Test: XDcam EX with 35mm Lenses (Zeiss Prime vs. Nikon f2.8 Zoom) on Letus Extreme

[LuckyStudio 13]

Introduction:

In tje span of 2-3 weeks I am fortunate enough to have some of the best 35mm SLR lenses at my disposal. I would like to thank Gary (username: GMOE) for providing me (for FREE !) and trusting me with 3 Zeiss prime lenses. We are interested to see how the Zeiss prime would hold up against the Nikon f2.8 zoom lenses.

I dont have access to expensive resolution charts , color charts .....etc, nor am I intending to purchase them. So if you are looking for scientific numbers, you might have to look elsewhere. I will try to be as comprehensive as possible in my tests.

Part I: Initial Impression.

On the left from (top - bottom):

Zeiss Distagon ZF: 25mm/f2.8
Zeiss: Planar ZF: 50mm f1.4
Zeiss Planar ZF: 85mm/f1.4

On the right (top - bottom):

Nikon ED AF-S 17-35mm f2.8
Nikon ED AF-S 28-70mm f2.8
Nikon ED Af 80-200mm f2.8

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/14472/1198003030.jpg

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/14472/1198002950.jpg

Obviously, the Nikon zoom lenses are huge both in terms of weights and length compared to the Zeiss primes. This means that

a) You need a bigger tripod that can balance a higher capacity weight.

b) You will have a front heavy rig that would want to nose dive to the ground. Meaning: you need to find a way to balance your rig on the tripod. You might also need to use a lens support rail for thee Nikon 80-200mm. Being robustly built, the Letus extreme itself is hefty.

c) You will need longer rails with the long Nikon zoom Lenses.

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/14472/1198003004.jpg

I am fortunate that the rig is able to balance everything without any sort of aid. Here is the longest Nikon Zoom lens (80-200mm) sitting perfectly balanced on my Sachtler tripod. The rail system is the Cavision Letus Extreme edition. The length of the rails is 27" that should allow me to attach a mattebox.

Even with the addition of a mattebox and couple of filters, I still have room to adjust the Sachtler plate backwards. Plus, the higher capacity Sony battery would weight more and help distribute the overall weight to the rear.

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/14472/1198002976.jpg

With the longer Zeiss 85mm prime, a 19" or 18" rail should be plenty enough to support the whole rig (including a mattebox).

[LuckyStudio 13]

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/14472/1198002923.jpg

Part II: Built & Substance

The Zeiss lenses are built and made in Japan and not Germany. Regardless of the country of origin, the build quality is top notch and surpass that of Nikon ED series or the Canon L series. The lenses are heavy and made of aluminium and there are hardly any plastic piece at all. The aperture ring are tight and crisp and have a superb feel to it. More importantly, the focus ring is very smooth and feels absolutely fluid by itself and also when paired with RedRock Gear Rings and Follow Focus.

The 3 important advantages of the Zeiss lenses are:

a) The amount of travel of the focus ring. To get from minimum focus distance to maximum (infinity), the focus ring travels 3/4" of the lens diameter. On the Redrock FF, it takes a total of 2 1/4 turn to go from min focus distance to max infinity focus.

b) The true manual zoom ring with hardstops (on min & max).

c) You have more F stops to choose as you can go between the F stops.

The Nikons Zoom lenses gained their fame by being used as much as 80% on the Bourne Ultimatum. The three lenses (17-35mm, 28-70mm & 80-200mm) are all made in Japan. They are the last generation of Nikon Zoom fixed f2.8 lenses that have manual aperture ring. There are newer generation of zooms that replaced the above trio but they all use "camera controlled" aperture. One could spend $1000 to get Briger mount that allows manual control of the aperture on these new lenses. However, I am not sure if the briger mount only come in PL style which is more expensive than the standard Nikon mounts. There are no evidence if Nikon are discontinuing the above trio or if they decide to continue producing them.

The feel of the Nikon lenses are very solid but not as hefty as the Zeiss. The aperture and focus rings do not feel as good as Zeiss lenses. When compared side to side, the Nikon lenses almost feel like a toy, where the Zeiss have that industrial toughness and feel to them. Of the three Nikon Lenses, only the 80-200mm is a true manual focus ring with 2 hardstops. The 17-35mm and 28-70mm have the annoying focus ring that goes on forever.

The focus throw distance is also very short on all of the Nikon lenses, where the Zeiss goes 3/4 or about 2 1/4 round on the FF, the Nikon lenses only travel about 1/3 of its lens diameter to go from min focus to max (infinity) focus. Unlike the Zeiss, you cannot go between F stops on the Nikons.

http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/14472/1198039606.jpg

If you are trying to save money and skimping on a FF, you might have more success with using the Zeiss vs the Nikons. It is because, you can easily mark focus on the Zeiss focus ring itself. They are very well marked and spaced more apart. The Nikons have a small window that is not meant to be written on, pair this with the lenses' short focus throw, it is almost impossible to focus without having a FF.

I don't really know what Arri changed on the Nikon that was used on the Bourne Ultimatum. Probably the usual suspects, lengthen the focus travel, gears on the focus ring, smooth aperture adjustments ....etc. The blades on the Nikons lenses are more rounded than the Zeiss lenses, hopefully this will result in better rounded bokeh.

If you are into digital photography, you might want to know that the Zeiss lenses are all 100% manual controlled. You cannot do auto focus with the Zeiss lenses at all. The three Nikons can be controlled Manually as well as set to AutoFocus. The 17-35mm and 28-70mm Nikons also feature silent wave motor system.

Using a director Viewfinder, the XDCAM EX zoom has to be set to 82 in order to get that 35mm frame. I also do not have the wobbling Nikon mount problem that others have found on their Letus Extreme. The mount has been rock solid with every turn of the RedRock FF.

I also have snapped some pictures from both the Zeiss and Nikon lenses on the Nikon D200 SLR camera. Unfortunately, I am running out of hosting space here on www.dvxuser.com (http://www.dvxuser.com), I will post them up once I found some server space. Sorry, but I do not have a website.

[LuckyStudio 13]

My director checking out the XDCAM EX (baby cine alta) :p

http://faculty.bus.olemiss.edu/jwee/on%20stairs.jpg

http://faculty.bus.olemiss.edu/jwee/Playing%20Doll%20House.jpg

Zeiss 85mm f1.4 lens (Thanks to Kyle Prohaska for the hosting space).
http://www.kyleprohaska.com/pic1.jpg

http://www.kyleprohaska.com/pic2.jpg

http://www.kyleprohaska.com/pic3.jpg

Below are some resized highly compressed jpg grabs.
http://www.dvxuser.ramjetfilms.com/Dxmetal/toysoldiers.jpg

http://www.dvxuser.ramjetfilms.com/Dxmetal/stairs.jpg

http://www.dvxuser.ramjetfilms.com/Dxmetal/BoyCC.jpg

http://www.dvxuser.ramjetfilms.com/Dxmetal/bedroomCC.jpg

Im would like to give a very BIG THANK YOU to Jason Ramsey for his generosity. I won't be able to post any footage without his help on Server space. Proven that P2 Guy can Live in harmony with SxS guy in this beloved forum of ours.

Footage Added: (h264 extremely high compression) with very mild 3 way CC. No magic Bullet.

http://www.dvxuser.ramjetfilms.com/Dxmetal/AA_Demo2.mov (shot with the Nikon 28mm - 70mm Zoom).

http://www.dvxuser.ramjetfilms.com/Dxmetal/xdcamExLetusEXDemo.mov
(shot mostly with the Zeiss Prime). lenses).

[LuckyStudio 13]

Reserved for Conclusion

[Matty_g]

looking forward to some footage!

[mcgeedigital]

tag for footage

[RichardVClark]

That is a good looking rig. I can't wait to see the tests. Good luck.

Richard

[kinohistoria]

Dxmetal, what specific tripod model are you using? I'm considering the Sachtler FSB-6.

I'm really looking forward to the test results.

[LuckyStudio 13]

It is the Sachtler DV-8. I have used quite a bit of different tripods throughout the year, and the Sachtler is an industry std for a reason. Right now the head is set to balanced at position 3 on my rig.

Dxmetal, what specific tripod model are you using? I'm considering the Sachtler FSB-6.

I'm really looking forward to the test results.

[kinohistoria]

Thanks!

[cckid]

Looking forward to see some footage....

cckid

[Kwan]

Can't wait to see some footage...

[LuckyStudio 13]

Guys, I am sorry for the lack of footage but we have been shooting every day 9:00 am - 7:00pm and then I have to digest the footage to a different codec for my editor (dont have a mac).

I have posted 3 quick higly compressed jpegs. We did not beat the shallow DOF to death by using f0.2. The 3 stills were from the Zeiss 85mm f1.4.

More grabs and footage (if I can find host) to come, I promise.

[LuckyStudio 13]

Highly compressed h264 footage and some jpg pics added. More footage to come as I have the time and once PP is done.

[USLatin]

subscribing

[Jackster]

Early this morning Sony just announced the US street price for its new PDW700 XDCAM HD422 camera. Confirmed by a Sony rep at Paramount Pictures the camera will sell in the US for $37,000.00 (without lens).
Ouch!!!!!!!!!
This comes as a big disappointment, especially for independent camera operators - myself included.
One can buy a Panasonic AJHDX2000 for $27,000 which is switchable from 50mbs to 100mbs bitrate 1920p 422 quality.
Sony can kiss my A$$ :violent5:

[Kholi]

Rofl

[LuckyStudio 13]

Jackster,

Can you kindly remind me how is that post of yours, pertained or even related to my thread please ? I really like to see the connection between the PDW700 and/or the AJHDX2000 with my Nikon , Zeiss, Letus Extreme and my EX.


Early this morning Sony just announced the US street price for its new PDW700 XDCAM HD422 camera. Confirmed by a Sony rep at Paramount Pictures the camera will sell in the US for $37,000.00 (without lens).
Ouch!!!!!!!!!
This comes as a big disappointment, especially for independent camera operators - myself included.
One can buy a Panasonic AJHDX2000 for $27,000 which is switchable from 50mbs to 100mbs bitrate 1920p 422 quality.
Sony can kiss my A$$ :violent5:

[USLatin]

^ hehehe... yea.. it looks like drunk mid-night posting... very funny nonetheless :)

Dxmetal, thanks for your comparison of the use of the Nikon zooms vs. the Zeiss primes... I would like to know more about them if you can.

Could you give me exact travel for the 28-70 and 80-200 on the focus ring and also on the RedRock FF? Thanks... I know you already said the 80-200 is 1/3 of a turn on the ring but I had caled Nikon support and they told me that it was supposed to be juuust barely less than 1/2.

Also, I don't know if you mind, but if you can could you give me an idea of the average cost of the three piece Zeiss set and how much the 105 or 135mm can cost when found? Also, how hard is it to find the Zeiss primes? Anything you can say about cost and availability would also be helpful to me.

So far I am researching the use of the 24-70 + 80-200 2.8f Nikon zooms with the new Redrock FF and flipped Brevis, but I have a long time before I get the means which I plan to put to good use to make the right decisions... something that by looking at all of your equipment you've obviously done very well :thumbsup: