Test: XDCam EX filming a narrative (Life on the Set).

[LuckyStudio 13]

A) Intro

Conventional wisdom tells, not to buy a first batch of any product. Unfortunately, sometimes we have to go against our own conventional wisdom due to certain circumstances. After being booked for a job scheduled for late Dec 2007, I have to find a new camera to replace my HVX200.

Being a Panasonic die hard fan (dvx100b & hvx200 ex-owner), I demoed the hpx500, at $25k complete with lens and battery. It still uses the same resolution CCD (960x540) as the Hvx. 2/3" lens means no cheap 35mm adapter and you CANT get the 35mm shallow DOF, weight of the hpx500 means bigger tripod, expensive anton bauer battery system, the lcd is still lousy and low res as the hvx's.

So the hpx500 at 4x - 5x the cost of the hvx200 with only 25% - 30% improvement over the hvx200 is not worth it for me.Then the next logical step is of course the RED ONE. It costs min $ 26k to get a full working cam with Nikon SLR 35mm lenses. The RED ONE is an amazing cam, it changes the industry forever like the dvx100 few years ago. Unfortunately, the waiting list is long, delays after delays, you need an external recorder (you probably want TC), you probably want TC slate, heavier tripod ....etc. And, the cheaper Mini Red is not too long away.

I have never been a fan nor owned Sony camera before, IMHO, they just never done it right. The Sony Z1u is 100% interlaced only, The Sony V1u , true progressive cam but 1/4" sensor ? Come on ! even Canon got it right with the XH-A1. Also, I think brand loyalty is just foolish especially in the technology industry where things are improving and moving so quickly.Then Sony announced the XDCAM EX. It bears the cine alta badge, made in the same factory as the F900. The specs guaranteed to make any indie filmmaker excited. Full HD res 1/2" sensor, variable frame rate, 2 free 8 gig Card (over 50 mins recording with XDCAM HQ codec), true manual lens, High res lcd ...etc. And it only cost $6495 and I dont need expensive pro battery and I can use my existing setup (tripod, rails, LEX 35mm adapter ....etc.)

With every cam, there will be compromises, there is no perfect cam. Purely based on specs alone, below are some of the compromises of the XDCAM EX.

a) 4:2:0 color space
b) Long GOP codec
c) CMOS Rolling Shutter problems

Looking at the work of Stephen Dempsey and Macgregor with the XH-A1, I know that 4:2:0 is not a break it or make it issue. Their work is their testament that 4:2:0 can take stand heavy CC without breaking. Despite being badly looked down and abused, I have yet seen the poor HDV codec failed them as filmmaker and content creator.

The XDCAM EX HQ 35mbps VBR codec is more robust than the HDV codec, plus another big advantage is that it gives a longer recording time on the memory card (25 min on 8 gig card with XDCAM HQ vs 8 min with DVCPRO HD on 8 gig p2 card). Unless I am shooting, "Sky Captain: the world of tomorrow 2", 4:2:0 and long GOP are not legitimate concerns to me. Furthermore, shooting intensive green screen work is done in the studio anyways. Should this need arise, the XDCAM EX can still output uncompressed 4:2:2 from its SDI port out to cheap sata RAID drives.

I used to believe the Panasonic Mojo look, until I realized almost all narrative work has to go through certain color grading anyway and you should shoot as flat as possible during production. Sure, if you shoot wedding/event and are genetically lazy, then the straight out of the box Panasonic look is an advantage. The rolling shutter problem, is unfortunately the nature of the beast. If you film a lot out of a helicopter, doing event videography where they are a lot of flash photography and strobe lights, then a CCD camera is your obvious best choice.

Is the XDCAM EX perfect ? NO. I wish it has 4:4:4 colorspace, I frame codec, built in 35mm interface that allows me to use slr lenses without bulky adapter, I want it to have a shoulder mount factor like the JVC's, I wish it uses cheap CF cards .....etc. But hey, even the RED ONE has issues and I am totally at the mercy of the "cosmic ray" that befallen upon my poor XDCAM EX as warned on the Sony User Manual.

Being an early adopter, I wish I don't have to send back the cam to Sony to get the lens and firmware adjusted to fix the vignetting (light fall out) flaw. I wish the rebate company could get it right and not only issue the free 8 gig card to purchase made after Dec 1st. I wish we don't need another future firmware upgrade in order to use generic Express Card Memory.

But common sense tells me that Sony would not be foolish enough to abandon their cine alta camera and customer. I just got a call today (12/19) from Sony requesting my address so they can overnight a prepaid overnight FEDEX label to me and get my camera fixed. Turn around time is max 5 days. They are also sending out memo to the rebate company in MN to disregard the Dec 1st rebate rule and I *think* they should honor their words of having the cam be compaitable with cheap generic Express Card Memory in the future.

I think we have all beaten the "specification" horse to death. Its time to take the cam out to the real world and put it through its paces. For my intended use, I think the XDCAM EX is the BEST camera out there right now for my *purpose*. I think I made a well informed purchase and hope that the $6449 XDCAM EX will serve and fit my and my client's need.

You know Sony has finally as struck a nerve with the XDCAM EX, as the camera caught the attention and awaken all the Heavy Hitters in this forum and was judged with heavy critiques against it (test it on a mountain bike, get 3-4 strobes lights and film it, run as fast as you can and PAN it, purposely pull out the SxS card while its writing its file to see if the file survive, dusts inside that hole on the camera body ....etc. Some of which really tickled the funny bone. I didint remember anyone asking the hvx200 to be taken into a cave to test out its low light noise and sensitivity. The last time a nerve was hit, it was the Canon XH-A1, which we all can see today, produces some very film like images even with its *pariah* HDV codec.

I guess this is what I am going to find out in the next few weeks. If the XDCAM EX falls short on the set, I guess I will be renting cameras and hoping RED is taking deposit for the Mini Red, this coming April in Vegas.

Note: I am not trying to justify the XDCAM EX nor to glorified the camera. Nor am I affiliated with Sony at all. Sony could discontinued or be selling 2 billion of the camera tomorrow and I will not have any monetarily nor any type of compensation in any form. For now, let's see how the XDCAM EX performs on a typical indie set, isn't that why we all spend our money on ?

[LuckyStudio 13]

BTS

http://faculty.bus.olemiss.edu/jwee/AtticDay1.jpg
This is when a micro or macro 35mm slr lens will truly help.

http://faculty.bus.olemiss.edu/jwee/on%20the%20dolly.jpg
The indie dolly takes the Rig sturdy and Smooth. BTW, IndieDolly prices are going up 10% after Jan 1st 2008. If you want to locked in with the cheaper 2007 price, you better call them and put your order in soon. Also, If you are not using the "two leg" Manfrotto tripod leg design, You can order a special receptacle that would accept single leg tripod design. We have the Cartoni 100mm tripod leg and the new receptacles work with our tripod perfectly.

[LuckyStudio 13]

Workflow and Conclusion

Day 1 of shooting went smooth and sound. One thing that we noticed is that the Sony Battery did not last all that long. I did not timed the actual running time, but it certainly was way shorter than expected. The battery also seems to drain rather in very rapidly while not in use. Probably another firmware fix is in the horizon.

Also due to the Light Fall out/Vignetting problem, we decided to shoot 99% of the movie with the Letus Extreme 35mm adapter, which present its own problem and hassles. Slow creep zoom means breaking out the dolly, white balancing means physically moving the rig (we used mainly the Zeiss primes today).


SxS Workflow

During lunch break, we transfer the footage from the SxS memory card to 2x Lacie 500 gig external HD. If you still using tape, this is when you will appreciate solid state technology like the P2 and SxS. We also decided to keep 2 copies of the master (in its native XDCAM EX full HD format for future use). Depending on the popularity and success of the Sony XDCAM EX camera, it might take long time before all the other mainstream NLE (like Adobe Premiere ..etc) to offer native XDCAM EX editing.

Day 5

It has been 5 days since principle photography begins. The XDCAM EX has never failed to perform. There have been NO bad or any corrupted files at all. I have no huge hollywood HMI or anything above 1k on my Arri light set, thanks to the light sensitivity of the cam, I still managed to step to f4 on my f2.8 Nikon zooms and get usable pleasing interior shots. Some people worry about the pre-recorder cache of the camera. In narrative film making, the pre-recorded cache is not even relevant as it is already built into the workflow of narrative film making.

One feature that helps on the XdCam Ex that is often overlooked is the rear REC tally lamp. Why is it useful ? Because when you monitor the LCD for performance, you want to get rid of all the readings on the LCD. Therefore the Red rear tally light, would tell you if you are in "REC". The "delete last clip" feature is also extremely handy to get rid of the last bad take.

Shooting Solid State

On average we shoot 2 - 3 reels(SxS card) per 8 hour day. When the price settled down or when Sony introduces the firmware upgrade to generic SxS cards, 3 x 16 gig or 3 x 16 gig cards are definitely PLENTY for a typical narrative* and live/event shooting/filming. That way, you can have a SxS card rotation scheme so a blank SxS is always ready to be loaded.

[philip bloom]

Well put.

It is after all how you use the camera. What you do with it that is important. The potential from the EX1 is enormous. It is a camera with flaws, but as you said, everything has flaws. After all if the perfect camera was brought out where do camera manufacturers go from there? There will always be something better coming along but for my money and in all my years doing this, no camera has impressed me more than this little beast!

[macgregor]

I think there is a huge step in terms of resolution and grain between the HPX500 and the HVX200. Also you get an extra stop in sensibility.
Images may look the same in SD in terms of color, but you can truly see the difference.

RED doesn´t need an external recorder.

[Stevet]

Yes, the HPX500 is real nice.

[taormina]

I think we've agreed the HPX500 blows the doors off the EX - DVX meant that he could not justify the price.

[Stevet]

As it should for 3X $$

[Stevet]

Dxmetal...
Thank you for your straight level-headed feelings on the EX1.

Somehow I've been roped into over hyping the EX1.
Although, I probably was the most vocal person regarding vignetting.
Also, brought up AF is really not all that worthy (possible issue with mine?).
I've also noted that barrel distion at full wide seems a tad high.

I plan on posting some small videos using the EX1 with moving head lights set to strobe. To my surpise, it looked good - I really don't see any partial exposures.
This is good news since I will be doing a lot of concert event work with these cameras. Yes, I do know and have seen bad results from camera flash.
I'm OK with this, especially knowing the flash from the lighting heads are not an issue.

[Christopher Barry]

Do different strobes, flashes, etc have different attack and release time (programmable or by design)? If so, you could possibly pick your lighting tools to help compensate, especially in a controlled environment, such as on set.

[philip bloom]

I think we've agreed the HPX500 blows the doors off the EX - DVX meant that he could not justify the price.

Blows the doors off is a big strong. It is better because it has 2/3rd inch chips and removable lenses. Better colourspace of course (by the way which is better 4:2:2 or 4:2:0?! Kidding Barry Green!)

But you can't compare like for like. Despite it having 2/3 inch chips I would choose my F350 over the HPX500 any day and following on from that statement I have recently used my EX1 rather than my F350 for four separate broadcast shorts for convenience, image quality, ability to mount film adaptors and see when they are in focus without a monitor and for the fact is doesn't intimidate people like a big camera does!

But getting back to my initial statement...I don't think it is 3 times better because with lens it is 3 times the price. The EX1 is targeting the Z1, HVX crowd and it raises the bar incredibly meaning that the opposition needs to up their game immensely to compete. I think it is highly unlikely that Panasonic will put in 1/2" chips into their HVX replacement. A shame as this is one of THE biggest plusses of the EX1

But at the end of the day, it's not what you shoot with...it's how you shoot it!

[Stevet]

Agreed.

Phil, I have the feeling Panasonic will up the game with 1/2" chips.
The more I see come off the EX1, I'm really convinced that this camera has really opened up the sub $7K USD market

Also, with Cineform offering future portable 4:2:2 drives, it's going to get real interesting. I can't wait to get my hands on one of these drives.

[taormina]

The HPX500 crosses the line into pro cameras.....the "sumer" part is no longer present in the 500. If you need that capability (and other things such as 4 xlr ports, removable lenses, etc) You probably aren't looking at the EX anyways, which is no slight against the EX.

Anybody serious about using something like the F350 won't switch over because it too contains pro features needed by......pros. Sometimes the least of which is image sensors / res.

[ESTEBEVERDE]

Philip is a Pro Shooter all the way yet he uses the EX at times!?!!?

I guess I would like to hear those who have access to both weigh in as well.

But, the bottom line for me is that I have the means to buy the EX 1 and it might suit my needs most of the time.


Will Panasonic fire back with a camera that meets "my" needs better?

Who knows, but unless it's here by the date the shoot starts it doesn't matter one iota.

[Stevet]

ESTEBEVERDE,
AS you know, you really have to try it yourself and decide if you like it or not.
Try a rental house, or see if someone has one close to you.

Having owned a handful of these cameras over the years, this is the best I've seen in the price and size.

[ESTEBEVERDE]

ESTEBEVERDE,
AS you know, you really have to try it yourself and decide if you like it or not.
Try a rental house, or see if someone has one close to you.

Having owned a handful of these cameras over the years, this is the best I've seen in the price and size.


Actually, I am seriously considering getting one after the first of the year and shooting with it for a few months to see how I like it.

Maybe get 2 16 Gig Cards and an Extra 30 and 60 Battery.


The rolling shutter worries me a bit. but I will see how bad it is in the real world.

I like the clarity of the image and will most likely marry the EX 1 with the letus extreme. I will also check out the brevis flip as well.

[philip bloom]

I get my Brevis Flip tomorrow and will test it out with the EX1 around Christmas.

I have just finished editing another series of picture postcard shots with the extreme and EX1. I will post it on my blog soon. It was mainly to test out my two new shift tilit Hartblei lenses. Very nice they are too!

[ESTEBEVERDE]

Nice!

[taormina]

Who cares what philip does. My point remains: I own an HVX and it is a prosumer cam. So is the EX. And I shoot professionally as well. If that turns your crank - great! If you can do pro work on a consumer cam - awesome!!!!

If you need a truly pro camera, neither will cut it. And it has very little to do with res and sensor size - more like form factor, industry standard batteries, shoulder mount, etc. ad nauseam.

[Stevet]

I'm sorry, but it's well known the camera is not what makes it pro. ;)

Lesser cams have made the big screen.

[reem12]

agreed stevet.

[ESTEBEVERDE]

Who cares what philip does. My point remains: I own an HVX and it is a prosumer cam. So is the EX. And I shoot professionally as well. If that turns your crank - great! If you can do pro work on a consumer cam - awesome!!!!

If you need a truly pro camera, neither will cut it. And it has very little to do with res and sensor size - more like form factor, industry standard batteries, shoulder mount, etc. ad nauseam.

I care what Philip does because I love his work and find it both beautiful and engaging.

Know what else.

Stephen Dempsey is an F'n artistic master with his XH A1!

If you are not capable of producing quality work that is both esthetically pleasing and moving on even a fundamental level with your HVX or whatever too bad to sad.

Get over it and Keep at it.

Case in point. Look at the Sta Volta short posted on the forum here.

Great sick twisted ride and beautifully shot.


Come on man... come on....


What's really bothering you?????


Is it like the guys who drive Ferrari thing? :laugh:

[ESTEBEVERDE]

I'm sorry, but it's well known the camera is not what makes it pro. ;)

Lesser cams have made the big screen.


BIG TIME! :thumbsup:

[philip bloom]

Cheers E,

Smaller "prosumer" cameras have been making award winning documentaries for years. The word is misleading and I know Sony would be very upset you calling an EX1 prosumer. It's made in the same factory as the HDCAM cameras, it has the same professional warranty and backup that all the shoulder mounted cameras have but more importantly...it shoots pictures that in my mind are indistinguishable from my F350. Yes, it is not shoulder mount, doesn't have big batteries and it will not replace my larger cameras but it has become an essential tool for me now and I have used it for broadcast work a lot recently. In fact if you live in Europe you can see it all next week on Sky News and in the UK also on Channel five at 7pm, the channel who commissioned me to make the shorts. I am very proud of these five religion shorts and I challenge anyone at home watching them to A: care and B: notice anything different!

When shooting docs smaller cameras often work better due to their size being less intimidating. The families I interviewed for the above series would not have been so relaxed had I had a massive rig with 3 lights, big camera, big matter box etc...When shooting abroad the EX1 really comes into it's own. So much easier to fly with and yet the compromise is minimal, lens not as long, batteries smaller (who cares) and not shoulder mounted. But I can travel incredibly light, have a light miller ds 20 tripod and still get the same beautiful pictures I get with my big uns!

With regards to who cares what I do... It's not about who cares what I do. I am not telling people to do something, far from it! I am here giving my advice from my own experience and at the same time learning and getting help from others. After all isn't that the whole point of these forums taormina?

Anyway...Merry Christmas!

[Stevet]

Phil,
thanks for taking the time and sharing your work with us. It's been of great help for many. I'm looking forward to your Brevis tests.

[taormina]

OK - I'm going to say it.

The EX crowd pisses me off because they are all so defensive, as displayed in all the above posts. My original post was a direct response to someone talking about the HPX500.

Philip chimed in and stated the HPX wasn't all that much better than the 500, and ALL I SAID WAS THAT THE BUYERS OF 500s WERE MOST LIKELY PRO SHOOTERS BECAUSE OF THE FORM FACTOR.

Now this has become a discussion about whether pros can use prosumer cameras, and a bunch of chest pounders giving their suport to the argument that "lesser cams have made the big screen" which I totally agree with but had nothing to do with why I posted.

So what if Scorsese chooses to shoot the Departed 2 on an HV20. THe point is pro shooters look for pro features in a pro cam that neither the HVX or the EX have - that's why Panny makes the 500 and Sony makes the 350 - is that so hard to grasp?

[philip bloom]

I think we've agreed the HPX500 blows the doors off the EX - DVX meant that he could not justify the price.

This was your original post. I was giving my opinion as i did not agree. I apologise to you if you think my opinion does not matter.

Am I defensive, no. I was standing up for the camera, yes. I own 2 full size "PRO" cameras. Also a JVC HD201, Z1, A1e, HV20 and EX1. I used to own an HVX and thought it too was superb. I also own three Super 8mm cameras. They have better colourspace than the HPX500 by the way. As an owner of an EX1 and F350 I think my opinion is pretty valid.

People come onto these forums for discussion and advice. I was discussing. Again apologies for doing that.

Is the EX1 the best thing since sliced bread? No. Is it best camera, like, ever? No. Is it my favourite small forum camera. Yes. Do I truly believe it can hold it's own against the 500. Yes, but the form factor is it's biggest downfall.

You way with words are quite confrontational and not really helpful to anyone.

Can we drop this now please Adam?

[taormina]

dropped. Sorry for the trouble. Have nothing against you or the EX - was trying to make a point that other's weren't feeling and I'll take the blame for that.

[Stevet]

Adam, please take note to this threads topic. It had NOTHING to do with the HPX500. It was YOU that trolled in on this topic with:

I think we've agreed the HPX500 blows the doors off the EX.

Thanks for having probably closed dxmetal's EX1 test thread which he spent a lot of time writing about. Ironically, I even mentioned the HPX was a great camera.
But somehow, we're all the EX crowd pissing you off! LOL

AGAIN, I could care less WHO makes the camera. If it satisfys your needs, it's probably good enough. No one is trying to sell you on the EX1.

[philip bloom]

Cool thanks. If I could I would own every single camera out there. Every one has cool features.

I have been using the spx800 Recently. Nice camera but doesn't even have the over and undercrank of the HPX500 which is much cheaper. It's things like that which confuse punters and me! The picture is better but misses many features that it's cheaper siblings have.

[philip bloom]

How have you been getting on DX?

[LuckyStudio 13]

Phil,
27 hours on the EX and it has never failed me yet (touch wood). I have owned and used a lot of prosumer cams in the past (dvx100b, hvx200, Xh-A1, XL2, XL-H1, Z1U (not mine), and the XdCam EX (baby Alta to me :p) is definitely the ONE.

p/s: This is my first Sony and I used to think Sony doesnt really want the prosumer narrative film maker s' business.

[Stevet]

Thanks dxmetal for sharing your thoughts, frames and footage!
At a risk of sounding over done, the more I use the EX1, I'm just blown away with the high rez low noise image. It's definately in another class than my previous cameras, for sure.

Now, If I can get my hands on one of those Cineform portable recorders!