HPX500 is pretty bitchin' first pro35 footage?

[obin]

Hey guys I had the pleasure of using a HPX last week for 2 TV commercials with the pro35 adapter. I have to say that this setup is pretty darn solid. This is a REALLY nice camera for the money and the adapter is EDGE to EDGE sharp unlike the lesser units on the market. remarkable quality of image from the entire setup. I used Zeiss superspeeds on this shoot.

FIrst 2 images have a basic color time on them, the rest are raw from the camera. This camera is so much more "professional" then the hvx it's not even funny.

http://dv3productions.com/HPX-PRO35.jpg

THank you Barry! :)

Oh and let me just say that you can shoot this unit with 1/2 the lights you need for your hvx + adapter...really...no shit....AMAZING.



+++++++++++++++++++++

UPDATE!

OK HERE IS THE SPOT:
www.dv3productions.com/HTC_DOC_MASTER_CUT.mov

DIRECTORS: The Olson Brothers
DP: Obin Olson
GAFFER: Amariah Olson
EDITOR: Obin Olson
COLOR TIME: Obin Olson
FX: Amariah Olson

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

2nd Spot:

http://www.dv3productions.com/ASTRONAUT.mov

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

3rd Spot:
http://www.dv3productions.com/FIRST_TIME_2.mov

[obin]

no input?

[GaryinCalifornia]

They look nice and I like the first two that have been corrected...

[24fps4ever]

I have seen hvx footage that looks 10x better, IMHO

[taormina]

I think it looks fantastic. I personally don't see how HVX footage can be 10x better.....

[24fps4ever]

well its a matter of taste is it not?

[mcgeedigital]

That looks awesome Obin, nice job!

[mcgeedigital]

I have seen hvx footage that looks 10x better, IMHO

Really?

Please post it then.

[earmarkcreative]

Any chance of posting some video samples, after all, this IS a video-camera forum not a still-camera forum. Anyone can make a still look great using Photoshop. Personally, I'd rather see video samples...

(Don't mean to sound snotty...)

Thanks in advance

cheers

[taormina]

Yeah but 10x? There's room for hyperbole bat that's ridiculous.

[Noel Evans]

Well its all subjective anyway isnt it? Of course its possible to have footage from the HVX look 10x better in SOMEONES opinion. Not to mention theres so much HVX stuff out there.

Anyway thanks for post obin, good to get an idea of what results your looking at.

[Barry_Green]

Looks awesome, Obin! Any chance of getting some full-res footage? I recognize these are broadcast commercials and you may not have the rights to post footage, but if you can we'd love to see it!

[Brad Neal]

Those look really nice. Can't wait to see some footage.

-Brad

[Bachman]

FWTW I like the first 2 shots, the last 3 look too orange. Has this been shot with the "spark" scene setting because its the same orange/red cast we are getting?

And did you colour correct the first two?

[PhantomVideo]

Nice one man the lighting is nice

[obin]

I too would love to see this 10x better footage...don't forget this is a "commercial" not a music video. Oh and this is comedy not action or drama so the "look" is not going to be dramatic in nature nor is the lighting setup.

BTW 10x better from a tech point of view is not possible, the pro35 is far far better then any redrock/letus/brevis/whatever that is out for the hvx due to 2 reasons:

1 Your not dealing with a cheap internal lens setup on the camera
2 The pro35 units optics are far far higher resolution then any of the low end adapters.

THis is NOT saying they are shit and the pro35 is great but at this point I would not use any of them on a paying gig. They don't meet the quality standards I set for my images.

[obin]

really basic color correct on the first 2 last ones are camera raw

[GaryinCalifornia]

10x better is right…

I think the two corrected grabs look 10 x better than the three uncorrected ones…

Just my humble opinion…

[TimurCivan]

ok you may be able to make a shot look good with an HVX200.... Btu the HPX500 is a FAR more usefull tool. With a PRo35, and lens, its still faster than a stock HVX. So your grip package doesnt have to be as sizeable for the same effect. IT saves money on that end, though the HPX500/pro35 rental probably off sets that....

That being said nice work Obin.

[Matty_g]

sounds like you're the one being offensive 24fps4ever (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/member.php?u=22508)



Oh and let me just say that you can shoot this unit with 1/2 the lights you need for your hvx + adapter...really...no shi*....AMAZING.

That is so awesome. Do you know how much lightloss the adapter causes? I've heard around 2 stops for the pro35.
Any pics of the set up?

[TimurCivan]

I think everyone needs to chill out. serious.

[mcgeedigital]

offensive? yeah right, its not my problem that some people cannot accept comments that I guess dont flatter or tell you how good something is, this is the real world pal, I was just giving my opinion just like everyone here does but I guess it wasnt what the user was looking for and look now.....

Constructive comments are always welcome here, I assure you, but saying you've seen HVX footage that looks 10 times better, without 1.) SHOWING us that footage, and/or 2.) showing us YOUR fantastic HVX footage that looks 10 times better just makes your comments seem a little immature at best.

[taormina]

If there's anyone here that's going to be offensive, it's me. At least that's what I'm told....;-)

[J.R. Hudson]

Obin

That first grab is great; a little hot on his head, but I love the Zones you created with lighting this shot

I also love the framing. Very nice.

The other grabs (Sans the wide of homeboy) are too flat for my tastes.

[cardmaverick]

I used the HPX500 recently, and yes, its better than an HVX200. Do you have any full res grabs? It's hard to make a really good comparison when things are shrunk down for the web.

My only critiques would be the "clippy" looking highlight. It is what it is now, but in After effects, with careful masking and some change color effects, I think you can soften out the transition, and then add a very light peachy color to the guys forehead in the first shot, and maybe some very light silver in the shot with that fridge thing in the background.

I can't remember what I ISO rated that camera at, but it was higher than the HVX200. I think I pegged it at 125 based off of RGB highlight clipping at 90 IRE... something like that, but that will all depend on how you set up the cameras DSP.

[aalleexx]

I think everyone is misunderstanding this dude, I guess he has seen hvx footage that looks more filmic to him, which is understandable,
beauty is in the eye of you know who :)


Constructive comments are always welcome here, I assure you, but saying you've seen HVX footage that looks 10 times better, without 1.) SHOWING us that footage, and/or 2.) showing us YOUR fantastic HVX footage that looks 10 times better just makes your comments seem a little immature at best.

[mcgeedigital]

I think everyone is misunderstanding this dude, I guess he has seen hvx footage that looks more filmic to him, which is understandable,
beauty is in the eye of you know who :)

Point taken.

[TimurCivan]

Filmic Doesnt mean better..... :violent5:

[aalleexx]

Filmic Doesnt mean better..... :violent5:

of course not tim, hey tim by the way how have you been doing with the 35mm rental, do you have a lot of rentals in dec? I have been thinking of having my extreme 35 for rental here in the area, can you give me some feedback on the whole experience from the renters perspective

[TimurCivan]

yea its out all the time. My adapters have paid for them selves by alot already.

[obin]

I did not mean to "stir" the pot around here. maybe next time I will keep me posts to me self.....

[Matty_g]

please don't obin.

[obin]

THing is this. Even if you think someone is a total no talent looser it's just not cool to say it harshly. You can always tell someone how they can improve the craft without saying: man your shit stinks I know someone with 10x better footage from a 20x cheaper camera!

So, unless you would like to come out of the closet and show me the 10x "better" footage so we can argue till dawn I will disregard your post as an assault that needs no more thought on my behalf. :violent5::Drogar-Shock(DBG):

I will try and post the finished Commercial when I am done with the edit and it's on the air.

[TimurCivan]

obin, we need people like you around to show people aspirring to make good work how its done. no worries man. your input is greatly valued.

[Barry_Green]

Keep in mind Obin's been nominated for something like 4 emmy awards and produces national broadcast spots. Dude knows what he's doing.

[Sprocketboy]

Panasonic is really ramping up the quality of their cameras. Obin, your screen shots from the HPX500 are fantastic. It nice to know how much visual latitude one can get from a camera that is a step higher than the HVX200. Its a remarkable difference. I still would not disqualify the HVX-look. Its dense and bold like 16mm Ektachrome stock. HPX500 brings things closer to 35mm film.

I agree with Timur assessment of the screen grabs. The first two have hot spots and that's judging by the lighting config and ratio. The other shots are flat, but can be corrected in post. Composition is excellent.

[Sprocketboy]

I agree with Timur assessment of the screen grabs. The first two have hot spots and that's judging by the lighting config and ratio. The other shots are flat, but can be corrected in post. Composition is excellent.

I meant JR Hudson's assessment. :huh:

[aalleexx]

why are we still arguing this? has anyone heard of the gritty look? I know a lot of people that would take the gritty look over the super clean 1080 look, some people love the look of the dvx100 some like the look of the varicam at 1080, no you cannot compare them but its a matter of choice, just because something looks good to you does not mean that it looks the same to the next person just my .02

[William_Robinette]

the look of the varicam at 1080

Just a FYI, Varicam tops out at 720p.

And these are fantastic grabs. I would love to see the last three timed as well as the first two take the cake look-wise.

And with the 500 and the 200 I think they are directly comparable considering their innards and image processing are closer then possibly any other 1/3" and 2/3" cams

[cheezweezl]

these shots are so much sharper than anything i have seen shot on hvx with any adapter. not to say that this is a better look but for me, i would rather start out like this and soften in post if needed than be stuck with a softer image all the time. i shot on the hdx900 recently which also has 2/3" chips and i was amazed at the difference in required light. it was like being back on a dvx with no adapter. nowadays i shoot mostly with the hvx/redrock and sometimes the amount of light we need to use is just plain rediculous.

obin, don't let the naysayers get you down. the shots look like money. there are a few people lurking around here that just lke to flame everything. you know what they say about opinions....

[aalleexx]

what?? the varicam does not shoot 1080? OMG all this time.......


Just a FYI, Varicam tops out at 720p.

And these are fantastic grabs. I would love to see the last three timed as well as the first two take the cake look-wise.

And with the 500 and the 200 I think they are directly comparable considering their innards and image processing are closer then possibly any other 1/3" and 2/3" cams

[obin]

these shots are so much sharper than anything i have seen shot on hvx with any adapter. not to say that this is a better look but for me, i would rather start out like this and soften in post if needed than be stuck with a softer image all the time. i shot on the hdx900 recently which also has 2/3" chips and i was amazed at the difference in required light. it was like being back on a dvx with no adapter. nowadays i shoot mostly with the hvx/redrock and sometimes the amount of light we need to use is just plain rediculous.

obin, don't let the naysayers get you down. the shots look like money. there are a few people lurking around here that just lke to flame everything. you know what they say about opinions....


Thanks man. Looks like we will be using the HPX again soon for a new spot. it's gonna be darker and more dramatic. should be lots of fun.

for the money outside the RED I would rate the HPX the best camera I have ever used professionally.

[obin]

BTW Barry we are getting a 120kw film generator if you ever need one - or know people that do....it's an insane amount of power for any production let alone a small one. I am told this monster can run and entire full sized film set.

[aalleexx]

hey obin whats the rental rate on average for the hpx right now?

[Barry_Green]

120,000 watts?

Sheesh. That's insane! :)

[danny d]

Yeah Obin post some footage. Thats a good camera.

[obin]

TIME! I am still cutting and directing VO sessions!

I will post when I can :)

[obin]

Yep, 120,000 watts! how 'bout that for a badass power supply? I don't think I will ever use it all up...well that is what I said about my first 4x8 production trailer 4 years ago ....:)

[TimurCivan]

thats it.... im coming down there.... i smell ArriSUN..... For EVERY SHOT.

[obin]

No shit right? LOL :) gonna be fun shooting with that bitch. Now about the HMI lights I need.....

got an extra 200,000 I can borrow for some HMI lights...someone needs to make some big ass HMI lights for less then 20k each!

[obin]

Check it out!

http://www.dv3productions.com/HTC_DOC_MASTER_CUT.mov

[obin]

I just yanked the file. looks like fuck on my laptop thanks to quicktime encode. WHAT CAN WE ALL DO ABOUT THIS SHIT? all colors are milky and whites are grey when I play it back on my laptop...wtf??

Laptop is a top of the line DELL with a 1920x1200 screen and a good ATI graphics card

[William_Robinette]

Did you encode on a Mac? There are some gamma problems with Mac encoded QT's on a PC.

Conversely, I have no problems with PC QT encoding playing back on a Mac...

[obin]

fixed it and it's back up. had to export an uncompressed avi file from Adobe Premiere and then use quicktime to do a standalone encode.

Can someone tell me why I must do this for a decent looking h264 master?

[William_Robinette]

Slick.

But what did you guys have on the boom? :thumbsup:

[obin]

good catch, have not done mic cleanup yet :)

[cardmaverick]

120,000 watts... just enough for a *few* soft sun units.....

[TimurCivan]

thoes lights id rent.... i cant fathom buying 12k's.... thats just self indulgent.... ;)

[J.R. Hudson]

That was a nice spot; great looking image and great lighting.

[obin]

Dissonace has some really good emotional moments and good lighting/color time
shot how? xlh1? adapter?

[Noel Evans]

obin sweet spot man. Loved the lighting.

[J.R. Hudson]

Dissonace has some really good emotional moments and good lighting/color time
shot how? xlh1? adapter?

Thanks Obin. :dankk2:

DVX100 w/ the first Letus. (Mysteriously went into 60i randomly at times; which is evident from the imagery).

I've been junkying on the oversaturation as everyone else seems to prefer the bleachy look.

(Threadjack over) :grin:

[obin]

obin sweet spot man. Loved the lighting.

Thanks bro. had fun Directing it. stand by I will show you guys the other one when I get it cut today.

[hunter richards]

great look and nice talent! What was the detail and gamma set to on the hpx?

[obin]

It was CineGamma and 0 detail

[Luis Caffesse]

Obin - as always - top notch, solid and professional work.
Great look - not flat, just enough dimension to the lighting - spots like this always have a danger of looking 'flat.' I really like what you did with that back room, letting it go dark and seeing the exterior through the blinds. I think you found a nice balance between the light/shadow without making it too dramatic. Also, nice subtle camera move keeping it active the whole time (in what could have been a much more 'dead' commercial). Not to mention - funny concept.

The camera and adapter may be great - and while I appreciate you giving it its due - I've seen what you were able to do with lesser cameras and gear long ago.

Nice to see you working with gear that's more at your level.
:thumbsup:

Keep em comin!

[Kyle Stebbins]

Looks great! I LOVE the first two grabs!!!

Here is my take on the color correction, which I realize you have yet to apply:

http://www.stebbinsdigital.com/correctedHPX.jpg

The more I look at this, the more I notice the grain that was the result of my edit. While I don't think it looks awful or will be particularly detrimental to the overall product, I still think more could have been done in camera to avoid this. Perhaps other users here have tips for reducing the grain in post after you apply the heavy color correction. =)

Also, I love the twich in your actor's eye. Brilliant!

[Kyle Stebbins]

This camera is so much more "professional" then the hvx it's not even funny.

Well, it's also $4000 more. What did you expect?

[obin]

Thanks for the comments bro. Ya everyone thinks "funny = flat" I don't know if I agree with that so I felt a touch of contrast and depth control with gradients would help the spot look good, without going over the top.

I like that actor. He is one of the better actors I have worked with.

QUOTE=Luis Caffesse;1131876]Obin - as always - top notch, solid and professional work.
Great look - not flat, just enough dimension to the lighting - spots like this always have a danger of looking 'flat.' I really like what you did with that back room, letting it go dark and seeing the exterior through the blinds. I think you found a nice balance between the light/shadow without making it too dramatic. Also, nice subtle camera move keeping it active the whole time (in what could have been a much more 'dead' commercial). Not to mention - funny concept.

The camera and adapter may be great - and while I appreciate you giving it its due - I've seen what you were able to do with lesser cameras and gear long ago.

Nice to see you working with gear that's more at your level.
:thumbsup:

Keep em comin![/QUOTE]

[obin]

Guys check the HD download it's color corrected. the grabs are pre anything flat cinegama from the hpx500

[Erik Olson]

Can I keep my existing phone number when I switch?

e

[obin]

LOL good stuff

[Kyle Stebbins]

Thanks for the comments bro. Ya everyone thinks "funny = flat"

man I just don't see the logic behind that...

[obin]

I think it's based on "The performace and script pulls the film" not the camera work or color style

Or it could be that someone did it, and everyone copies it!

maybe it's just the same DP shoots all the big budget Hollywood comedy films.

;)

will have 2 more spots to show today

[obin]

Here you go:
http://www.dv3productions.com/ASTRONAUT.mov

[obin]

guys how can you take an echo from the room out of a live recording?

[Barry_Green]

You can't.

[obin]

;( :(

[mcgeedigital]

guys how can you take an echo from the room out of a live recording?

ADR is your only option at this point.

[obin]

3rd Spot:
http://www.dv3productions.com/FIRST_TIME_2.mov

[BlueWorld]

BTW 10x better from a tech point of view is not possible, the pro35 is far far better then any redrock/letus/brevis/whatever that is out for the hvx due to 2 reasons:

1 Your not dealing with a cheap internal lens setup on the camera
2 The pro35 units optics are far far higher resolution then any of the low end adapters.

THis is NOT saying they are shi* and the pro35 is great but at this point I would not use any of them on a paying gig. They don't meet the quality standards I set for my images.

Although I love the camera work on these spots, and think they look great, I can't agree that the pro35 is better at all, much less 'far far' better, than the Letus Extreme. I've seen footage from Phil Bloom and Steven Dempsey that's every bit as good or better than this. Steven's shoot of his daughter in the living room with controlled lighting I think looks better than these particular shots, and that's shooting through the A1's stock zoom lens with HDV compression.

Once the LE relay lens is available for 2/3" cameras, you're going to see some truly amazing footage from the LE. I'm betting the HPX3000/LE footage is going to be spectacular.

[Noel Evans]

OBIN that last link is doing some funny stuff.

I tried to have a look at that echo for you. There were a few techniques that made it mildly less noticeable, like adding a high pass filter just to take the edge off. But the echo is still well and truly there.

[obin]

I don't know anything about the Letus Ex. I have a Redrock only. Can't compare. sorry

[Zander]

+++++++++++++++++++++

UPDATE!

OK HERE IS THE SPOT:
www.dv3productions.com/HTC_DOC_MASTER_CUT.mov

DIRECTORS: The Olson Brothers
DP: Obin Olson
GAFFER: Amariah Olson
EDITOR: Obin Olson
COLOR TIME: Obin Olson
FX: Amariah Olson

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

2nd Spot:

http://www.dv3productions.com/ASTRONAUT.mov

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

3rd Spot:
http://www.dv3productions.com/FIRST_TIME_2.mov
Those ads were awesome.

[obin]

Thanks guys, man this thread has lots of action...:)

[Patryk_Rebisz]

i think the original flame war was caused by lack of understanding between still images/grading possibilities/lighting for humor. THe actuall spots look spectacular while the stills just look so-so.

And yes, i agree with Obin that the PS Technic adapter is the shi-t! and all others simply don't compare when u are dealing with paying client.

[obin]

btw the hpx is not pixel perfect he not even in 720p mode...wish it was.....downscale some Red and you will see what I mean.

[Kholi]

Although I love the camera work on these spots, and think they look great, I can't agree that the pro35 is better at all, much less 'far far' better, than the Letus Extreme. I've seen footage from Phil Bloom and Steven Dempsey that's every bit as good or better than this. Steven's shoot of his daughter in the living room with controlled lighting I think looks better than these particular shots, and that's shooting through the A1's stock zoom lens with HDV compression.

Once the LE relay lens is available for 2/3" cameras, you're going to see some truly amazing footage from the LE. I'm betting the HPX3000/LE footage is going to be spectacular.

Pro35 is a nice adapter, can't say that I've used one but from the looks and specs it looks okay. The footage I've seen from the HPX500 + Letus EX + Relay is what made me even consider an HPX500 in the first place. The stuff is incredible. I think BlueWorld has a good point, but reserve final thoughts until Pro35 vs Letus EX shows up; my money's on the Lex.

Doesn't seem like the Pro35 offers anything more beneficial over the Letus EX aside from a higher Credit Card bill at the end of the month.


Obin, on the spots, I think the guy's actually delivering pretty well, but the flatness of the image is a turn off o'er here. Not like I know much, but the flat image makes me feel strange.

[obin]

Keep feelin strange, we have a new one in the pipe that is "dramatic" in shooting style... :)

Hey why on earth would I buy a Letus just to place a f'ing adapter on the end of a HUGE zoom ENG lens and then place some 35mm glass on the end?? WTF...I will stick with the redrock on a HVX over that MONSTER! now on the other hand if Letus would build an adapter like the Pro35 BYPASSING the ZOOM on the camera like a TRUE RELAY that would be nice....

[Luis Caffesse]

...on the other hand if Letus would build an adapter like the Pro35 BYPASSING the ZOOM on the camera like a TRUE RELAY that would be nice....

That's exactly what Kholi is referring to.

Check it out:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=117218

[TimurCivan]

they already built it... and from what ive heard.... its STELLAR.

[Kholi]

Yeah, that's EXACTLY what I'm referring to. The Le brothers have already developed one serious relay and expect it to drop and further destroy the P+S market any day now.




Keep feelin strange, we have a new one in the pipe that is "dramatic" in shooting style... :)

Hey why on earth would I buy a Letus just to place a f'ing adapter on the end of a HUGE zoom ENG lens and then place some 35mm glass on the end?? WTF...I will stick with the redrock on a HVX over that MONSTER! now on the other hand if Letus would build an adapter like the Pro35 BYPASSING the ZOOM on the camera like a TRUE RELAY that would be nice....

=\ Research, people. It's all laid out online right in front of us on the infonet.

[obin]

Wow that would be HOT. the market could use a lower priced unit!

[Noel Evans]

any day now



Are we there yet?

[Kholi]

Are we there yet?

LOL Noel. Soon enough! Good things come to those who wait. I do not know an official date, just that they're finishing up and should be releasing info soon.

[hunter richards]

Its coming soon!

[obin]

still waiting....

[hunter richards]

me too... call letus and tell them to hurry up!

[johann]

This is on the verge of getting ugly. But really, the 500 should sink the hvx, what? Why would anyone doubt it? Why put it out if it didn't? My rant is this:
I'm a lucky SOB that can choose between these two masterpieces, and I of course would love to see a new hvx model magically appear now, but this is what we've got. What's the best for run and gun docs? I'm hip, and ready to score! (This also reminds me of that long ago test where Kiefer Sutherland said he didn't feel he could give his all in front of a mini camera like the hvx.)
Lick that! You give your all no matter what, hey Ms. Schreiber!? (DVX go!)

[johann]

Sorry, I only read the first page of this thread and posted a reply, zapping to page ten after my post. I am but a grasshopper, waiting for knowledge. Please be patient with the newbie!

[Robbie Comeau]

You can see the boom in the first video of the first 3 seconds lol.