New Canon "dual flash" HD camcorders

[Barry_Green]

Check this out -- looks like Canon's introducing some new camcorders at CES.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/05/canon-introducing-dual-flash-vixia-hf10-f510-and-f511-camcor/

Not only would this be Canon's first foray into solid-state recording, but somehow they're doing internal flash memory as well as external. I'd presume AVC-HD.

[mcgeedigital]

Interesting...almost makes me want to go to CES vs NAB!

[Barry_Green]

We don't know anything about 'em at all yet (google's failing me) but I'm just happy they've gone solid state! If they have a dual-solid-state HV20-caliber cam, at half the size, that could be verrrrrry interesting to a lot of people.

[Michael Friedman]

I would love a solid state HV20 although the appeal of the HV20 is that I can mix its 24f with my A1 footage. It is hard to imagine that they would go with HDV for anything new. Isn't it all going AVCHD?

[Barry_Green]

That's the manufacturers' plan, yes. But the reality is that HDV will stick around as long as people keep buying it. Sony's going to introduce a couple of new higher-end HDV camcorders at NAB, so it's not dead yet...

[Jack_Felis]

If they are going to release a flash HV20-quality camera that will kill alot of the HDMI flash recorder sales from Cineform and Convergent Designs. Still, can't complain much, flash is definitely the way to go.

[Digigenic]

If they are going to release a flash HV20-quality camera that will kill alot of the HDMI flash recorder sales from Cineform and Convergent Designs. Still, can't complain much, flash is definitely the way to go.
But you're assuming people are choosing the Cineform or Convergent Designs option only because it allows to record to flash, without taking into consideration the unique recording format it offers.

The Cineform option is still worth considering simply because you'd be recording to a format that is 4:2:2 and handles well within the editing application of choice, as oppose to the inferior color space of AVCHD and the beast that it is said to be in post production.

Don't get me wrong, I like what AVCHD has to offer, but if my choices for a production were to cost effectively way the differences in quality of video output from a lower bitrate AVCHD camorder or a similarly spec'd HDV camcorder paired with a Cineform HDMI recorder and the costs were within close range, I might just pick the later of the two.

Besides, I've always viewed the products provided by Cineform and Convergent Designs as geared more towards the professional market anyway, not the primary target of these 3 camcorders, so I'm very reluctant to think this bit of news will impact their business strategy in a significant way.

[SomewhereinLA]

I agree with Digigenic, those product are geared toward the prosumer market...

[Aje]

Look here

http://gizmodo.com/341768/canons-hd-vixia-hf10-and-hf100-need-no-tape

There will also be 12X optical zoom and ext. manual mic.
Have been waiting for this.
Aje

[bewillia]

If this had come out eight months ago, people would be going nuts.

[Jason Ramsey]

This link:
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/07/canons-vixia-high-def-camcorder-get-official/

Is saying the HF100 version will not have on-board flash and will retail for 899.


The HF10 will have onboard flash as well and will retail for 1099.

Both are CMOS and both have 24p cinema mode and 30p Progressive mode.

And, this link:
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/08/video-canons-vixia-hf10-16gb-dual-flash-camcorder-hands-on/
Mentions AVCHD recording.

later,
Jason

[Zim]

Do these new camera's like the VIXIA HF10 work with FCP? FCE? or even iMovie?

[SomewhereinLA]

Anybody tried or use the VIXIA HF10? I briefly saw it today, the size is tiny... I am really tempted to get it but I 'll like to know if it's in the HV20 caliber... since I'll like to mount it to a 35mm adaptor...

cheers.

[Johnny Cola]

Just got in my shipment from B&H; brand new HF100 and HVX200a. I put one of my DVX batts in the HVX and made sure it worked, then put it back in the box for a shoot later next month (very clean image btw, +12 gain and still cleaner then my DVX at 0 gain, seriously!). But... I've been playing with the HF100 all freaking day! It's tiny and has an amazing image, especially when u consider what it is. Actually it has a damn good picture for any camcorder under $10k. I'm kickin my self in the ass for not getting the HV20 when it came out. I've have been producing grainy SD images for FAR TOO LONG!!!
My poor DVX may never see the light of day again. hehe

I did a quick shoot mainly to see if I could edit it in Vegas 8, no probs with 30P (actually PF30).
So I shot it at 7Mbps and it looks fairly decent and pretty damn usable for that bit rate. It goes all the way to 17Mbps, so I know it's gonna kick ass up there. I need to write a short so I can really see what this thing can do!

Here's a little goofy clip of the 7Mpbs footy.
http://vimeo.com/1053824

[Johnny Cola]

BTW the rolling shutter issue with CMOS cams is a major considaration. U will not be shooting the next Jason Bourne movie with this or the Sony EX1 for that matter.
I really really really wanted the EX1 but I was waiting for some of the "quality control" issues they were having to get worked out. While I was waiting the HVX200a got released... YAY!!!! Honestly I still want the EX1, it has an amazing image (as long as it's not moving too much) and the 1/2" chips and that lens are really nice for achiveing shallow DOF from what I've seen. 35mm adapters are pain in the butt and the EX1 stock wont get as shallow but I also think people are ODing on shallow DOF and it's gotten way overused and abused. EX1 is a good compromise IMHO. Wish it didnt have "jellovision."

Sorry for rambling... it's late and I had a freaking awesome day!!!

Nite nite kids

[Green Hornet]

BTW the rolling shutter issue with CMOS cams is a major considaration. U will not be shooting the next Jason Bourne movie with this or the Sony EX1 for that matter.
I really really really wanted the EX1 but I was waiting for some of the "quality control" issues they were having to get worked out. While I was waiting the HVX200a got released... YAY!!!! Honestly I still want the EX1, it has an amazing image (as long as it's not moving too much) and the 1/2" chips and that lens are really nice for achiveing shallow DOF from what I've seen. 35mm adapters are pain in the butt and the EX1 stock wont get as shallow but I also think people are ODing on shallow DOF and it's gotten way overused and abused. EX1 is a good compromise IMHO. Wish it didnt have "jellovision."

Sorry for rambling... it's late and I had a freaking awesome day!!!

Nite nite kids



I do not notice so much the rolling shutter issue, more a lack of fidelity with color....but trying to bump it up.

[dvpixl]

anymore info on the hf10 from anyone? experiences?

[mico]

Had Canon HF10 for a week now and the picture with adequate light is fantastic. Low light is terrible as it adds gain.I expected this because of such a small sensor. You can lock exposure, find where gain is added then dial down to find the point where gain is not added. Then add light for good clean image. There are many posts here and elsewhere on how to do this just like the HV20/30.

Cine mode is the best curve but you cannot lock shutter speed, it really tries to stay at 1/48th but if theres not enough light it goes down to 1/24th, so I shoot aperture priority (TV) locking it at 1/48th then go into custom settings and decrease contrast brightness and sharpness which gets you close to the cine mode curve. But the highlight rolloff isn't as good as it is in cine mode.

Instant auto focus is amazingly fast without the slow drift of regular AF.

OIS is good.

Sennhieser MKE 400 sounds great for such a small add on mic.

Raynox .3X semi fisheye looks great but if bending , which isn't that drastic, bothers you try a .7X.

Battery that comes with cam lasts about an hour. You Need to get the larger capacity BP-819 battery.

At high quality 1920x1080 17MBs setting you get 2 hours 5min capacity in in-camera 16gb solid state storage with slot for another SDHC class 4 or higher card if you desire.

Shooting 24p high quality 17MBs at 1/48 with decreased custom settings I mentioned I find it to be the best AVCHD image I have seen so far.

Its light, small, gets a great picture and with enough light it transforms into a great B roll / place anywhere cam.

Whip panned it and yes rolling shutter skew is there but I have yet to shoot a shot where I'm bothered by it.

Have seen no image artifacting in short time I've had it and I love to run and gun it.

Suggest you get some hand held device to mount cam to because of its small size handholding it you will make people seasick. Found B&H selling the anton bauer Egripz for $70 and it works very nice with this cam.

Cam is sharp and you need to dial it down for more natural filmic image.

Mac's recognize cam automatically.

Colors aren't as deep as I would like.

Accessory shoe is not regular size , stupid of Canon. But I got an adpter from here that makes it to regular size but shoe will not be "hot".
http://shop.dm-accessories.com/

You'll never get it all in such a small consumer cam for $825 but other than some small issues ,some expected some not, Canon did a great job with this.

[dvpixl]

mico, thanks for the thorough personal experience.

[Johnny Cola]

Been little over a week now since I got my HF100 and HVX200a in. I still havnt shot anything with the HVX, the HF100 is just toooooo freaking fun. True HD 1920x1080, the size of a coke can, amazing macro... I could go on but watch this, did it yesterday. It was shot PF30, I should have shot 60i but I didnt plan on slowing it down. Still pretty dang cool.
http://vimeo.com/1098676

[Sceneeast]

I just bought the Canon Vixia HF10 great video, my new Mac Pro reconized the camera, but won't download. I have the lsatest version FCP but even when I tranfer the files from my PC thru my home network it does not reconizes the files. Any idea what I am doing wrong? Thanks for any suggestions.

Bob

[Zander]

Here's a little goofy clip of the 7Mpbs footy.
http://vimeo.com/1053824

Best camera review ever. :thumbsup:

[Barry_Green]

Best camera test footage ever. :thumbsup:

[Johnny Cola]

Best camera review ever. :thumbsup:

Best camera test footage ever. :thumbsup:

LOL ohhhh the cynicism is palpable... but I'm still honored.

[Barry_Green]

Seriously, that was entertaining as all get-out. "Oh, what else -- cats. You guys like cats. Come here, cat. Come on. Okay, screw the cat. What else -- flowers. Okay, here's some flowers." Awesome.

[ecking]

It was beautiful, like watching all test footage at once. The first thing I filmed back when I first got my dvx was my cat. Ah it takes me back!

[veebis]

I just bought the Canon Vixia HF10 great video, my new Mac Pro reconized the camera, but won't download. I have the lsatest version FCP but even when I tranfer the files from my PC thru my home network it does not reconizes the files. Any idea what I am doing wrong? Thanks for any suggestions.

Bob

FCP requires that the file structure remain completely intact... In other words, just plug your camera in via USB, then go to "Log and Transfer" in FCP... It should show up and allow xsfer via that interface (you can adjust parameters, i.e., codec used).

You can copy movie files to your hard drive first, but only if you copy The Entire File Structure, top to bottom, unaltered...
-Vb