still where i started

[sinai]

after reading all the posts here the helpfull ones and ( no way to avoid this: the useless ones ) and in other forums . After watching all the footage posted from the ex1. After comparing the hvx (which i truly learned to love on different productions shot a lot cooperate, commercial , feature and doc work with it ) to the ex1, side to side at two different dealers ( funny one was pro ex the other pro hvx ) I m still where i started 2 month ago when the ex came out .
Lets put it like this :
I love the terrific picture the hvx is creating out of the box that warm tender look we all love .
I still live in an sd dominated world here i would have to down a lot material from the ex to make it compatible ( ok no big deal one could say )
I m afraid of the rolling shutter yes I m shooting all different stuff lets say musicvideo or concert no red carpet shooting tho but hey i want to be able to shoot with all kinds of artifi light without problems even flashes and i m gonna rig my cam also to all kind of moving objects ..
ccd vs cmos i tend clearly to ccd s BUT lets not get into that again please...

and of course the hvx is much better for handheld shooting (which rarely happens for me but happens) then the ex1 i m talking about shooting with no rigging system of course.
Solid state recording what a comfotrable thing but on my last docu i shot 60 h of raw material shooting with little breaks in between how would i have managed this with the ex1 quiet a challenge .

On the other hand:

i waited my whole life for a little 1/2" camera for that price !
The lens: u never want to fiddle around wity the hvx leica after you had your hands on the ex fujinon lens what a progress on this little camera s
and of course the 16:9 lcd which finally makes it possible to see what you re doing what a relief ..
not to forget the hd sdi out
and i can change from 50 to 60 hz gd for me and ppl who produce in europe and aboard. there s no euro or us version like for the panny cams.

damn PPL i m twisted ....

i will continue this text and my thoughts my girl is nagging hey after all it s x mas

so merry x mas and happy hanukkah all of you filmer and wannabe filmer.

[Essami]

Tough choice. But in all the pro's and con's you described yourself the EX1 has workarounds for the cons (SD, warm look) and the pro's are physical things (lens, lcd, resolution). Reading your post it looks to me like EX1 got more points. And to quote yourself "i waited my whole life for a little 1/2" camera for that price !" :)

Sami

PS. Oh, and you're posting on the EX1 side of the Forum... A little tell-tale sign of what you really want as well ;)

[sinai]

... :)
thanks sami mostly true but theres no "workaround " for the cmos / rolling shutter fact....hmmm , well i guess it will go on ...

[Stevet]

... :)
thanks sami mostly true but theres no "workaround " for the cmos / rolling shutter fact....hmmm , well i guess it will go on ...

True, but don't rope the EX1 is showing the same magnitude of rolling shutter problems seen in cheap cameras.

I'm not saying they are not visible. Yes, they are!
As shown here, camera flashs do seem to be a problem.
Oddly, event show strobe lighting (moving heads) was not an issue for myself.
I have lights I use on small concert events and ran a quick strobe test and was surprised that there were no obvious partial exposures.

[sinai]

cheers stevet
did you post the strobe test u did by any chance?

btw.. does anyone know if lawriejaffa tested already?

off eating cookies here ..

[TheMusician]

Sinai, I understand your delimna as I am having many of the same questions. But I have a solution that I think is going to work for me. Though I am not a fan of Long GOP, I am also not a fan of DVCPRO HD's reduced resolution for 1080 work, and I like the space-saving feature of GOP as far as getting the most video onto your SxS card. If I really need to do green screen, I can always use the SDI which will be every bit as good as the HVX. So for 95% of the regular work I will be doing, the EX1 will be perfect. And for that rare 5% of red carpet or high camera flash work, I'll simply rent for a day. This solution will work well for me as this is how things usually work no matter what camera you buy, because no camera is perfect for 100% of your work anyway, right?

[sinai]

.... well said thx.musician.

still stuck tho( guess i wait for april, to see what s going on at NAb

[lawriejaffa]

Hiya mate, sorry i haven't had the chance to borrow it off my colleage yet (he's been using it for some o' the cheesy xmas /new year corporate shoots you get!)

It's good money tho sometimes haha

Anyway, ill be playing with the EX for a day or 2 to try and familiarise myself a little before shooting a little drama scene (using the brevis) and some grading and fx etc

Not a very scientific test, still a fortnight to go before i get to that really, anyone experience with the ex1 wanting to give me tips on some ex queries of mine, would be appreciated - before i shoot the test etc. ie. settings etc for some shots ill be doing etc.

[StMad]

Sinai,

A couple of thoughts...firstly, the EX1 appears to have a huge advantage over the HVX in sensitivity - 1 1/2 stops by the specs and likely more given how noisy the HVX is in the blacks. There aren't many shooters on these boards that have big lighting budgets, so I'd put that as a major plus for most of us. And 2ndly, are any of these toaster / lunchbox cams good for handheld shooting? I have a HVX and rarely get usable footage without a support (the monopod I just bought is blowing my mind - I'll can't see myself shooting pure handheld again).

I'll likely have an Ex1 in the next couple of weeks...I shoot concerts so the rolling shutter is a concern for me too. I've been very happy with my HVX when the lighting has been good. If the EX1 doesn't cut in these scenarios I'll keep my HVX and just use "multiple cam" footage as a selling point for my services. When strobe lighting strikes, I'll cut to my HVX footage.

[Sceneeast]

(the monopod I just bought is blowing my mind - I'll can't see myself shooting pure handheld again).

Which one are you using for EX1?

Regards Bob

[Stevet]

Sinai,

When strobe lighting strikes, I'll cut to my HVX footage.


You won't have to. The flash duration on the concert lights will probably be long enough not to cause partial exposures. I own these lights and have tried it myself. But, as it's been mention over and over, if you really want to be confident, do NOT rely on anything you hear, try it YOURSELF. I did, and I have no issues. Due to the short flash duration, camera flashes will cause partial exposure.

I have not confirmed this myself, my camera is at Sony for the vignette issue, but will try it next week. I'm sure that it will have partial exposure with camera flashes, but it will be interesting if there are settings that may reduce the effect.

[Noel Evans]

(the monopod I just bought is blowing my mind - I'll can't see myself shooting pure handheld again).



Agree for smaller format cameras what shooting a live multi cam event theres no better way to go. Sorry I was recently converted also.

[StMad]

I have not confirmed this myself, my camera is at Sony for the vignette issue, but will try it next week. I'm sure that it will have partial exposure with camera flashes, but it will be interesting if there are settings that may reduce the effect.

Yeah, much testing ahead...I look forward to hearing and sharing results.

Bob, using the 562B, though I don't have the EX1 yet. I'll post some monopod footage in the HVX hardware section in the next day or so.

[sinai]

Sinai,

A couple of thoughts...firstly, the EX1 appears to have a huge advantage over the HVX in sensitivity - 1 1/2 stops by the specs and likely more given how noisy the HVX is in the blacks. There aren't many shooters on these boards that have big lighting budgets, so I'd put that as a major plus for most of us. And 2ndly, are any of these toaster / lunchbox cams good for handheld shooting? I have a HVX and rarely get usable footage without a support (the monopod I just bought is blowing my mind - I'll can't see myself shooting pure handheld again).

I'll likely have an Ex1 in the next couple of weeks...I shoot concerts so the rolling shutter is a concern for me too. I've been very happy with my HVX when the lighting has been good. If the EX1 doesn't cut in these scenarios I'll keep my HVX and just use "multiple cam" footage as a selling point for my services. When strobe lighting strikes, I'll cut to my HVX footage.


thanks stmad
so far i can t think of any system which served my needs doing handhold . most of the stuff out there developed for the "toasters" just ain t good for me somehow . so on jobs using small cameras i always chose doing it with no support when it came to do handheld shots . The steadicam system so far is the only shining star out there , but we all know how any toaster sized cam looks on a steadicam but then again hey why not . then remains only the price ;)
so anyone out there know a usefull system for the ex1 or of course hvx i m more than happy to give it a go . what monopod are u guys talking about anyways ??
besides: i said it before the ex is the first lil cam where u would definetly nEED some support doing longer handholds its nightmarish balanced and the switchable handle is quiet useless .
ah and stmad lucky you you gonna have both beasts to choose from . but hey i ve still gotta make a decision over here ;)

[sinai]

fresh n hot :
http://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Test/Kurzvergleich--Panasonic-HVX200-vs-Sony-PMW-EX-1.html

[DeeZiD]

fresh n hot :
http://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Test/Kurzvergleich--Panasonic-HVX200-vs-Sony-PMW-EX-1.html


looks good :)

[Sumfun]

fresh n hot :
http://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Test/Kurzvergleich--Panasonic-HVX200-vs-Sony-PMW-EX-1.html

Nice test. Looks like the EX1 is definitely more sensitive, but the color on the HVX looks "richer". Maybe this is something the can be adjusted on EX1, though.

I was a little surprised to see a so much stairstepping on the 400% blowup on the HVX, especially since the closeups of the arched windows (zoomed in) don't show much difference. Maybe someone who speaks German can explain?

[DeeZiD]

You can see this stairstepping on hard contrast edges when objects are in motion (zoom, moving etc...) and video is zoomed 400% in.

It seems to be Pixelshift-related.


Sorry for my bad English :engel017:

[Stevet]

White balance was different between cameras. The HVX was warmer, the EX1 was cooler. They should of matched them for the test.
Also, the contrast difference is just that, a contrast adjustment. Also, the gamma curves are different (of course). I doubt a lot went into either camera when trying to maximize the exposure latitude. Short of just resolution, it's hard to gather much from these images. The large stair steps on the 400% star blownup HVX are strange, but it is blown up 400%!
Having looked at the images alone, I'd say both cameras look great. With some tweaking to the color/contrast/ gamma curves/ white balance, I'd bet you could get them to cut together fine.

Also, why the 1080i comparision. The EX1 1080P is jaw dropping.

[StMad]

what monopod are u guys talking about anyways ??


The Bogen 562B (me anyway)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/487699-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto_562B_562B_Four_Sectioned_Fluid_Vid eo.html

I put some thoughts together here...

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?p=1144877#post1144877

[sinai]

i just gt back in here after a while wow was it getting hot in here on some threads . lol .
HAVE A VERY FILMIC ;) 2008 EVERYONE

thanks st mad ( monopod) gd link too.

[Sumfun]

You can see this stairstepping on hard contrast edges when objects are in motion (zoom, moving etc...) and video is zoomed 400% in.

It seems to be Pixelshift-related.


Sorry for my bad English :engel017:

Thanks for the translation. If the stairstepping only happens during motion, that would explain why we don't see it in the other picture.