV carbon legs. It is a multi-height non-spreader tripod that can go from touching the ground like a hi-hat all of the way up to, I think something like 70" high. Amazingly great setup, I highly recommend it. But you are at about $2,400.00 for a pro setup like this. Also for a cheapie setup that is superior to the Bogens that everyone else will tell you are "fine", I would recommend the Cartoni Focus. It is cheap and better than the Bogens. It is at least a "pro" type head. The Sachtler is better but costs twice as much. Tripods are debated endlessly here but basically Bogens, with the exception of their top of line heads that cost as much as Sachtlers, are pretty lousy. Most of the people that think that they are "fine" have not had a chance to use a tripod like a Sachtler, O'Connor or Panther so take that FWIW.

As far as audio, you sound as if you need to get educated before you start buying stuff. I have a few articles for you to at least look over before you start buying stuff
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/location_sound.html - basics of location sound
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/tv_pilot_hvx_200_brockett.html - how to shoot a pilot wth the HVX
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html - massive microphone review

Just as with your tripod, you are shooting yourself in the foot if you skimp on audio. Buy quality stuff, buy the right stuff and know your limitations, you cannot record a ten person roundtable with a single mic. As far as wireless, only use them when absolutely necessary, the cheapest XLR cable sounds better than the best wireless system. For what you want to do, frankly, you should just hire a professional sound mixer. He/she will have everything you need and will know how to use it and you will end up with great sound. Try to do it yourself and chances are it won't sound good until you know what you are doing with audio, which can take years to learn.

All my best,

Dan



Dan, all I can say is THANK YOU!!!!!... For taking the time to give me an education on such a difficult set of choices I have, atleast to me. I really appreciate the links; stayed up late reading every thread provided by every poster and this is all very good info.... I wish I was as proficent as some of you (being rather newbie) as there is just to much shit to learn and purchase....

Here thinking I sine have over 100k (left over from the sale of my former biz) in the bank, I am sure 15k-17k tops will provide me with killer equipment. Boy was I wrong!!!! I need to use a whole 100k... But I can't, I have to be frugal with my cash as I am afraid of starving (AGAIN) and not to mention I have 3 kids and a wife.... almost forgot I have the mistress condo to pay for aswell,,, just kinding about the mistress,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, she pays for her condo:cheesy:


My home is mortgaged to the hill from before the sale of the biz,, paid off crap, cars, class A RV, sh*t I didn't need, paid down the house (Still owe almost a million, douh!!!!!) And with $6,500.00 a month mortgage; better than the 8k it was, I am now shaking in my boots and think I should not go over 18k until and rent some stuff till this thing pays off.

Well Dan, that is my awful explanation of where I stand in life, However I do LOVE the cameras edit, equip, toys....... man this biz is awsome... the cost is the heart & wallet killer!

Any thoughts from anyone who has laid it all on the line like my dumb @$$.....


Any info on which lens is best for the RR still looking of lens edu. with NIKON

[Ducatimark]

Mark -

Feel free to go to my web site www.newmediadevcorp.com (http://www.newmediadevcorp.com). My equipment list is on there. I started like you over a year ago in this business. I had to take a six month hiatus when my wife left her law firm job this past summer. We went from being in the top 5% of wage earning households to the bottom 5%!

I had to go back to work for the last six months to get health insurance and some mortgage money, but now I'm back full time with my business. And the wife is going back full time to her old job. YEEHA! I've given myself another 8 months to get things going before I start thinking it's time to put the Panny on eBay.

Have you already started serious talks with clients? Do you have a demo reel or are these people that know and trust you and are just giving you a chance?
I found I haven't had to give work away, but that trying to command big dollars right off is very difficult. You will need an enormous amount of time learing editing, compositing, lighting, audio, etc... I read manuals and online info at least 2 hours a day, watch my lighting and Hollywood Camera work DVDs endlessly, and pay attention to what the experienced pro's on this web site say. In the end, it's not the equipment that makes you great at this, it's how you use it. I was out practicing at 7 am this morning in my front yard with my HVX and Letus Extreme. I was going through the recording setup menus and realized I had the camera on SETUP for P2 card. I had just read (for at least the fourth time) in Barry Green's HVX book to leave it off, but somehow had missed it in setting up my camera countless times over the past year. That's just one of an endless stream of details that you have to get right to get the fantastic footage that you see in your mind. Same goes for shutter, iris, white balance, scene file settings, etc... Oh yeah, and where you point it. And never zoom until Spielberg calls.

Anyway, it sounds like you have the passion. Just be prepared for the 12-15 hour days. BTW, I've spent about $40K so far and that seems to be the tip of the iceberg. This business is like buying a boat, you always want one five feet longer....

Now about equipment. I just bought the Letus Extreme a few months ago and am using Nikon lenses. They look good, but rack focusing is nearly impossible to get right. They just aren't made for it. I have a Red Rock FF, and it's fine, but the lenses are only good in one focal direction (either in or out). Have you looked at what just one cine lens would cost you? Another thing, you'll be begging for a monitor to focus with. I just ordered a Carrion (search) because the Panasonic 8" was hitting close to $2500. Don't have a mattebox yet, hoping the RR will start shipping. Check out Hyson or Cinevate otherwise.

One place I have not listened to the real pros on this site about is the Tripod/Head issue. I have a Manfrotto 528XB that weighs a ton with a 501HDV head. It's great as long as you don't want to pan or tilt. I pretty much leave it locked down. I am saving to get a real setup next.

My light kit is a mixed bag of ARRI and Lowell, plus a med and large softbox. Lot's of threads on this subject. I use a Rode condenser and a shotgun for my audio work plus a couple of K-Tek boom poles. Don't forget to re-record your dialogue to get the best sound. I wouldn't bother with wireless unless you do weddings or really need it. The comment about the cables is dead on. Same thing applies to networking your computers.

Good luck with the enterprise. Look forward to seeing your posts!

Mark G
Richmond, Va

[jcoxshooter]

I agree a wired mic is the best way to go but is not always the option especially when you have the client who wants to walk and talk and you don't have the budget for a sound guy. Plus depending on what you do you may have a client ask for a wireless. I do alot of eng work and i have to have wireless.

I had some advice given to me that I consider good advice when I started my company 7 years ago. Its from a guy who has been in th business for years. It was simple. Don't turn down any business when you are first starting. Get your name out there and when you are established you can be selective on the work you do. The more you do the more you will learn.

I will say before you do a paying job make sure you know you gear inside and out, as soon as you think have it all down soemthing will throw you a curve ball.

I agree with Mark, pratice is something that will make you better prepared for you shoots.

Good luck and definatley hang out around here to get some great advice.

[puredrifting]

Dan, all I can say is THANK YOU!!!!!... For taking the time to give me an education on such a difficult set of choices I have, atleast to me. I really appreciate the links; stayed up late reading every thread provided by every poster and this is all very good info.... I wish I was as proficent as some of you (being rather newbie) as there is just to much shi* to learn and purchase....

Here thinking I sine have over 100k (left over from the sale of my former biz) in the bank, I am sure 15k-17k tops will provide me with killer equipment. Boy was I wrong!!!! I need to use a whole 100k... But I can't, I have to be frugal with my cash as I am afraid of starving (AGAIN) and not to mention I have 3 kids and a wife.... almost forgot I have the mistress condo to pay for aswell,,, just kinding about the mistress,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, she pays for her condo:cheesy:


My home is mortgaged to the hill from before the sale of the biz,, paid off crap, cars, class A RV, sh*t I didn't need, paid down the house (Still owe almost a million, douh!!!!!) And with $6,500.00 a month mortgage; better than the 8k it was, I am now shaking in my boots and think I should not go over 18k until and rent some stuff till this thing pays off.

Well Dan, that is my awful explanation of where I stand in life, However I do LOVE the cameras edit, equip, toys....... man this biz is awsome... the cost is the heart & wallet killer!

Any thoughts from anyone who has laid it all on the line like my dumb @$$.....


Any info on which lens is best for the RR still looking of lens edu. with NIKON

Hi Mark:

A lot of risk you are taking. $6,500.00 per month mortgage probably means your nut to just pay your bills must be around $10,000.00 to $12,000.00 per month? Does your wife work or is she a stay at home mom? I will be the first one to tell you that this is the wrong business to be in if you care about making money. You should not spend any money unless you have paying projects lined up. How many projects do you have lined up? What are the budgets? How much profit will you make on them?

The most common mistake in film/video and starting a production company is buying a bunch of gear and waiting for the business to walk through the door. Major mistake and all backwards. I never buy gear anymore unless I have a job to pay for it. Buying gear without paying clients waiting for you to shoot their jobs is financially irresponsible. I made the same mistake early in my career and it is a losing proposition. You will never be "caught up" in this business. New computers come out every 3-6 months, new cameras almost every year. It is tough to keep up and you shouldn't have to but in a way, you have to. As soon as REDs become more common, ad guys will be the first to not consider you if you don't have a RED. Not because they even know why you should use a RED, just because it's the latest toy.

If you care about money, I would advise you to check out careers in investment banking, real estate, healthcare, etc. What was your old business and why did you sell it? Producing video and film is a great job but I sure have not become wealthy from it and most of the people I know doing it have not either. I am turning 45 and I have been doing this full time since I was 30. It's a very tough ladder to climb and it is not getting any easier.

There are tens of thousands of young kids, film students and people "changing careers" that will have all of the gear that you will have or more. It also used to be that the cream rose to the top, if you had the skills, you could succeed. Not so much anymore, it's really much more about who you know, who you know that is a decision maker who will hire you or has enough influence to tell creative directors to hire you. Commericals are probably tougher to break into than television or features. In LA alone, there over 10,000 commercial directors and thousands of commercial production companies. The other trend in commericals is youth. If you are over 30, good luck. Most of the hottest new ad talent are kids and it makes sense, kids have fresher ideas that appeal to the popular demo and THEY ARE CHEAP!If you have two equally talented directors and one is 22 and lives in a small apartment or with mom and dad and you have the other director who is 35 and has three kids and a mortgage, assuming equal talent, who will work for less? A lot less? No contest. I am using a lot of generalizations here but you get the idea?

Unless you are lunching with agency creative directors or agency EPs, chances are that you will have a tough time breaking into commercials on a professional level. What is your training in? Do you have degree? Why do you want to work in film/video? Non of these really mean all that much, it is more like who you know mixed with a dash of luck and sprinkled with a little skill. If I were you, I would start my production company with building a reel and making contacts and forget buying gear. You can look in the Marketplace and Ebay and see how many people buy all of this gear, make a go of it for six months, then dump it all at a huge loss (nothing depreciates faster than video gear/computers) because they did not have a viable business plan.

I could be wrong, you could have a viable business plan but based upon what you have told us, you do not. I am sure that I will not discourage you from buying all of the gear and that's okay. If you want, I will still be glad to chime in with ways to blow your money "economically" but ask yourself if you think that buying a complete production package is a wise investment at this point in your career? I could tell you about all of the kids I have met with a $700.00 HV-20 and a cracked copy of FCP on an old iMac who are REALLY talented and have killer reels. If you are a newbie, these guys are your competition. Equipment, to a point, doesn't matter. It's the skills and talent that really matter and only to a point. Beyond your skills and talent, all that matters is who you know who can and will hire you. If you want to approach this as a viable business, you should begin thinking about with a business plan.

Best,

Dan

[wgzn]

Here thinking I sine have over 100k (left over from the sale of my former biz) in the bank, I am sure 15k-17k tops will provide me with killer equipment. Boy was I wrong!!!! I need to use a whole 100k... But I can't, I have to be frugal with my cash as I am afraid of starving (AGAIN) and not to mention I have 3 kids and a wife.... almost forgot I have the mistress condo to pay for aswell,,, just kinding about the mistress,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, she pays for her condo:cheesy:

it's pretty clear to me for several reasons that you are nowhere near ready to tackle this. keep your $100k to cover bills for the year while you rent gear to takle the jobs that come. buy gear only after you have income (or at least projected income) to justify it.

[Mark Anthony]

Mark -

Feel free to go to my web site www.newmediadevcorp.com (http://www.newmediadevcorp.com). My equipment list is on there. I started like you over a year ago in this business. I had to take a six month hiatus when my wife left her law firm job this past summer. We went from being in the top 5% of wage earning households to the bottom 5%!

I had to go back to work for the last six months to get health insurance and some mortgage money, but now I'm back full time with my business. And the wife is going back full time to her old job. YEEHA! I've given myself another 8 months to get things going before I start thinking it's time to put the Panny on eBay.

Have you already started serious talks with clients? Do you have a demo reel or are these people that know and trust you and are just giving you a chance?
I found I haven't had to give work away, but that trying to command big dollars right off is very difficult. You will need an enormous amount of time learing editing, compositing, lighting, audio, etc... I read manuals and online info at least 2 hours a day, watch my lighting and Hollywood Camera work DVDs endlessly, and pay attention to what the experienced pro's on this web site say. In the end, it's not the equipment that makes you great at this, it's how you use it. I was out practicing at 7 am this morning in my front yard with my HVX and Letus Extreme. I was going through the recording setup menus and realized I had the camera on SETUP for P2 card. I had just read (for at least the fourth time) in Barry Green's HVX book to leave it off, but somehow had missed it in setting up my camera countless times over the past year. That's just one of an endless stream of details that you have to get right to get the fantastic footage that you see in your mind. Same goes for shutter, iris, white balance, scene file settings, etc... Oh yeah, and where you point it. And never zoom until Spielberg calls.

Anyway, it sounds like you have the passion. Just be prepared for the 12-15 hour days. BTW, I've spent about $40K so far and that seems to be the tip of the iceberg. This business is like buying a boat, you always want one five feet longer....

Now about equipment. I just bought the Letus Extreme a few months ago and am using Nikon lenses. They look good, but rack focusing is nearly impossible to get right. They just aren't made for it. I have a Red Rock FF, and it's fine, but the lenses are only good in one focal direction (either in or out). Have you looked at what just one cine lens would cost you? Another thing, you'll be begging for a monitor to focus with. I just ordered a Carrion (search) because the Panasonic 8" was hitting close to $2500. Don't have a mattebox yet, hoping the RR will start shipping. Check out Hyson or Cinevate otherwise.

One place I have not listened to the real pros on this site about is the Tripod/Head issue. I have a Manfrotto 528XB that weighs a ton with a 501HDV head. It's great as long as you don't want to pan or tilt. I pretty much leave it locked down. I am saving to get a real setup next.

My light kit is a mixed bag of ARRI and Lowell, plus a med and large softbox. Lot's of threads on this subject. I use a Rode condenser and a shotgun for my audio work plus a couple of K-Tek boom poles. Don't forget to re-record your dialogue to get the best sound. I wouldn't bother with wireless unless you do weddings or really need it. The comment about the cables is dead on. Same thing applies to networking your computers.

Good luck with the enterprise. Look forward to seeing your posts!

Mark G
Richmond, Va


Great advice Mark!! BTW love the look and feel of your web site, what did you use creating your site? Killer 3D on the home page video, very nice!

[Mark Anthony]

Hi Mark:

A lot of risk you are taking. $6,500.00 per month mortgage probably means your nut to just pay your bills must be around $10,000.00 to $12,000.00 per month? Does your wife work or is she a stay at home mom? I will be the first one to tell you that this is the wrong business to be in if you care about making money. You should not spend any money unless you have paying projects lined up. How many projects do you have lined up? What are the budgets? How much profit will you make on them?

The most common mistake in film/video and starting a production company is buying a bunch of gear and waiting for the business to walk through the door. Major mistake and all backwards. I never buy gear anymore unless I have a job to pay for it. Buying gear without paying clients waiting for you to shoot their jobs is financially irresponsible. I made the same mistake early in my career and it is a losing proposition. You will never be "caught up" in this business. New computers come out every 3-6 months, new cameras almost every year. It is tough to keep up and you shouldn't have to but in a way, you have to. As soon as REDs become more common, ad guys will be the first to not consider you if you don't have a RED. Not because they even know why you should use a RED, just because it's the latest toy.

If you care about money, I would advise you to check out careers in investment banking, real estate, healthcare, etc. What was your old business and why did you sell it? Producing video and film is a great job but I sure have not become wealthy from it and most of the people I know doing it have not either. I am turning 45 and I have been doing this full time since I was 30. It's a very tough ladder to climb and it is not getting any easier.

There are tens of thousands of young kids, film students and people "changing careers" that will have all of the gear that you will have or more. It also used to be that the cream rose to the top, if you had the skills, you could succeed. Not so much anymore, it's really much more about who you know, who you know that is a decision maker who will hire you or has enough influence to tell creative directors to hire you. Commericals are probably tougher to break into than television or features. In LA alone, there over 10,000 commercial directors and thousands of commercial production companies. The other trend in commericals is youth. If you are over 30, good luck. Most of the hottest new ad talent are kids and it makes sense, kids have fresher ideas that appeal to the popular demo and THEY ARE CHEAP!If you have two equally talented directors and one is 22 and lives in a small apartment or with mom and dad and you have the other director who is 35 and has three kids and a mortgage, assuming equal talent, who will work for less? A lot less? No contest. I am using a lot of generalizations here but you get the idea?

Unless you are lunching with agency creative directors or agency EPs, chances are that you will have a tough time breaking into commercials on a professional level. What is your training in? Do you have degree? Why do you want to work in film/video? Non of these really mean all that much, it is more like who you know mixed with a dash of luck and sprinkled with a little skill. If I were you, I would start my production company with building a reel and making contacts and forget buying gear. You can look in the Marketplace and Ebay and see how many people buy all of this gear, make a go of it for six months, then dump it all at a huge loss (nothing depreciates faster than video gear/computers) because they did not have a viable business plan.

I could be wrong, you could have a viable business plan but based upon what you have told us, you do not. I am sure that I will not discourage you from buying all of the gear and that's okay. If you want, I will still be glad to chime in with ways to blow your money "economically" but ask yourself if you think that buying a complete production package is a wise investment at this point in your career? I could tell you about all of the kids I have met with a $700.00 HV-20 and a cracked copy of FCP on an old iMac who are REALLY talented and have killer reels. If you are a newbie, these guys are your competition. Equipment, to a point, doesn't matter. It's the skills and talent that really matter and only to a point. Beyond your skills and talent, all that matters is who you know who can and will hire you. If you want to approach this as a viable business, you should begin thinking about with a business plan.

Best,

Dan

Hi Dan, In answer to all your question, hope I cover it all....

Wife does not work, once we had kids she gave up legal work, (executive paralegal) she used to make around 75k a year. That was 9 years ago, the age of our oldest son, plus another two kids now.

I used to live in Los Angeles, was a stockbroker in Century City/West Los Angeles. Anyhow, I left the business because my side hobby/biz was doing very well (Investing in real estate). I actually did so well buying, fixing up and selling apartments, commercial & residential property my former StockMarket buddies and clients started investing with me; since real estate for the last 7 years before 2006 (before it all went to Sh*t on me), was doing quite well.

Real esate was cheap and killer potential in Phoenix AZ moved here from L.A. started investments here met alot of people and wealth. Established property management firm. Killed myself for seven years. Made money bought to much stuff, toys, sand rail, luxury RV, Quads, and an expensive home. 3 years Later the Real Estate Market crashes, everything goes to crap on me and the only thing paying my bills just enough to live was that little O'l property management firm I had. Since it dealt with a different avenue of real estate it still did ok, long and short sold that for money and here is my dumb a$$.

Met casting director a while back did some real estate deals for this person. One day asked me if I wanted to be on a TV show did a couple here and there, maybe he felt sorry for me since he knew I was not making what I used to. Was on a show early last year called Entourage "HBO" just as a one time few lines type thing. From there he put me on a couple of shows did some acting. I would audition for some and easily get the part. Was told you are good, actually really good, I had one problem. When on the set I was more intrested in cameras, equipment and how it's done. Before I knew it I was intrested in this line of work. This was about a year ago. Just sold the biz 6 months ago and paid of alot of my toys and fancy cars off.

I thought real estate would last forever and never left myself a great deal of $$$ in the bank for safety. NO, not me I would buy more crap since I can afford it. You know what hit the fan and now I am looking for a new career. I am very much a go getter, and can succeed at anything. This is my biggest challenge yet.

See, when Wall st. was doing good during the DOT com. era it was a no brainer throw a dart at the board and make money. What did I do with that money. Invested in real estate, then real estate and my little 10 units 15 unit apartments and some houses I had for rent all were worth alot more 2 years later, ALOT MORE. Well got my surf board and rode the R.E. wave........ Economy giveith and Economy takeith away.... Both suck now and cost alot more than this biz. singe avg. home for investment still over priced and will fall for the next two years. So what do I do till then??????? Don't know nothing else... Have Law degree, never used it... went looking for J.O.B. with it no experience and now looking for work cuz R.E. went to sh*t. They can see why I am applying a mile away. Oh, I can get clerk type work. 35-40k a year. My wife can make more than me being a paralegal,, funny huh, and I went to Law School, and under grad in securities law..... On paper I look ok to you,, but no one wants to hire without CURRENT EXPERIENCE real estate wave drop out!!! I am a selfemployed investor that is what a made a good living at now that is all gone...... for a few years more...

So what can I say... biz plan YES, have one. I used to do so much advertising that I know so many people in the industry. I was there client, now the tables have turned where I am seeking biz from them instead of them kiss my ass. Most are being cool and giving me some work, now it is time to expand on that. Thinking of selling home and down grading for a bit..

Have been renting and working with a camera guy I know here. Hire him to do shoots and stuff but he is busy and have to wait on him to do shots. Slowing me down I need camera and have to learn. Took classes learned on Sony F900 (can't afford and for some reason I Like the look of the HVX better, don't know why but I DO) Well there it is in a nut shell. I have no other option. I have no other RESUME EXPERIENCE........


Should I just buy me HVX, FCP for edit, matt box and get camera proficent first with this HVX. Rented one to try out cool little thing. Love what it can do and have done research and seen clips as to its capabilities..... incredible little thing!!

SO HELP ME!!! or should I just have wife push me down the stairs and collect insurance money.

Excuse grammer I am in a rush.. Wife making me go to church today!! Isn't the game supposed be on excuse is not working, this time..


Many thanks and brutal truth does not offend me, so if I am off my f'ing rocker, tell me.

[puredrifting]

Hi Dan, In answer to all your question, hope I cover it all....

Wife does not work, once we had kids she gave up legal work, (executive paralegal) she used to make around 75k a year. That was 9 years ago, the age of our oldest son, plus another two kids now.

I used to live in Los Angeles, was a stockbroker in Century City/West Los Angeles. Anyhow, I left the business because my side hobby/biz was doing very well (Investing in real estate). I actually did so well buying, fixing up and selling apartments, commercial & residential property my former StockMarket buddies and clients started investing with me; since real estate for the last 7 years before 2006 (before it all went to Sh*t on me), was doing quite well.

Real esate was cheap and killer potential in Phoenix AZ moved here from L.A. started investments here met alot of people and wealth. Established property management firm. Killed myself for seven years. Made money bought to much stuff, toys, sand rail, luxury RV, Quads, and an expensive home. 3 years Later the Real Estate Market crashes, everything goes to crap on me and the only thing paying my bills just enough to live was that little O'l property management firm I had. Since it dealt with a different avenue of real estate it still did ok, long and short sold that for money and here is my dumb a$$.

Met casting director a while back did some real estate deals for this person. One day asked me if I wanted to be on a TV show did a couple here and there, maybe he felt sorry for me since he knew I was not making what I used to. Was on a show early last year called Entourage "HBO" just as a one time few lines type thing. From there he put me on a couple of shows did some acting. I would audition for some and easily get the part. Was told you are good, actually really good, I had one problem. When on the set I was more intrested in cameras, equipment and how it's done. Before I knew it I was intrested in this line of work. This was about a year ago. Just sold the biz 6 months ago and paid of alot of my toys and fancy cars off.

I thought real estate would last forever and never left myself a great deal of $$$ in the bank for safety. NO, not me I would buy more crap since I can afford it. You know what hit the fan and now I am looking for a new career. I am very much a go getter, and can succeed at anything. This is my biggest challenge yet.

See, when Wall st. was doing good during the DOT com. era it was a no brainer throw a dart at the board and make money. What did I do with that money. Invested in real estate, then real estate and my little 10 units 15 unit apartments and some houses I had for rent all were worth alot more 2 years later, ALOT MORE. Well got my surf board and rode the R.E. wave........ Economy giveith and Economy takeith away.... Both suck now and cost alot more than this biz. singe avg. home for investment still over priced and will fall for the next two years. So what do I do till then??????? Don't know nothing else... Have Law degree, never used it... went looking for J.O.B. with it no experience and now looking for work cuz R.E. went to sh*t. They can see why I am applying a mile away. Oh, I can get clerk type work. 35-40k a year. My wife can make more than me being a paralegal,, funny huh, and I went to Law School, and under grad in securities law..... On paper I look ok to you,, but no one wants to hire without CURRENT EXPERIENCE real estate wave drop out!!! I am a selfemployed investor that is what a made a good living at now that is all gone...... for a few years more...

So what can I say... biz plan YES, have one. I used to do so much advertising that I know so many people in the industry. I was there client, now the tables have turned where I am seeking biz from them instead of them kiss my ass. Most are being cool and giving me some work, now it is time to expand on that. Thinking of selling home and down grading for a bit..

Have been renting and working with a camera guy I know here. Hire him to do shoots and stuff but he is busy and have to wait on him to do shots. Slowing me down I need camera and have to learn. Took classes learned on Sony F900 (can't afford and for some reason I Like the look of the HVX better, don't know why but I DO) Well there it is in a nut shell. I have no other option. I have no other RESUME EXPERIENCE........


Should I just buy me HVX, FCP for edit, matt box and get camera proficent first with this HVX. Rented one to try out cool little thing. Love what it can do and have done research and seen clips as to its capabilities..... incredible little thing!!

SO HELP ME!!! or should I just have wife push me down the stairs and collect insurance money.

Excuse grammer I am in a rush.. Wife making me go to church today!! Isn't the game supposed be on excuse is not working, this time..


Many thanks and brutal truth does not offend me, so if I am off my f'ing rocker, tell me.

Wow Mark:

What you should be doing is selling your life story to a producer, that's quite a ride you have had.

Well, this is turning more into a career counseling thread than an equipment thread. You are definitely in a unique situation. What worries me is that while you have connections and possibly some clients, it doesn't sound as if you have signed production contracts and deposits. They may come through with enough work, they may not.

Honestly, if I were in your boat and was serious about going into production, I would downgrade my lifestyle to reduce debts. I am sure that your wife and kids will not be thrilled to sell the house, buy a smaller, less expensive house and to sell off all of the toys (I am sure probably at a big loss? Are they all paid for?) but you sound as if you have no training in film/video production? What are your plans to learn how to...
Oh yeah, you have not said what you want to be? A director? Writer? Producer? DP? Editor? All of the above?

I am glad to see that you have a lot of experience in making real money in real industries. I still stand by my assertion of if you want to make real money, you are heading into the wrong business. Don't you have some connections you could use to get back into real estate investment? I know that they say the real estate market will bottom out late this year or sometime in 2009. There are a LOT of foreclosures. Sounds as if someone with your knowledge and experience could clean up in buying and turning when the market gets healthy again? Just a suggestion.

As far as gear, it sounds as if your debt to cash ratio is pretty bad. Your burn rate means that you need to be highly profitable within about 3-6 months or you will go broke. If your mind is made up that you want to somehow get into commercial production, I would highly reduce your debt and see about getting your wife back to work. If you only have $80,000.00 to live on until you become established and profitable, you might do it, chances are you will not. Then what? If you are considering entry level, why not take a job in production so you can learn what you want to do? You still haven't really said what your training and experience in production is. You sound as if you may have the marketing/self promotion thing down, which is good, but unless you only want to be a producer, you have to learn your craft(s). That takes time, years and even decades.

Based upon everything you have written, I would evaluate your position carefully before whipping out the credit card.

Good luck,

Dan

[Mark Anthony]

Wow Mark:

What you should be doing is selling your life story to a producer, that's quite a ride you have had.


Oh yeah, you have not said what you want to be? A director? Writer? Producer? DP? Editor? All of the above?

Don't you have some connections you could use to get back into real estate investment?

If you are considering entry level, why not take a job in production so you can learn what you want to do? You still haven't really said what your training and experience in production is. You sound as if you may have the marketing/self promotion thing down, which is good, but unless you only want to be a producer, you have to learn your craft(s). That takes time, years and even decades.


Dan



Dan, nobody wants my life as a script, make a ton of cash, spend and loose it all.... it will be called "the path of a self made drop out" or how about LOOSER!!! I still beat myself up. Seven figure net worth gone.. with the real estate crash>>>

And yes, producer, director, DP you name it all of the above. Mainly I am a businessman,,, I sell that is where nobody can beat me.. However ,if I wanna be good I gotta know my product and what it takes to make it happen; Hence, I would like to do my own camera work sometimes just to save cash and gain a FULL round a bout knowledge.. As far as training I took training on Video/ production and editing on AVID & FCP (i Like FCP better) also worked with F900 sony,, for two months during this class. So you know what type of training I have had done, look at Alpha Pacific intstituted online in Phoenix, AZ. Basic video production... oh btw,, none of my clients are buying real estate for alteast two years more.... so that is out of the question, the well is dried up there!!!

So a year ago I said why not try something else if it is a hit, its a hit. Nothing else to do for the next two years and go broke so go down swinging I guess. Cuz if I wait out real estate, I still go broke..

I honestly think I am better off giving it a shot as a producer with directing, camera & edit knowledge than sitting around waiting for the market to turn..

[wgzn]

sounds to me that youd be best off handling producer/sales efforts for an under-utilized shooter/editor who already has gear and KNOWS how to USE it - WELL.

there is a LOT more to production and post production than can be adequately mastered in two months of classes...

[Mark Anthony]

sounds to me that youd be best off handling producer/sales efforts for an under-utilized shooter/editor who already has gear and KNOWS how to USE it - WELL.

there is a LOT more to production and post production than can be adequately mastered in two months of classes...


Hi wgzn,

Actually, it was 2 months production and editing, plus 2 1/2 working on the cameras and doing 2 little shorts. So total almost five month program.

But if there is one thing I learned for sure; it's that you are right, there is a WHOLATTA more to pro & post production. That is one thing that I have learned is that this will definitely take years to prefect as a trade..

Producer sales is what I would be best at, yes. However, I want the hands on knowledge of the pain and heart'ache that comes with the territory. So when selling I can speak intelligently as to what functions are required in order to accomplish such task. I just really want to learn the hands on as I feel. I can assist in the budget and save money rather than sitting around doing nothing saying hi I'm the sales producer,,, I would rather work it like a guy owns and works his own resturant, as the cook. Chef Ramsey or someting....

Honestly, I have told/approched under-utilized shoot/editor. I pretty much let them know, I come with cash to invest in making this(my) or HIS video production company more biz, all I ask is to work hands on and I invest money or equipment in helping grow together. Here in Arizona sour response, maybe it's here, maybe it's they all ready have enough biz and equip. don't need my help or partnership. Don't know, just looking to invest in this business and see what happens. Better than Real Estate, I refuse to sit around for the next two years and hope!

I am a 24 hour Suit wearing closer, big deal... who gives a hoot. So what, I am a businessman and CLEARLY AN investor, (I sell and invest that is what I do, that is all I really know what to do),. Maybe I just scare them away some how or something, don't know?

[wgzn]

just sent you a PM.